Psalms 83 Questions

RandallB

Well-Known Member
Regarding the timeframes of the intervals.

There is no real scripture on those.

Just there must be some time for Israel to grow rich and secure after Ps 83 et al for Ezek 38 nations to want to raid her riches.

Also scripture says that Israel will burn the weapons for 7 years. Really can't figure out how they would do that while fleeing from the ac in the GT.

So that could mean about 11.5 years +/- from Rapture to 2nd Coming.

Scripture does state that there is time in heaven. The Trib Saints under the altar are told they must wait some period of time until more events on earth occur -- i.e. deaths of more Trib Saints.

There are also sequences of events in heaven. Scripture does describe heaven as having one thing happening after another. So there must be time of some sort whether it exactly matches up with earth time -- :idunno: :idunno:

The 3 week delay of Gabriel by the angel of Persia seems to translate into a 3 week delay in getting to Daniel here on earth. Not exactly sure that this took place in the Heavenlies but it is an indication.... Gabriel was sent while in Heaven on the first day that Daniel began praying here on earth. So again - there is a match up somehow.
 

Elijah's Mantle

Well-Known Member
:elmogrin good to think on Randall :nod

I am certain somehow that God's time is perfect and right
the hard part is we do not know that perfect here on the earth
the book of Hosea said it well about time one part of it :thinking:
Ive read the passages when time is no more the announcement is made and it is always awesome to read :thumbup It will be amazing what God does and Israel
Ive thought for a long time the sequel to against all odds will be phenomenal :cool2:
 

livingskies

Well-Known Member
What I have never really considered is the time gap you have of 1 and 3.5 years elapsing after the rapture and before the start of the 7 year tribulation. you assert that this is based mainly on the time it takes to establish peace and security in Israel (hence the one year time gap after the Great Middle East War) and the 3.5 year time gap so there is 7 years to burn the weapons before the start of the great tribulation period (last 3.5 years of the tribulation) when Israel will be on the run and unable to burn the weapons.

So you think that there could be up to 11.5 years after the rapture until the second coming?

What this current Gaza situation has shown me is this. War takes a long time. They were estimating up to 10 days of war and then 6-12 months to secure Gaza. Just Gaza. That doesn't include all the rest of the inner ring (Ps83 et al). So however long that war actually takes, and then to clean up and secure to Betach, 1 year seems quick..... I would estimate higher. Just with how things are playing out right now in these last several weeks. I do agree that the likely burning of weapons seems to be like it would last to mid trib, just logically, as the Great Trib anyone connected to Christ or God will be hiding or dead.... So the 3.5 year gap seems logical too...

The piece that doesn't fit for me is the great delusion and the big AC reveal. They will have to come up with something to account for the rapture and its hard to ulimagine these wars going on per usual in the midst of a big delusion which involves the AC ("messiah, peace leader..."). The AC won't be accepted as such until post Ezekiel 37-38. So as someone else mentioned, it is difficult to reconcile how the delusion is playing out for4.5+ years rapture to trib. Uhhh especially if it is "paranormal". Can anyone tell me, would it make sense for the false prophet to be in operation in this time post rapture but pretrib, like 4.5+ years, biblically? Like the world religion setting up, and new democracies setting up, during and between these wars? Can the 10 horns be operational before the trib? The AC is the little horn that usurps 3 horns, right? Could that usurping be at the start of the trib/signing peace treaty?

Sorry if I'm way off, just trying to logically work through this but I don't have near the study hours into this as many on this board do. :scratch:


The Overcomes - I agree. I think time will be different in heaven, and only exist as it pertains to what unfolds on earth (sequence). I don't think we will all stand in line for years for the BEMA seat. :)
 
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Sydney Spider

The Lady Spider
I hadn't really considered the length of time that the Psalm 83 will take when looking at the possible timeline of events. I would imagine that if the Rapture happened pre-Psalm 83, the AC would then be unrestrained by the Restrainer - in which case, wouldn't he then be on the world scene concurrently with the Psalm 83 war and being involved in it somehow? Perhaps by trying to negotiate a truce, etc.? I can't imagine satan keeping him on a backburner for the length of time that the Psalm 83 war would take....he'd surely be champing at the bit to get him onto the world stage, pronto. But we don't see any indication of an AC being somewhere in the picture in passages pertaining to the Psalm 83 war.

So I'm therefore now wondering whether the church might be here for the Psalm 83 war after all or least a good portion of it. I just don't know what to think. :scratch:
 

TheOvercomers

Well-Known Member
Scripture does state that there is time in heaven. The Trib Saints under the altar are told they must wait some period of time until more events on earth occur -- i.e. deaths of more Trib Saints.

There are also sequences of events in heaven. Scripture does describe heaven as having one thing happening after another. So there must be time of some sort whether it exactly matches up with earth time -- :idunno: :idunno:

The 3 week delay of Gabriel by the angel of Persia seems to translate into a 3 week delay in getting to Daniel here on earth. Not exactly sure that this took place in the Heavenlies but it is an indication.... Gabriel was sent while in Heaven on the first day that Daniel began praying here on earth. So again - there is a match up somehow.

Good point brother. I think that the law of time as it applies to physics will always be around. What I meant by what I said was that since by the Grace of God we shall one day dwell in his presence, where there is no night, knowing that we won't need sleep, then to me it seems that we won't need to keep track of time. In essence, at the Rapture we will begin the day of eternity, a day begun by Jesus Christ when he conquered death, a day that in Christ will know no end. O and what a day that shall be. So when we get to heaven, after a trillion years and on, we won't need to say, "today I'm a trillion years old" (lol), no, to us, it shall still be as one day. Just as a day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is as a day.

Revelation 22:13
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Maranatha!!!
 
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Geri7

Well-Known Member
Also the Tree of Life bears fruit every month . . .

Revelation 22:2
In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month:

My understanding is time will still be in heaven, however, we will not be subject to time like we are right now on earth. Heaven will ALWAYS be sunny and we will be able to visit, talk with people and do stuff and never get tired/sleepy and there is no darkness for us to have to break up our conversations. We certainly will never have to say "sorry I'm getting sleepy can we continue this conversation tomorrow morning?" :hehheh
 
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TheOvercomers

Well-Known Member
:
I don't think we will all stand in line for years for the BEMA seat. :)

Me neither, for in my case, it would probably take a couple of years to account for all my sin and missed opportunities where I could have shared the gospel with another. I'm sure that many of us can say the same thing, including the great king David..

Psalm 40:12
For innumerable evils have compassed me about: mine iniquities have taken hold upon me, so that I am not able to look up; they are more than the hairs of mine head: therefore my heart faileth me.

Praise God that we have a God who delights in mercy, and when we stand before him, he shall not see our sin, but shall see in us the righteousness of his Son, who loves us and gave himself for us, and shall remember our sins no more.

God bless.
 
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livingskies

Well-Known Member
Also the Tree of Life bears fruit every month . . .

Revelation 22:2
In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month

I am undecided about Rev 21&22 being either in the millennium or in eternity. On another thread - Jack Kelley on the millennium (I think prophecy chat?) - there was discussion about Rev 21&22 being in the millennium. Which actually makes more sense, or else the millennium isn't really discussed but eternity is.... (Which doesn't make sense). Leaving eternity a giant mystery!!! The tree of life bearing fruit monthly is one indication that time will still exist (millenium) and eternity won't have started. The only question I have is about death being no more, and tears being no more. No more tears or death in the millennium??? Is every aspect of the curse lifted except for man's sin nature? Sorry, derailment. I should post that on the other thread!
 

Blinkofani7

Member
I hadn't really considered the length of time that the Psalm 83 will take when looking at the possible timeline of events. I would imagine that if the Rapture happened pre-Psalm 83, the AC would then be unrestrained by the Restrainer - in which case, wouldn't he then be on the world scene concurrently with the Psalm 83 war and being involved in it somehow? Perhaps by trying to negotiate a truce, etc.? I can't imagine satan keeping him on a backburner for the length of time that the Psalm 83 war would take....he'd surely be champing at the bit to get him onto the world stage, pronto. But we don't see any indication of an AC being somewhere in the picture in passages pertaining to the Psalm 83 war.

So I'm therefore now wondering whether the church might be here for the Psalm 83 war after all or least a good portion of it. I just don't know what to think. :scratch:

Hello, I don't post very often, mostly just read everyone else's thoughts and opinions. For a couple of years I have wrestled with Ezekial 39:9.
I believe end time events will continue to speed up and once the church is taken out, I just can't imagine the AC not arriving immediately with all the answers. As I stated in post #19, why would he wait? He will know his time is short. For me there's a domino effect….If the weapons are burned for 7 years before AD, then they begin burning 3.5 years before AC arrives. If that is true, then the Bride is on her honeymoon with the Bridegroom for more than an earthly 7 year tribulation period. I realize time is different in heaven, but I am unable to find anything in God's Word that says our honeymoon with the Lord is longer than the time of Jacob's trouble here on earth.

I tend to think we may be here to see Ps. 83 and I do believe it precedes Gog/Magog, however, we are not destined for wrath, so there again if the sequence of events is rapture-Ps 83-Gog/Magog-AC and tribulation, I'm back to quite a number of years with the restraining influence gone and the AC biding his time before arriving on the scene. If it's Ps.83-rapture-Gog/Magog-AC, same problem. If it's Ps. 83-Gog/Magog beginning simultaneously with rapture-Gog/Magog ends-AC, still have to burn the weapons for 7 years…..Can't seem to reconcile the order of events with the restraining influence gone and the burning of weapons.

Anyone willing to help me with my wrestling match, show me the error in my logic, I would be very grateful.
 
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WVBORN56

New Member
Here is a link for the pdf version that might print out nicer than the web version.

http://www.mexico-real-estate.us/Ministry/History%20of%20the%20Future-C.pdf

Please do not give credit except maybe "a guy on RF". The material really belongs to all of us since it was gleaned from postings and discussions with you'all.

I have permission for the copyrighted maps from Amy for RF & RR members personal use and postings. Please get permission from her at Tracking Bible Prophecy: Discovering Future World Events Through Scripture if you wish to do more than that.

:hat:

Actually -- just checked Amy's web site and she has added this message to it.


So it looks like it is OK.

"Some guy on RF" haha
Will do Randall, thanks.... I hope that line does not lose me too much credibility. :lol:
Blessings, Mark
 

livingskies

Well-Known Member
The thought I have is that the AC enters the scene as a peaceful world ruler. At first, he is just A ruler, initiating a peace treaty with many (incl. Israel, after her great defeat of Gog). The he rises to power politically as the white horse rider with crown. He reveals as the AC at the AD. So, it does make sense that he needs to be rising to power instead of just"appearing" (unless it is a ufo-type appearance). But, assuming he is a man, he will need to rise to power and he is currently being restrained from doing so. I am not sure how restrained he is. Like if he could charge right on the scene. But a period of time is not illogical - unrestrained, he will begin his ascent to power. Does he even know he is the AC? I doubt it. He probably doesn't know the term, or the prophecies. Did Judas know what he would do when he first followed Jesus? I doubt it...

I dunno, I am still wrestling. The Jewish wedding tradition is a week long and seems very symbolic of the bride/Christ relationship, I'll see if I can find the link.

The wrath that comes in the Ps83 area wars is on godless nations, I don't believe any of the bride will be fighting. Same with Gog/Magog. Whether we are here or not I don't know. I do know that God's wrath will not fall on the bride of Christ, so if we are here I imagine God will ensure none of the bride is there when and where his wrath falls. We are definitely gone pre-trib but the Bible is silent on the other wars/rapture timing. Well, even on the wars timing. All we can do is watch and wait. I don't feel strongly enough either way to make a definite opinion on it. If anything most on here believe we will be gone pre-Ps 83 and pre-Ez. In which case, what we are watching is NOT Ps83 beginning, but maybe lead-ups to it. :idunno:

That's how it is with prophecy - we can know in part but not the whole, we see dimly as in a mirror, but hindsight becomes much clearer :). To the trib saints it will make sense :)
 
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Micki

MARANATHA!!
While in Yisrael I was told that couples there prefer to marry on the third day of the week because it has a double blessing on that day. It is the only day where the words "God saw that it was good" is assigned to it twice (Genesis 1:10; 12).
 
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RandallB

Well-Known Member
Quote Originally Posted by livingskies

I don't think we will all stand in line for years for the BEMA seat. :)

When it is put that way --- neither do I.

But how about an awards ceremony in which we can see all that the dear saints have done in the power of the spirit for the work of the Lord and celebrating with them.

A celebration ceremony where we can see all the righteous acts of those that went before us - that others built on - that planted seeds that finally resulted in our loved ones or even ourselves hearing the Gospel and accepting His finished work at the Cross.

I feel that a few years would be a minimum celebration time for the Bride to celebrate with her Intended while He is preparing her wedding gown with the righteous works that were done thru the Bride's cooperation with the Holy Spirit.
:hyper: :hyper: :hyper:
 

TheOvercomers

Well-Known Member
Jewish Wedding Customs and their place in Jesus' teachings
This is a messianic Jewish site, and the link is about Jewish wedding tradition. Mods please delete link if not acceptable. I found an article on rapture ready but I thought this one better went through the Jewish tradition (being Jewish)

Here's the RR one. https://www.raptureready.com/soap/salus11.html

Thanks for the link sis, I really loved this article. I personally consider Messianics as Christians, as that was the term given at Antioch, and to me, they are the real Jews, Jews which are not only inward Jews, but outward as well. My heart breaks for them in their struggles. And while I love the people of Israel, I think that the Churches should also concentrate on helping them in their needs.

God bless.
 
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RandallB

Well-Known Member
"Some guy on RF" haha
Will do Randall, thanks.... I hope that line does not lose me too much credibility. :lol:
Blessings, Mark


Are we talking Rapture Ridicule??

Know exactly what you mean...


Maybe it will make someone curious enough that they just might check us out and join in the discussion....

Blessings, Randy
 

RandallB

Well-Known Member
Personally, I think in eternity, for Rev 21:1 opens up with the New Heaven and Earth.

agree.gif


In fact, I believe that Rev 21:1-8 really belong in Rev 20 and are definitely talking about Eternity. It is a natural continuation of that topic of the GTW & Lake o' Fire. John describes the New Jerusalem which I believe will be our home for Eternity. Also talks of No Sea. Yet the Med Sea is named as a border of Israel during the Mill.

Rev 21:9 takes us back to the beginning of the Mill with the Angel that just dumped his bowls. John describes Jerusalem (not New) coming down from Heaven. Which I believe will be the Bride's home for the Millenium. Also describes the Leaves for Healing of the Nations. Won't need healing in Eternity so this must be talking about Millennium timeframe.

(Don't ya just hate it when that guy messes up the chapter breaks like that. Jack Kelly stated once that they are still looking for that guy but haven't quite got him captured just yet.)
 
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Blinkofani7

Member
The thought I have is that the AC enters the scene as a peaceful world ruler. At first, he is just A ruler, initiating a peace treaty with many (incl. Israel, after her great defeat of Gog).


The he rises to power politically as the white horse rider with crown. He reveals as the AC at the AD. Agreed! So, it does make sense that he needs to be rising to power instead of just"appearing" (unless it is a ufo-type appearance). But, assuming he is a man, he will need to rise to power and he is currently being restrained from doing so. I am not sure how restrained he is. Like if he could charge right on the scene. But a period of time is not illogical - unrestrained, he will begin his ascent to power. Isn't the peace covenant confirmed with many at the end of Gog/Magog? Does he even know he is the AC? I doubt it. He probably doesn't know the term, or the prophecies. Did Judas know what he would do when he first followed Jesus? I doubt it...

I dunno, I am still wrestling. The Jewish wedding tradition is a week long and seems very symbolic of the bride/Christ relationship, I'll see if I can find the link.

The wrath that comes in the Ps83 area wars is on godless nations, I don't believe any of the bride will be fighting.



Same with Gog/Magog. Whether we are here or not I don't know. I do know that God's wrath will not fall on the bride of Christ, so if we are here I imagine God will ensure none of the bride is there when and where his wrath falls. We are definitely gone pre-trib but the Bible is silent on the other wars/rapture timing. Well, even on the wars timing. All we can do is watch and wait. I don't feel strongly enough either way to make a definite opinion on it. If anything most on here believe we will be gone pre-Ps 83 and pre-Ez. In which case, what we are watching is NOT Ps83 beginning, but maybe lead-ups to it. :idunno:

That's how it is with prophecy - we can know in part but not the whole, we see dimly as in a mirror, but hindsight becomes much clearer :). To the trib saints it will make sense :)

He confirms a covenant with many. Confirms an already existent covenant. This starts the seven-year clock ticking. He knows his time is short. How do we arrive at the end of Gog/Magog with an already existent peace covenant being confirmed with many (trib is now underway), the clock ticking down 7 years, yet weapons from the Gog/Magog war being used as fuel 3.5 years prior to the covenant being signed which means at least 10.5 years post-rapture….Unless Gog/Magog does not end with the confirming of the covenant? The world will be ripe for answers as to the disappearance of millions of people and all the other troubles of that time. For me, it just doesn't fit that AC will dilly-dally around for a decade or more, when scripture says birth pangs will speed up, and taking into consideration our seven-year honeymoon with the Lord….I can't get the weapons burned at the right time to make it all fit. Obviously, I am missing something.

I agree those end time battles are with Godless nations, but thought because there will be Christians living in those countries (not destined for wrath), rapture would happen prior….Which gets me back to a long time period (decade or more) post-rapture before the signing of the covenant.

Thank you for your time in responding. :wave
 
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