Question Keeps Me Up At Night: Fight or Surrender?

[athenasius]

This question keeps going back and forth in my mind. When "they" come for us, do we fight for our lives, our kids, our property (Jesus told the disciples to buy a sword (Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one" Luke 22:36.) Why did Jesus want us to have an actual sword? OR do we just meekly get on the cattle cars to the fema camps/ovens like lambs to the slaughter? Ever since the Holocaust, I just don't think I could do that. Your thoughts, please?

Neither.

Pray, be in the Word of God and be aware of how God is leading you in your circumstances. I think it was in the prepping thread, one of our members felt a pull to put stuff aside, she obeyed, and it was a great help recently with the Texas snowstorm. She did well. She obeyed the leading of the Holy Spirit.

I think far too many people are framing things in either or scenarios and getting anxious. We are NOT to worry about the future, God is the one who holds that in HIS capable hands. We are to occupy till He comes, get busy and evangelize those we can. We are to be sensibly prepared for whatever is likely, but we are NOT to borrow trouble from the future.

The problem with grabbing a rifle and starting 1776 the 3.0 version (if the Civil war was your 2.0 version) is that the people you could be shooting at to "retake" your country are the very mission field you need to be sharing the gospel with.

I'm not suggesting you shouldn't aim straight and take out someone trying to kill you or your family or seriously wound someone trying to violently rob you. Go for the gusto and don't miss your target in that case. But is this really the time to launch a revolution or are you being played by a government only too happy to have "those Christians" act violently so that they can crack down on all Christians?

And what's with the fears of Fema camps and ovens? And Cattle cars? I hear that brought up a lot on RF and it's an awfully extreme Alex Jones scenario. Yes the Tribulation will have that and worse. But I have yet to read in the Bible about Fema camps. It's an American concern. I've never fully understood what the fixation is on Fema camps. I don't mean you in particular, but I hear it a lot. And it's always in the context of globalists taking over. They will, we can't stop that when the time is right but till that time, God restrains them, and even after that time HE is always in control.

I get that WW2 concentration camps happened, and perhaps will happen again in the Tribulation but I think the fear is being overblown.

Even in those camps, evil and deadly as they were, Christians ended up there like Corrie Ten Boom or the Voice of the Martyrs guy (brain fog moment here) and they were used by God to reach others around them for Christ.

Paul spent much of his ministry in and out of prison and remained calm, rejoicing and giving thanks to God in all circumstances.

Jesus said this in Matthew 6:

25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?

27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:

29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek: ) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

 

[Lynn]

Neither.

Pray, be in the Word of God and be aware of how God is leading you in your circumstances. I think it was in the prepping thread, one of our members felt a pull to put stuff aside, she obeyed, and it was a great help recently with the Texas snowstorm. She did well. She obeyed the leading of the Holy Spirit.

I think far too many people are framing things in either or scenarios and getting anxious. We are NOT to worry about the future, God is the one who holds that in HIS capable hands. We are to occupy till He comes, get busy and evangelize those we can. We are to be sensibly prepared for whatever is likely, but we are NOT to borrow trouble from the future.

The problem with grabbing a rifle and starting 1776 the 3.0 version (if the Civil war was your 2.0 version) is that the people you could be shooting at to "retake" your country are the very mission field you need to be sharing the gospel with.

I'm not suggesting you shouldn't aim straight and take out someone trying to kill you or your family or seriously wound someone trying to violently rob you. Go for the gusto and don't miss your target in that case. But is this really the time to launch a revolution or are you being played by a government only too happy to have "those Christians" act violently so that they can crack down on all Christians?

And what's with the fears of Fema camps and ovens? And Cattle cars? I hear that brought up a lot on RF and it's an awfully extreme Alex Jones scenario. Yes the Tribulation will have that and worse. But I have yet to read in the Bible about Fema camps. It's an American concern. I've never fully understood what the fixation is on Fema camps. I don't mean you in particular, but I hear it a lot. And it's always in the context of globalists taking over. They will, we can't stop that when the time is right but till that time, God restrains them, and even after that time HE is always in control.

I get that WW2 concentration camps happened, and perhaps will happen again in the Tribulation but I think the fear is being overblown.

Even in those camps, evil and deadly as they were, Christians ended up there like Corrie Ten Boom or the Voice of the Martyrs guy (brain fog moment here) and they were used by God to reach others around them for Christ.

Paul spent much of his ministry in and out of prison and remained calm, rejoicing and giving thanks to God in all circumstances.

Jesus said this in Matthew 6:

25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?

27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:

29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

Finally. . .a genuine, biblical response to this world's situation. So grateful to read this! @athenasius

 

[jayhawkbasketball]

I’ll fight, but only if I feel like I have no other choice. Mask mandates aren’t something worth fighting over. Detention camps on the other hand...yeah, that’s different.

The bigger issue is navigating the 857 steps between a mask mandate and them knocking on your door to take you away. At what point do you plant your flag and stand your ground? When others do? When it comes to your door?

I pray it never comes to that because I don’t think many people are truly prepared for what that would look like. It would be a thousand times worse than we can possibly imagine.

I’m not that smart, but I’m smart enough to know I want no part of that if it can be avoided. I think any person on here who’s seen combat would back me up on that.

I really hope we’re outta here before decisions like that have to be made.

Thera also many ways to “fight”. Hiding people, prayer, sewing buttons, handing out books, medical, water, shelter, etc.

 

[NewWine2020]

As Americans we are not subjects like those in Rome were or any other nation in history. We are the rulers and sovereigns over the government not the other way around. We have the obligation as the guardians to see our nation follows the constitution. We not only have the right but the duty to overthrow those who seek to destroy our nation as granted in the declaration of independence. Please read our founding documents and what the founders wrote to see what our rights and responsibilities are as American citizens.

n/a

 

[Hidden]

1 Thess. 4:17 says that we who are alive and "remain" will be caught up together with the deceased believers in the clouds.

I looked up the original Greek of the word remain and it appears one of its meaning is "survive". So it seems another way of reading the verse is, We who are alive and "survive". Does that mean there will be some persecution in store for us? Bizarre thought and I'm sorry I didn't mean to scaremonger. lol

 

[DWB]

As Americans we are not subjects like those in Rome were or any other nation in history. We are the rulers and sovereigns over the government not the other way around. We have the obligation as the guardians to see our nation follows the constitution. We not only have the right but the duty to overthrow those who seek to destroy our nation as granted in the declaration of independence. Please read our founding documents and what the founders wrote to see what our rights and responsibilities are as American citizens.

I think those days are gone. The voters wanted to be ruled by dems.

 

[DWB]

My mind says fight, but more likely I will go quietly like the Lord Jesus.

 

[Andy C]

And what's with the fears of Fema camps and ovens? And Cattle cars? I hear that brought up a lot on RF and it's an awfully extreme Alex Jones scenario. Yes the Tribulation will have that and worse. But I have yet to read in the Bible about Fema camps. It's an American concern. I've never fully understood what the fixation is on Fema camps. I don't mean you in particular, but I hear it a lot. And it's always in the context of globalists taking over. They will, we can't stop that when the time is right but till that time, God restrains them, and even after that time HE is always in control.

So many believe whatever Alex Jones or the equivalent write.

Good post sister!

 

[alisani]

Finally. . .a genuine, biblical response to this world's situation. So grateful to read this! @athenasius

I thought you fired the guy on the end!?

 

[Lynn]

I thought you fired the guy on the end!?

Yeah, I did. Guess we need a new emoji with an empty seat on the far right Wonder how we might do that. H-m-m

 

[jerichoo777]

I think those days are gone. The voters wanted to be ruled by dems.

The election was stolen plain and simple. The majority is still with real America.

 

[jayhawkbasketball]

1 Thess. 4:17 says that we who are alive and "remain" will be caught up together with the deceased believers in the clouds.

I looked up the original Greek of the word remain and it appears one of its meaning is "survive". So it seems another way of reading the verse is, We who are alive and "survive". Does that mean there will be some persecution in store for us? Bizarre thought and I'm sorry I didn't mean to scaremonger. lol

Interesting. I wonder what others here think about this?

 

[JStar]

I am 62 years old and a Veteran. I also am treated from the VA. Without medication my life will not last unless the Lord intervenes. So when I look at it from a spiritual point a view, God is in control of my life. When that time comes the Lord will either give me a path to live or this body (flesh) will go back to the ground but the soul my liveth forever.
Fear comes from satan. The Lord gives me peace at mind and internal hope. Praise God most high....Amen and Amen.

 

[PortWen]

1 Thess. 4:17 says that we who are alive and "remain" will be caught up together with the deceased believers in the clouds.

I looked up the original Greek of the word remain and it appears one of its meaning is "survive". So it seems another way of reading the verse is, We who are alive and "survive". Does that mean there will be some persecution in store for us? Bizarre thought and I'm sorry I didn't mean to scaremonger. lol

The word “survive” doesn’t necessarily mean to “endure through an affliction”. It is also commonly used in the sense of “to continue existing”. Eg. When some one dies....”she was survived by her husband and 3 children”... or ”he has no surviving relatives”.

Fom Stong’s Concordance, the word is perileipo and is made up from 2 words, peri and leipo

4012 ‭περί‭ peri ‭per–ee’‭

‭‭‭ about, concerning, on account of, because of, around, near

3007 ‭λείπω‭ leipo ‭li’–po‭
‭
‭‭1) to leave, leave behind, forsake, to be left behind‭
‭‭ 1a) to lag, be inferior‭
‭‭ 1b) to be destitute of, to lack‭
‭‭2) to be wanting, to fail‭

In the context of the verse, the sense of being about “leaving behind” (remaining or surviving) makes the most sense.

Vines Greek dictionary says this:

perileipo "to leave over," is used in the Passive Voice in 1 Thess 4:15,17, RV, "that are left" (AV, "that remain"), lit., "left over," i.e., the living believers at the Lord's return. See REMAIN.

concerning the word “leipo” used in other words, it has a similar sense of “remaining”

See also : kataleipo apoleipo "to leave behind" (apo, "from") is used
(a) in the Active Voice, of "leaving" behind a cloak, 2 Tim 4:13; a person, 2 Tim 4:20; of "abandoning" a principality (by angels), Jude 1:6, RV;
(b) in the Passive Voice, "to be reserved, to remain," Heb 4:6,9; Heb 10:26. See apoleipo under REMAIN. In the papyri it is used as a technical term in wills (Moulton and Milligan, Vocab.).

See also : apoleipo enkataleipo lit., "to leave behind in" (en, "in," and kataleipo), signifies
(a) "to leave behind," Rom 9:29, "a seed;"
(b) "to abandon, forsake," translated by the verb "to leave" in Acts 2:27,31 (in some mss., kataleipo) of the soul of Christ; in the following by the verb "to forsake," Matt 27:46; Mark 15:34; 2 Cor 4:9; 2 Tim 4:10,16; Heb 10:25; Heb 13:5 (see aniemi in the same Heb 13:See FORSAKE.

‭I also looked up the verse on Biblehub and, all the parallel translations, about 44 or so, and all of them render the meaning as to continue existing, (as opposed to enduring affliction).

https://biblehub.com/parallel/1_thessalonians/4-17.htm

Having said all that, I do think that we Believers will see some persecution, in varying degrees of intensity, maybe even to the death in some places, before the Lord comes.

 

[Katie8758]

I would go without a fight, and trust the Lord to fight/defend me on my behalf if it is His will.

Romans 13:1 -

Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

 

[newtofaith]

The worst thing about camps would be that we'd be isolated I imagine due to covid restrictions. If you look at the isolation units in China they are separate boxes without windows. It looks a million times worse than prison because there is no interaction unless with a heavily masked, hazmat suited guard.
I think a lot of people would lose their minds

 

[amystery]

So many believe whatever Alex Jones or the equivalent write.

Good post sister!

Call me naive, but I just don’t think this stuff is going to happen here in our lifetimes. I think there’s a 100% chance that a civil war would happen first before we get carted away to camps. I guess they’d have to kill me though, before I go to a camp.

 

[NewWine2020]

The worst thing about camps would be that we'd be isolated I imagine due to covid restrictions. If you look at the isolation units in China they are separate boxes without windows. It looks a million times worse than prison because there is no interaction unless with a heavily masked, hazmat suited guard.
I think a lot of people would lose their minds

I think by the time it gets to that, they would care less if prisoners in the concentration/forced labor camp infected each other with Covid (or any other disease); it would make the job of disposing of people who were technically marked for death anyway even simpler.

But I do understand your point and fear of potential isolation. It has been proven in studies that even hardened criminals prison suffer greatly when put in isolation; it literally can drive people insane & is used a form of torture by despotic regimes for that specific reason.

 

[Patreesha]

I appreciate all your responses. First, I wasn't talking about a civil war but I've been reading about China and/or Russia invading, like Red Dawn. OR, the Democrats could go door-to-door and take guns and/or children. I wouldn't mind so much if it was just me, although I'd never survive a day in a detention camp, but I could not let them take/hurt/kill my children or grandchildren. Praying hard - practically every minute -- begging the Father, to please send Jesus to get us this year - before anything like I say would take place. And, of course, I'll trust Him at the time.

 

[Everlasting Life]

Remember, the Lord loves your children and grandchildren just as much as and more than you. He has His plans for them just as He's had for you. What's hard sometimes is realizing that His perfect plan may be very different than His for you and different than what you may desire. But, we can trust that God's plan is always for all of our very good and sourced out of His love.

It's hard to see what's happening. But don't be afraid.

God is always faithful and in each more difficult circumstance we get to see even more His faithfulness to us as we trust Him. Oftentimes when we see no absolutely good path, God already has a path ready, whether He takes us through or from, to emerge at the right time. And then when He responds to our prayers of help we and others can give Him glory and honor