Question Keeps Me Up At Night: Fight or Surrender?

Patreesha

Active Member
This question keeps going back and forth in my mind. When "they" come for us, do we fight for our lives, our kids, our property (Jesus told the disciples to buy a sword (Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one" Luke 22:36.) Why did Jesus want us to have an actual sword? OR do we just meekly get on the cattle cars to the fema camps/ovens like lambs to the slaughter? Ever since the Holocaust, I just don't think I could do that. Your thoughts, please?
 

Tall Timbers

Imperfect but forgiven
I think that's a valid question and perhaps one we each have to answer for ourselves. For me it's easier than for many because I'm old, I'm handicapped, my body is wore out... so there's not much I could do to protect my family anyway. I'll most likely hold my wrists together so they can bind them and then lead me to whatever camp they decide to put me in after they've confiscated all of my property anyway after I refuse to give it to them willingly and then live by their rules.

Medicine the VA gives me helps keep me alive so without that I wouldn't last overly long in a camp. I would enjoy sharing Jesus with other camp residents while also endeavoring to spread good cheer and hope while under dismal circumstances.

I am sorry that I wouldn't be able to protect my family. I could try but the defense would probably last no more than a few seconds. My family wouldn't be in any less danger if I took that route.

If I were younger I think I would think differently, quite a bit differently.

My last thought is it is best if we keep our eyes on Jesus, our Savior. He will never leave us nor forsake us and we've been given the Holy Spirit who will assist us with His presence. No matter what we might face, let us live each day one day at a time, prepare for each tomorrow the best we can, and lay our concerns at the feet of Jesus.
 

pattycass1974

Well-Known Member
Mark 13:11 “And when they arrest you and hand you over, do not worry beforehand about what you are to say, but say whatever is given you at that time; for you are not the ones speaking, but it is the Holy Spirit."

My belief is that the Holy Spirit will direct us both on what to do and what to say. Don’t lose sleep. The creator of Heaven and Earth has got this.
 

NewWine2020

Well-Known Member
This question keeps going back and forth in my mind. When "they" come for us, do we fight for our lives, our kids, our property (Jesus told the disciples to buy a sword (Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one" Luke 22:36.) Why did Jesus want us to have an actual sword? OR do we just meekly get on the cattle cars to the fema camps/ovens like lambs to the slaughter? Ever since the Holocaust, I just don't think I could do that. Your thoughts, please?

That’s a really tough question. I like TT’s answer about how it’s a decision we, each of us will have to make, as we follow the discernment of the Holy Spirit. The red blooded American in me is partial to the idea of replicating x10 how the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto stood up and made the nazi’s pay in blood for each bit of real estate and person in the city that they came for.

Will this happen? who knows. Only God and I trust him to tell us what to do when we need his guidance.
 

cavalier973

Well-Known Member
The short answer, in my opinion, is, "whatever is not of faith is sin." (Romans 14:23b)
Luke 21 is a good chapter to reference, also.

The Lord Jesus is our shepherd, and He will not be flippant about our situation with regard to safety. If He marks us to die for Him, then He will give us the courage and fortitude to endure joyfully.

Moving to philosophical musings: I am not familiar with the laws of other nations, but in the U.S., the Constitution gives citizens the right to bear arms, and that isn't just for hunting. Since it is legal to bear arms for self-defense, I would say that Romans 13 allows for lethal force to be used by an American against an intruder who may have violent intent.

Christians, in the same chapter, are not given the option to engage in violent insurrection against the government. The question is, what is the legitimate government? The Constitution declares itself to be the "supreme law of the land". Practically speaking, the Federal Government is the supreme law of the land, and it often overrides the Constitutional limits set for it.

If an American Christian obeys a Federal law that violates the Constitution, is he in compliance with Romans 13? Or, vise versa?

Not really an answer, I know. My position leans toward accepting being arrested, because I believe that everything gets resolved at God's throne, and that He will have an exacting and eternal vengeance against those who abuse His children, and our suffering will make perfect sense at that time, as the evil people who abuse us in this life are at that future time grovelling at our feet, moaning piteously in shame and terror.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
I think that's a valid question and perhaps one we each have to answer for ourselves. For me it's easier than for many because I'm old, I'm handicapped, my body is wore out... so there's not much I could do to protect my family anyway. I'll most likely hold my wrists together so they can bind them and then lead me to whatever camp they decide to put me in after they've confiscated all of my property anyway after I refuse to give it to them willingly and then live by their rules.

Medicine the VA gives me helps keep me alive so without that I wouldn't last overly long in a camp. I would enjoy sharing Jesus with other camp residents while also endeavoring to spread good cheer and hope while under dismal circumstances.

I am sorry that I wouldn't be able to protect my family. I could try but the defense would probably last no more than a few seconds. My family wouldn't be in any less danger if I took that route.

If I were younger I think I would think differently, quite a bit differently.

My last thought is it is best if we keep our eyes on Jesus, our Savior. He will never leave us nor forsake us and we've been given the Holy Spirit who will assist us with His presence. No matter what we might face, let us live each day one day at a time, prepare for each tomorrow the best we can, and lay our concerns at the feet of Jesus.
Excellent response brother.
 

kathymendel

Well-Known Member
Jesus didn't come here to call His people to overthrow the Romans..............altho, that is what many Jews were hoping for.
They believed their messiah would bring them out from under the grievious laws of them.
I don't believe He has called us to try to overthrow the evil governments of today either.
He called us to follow Him and share the gospel. . . . (period).
As society continues down the wide path and more and more refuse to hear, and fewer and fewer are being saved, as we near
that ultimate person who will be the last one.......... the church age will slowly end. I think we are seeing that happening now.
Which means we are soon going home.

Everything else here will be handled by our Lord during the trib.

So, share the gospel with whomever God brings to you to hear..........
Love your brothers and sisters in Christ, and pray for them and support them with caring hearts.
And, LOOK UP! For our salvation draws nigh..........
That is ALL He has called us to do.
 

MyhopeisinHim

Well-Known Member
The short answer, in my opinion, is, "whatever is not of faith is sin." (Romans 14:23b)
Luke 21 is a good chapter to reference, also.

The Lord Jesus is our shepherd, and He will not be flippant about our situation with regard to safety. If He marks us to die for Him, then He will give us the courage and fortitude to endure joyfully.

Moving to philosophical musings: I am not familiar with the laws of other nations, but in the U.S., the Constitution gives citizens the right to bear arms, and that isn't just for hunting. Since it is legal to bear arms for self-defense, I would say that Romans 13 allows for lethal force to be used by an American against an intruder who may have violent intent.

Christians, in the same chapter, are not given the option to engage in violent insurrection against the government. The question is, what is the legitimate government? The Constitution declares itself to be the "supreme law of the land". Practically speaking, the Federal Government is the supreme law of the land, and it often overrides the Constitutional limits set for it.

If an American Christian obeys a Federal law that violates the Constitution, is he in compliance with Romans 13? Or, vise versa?

Not really an answer, I know. My position leans toward accepting being arrested, because I believe that everything gets resolved at God's throne, and that He will have an exacting and eternal vengeance against those who abuse His children, and our suffering will make perfect sense at that time, as the evil people who abuse us in this life are at that future time grovelling at our feet, moaning piteously in shame and terror.
Agreed, we might have a moment of terrifying fear but then total peace. I had a dream several years ago like that. I was in a literal thunder, tornado storm. I found shelter and was scared beyond belief! As the storm lifted the shelter off the ground God gave me inexplicable peace then I woke up in total calm. I will never forget it! I know it was from Him. A moment of complete and total fear to a moment of total calm and peace. All the fear I went through could not match the undescribable peace He gave me. That is how I believe it will be.
 

jerichoo777

Well-Known Member
As Americans we are not subjects like those in Rome were or any other nation in history. We are the rulers and sovereigns over the government not the other way around. We have the obligation as the guardians to see our nation follows the constitution. We not only have the right but the duty to overthrow those who seek to destroy our nation as granted in the declaration of independence. Please read our founding documents and what the founders wrote to see what our rights and responsibilities are as American citizens.
 

cavalier973

Well-Known Member
As Americans we are not subjects like those in Rome were or any other nation in history. We are the rulers and sovereigns over the government not the other way around. We have the obligation as the guardians to see our nation follows the constitution. We not only have the right but the duty to overthrow those who seek to destroy our nation as granted in the declaration of independence. Please read our founding documents and what the founders wrote to see what our rights and responsibilities are as American citizens.
It is a question whether the letter of the Law should be obeyed, or the dictates of functional lawmakers/enforcers. Whoever can commit violence without repercussion is functionally the law, regardless of what is written on a piece of paper. The people can try to pull a 1776 on the functional government, but should realize that we may have been infiltrated by the agents of the functional government in different areas of our life. I think that the surveillance state is much more widespread and invested in our communities. I believe they are listening to us through our phones and other electronic devices. They already are monitoring our financial transactions. A lot of what we would consider boring, mundane info can be good intelligence to someone who seeks to control you through clandestine means. "This person prefers Pepsi to Coke, or eats at Chick Fil-A every Wednesday, or goes to Rapture Forums two or three times a day. Let's have a couple of agents sign up on Rapture Forums; one to lurk and record, the other to try to gain people's trust for future possibilities."

Look at the "riot" in the Capitol Building on January 6. There are reports that members of Antifa incited Trump supporters to break in and do damage. I don't know if that is true, but it is believable. I would be extremely wary of anyone--either online, or in person--who wants to spark a Second American Revolution. He or she may be a Deep State provocateur trying to get you arrested and imprisoned.

So, considering all that, my recommendation is to pray long and hard about the situation we are in, that God will have us in the place He wants us, with the proper mental and spiritual preparation, so that when it comes to fighting or submitting, we will have the wisdom to choose the right response.

Jesus had the disciples carry swords, but He reminded Pilate that they did not fight, because His kingdom is not of this world.
 

cavalier973

Well-Known Member
I am speculating, here, but Jesus's intent was for the disciples to not get captured. The swords were a practical necessity for extricating themselves, if they were surrounded, not for starting Armageddon. He told the arresting officers to allow His followers to go free.

In the same way, I think that those Christians who possibly may be arrested and persecuted are chosen by God to fill that special role, and are specially prepared by Him to handle the situation.

Also, Acts 5:41
 

seated with Christ

Well-Known Member
As for me I don’t think on such things.


Philippians 4:6
“The Lord is Near! Do not be anxious about anything. Instead, in every situation with prayer and petition with thanksgiving, tell your requests to God. And the peace that surpasses all understanding will guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus.”
 

The Saint

Well-Known Member
Mark 13:11 “And when they arrest you and hand you over, do not worry beforehand about what you are to say, but say whatever is given you at that time; for you are not the ones speaking, but it is the Holy Spirit."

My belief is that the Holy Spirit will direct us both on what to do and what to say. Don’t lose sleep. The creator of Heaven and Earth has got this.
Bingo. Walk in the Holy Spirit. That is the best defense.
My normal default is to fight, there too much of a pioneer in me still. As the days get darker, we will rely more and more on the Spirit. In such a case, your decision will be easier to make.
 

jerichoo777

Well-Known Member
I agree overall with what what you are saying. My point is legally WE are still the government not subjects. Yes our country and world are out of control in lawlessness with no respect for the rule of law and true human rights. Where we are on the 2nd coming of Jesus timeline is a guess. I would suggest going to the Wall builders by David Barton website to see America's founding ideas with respect to the bible. We are talking about standing against a real evil in the world and doing nothing will only let it happen.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke
 

kathymendel

Well-Known Member
I don't think our current politicians see things the same way you do............... our rights and freedoms have been, and are
being taken away as we post on this forum. I'm not so invested in keeping my so-called rights, as I am in letting Jesus fulfill
all the prophecies to get us out of here so HE can take care of the evil governments, and set up HIS kingdom..........which will be
fair and just for everyone.
 

kathymendel

Well-Known Member
And, why is it so important that WE be in control of things????
We have never been in control of anything, we only think we have.
NO, I'd rather have God in control to do it and do it right the first time!!!
To keep His promises to the church and take us home forever...........
 

Footsteps

Well-Known Member
All good answers.

If the self destructive government now in charge succeeds in reducing America to Venezuela II, I don't think we'll see a victorious revolution that restores our former greatness. I also don't foresee multiple "last stands” at individual residences, with the menfolk breaking windows with their gun barrels to get clear shots at the advancing National Police.
Here’s where, IMO, you can find both the identity of our real enemies, followed by specific descriptions of our weaponry we should put on every morning in order to fight our daily battles: Ephesians Chapter Six. Paul was able to observe Roman soldiers and their uniforms in detail. The spiritual relevance of each item listed is not always obvious. “Feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace”? Paul saw nails or cleats on the soles of the soldiers’ shoes. On unknown ground the soil could be loose. The believer must be able to stand his ground when challenged, so he must keep his feet by knowing the Word. The shield of faith that “quenches Satan’s fiery darts”?Easier to understand if you know soldiers drenched their shields in water or oil that would quench those fires. The fluids represent dousing our faith in the WATER OF THE WORD so our faith will remain intact. The sword of the spirit which is the Word of God? I’ll take that any day over an AR15. I don’t even need to know swordsmanship - the Holy Spirit is the wielder of that blade so sharp it cuts between soul and spirit. I only have to SPEAK the applicable scripture. I have to know my words, and that’s why memorization of “battle scripture” is essential.
Win the fight you’re already in.
 
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