Psalms 83 Questions

[M281920]

Is there a thread or article on this site that helps to outline the nations mentioned in Psalms 83?

Is the Psalms 83 war a pre-rapture war? Sometimes I get a little confused by some of the comments made in this forum. At times I think the forum members think the war happens before the rapture and then at times it seems like some believe the war will happen after the rapture? What is the official position of this site?

 

[readytogo]

The rapture is imminent. Nothing has to happen before the rapture occurs. That is the official position of this forum. Some people believe/hope that the Psalm 83 "war" MIGHT occur before the rapture, but there's no way of KNOWING if it will.

 

[TheOvercomers]

I personally don't hope that Israel goes to war against any, yet deep down inside I know that it is inevitable, given the hatred of her by her neighbors. The thing to me is, that whether by the Psalm 83 or the Ezekiel invasion, regardless on when they happen, when antichrist rises, "all these things shall be GIVEN into his hands". So to me, it is within reason to include Muslims into the mix, as they are not exempt from the coming delusion that shall affect the world.

God bless.

Matthew 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

 

[M281920]

Please do not misunderstand my question....I agree the rapture is imminent. I didn't imply that it wasn't. (nor would I for that matter) :sharks:

I was asking about the position of this forum regarding the Psalms 83 war. Thus far I haven't been able to tell what that is. For example in some of the posts here I have read statements like (paraphrasing here) "the psalms 83 war may be starting". I am simply trying to learn more about the Psalms 83 war in relation to the rapture.

1. If before the rapture - How do you know that from reading Psalms 83.
2. If after the rapture - How do you know that from reading Psalms 83.

 

[TheOvercomers]

My friend, I personally don't think that we should be concerned too much with war or rumors of war, as these things must be. From what I've also gathered from our brethren here, is that there are various views concerning these wars. With that said, I think the top priority for the Church should simply be to await for the Lord to come from heaven, praying without ceasing, for our brethren, for peace, and for the lost, that God may fulfill all that he has spoken by the prophets, as recorded in that blessed Hebrew book we call the Holy Bible.

 

[Joseph The Carpenter]

The inner circle of enemies attack first (Psalm 83), than the outer ring of enemies (Ezekiel 38).
By the end of Ezekiel 38 GOD will turn HIS attention to ISRAEL so the Church will have been Raptured. Than the AC enters the picture.
To the best of my knowledge the board has no official position on when the Rapture happens, only it is imminent and we will not be here when the AC appears.
Some hope to be able to use Psalm 83 as a witnessing tool.
Hope this helped and welcome to the board.

 

[M281920]

My friend, I personally don't think that we should be concerned too much with war or rumors of war, as these things must be. From what I've also gathered from our brethren here, is that there are various views concerning these wars. With that said, I think the top priority for the Church should simply be to await for the Lord to come from heaven, praying without ceasing, for our brethren, for peace, and for the lost, that God may fulfill all that he has spoken by the prophets, as recorded in that blessed Hebrew book we call the Holy Bible.

I see nothing wrong with trying to get a little more understanding about a passage of scripture which speaks of a future event. It is part of God's word, right? I know there are people here with more experience on this subject; so, I am looking to get their help understanding it. I am not concerned in the sense that I am afraid or worried. I'm just looking for more insight. Bible prophecy can be used as a witnessing tool. So why not understand a little more about what is to come so that I might be able to use that to help people see God's word is true?

Another thing I would like to add...The timing doesn't matter as much as the fact that it is all getting nearer. I just wanted help so that if I am asked about the timing I can intelligently give an answer.

 

[M281920]

The inner circle of enemies attack first (Psalm 83), than the outer ring of enemies (Ezekiel 38).
By the end of Ezekiel 38 GOD will turn HIS attention to ISRAEL so the Church will have been Raptured. Than the AC enters the picture.
To the best of my knowledge the board has no official position on when the Rapture happens, only it is imminent and we will not be here when the AC appears.
Some hope to be able to use Psalm 83 as a witnessing tool.
Hope this helped and welcome to the board.

Thanks...

Ok, this is what I am looking for...You list Psalms 83 first and then Ezekiel 38. How do you know it comes in that order? (no disrespect intended) Also, wouldn't God's attention already be towards Israel in Ezekiel 38 per Ezekiel 37? Isn't that why God gets angry - Ezekiel 38:18?

 

[readytogo]

Thanks...

Ok, this is what I am looking for...You list Psalms 83 first and then Ezekiel 38. How do you know it comes in that order? Also, wouldn't God's attention already be towards Israel in Ezekiel 38 per Ezekiel 37? Isn't that why God gets angry - Ezekiel 38:18?

The countries listed for Ezekiel 38/39 do not include Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, or the "Palestinians", etc. Yet, the Ezekiel countries would have to cross through the above named countries to get to Israel. Common sense tells us that if they were still there, and they were being crossed to attack Israel, that they would join in the fray. Since they are not listed among the enemies of Ezekiel 38-39, something must have happened to them to not join in.

 

[M281920]

The countries listed for Ezekiel 38/39 do not include Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, or the "Palestinians", etc. Yet, the Ezekiel countries would have to cross through the above named countries to get to Israel. Common sense tells us that if they were still there, and they were being crossed to attack Israel, that they would join in the fray. Since they are not listed among the enemies of Ezekiel 38-39, something must have happened to them to not join in.

Awesome...thanks!

So, how do I track down the nations listed in Psalms 83 to determine who they are today?

 

[RandallB]

Welcome to RF M281920!!! :

Great Questions!

My nephew who just graduated from the Air Force academy and is training to be a fighter pilot had many of the same questions a couple of summers ago. He was worried that he would be called upon to fight against Israel when "All the Nations Gather Against Her".

I put together a paper for him. The paper showed him that he had nothing to worry about.

It does deal with many of the questions that you have asked. It is by no means the majority opinion of this Board but some do agree that it is based on scripture and we do discuss various points that it deals with almost daily.

Food for thot anyway....

 

[Joseph The Carpenter]

That one is worth printing out.

 

[Elijah's Mantle]

awesome Randal that should be a sticky

Its good to go over even now I find it highly valuable to read over

 

[TheOvercomers]

Bible prophecy can be used as a witnessing tool

Yes it is, yet I personally use those that have been fulfilled, those that point to Jesus Christ. For had the Ethiopian Eunuch been reading Ezekiel 38, instead of Isaiah 53, I don't think that we would have been reading his story at all.

God bless.

 

[LivnForChrist]

TheOvercomers but it we only focused on fulfilled prophecy
about Jesus, we wouldn't have Rapture Forums would we?
Not trying to offend and I'm saying this in love. Not all of us
are at the same place in our walk with God. Not all of us know
the same thing about Bible prophecy. We should welcome questions
that people have, especially when they are a sincere attempt to
understand the word of God. We must examine the whole word,
not just parts of it. Do you agree? :

Great questions M281920! There is nothing wrong with anything
that you have asked.

RandallB, Great Post!!! I'm printing that out!

 

[TheOvercomers]

TheOvercomers but it we only focused on fulfilled prophecy
about Jesus, we wouldn't have Rapture Forums would we?
Not trying to offend and I'm saying this in love. Not all of us
are at the same place in our walk with God. Not all of us know
the same thing about Bible prophecy. We should welcome questions
that people have, especially when they are a sincere attempt to
understand the word of God. We must examine the whole word,
not just parts of it. Do you agree? :

Great questions M281920! There is nothing wrong with anything
that you have asked.

RandallB, Great Post!!! I'm printing that out!

No offence taken dear sister (it is very hard to offend me), and good point. I'm also thankful for this forum and its administrators. My concern for fellow believers though is that we don't put too much emphasis on war, or rumors of war. Besides the Rapture, which is certain, all of the other prophecies concerning the nations and the house of Israel will surely come to pass, in God's perfect will, but none can say for sure how all those prophecies shall come to pass, for none but God almighty can be certain of the future, all we can do is speculate, which to me is not beneficial or edifying as it can cause divisions among those who disagree.

In the words of Paul...
1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Also...
Philippians 1:27
Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

Philippians 2:2
Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

Which also fills me with joy to see that many of you are.

God bless.

 

[WVBORN56]

Great post Randall! Here is a question or two and an observation from your material. This is exactly how I see things playing out as well. Many folks think that Gog-Magog takes place after the rapture but I don't see as many on board with The great Middle East war occurring after the rapture. My thinking was that neither seems to fit well in the church dispensation. They seem to fit better in a dispensation like the old testament. Also Jesus comes for the church like a thief in the night and at a time of business as usual based on his return as in the days of Noah. If we have the wars before the rapture with God's significant intervention in both "wars" the whole world will have a huge heads up and I don't think they will get that opportunity.

What I have never really considered is the time gap you have of 1 and 3.5 years elapsing after the rapture and before the start of the 7 year tribulation. you assert that this is based mainly on the time it takes to establish peace and security in Israel (hence the one year time gap after the Great Middle East War) and the 3.5 year time gap so there is 7 years to burn the weapons before the start of the great tribulation period (last 3.5 years of the tribulation) when Israel will be on the run and unable to burn the weapons.

So you think that there could be up to 11.5 years after the rapture until the second coming? Is that correct? If true it is probably good to get that out there in our teaching now so those left behind that come to Jesus during that time will know they may have more than 7 years to go before the return of Christ. I think there is certainly the idea out there the 7 year count down will not start until the covenant is signed between Israel and the AC but not too much discussion on a potential time gap between the rapture and the start of the 7 year tribulation.

This makes perfect sense to me as you have laid it out! That is why what we are currently watching in the Middle East is so incredibly exciting. If we are not hear as a church for either of this two wars, Great Middle East and Gog Magog anything we do see that leads up to them tells we are at the very door of the rapture.

Maybe for the church we need the extra 4.5 years in Heaven for crowns and award ceremonies (judgment seat of Christ) and exploring our mansions before the start of the honeymoon and marriage super of the Lamb since it will coincide with the 7 year great tribulation here on earth!

Fun to ponder and fit the pieces of the puzzle all together! Thanks again for the great documentation and the work that went into to preparing it. Would you mind if I used your material to do a Sunday evening teaching at our church? I would be glad to credit you as the source.

 

[TheOvercomers]

Maybe for the church we need the extra 4.5 years in Heaven for crowns and award ceremonies (judgment seat of Christ) and exploring our mansions before the start of the honeymoon and marriage super of the Lamb since it will coincide with the 7 year great tribulation here on earth!

That's quite an imagination there beloved, and its great to ponder.

But if the Rapture happens in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, could not the judgment seat of Christ also happen at the same time? For what is time for God?

I believe that the moment we are clothed in inmortality, time for us, as we know it, shall cease to exist.

God bless.

 

[Blinkofani7]

Great post Randall! Here is a question or two and an observation from your material. This is exactly how I see things playing out as well. Many folks think that Gog-Magog takes place after the rapture but I don't see as many on board with The great Middle East war occurring after the rapture. My thinking was that neither seems to fit well in the church dispensation. They seem to fit better in a dispensation like the old testament. Also Jesus comes for the church like a thief in the night and at a time of business as usual based on his return as in the days of Noah. If we have the wars before the rapture with God's significant intervention in both "wars" the whole world will have a huge heads up and I don't think they will get that opportunity.

What I have never really considered is the time gap you have of 1 and 3.5 years elapsing after the rapture and before the start of the 7 year tribulation. you assert that this is based mainly on the time it takes to establish peace and security in Israel (hence the one year time gap after the Great Middle East War) and the 3.5 year time gap so there is 7 years to burn the weapons before the start of the great tribulation period (last 3.5 years of the tribulation) when Israel will be on the run and unable to burn the weapons.

So you think that there could be up to 11.5 years after the rapture until the second coming? Is that correct? If true it is probably good to get that out there in our teaching now so those left behind that come to Jesus during that time will know they may have more than 7 years to go before the return of Christ. I think there is certainly the idea out there the 7 year count down will not start until the covenant is signed between Israel and the AC but not too much discussion on a potential time gap between the rapture and the start of the 7 year tribulation.

This makes perfect sense to me as you have laid it out! That is why what we are currently watching in the Middle East is so incredibly exciting. If we are not hear as a church for either of this two wars, Great Middle East and Gog Magog anything we do see that leads up to them tells we are at the very door of the rapture.

Maybe for the church we need the extra 4.5 years in Heaven for crowns and award ceremonies (judgment seat of Christ) and exploring our mansions before the start of the honeymoon and marriage super of the Lamb since it will coincide with the 7 year great tribulation here on earth!

Fun to ponder and fit the pieces of the puzzle all together! Thanks again for the great documentation and the work that went into to preparing it. Would you mind if I used your material to do a Sunday evening teaching at our church? I would be glad to credit you as the source.

Curious question….If prophetic events speed up (birth pangs), once the restraining influence is removed (Holy Spirit indwelling the church), and the world clamors for an answer as to where millions of people disappeared to, is the AC going to wait 4-5 years to come on the scene? Why would he wait? IMHO, there may be some amount of time after the Ps. 83 battle for Israel to develop a false sense of security, but I believe AC comes on the scene very shortly after Gog/Magog with answers for all the world's woes.

 

[RandallB]

Here is a link for the pdf version that might print out nicer than the web version.

http://www.mexico-real-estate.us/Ministry/History%20of%20the%20Future-C.pdf

Please do not give credit except maybe "a guy on RF". The material really belongs to all of us since it was gleaned from postings and discussions with you'all.

I have permission for the copyrighted maps from Amy for RF & RR members personal use and postings. Please get permission from her at Tracking Bible Prophecy: Discovering Future World Events Through Scripture if you wish to do more than that.

:

Actually -- just checked Amy's web site and she has added this message to it.

Permission is granted to use and reproduce the materials on this website,
provided they are used in context with the source cited.

So it looks like it is OK.