Question about Hebrews 10:24-26 and what a local pastor said about it ??

[Amethyst]

I have been visiting a smallish local church the last month or two (one of, if not the ONLY, that believes Pre-trib and MK future).
But the last couple of services I am wondering if he is not into Lordship salvation philosophy.

He was talking about how this church will not close its doors should the government tell Christians they are not allowed to come based on the virus etc.

And he said that people who think they are Christians but cower in fear of persecution and so don't come to church and neglect assembling together in corporate worship show that they really are likely not even born again because v. 26 :

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

Well there were a few years that I did not go to church because for a time I was ignorant about God saying we should and then I had bouts of high social anxiety. But I know during that time I was definitely born again.

Why would he say this??

 

[ByGod'sGrace]

Angie, I read that what the pastor said, and it was like a knife in my heart. That is NOT ok to say to a believer!! That is my first gut reaction. The second reaction is...what does Jesus say are the two greatest commandments? Love God and love your neighbor. Saying hurtful stuff like that is not showing God as loving and not loving your neighbor. This whole world is just swirling down the toilet, in my opinion. I cannot wait to see and experience the type of fellowship that God intended, that sin totally messes up on this world!!

Edited to add: I am super introverted and a highly sensitive person, so the loud music churches throw me through the roof with anxiety. I watch online when I can fast forward to the sermons. Being judged that I am NOT a born again believer because I don't attend church is.....from Satan.

 

[Goodboy]

I have been visiting a smallish local church the last month or two (one of, if not the ONLY, that believes Pre-trib and MK future).
But the last couple of services I am wondering if he is not into Lordship salvation philosophy.

He was talking about how this church will not close its doors should the government tell Christians they are not allowed to come based on the virus etc.

And he said that people who think they are Christians but cower in fear of persecution and so don't come to church and neglect assembling together in corporate worship show that they really are likely not even born again because v. 26 :

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

Well there were a few years that I did not go to church because for a time I was ignorant about God saying we should and then I had bouts of high social anxiety. But I know during that time I was definitely born again.

Why would he say this??

Salvation is a totally free gift, not based on anything you do or don't do other than believing and accepting Jesus Christ as Savior.

Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Romans 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

In Hebrews 10:26 where it says "Sin willfully" it is speaking of rejecting Jesus and where it says "Receive the knowledge of the truth" it is speaking of the free gift of salvation through Jesus. So basically it is saying if someone rejects the truth (Jesus), there is no other sacrifice that can save them.

Hope that helps!

 

[Amethyst]

Thats how I felt about Hebrews I have never heard it used in such an odd context before!

 

[Goodboy]

Thats how I felt about Hebrews I have never heard it used in such an odd context before!

I don't think I would continue to fellowship at that church if I were you.

 

[Amethyst]

https://www.anchorbiblechurch.org/sermons

If either of you have the time will you click on the latest sermon and FF to around the 1 hour mark and listen to see if I am misinterpreting him wrong.

I get it if he is trying to say that if you "never desire to be with Christians" then maybe you arent born again. I can see that as being true. But I just still don't get putting the Hebrews in this context.

Will someone be my second set of ears?

 

[ByGod'sGrace]

https://www.anchorbiblechurch.org/sermons

If either of you have the time will you click on the latest sermon and FF to around the 1 hour mark and listen to see if I am misinterpreting him wrong.

I get it if he is trying to say that if you "never desire to be with Christians" then maybe you arent born again. I can see that as being true. But I just still don't get putting the Hebrews in this context.

Will someone be my second set of ears?

I'm listening now....

Honestly....I cannot believe a pastor would say this. Discouraging already lonely and disheartened believers and heaping judgment like this is the most horrible thing a person in leadership can do.

The beautiful thing is...our relationship with God is PERSONAL. He knows us intimately, and we get to know Him through prayer and reading His word. Fellowship is good if it is healthy; if it isn't and if it breaks you apart (my experience teaching at a "christian" school comes to mind), then it isn't a healthy place to be. We are to build each other up, in love!! This is why I come to this forum.

Just my two cents. I could be wrong, and I am open to correction, but I am soooo *angry sounds* at this type of discouragement from a pulpit.

 

[Goodboy]

https://www.anchorbiblechurch.org/sermons

If either of you have the time will you click on the latest sermon and FF to around the 1 hour mark and listen to see if I am misinterpreting him wrong.

I get it if he is trying to say that if you "never desire to be with Christians" then maybe you arent born again. I can see that as being true. But I just still don't get putting the Hebrews in this context.

Will someone be my second set of ears?

Is it the video from August 16th, 2020? If so, it must be before the 1 hour mark where he discusses what you have mentioned. because I did not hear it.

 

[Sojourner414]

I have been visiting a smallish local church the last month or two (one of, if not the ONLY, that believes Pre-trib and MK future).
But the last couple of services I am wondering if he is not into Lordship salvation philosophy.

He was talking about how this church will not close its doors should the government tell Christians they are not allowed to come based on the virus etc.

And he said that people who think they are Christians but cower in fear of persecution and so don't come to church and neglect assembling together in corporate worship show that they really are likely not even born again because v. 26 :

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

Well there were a few years that I did not go to church because for a time I was ignorant about God saying we should and then I had bouts of high social anxiety. But I know during that time I was definitely born again.

Why would he say this??

Because he's trying to scare people into coming to church no matter what happens. If I had to guess, the collection plate gets pretty lean when folks don't come in. I don't like "scare tactics" being used on folks, because those who love the Lord shouldn't be terrified that God's waiting to drop the boom on you.

Something to consider Angie: when Paul confronted Peter for not eating with the Gentiles, he never claimed Peter had never been saved:

" But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision. The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, “If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?" (Galatians 2:11-14, NASB, emphasis mine)

Peter was never removed from fellowship, but Paul did confront him (note: "condemned" here means "to blame" (Greek: kataginóskó [Strong's 2607]), not "bound for hell". Otherwise, Peter would not have stated later that Paul's letters were "Scripture".

I agree with the consensus here: Don't go back to that church.

 

[Amethyst]

Is it the video from August 16th, 2020? If so, it must be before the 1 hour mark where he discusses what you have mentioned. because I did not hear it.

It might be, I'm sorry. I was rushing. Maybe around the 50 minutes. He clearly talks persecution.

 

[Amethyst]

It might be, I'm sorry. I was rushing. Maybe around the 50 minutes. He clearly talks persecution.

It starts at the 45 minute mark.

https://www.anchorbiblechurch.org/sermons

 

[Goodboy]

Alrighty then!!! So this guy is basically saying that to get your free gift of salvation, you must earn it by going to church. OK, so that makes a lot of sense, not!!!!

I am going to make this as simple as I can. The bible basically tells us two separate things we should do.

The first which is the most simple and by far most important, is to get saved by admitting you are a sinner, believing in Jesus as Savior and confessing that with your mouth. (accepting his free gift).
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Notice throughout the bible there are three words that are primarily used when it comes to salvation which are as follows. Faith, Believe and Confess. No where in the bible that I am aware does if ever state some work we must do (going to church), in order to be saved.

The second thing the bible instructs us is regarding our walk, or time on earth after salvation. Our walk has nothing to do with salvation. Can you get saved and then live a life of sin? You sure can, won't be to happy though. Also Jesus and Paul make it quite clear that the most important thing a Christian can do is love people. Jesus even asks us to love our enemies! I don't know where it would fall, but going to church would not even make my top 10 list of important things for a Christian to do.

People like this guy are usually just jealous that God let's anyone into Heaven who accepts Jesus sacrifice as a free gift. They feel it is not fair that they work so hard to stop sinning and to serve God, yet other Christians who don't still go to Heaven. If I had the time and effort I could dispute via scripture most all of what this guy said.

Anyway, to make a long story short, I would run fast away from this guy!!!

 

[Amethyst]

Well, thank all of you for coming alongside and helping to check my discernment.

2 weeks ago he said something about counting the cost before you decide whether you're going to be a Christian or not. Well I always thought that was about growing in discipleship, not whether you could be saved or not. How does that work before you're saved, exactly? I mean He says "believe on Him who I have sent" and you shall be saved.
So this past Sunday when he said that it made me even more uneasy.

Well, back to the drawing board for me.

 

[ByGod'sGrace]

It is so incredibly heartbreaking how hard it is to find a good church....hugs!!!

 

[annieforjesus]

It really is hard to find a good church. I live in a very small town and found one that is Pretriib..and does not believe in replacement theology..was excited and set to join then when covid hit the church started doing all on FB live...after a few months of listening I don't know if I can...Sermons start out ok but soon go into personal stories about the pastors family..friends and past experiences.I take a deep breath and wait for him to get back to the message...he usually does for a short period....lately he's moved on to focusing about how we, as believers, need to treat each other with love. And I sure agree, but he's spending in unusual amount of time on it...I keep thinking, you can't browbeat people into showing Christian love to one another..can you..I do think the pastor has a loving heart, but I'm not getting messages that encourage me or teach me...maybe part of the problem is Me...am I just being arrogant because I'm disappointed..God forgive me, if I am... I'm getting old and really wanted to have a local church...

 

[Amethyst]

It really is hard to find a good church. I live in a very small town and found one that is Pretriib..and does not believe in replacement theology..was excited and set to join then when covid hit the church started doing all on FB live...after a few months of listening I don't know if I can...Sermons start out ok but soon go into personal stories about the pastors family..friends and past experiences.I take a deep breath and wait for him to get back to the message...he usually does for a short period....lately he's moved on to focusing about how we, as believers, need to treat each other with love. And I sure agree, but he's spending in unusual amount of time on it...I keep thinking, you can't browbeat people into showing Christian love to one another..can you..I do think the pastor has a loving heart, but I'm not getting messages that encourage me or teach me...maybe part of the problem is Me...am I just being arrogant because I'm disappointed..God forgive me, if I am... I'm getting old and really wanted to have a local church...

I myself live in what has historically been a pretty conservative metropolitan melting pot between IN/KY border and I've had a time of it, if that says anything!

 

[Brother Albert R.]

I myself live in what has historically been a pretty conservative metropolitan melting pot between IN/KY border and I've had a time of it, if that says anything!

Reading about this pastor and his education, it seems to me that he has a lot in common with Dr. John MacArthur. So if you like John MacArthur (and I do) it seems that they are very much alike in their theology.
God bless
Brother Albert

 

[Amethyst]

Reading about this pastor and his education, it seems to me that he has a lot in common with Dr. John MacArthur.

In common such as what?

 

[Brother Albert R.]

In common such as what?

Read the link below about Anchor church Pastor Jack doctrinal statment
https://www.anchorbiblechurch.org/doctrinal-statement
and Dr. MacArthurs' church statement below
https://www.gracechurch.org/about/doctrinal-statement

Perhaps you could just sit down and talk to this pastor and ask him yourself...this is always the best way to find out the truth..
I hope this helps
God bless you Amethyst,
Brother Albert

 

[Jan51]

Reading about this pastor and his education, it seems to me that he has a lot in common with Dr. John MacArthur. So if you like John MacArthur (and I do) it seems that they are very much alike in their theology.
God bless
Brother Albert

That is interesting indeed, and it pulls several thoughts together for me. John MacArthur and his seminary, which this pastor attended, are Calvinistic. Calvinists are legalistic, hence the embrace of Lordship Salvation. Why are Calvinists leglaistic? Because they can't know for sure if they are saved--if they are for sure one of the elect chosen by God for salvation; they do not believe salvation is the result of personally believing. Because they can't know for sure, they are taught that fruit is the evidence of salvation--good works. They stress obedience. Church membership and attendance are seen as obedience. Googled JM--he teaches the importance of submission to the authority of the leadership of the church, of the accountability that it brings, of not being guilty of compromise. These can be good biblical things, but Calvinists have a reputation for over-emphasizing them.

Which brings me to my next thought. Is this behind JM's bold move of re-opening his church no matter what? Don't get me wrong--I agree with what he is doing and hope more churches do the same. But now I am wondering if he is partly driven by legalism--that good Christians MUST go to church, and that they MUST be in an environment where they can be held accountable by the leadership?

https://www.gty.org/library/blog/B130107/john-macarthur-on-the-importance-of-church-membership
https://www.gty.org/library/questions/QA124/why-should-i-attend-church