Parable of the ten virgins
- Thread starter Eva1974
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mbrown1219
Heaven's Stables
http://www.gotquestions.org/parable-ten-virgins.html
See what GotQuestions says about it if you would like to. And Merry Chistmas to you Eva!
See what GotQuestions says about it if you would like to. And Merry Chistmas to you Eva!
Andrew
Well known member
The Church is the Bride; the 10 virgins are not the Bride.
https://gracethrufaith.com/end-times-prophecy/understanding-the-olivet-discourse-parables-part-2/
https://gracethrufaith.com/end-times-prophecy/understanding-the-olivet-discourse-parables-part-2/
Hol
Worships Him
MelissaW
Well-Known Member
AndrewI've never heard that interpretation before. I like it. Makes much sense the way Jack explains. Jack Kelly has taught me so much. I'm grateful for his wealth of resources still available online. Can't wait to meet him
acceptedinthebeloved
Well-Known Member
Right on!10 virgins are trying to survive the tribulations and get in to the Millennium Kingdom. It will be extremely hard for someone to maintain their faith throughout the 7 year tribulations, and the five foolish ones will suffer for eternity for losing their faith.
Im so happy that we in the Church, can not lose our salvation, and will not enter the tribulations. Thank God Almighty.
Im so happy that we in the Church, can not lose our salvation, and will not enter the tribulations. Thank God Almighty.
The Parable Of The Ten Virgins
Wednesday, January 7th, 2015
A Bible Study by Jack Kelley
“At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. Five of them were foolish and five were wise. The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. The wise, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.
“At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here’s the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’
“Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.’
” ‘No,’ they replied, ‘there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’
“But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.
“Later the others also came. ‘Sir! Sir!’ they said. ‘Open the door for us!’
“But he replied, ‘I tell you the truth, I don’t know you.’
“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour (Matt. 25:1-13).
What’s That All About?
This parable is often incorrectly described as having to do with the church, especially by those who cling to the post-tribulation rapture viewpoint. Let’s apply some standard rules of interpretation to see what it really means.
As for the timing of the event, there’s little debate since it’s clearly disclosed. The opening phrase “At that time” refers to several earlier references in the Olivet Discourse all pointing back to Matthew 24:29 which says, “Immediately after the distress (tribulation) of those days…”
This verse of course refers to the Great Tribulation. It’s a 3 1/2 year long sequence of judgments begun by the appearance of the “abomination that causes desolation, standing in the Holy Place,” commonly thought to be the anti-christ standing in the newly rebuilt Jewish Temple in Israel proclaiming himself to be god. Paul prophesied this in 2 Thes. 2:4.
So the timing of the parable is just after the end of the Great Tribulation, when what’s left of the world awaits the appearance of Messiah, the King. But notice, they’ve been waiting a long time, implying that the story actually began much earlier, and is now concluding.
The parable centers around 10 virgins, or bridesmaids depending on which translation you prefer, awaiting the appearance of a bridegroom. The Greek word is parthenos, which always describes someone who has never had sexual intercourse. The use of the word bridesmaid comes from an attempt by translators to adhere to the context of the story. But in any case, here’s where some knowledge of 1st century Jewish wedding traditions comes in handy.
Can I Marry Her?
In those days when a man took a fancy to a young woman, he approached her father to ask for her hand in marriage. A brief negotiation followed where the price he was required to pay as compensation for the family’s loss of their daughter was determined. It was called the bride price. If acceptable, and if the daughter agreed to become the man’s wife, they were officially betrothed and he went away to build a home for them next to his father’s house. This could take some time, and the couple rarely met again until the father of the groom pronounced the newly built home fit for habitation. Only then was the date set, and the man given permission by his father to go collect his bride for the wedding.
During this time the young woman was to watch and wait. She and her bridesmaids were to maintain a constant state of preparedness, since the wedding date would not be known to her until the bridegroom actually appeared. For his part, the groom would usually try to show up unexpectedly to surprise her, carrying her off suddenly “like a thief in the night” when no one would see them. When the bridesmaids discovered the bride had been “snatched away” there would be a great torch-lit procession, announcing to the whole town that the wedding banquet was about to begin. This was typically a seven day celebration during which the bride and groom were hidden away in their private rooms while the whole town made merry. The father of the groom picked up the tab for the festivities.
I Can See Clearly Now
Against the backdrop of this tradition, the meaning becomes clear when we insert the actual characters that those in the parable represent. To do this, we’ll rely on the principle of expositional constancy, from which we learn that symbolism in scripture tends to be consistent. For example, whenever yeast is used symbolically it always refers to sin, while symbolic use of the word rock always refers to the Lord, etc.
All through the scriptures, whenever the term bridegroom is used symbolically, it always refers to the Lord. And no one argues that the Bride of Christ is uniquely descriptive of the church. Obviously, the bridesmaids are not the Bride so they can’t represent the church. In fact, the Bride is never mentioned anywhere in the parable, and in any case could never be refused admittance to her own wedding banquet. She was obviously spirited away earlier while the bridesmaids slept. The bridesmaids represent people on Earth during the Great Tribulation after the church has gone.
Got Oil?
Now it’s time for the wedding banquet but some bridesmaids lack sufficient oil to light the way. Asking to borrow some from their friends they’re refused, since there might not be enough to go around, and are sent off to buy some for themselves. By the time they return, the banquet has already begun, the door is closed and they’re denied admission, the bridegroom claiming that he doesn’t even know them.
Checking on the symbolic use of oil, we find it refers to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is a gift uniquely given to believers at the moment of salvation. You can’t get it for others nor can they give any of theirs to you. Each of us has to receive it by ourselves and for ourselves.
During the Church Age the Holy Spirit is sealed within believers as a guarantee of our inheritance. But no such guarantee is mentioned for Tribulation believers (Rev. 14:12). In fact Rev. 16:15 specifically warns them to stay awake and maintain their righteousness, symbolized by keeping their clothes with them. (Clothing is often used to represent righteousness, as in Isaiah 61:10). Rev. 16:15 implies that Tribulation believers are responsible for remaining steadfast in their faith to avoid losing their salvation. Matt. 25:8 agrees, telling us that all 10 virgins had oil in their lamps at the beginning, but the five foolish ones didn’t have enough to carry them through.
All 10 bridesmaids fell asleep and their lamps were in danger of going out. Only 5 had the ability to replenish their lamps with oil they had brought, and they refused to lend any to the others.
The 5 bridesmaids with oil represent those who will have given their hearts to the Lord during the tribulation period after the Church has gone and stayed faithful, while those without it symbolize others who haven’t. Only those who’ve remained faithful will be invited in.
What’s That Supposed To Mean?
So what does the parable mean? First of all, I’m convinced it’s not trying to hint at the timing of the Rapture. I believe it’s sole purpose is to serve as one of the clearest warnings the Lord ever gave to those He would find still on Earth when He returns, and that’s to make sure they remain faithful and ready to receive Him no matter how long they have to wait.
When the Lord comes back at the End of the Age, He’ll find both believers and unbelievers present on Earth. Having previously spirited His bride (the church) away, He’ll now decide who among the Tribulation survivors should be allowed to participate in the blessings of His Kingdom, using the presence of the Holy Spirit in each one’s life as the determining factor. Those in whom the Spirit resides when He returns are invited in but those without it will be excluded.
Because just as importantly, the parable teaches that His return signals the deadline after which even the request to be saved and receive the Holy Spirit will be denied. (The foolish virgins, as the story calls them, were on their way to replenish their oil when the bridegroom arrived.) The door will be closed, and the Lord will deny ever knowing those who’ve come too late.
By not remaining faithful, these tribulation believers, who are not part of the Church, will have disqualified themselves from participation in the kingdom. Once everyone sees the Lord returning on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory, the opportunity for them to restore their salvation will have ended. Salvation has always been by faith and faith is being sure of what we hope for, and certain of what we do not see (Hebr. 11:1). Selah 3-21-04
https://gracethrufaith.com/topical-studies/parables/the-parable-of-the-ten-virgins/#more-276
Wednesday, January 7th, 2015
A Bible Study by Jack Kelley
“At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. Five of them were foolish and five were wise. The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. The wise, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.
“At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here’s the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’
“Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.’
” ‘No,’ they replied, ‘there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’
“But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.
“Later the others also came. ‘Sir! Sir!’ they said. ‘Open the door for us!’
“But he replied, ‘I tell you the truth, I don’t know you.’
“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour (Matt. 25:1-13).
What’s That All About?
This parable is often incorrectly described as having to do with the church, especially by those who cling to the post-tribulation rapture viewpoint. Let’s apply some standard rules of interpretation to see what it really means.
As for the timing of the event, there’s little debate since it’s clearly disclosed. The opening phrase “At that time” refers to several earlier references in the Olivet Discourse all pointing back to Matthew 24:29 which says, “Immediately after the distress (tribulation) of those days…”
This verse of course refers to the Great Tribulation. It’s a 3 1/2 year long sequence of judgments begun by the appearance of the “abomination that causes desolation, standing in the Holy Place,” commonly thought to be the anti-christ standing in the newly rebuilt Jewish Temple in Israel proclaiming himself to be god. Paul prophesied this in 2 Thes. 2:4.
So the timing of the parable is just after the end of the Great Tribulation, when what’s left of the world awaits the appearance of Messiah, the King. But notice, they’ve been waiting a long time, implying that the story actually began much earlier, and is now concluding.
The parable centers around 10 virgins, or bridesmaids depending on which translation you prefer, awaiting the appearance of a bridegroom. The Greek word is parthenos, which always describes someone who has never had sexual intercourse. The use of the word bridesmaid comes from an attempt by translators to adhere to the context of the story. But in any case, here’s where some knowledge of 1st century Jewish wedding traditions comes in handy.
Can I Marry Her?
In those days when a man took a fancy to a young woman, he approached her father to ask for her hand in marriage. A brief negotiation followed where the price he was required to pay as compensation for the family’s loss of their daughter was determined. It was called the bride price. If acceptable, and if the daughter agreed to become the man’s wife, they were officially betrothed and he went away to build a home for them next to his father’s house. This could take some time, and the couple rarely met again until the father of the groom pronounced the newly built home fit for habitation. Only then was the date set, and the man given permission by his father to go collect his bride for the wedding.
During this time the young woman was to watch and wait. She and her bridesmaids were to maintain a constant state of preparedness, since the wedding date would not be known to her until the bridegroom actually appeared. For his part, the groom would usually try to show up unexpectedly to surprise her, carrying her off suddenly “like a thief in the night” when no one would see them. When the bridesmaids discovered the bride had been “snatched away” there would be a great torch-lit procession, announcing to the whole town that the wedding banquet was about to begin. This was typically a seven day celebration during which the bride and groom were hidden away in their private rooms while the whole town made merry. The father of the groom picked up the tab for the festivities.
I Can See Clearly Now
Against the backdrop of this tradition, the meaning becomes clear when we insert the actual characters that those in the parable represent. To do this, we’ll rely on the principle of expositional constancy, from which we learn that symbolism in scripture tends to be consistent. For example, whenever yeast is used symbolically it always refers to sin, while symbolic use of the word rock always refers to the Lord, etc.
All through the scriptures, whenever the term bridegroom is used symbolically, it always refers to the Lord. And no one argues that the Bride of Christ is uniquely descriptive of the church. Obviously, the bridesmaids are not the Bride so they can’t represent the church. In fact, the Bride is never mentioned anywhere in the parable, and in any case could never be refused admittance to her own wedding banquet. She was obviously spirited away earlier while the bridesmaids slept. The bridesmaids represent people on Earth during the Great Tribulation after the church has gone.
Got Oil?
Now it’s time for the wedding banquet but some bridesmaids lack sufficient oil to light the way. Asking to borrow some from their friends they’re refused, since there might not be enough to go around, and are sent off to buy some for themselves. By the time they return, the banquet has already begun, the door is closed and they’re denied admission, the bridegroom claiming that he doesn’t even know them.
Checking on the symbolic use of oil, we find it refers to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is a gift uniquely given to believers at the moment of salvation. You can’t get it for others nor can they give any of theirs to you. Each of us has to receive it by ourselves and for ourselves.
During the Church Age the Holy Spirit is sealed within believers as a guarantee of our inheritance. But no such guarantee is mentioned for Tribulation believers (Rev. 14:12). In fact Rev. 16:15 specifically warns them to stay awake and maintain their righteousness, symbolized by keeping their clothes with them. (Clothing is often used to represent righteousness, as in Isaiah 61:10). Rev. 16:15 implies that Tribulation believers are responsible for remaining steadfast in their faith to avoid losing their salvation. Matt. 25:8 agrees, telling us that all 10 virgins had oil in their lamps at the beginning, but the five foolish ones didn’t have enough to carry them through.
All 10 bridesmaids fell asleep and their lamps were in danger of going out. Only 5 had the ability to replenish their lamps with oil they had brought, and they refused to lend any to the others.
The 5 bridesmaids with oil represent those who will have given their hearts to the Lord during the tribulation period after the Church has gone and stayed faithful, while those without it symbolize others who haven’t. Only those who’ve remained faithful will be invited in.
What’s That Supposed To Mean?
So what does the parable mean? First of all, I’m convinced it’s not trying to hint at the timing of the Rapture. I believe it’s sole purpose is to serve as one of the clearest warnings the Lord ever gave to those He would find still on Earth when He returns, and that’s to make sure they remain faithful and ready to receive Him no matter how long they have to wait.
When the Lord comes back at the End of the Age, He’ll find both believers and unbelievers present on Earth. Having previously spirited His bride (the church) away, He’ll now decide who among the Tribulation survivors should be allowed to participate in the blessings of His Kingdom, using the presence of the Holy Spirit in each one’s life as the determining factor. Those in whom the Spirit resides when He returns are invited in but those without it will be excluded.
Because just as importantly, the parable teaches that His return signals the deadline after which even the request to be saved and receive the Holy Spirit will be denied. (The foolish virgins, as the story calls them, were on their way to replenish their oil when the bridegroom arrived.) The door will be closed, and the Lord will deny ever knowing those who’ve come too late.
By not remaining faithful, these tribulation believers, who are not part of the Church, will have disqualified themselves from participation in the kingdom. Once everyone sees the Lord returning on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory, the opportunity for them to restore their salvation will have ended. Salvation has always been by faith and faith is being sure of what we hope for, and certain of what we do not see (Hebr. 11:1). Selah 3-21-04
https://gracethrufaith.com/topical-studies/parables/the-parable-of-the-ten-virgins/#more-276
Here's the context:
The Parable Of The Wedding Banquet
Wednesday, February 18th, 2015
A Bible Study by Jack Kelley
Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.
“Then he sent some more servants and said, ‘Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’
“But they paid no attention and went off–one to his field, another to his business. The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.
“Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. Go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’ So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, both good and bad, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.
“But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. ‘Friend,’ he asked, ‘how did you get in here without wedding clothes?’ The man was speechless.
“Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
“For many are invited, but few are chosen.” (Matt 22:1-14)
Why All The Parables?
The Greek word for parable literally means to set alongside. A fictional earthly story is set alongside a heavenly truth to help convey its meaning. When the disciples asked Jesus why He spoke to the people in parables He said,
“The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.” (Matt. 13:11-12)
In effect this means a parable was meant to accomplish two things: 1) to instruct His followers, and 2) to confuse everyone else. These seemingly conflicting objectives can both be accomplished because it’s the Holy Spirit who gives us the understanding we need. Without the Holy Spirit no one can comprehend the things of God. Paul put it this way;
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Cor. 2:14)
The parable of the wedding banquet is a good example. It’s either very instructive or very confusing depending on your understanding of the Bible. (A working knowledge of Jewish wedding customs during Biblical times can also be helpful but is not essential.)
The Wedding Planner
First century Jewish wedding customs held that the father of the groom was in charge of the event and bore all the expense associated with the wedding and the banquet that followed. I’ve been told this included providing a specially made garment for guests, to be worn over a guest’s regular clothing. This wedding garment was presented to the guest upon arrival and donned immediately. Refusal to wear it was an insult to the Father of the groom and could get a guest ejected from the festivities (Source: https://www.bible-history.com/biblestudy/marriage.html).
As I said, the Parables of our Lord Jesus are earthly stories meant to explain heavenly truths. Each person or object is symbolic of someone or something else. Understanding the symbolism is crucial to discovering the lesson of the Parable. In fact receiving the full theological impact of a parable requires such an understanding.
The King represents God the Father, His Son our Lord Jesus. Invited guests who declined His invitation symbolize Israel’s rejection of the Messiah and the servants He sent to invite them are the prophets. The city He destroyed is Jerusalem, and the wedding banquet is the Kingdom of Heaven. This puts the timing of the parable at the Second Coming.
Do You Know The Bride?
Some say the last group He sent His servants out to invite represents the Church, but the symbolism and timing are wrong. The Church is the Bride of Christ (Ephes. 5:25-27), not a group of last minute substitute guests. Since Israel had already declined His invitation, and the Church (being the bride) would not need an invitation, who could these guests be?
They have to come from a time after the Bride is chosen and prepared, because the wedding banquet is ready and only the guests are lacking for the festivities to begin. Therefore, they can only be from a group we call Tribulation believers, those who come to faith after the Rapture of the Church in Revelation 4 but before the Wedding Banquet of Revelation 19.
Here’s The Real Lesson Of The Parable
The wedding garment represents God’s righteousness. This is a concept explained on several occasions in both the Old and New Testaments. Isaiah described our righteousness as filthy rags (Isa 64:6) and God’s righteousness as “garments of salvation” and “robes of righteousness” (Isa 61:10) where the acquisition of these qualities is likened to clothing given us at a wedding.
I delight greatly in the Lord; my soul rejoices in my God. For he has clothed me with garments of salvation and arrayed me in a robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom adorns his head like a priest, and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels (Isa 61:10).
In Revelation 19 the church has been prepared as a bride having been clothed in white linen, representing our righteousness. But as in Isaiah 61:10, the righteousness symbolized by the clothing is given to the bride, not purchased or earned. Paul said that ours is a righteousness that comes to us through faith (Romans 3:21-22).
The fact that a guest is thrown out into the darkness for not wearing wedding clothes indicates these last minute guests are required to be clothed in “garments of salvation” as well. Rev. 16:15 tells us Tribulation believers will have to “keep their clothes with them.” In other words they’ll be responsible for maintaining the righteousness they will have been given by obeying God’s commandments and remaining faithful to Jesus (Rev. 14:12). Only the Church has been promised the gift of eternal security.
Therefore the guest who was escorted out had been a Tribulation believer who was now trying to gain entrance to the banquet in his own clothing, having lost or discarded the “garment of salvation” he’d been given. He was hoping to gain entrance to the kingdom in his own righteousness, which as Isaiah said, is like filthy rags in God’s sight.
This is another slant on the parable of the 10 bridesmaids (Matt. 25:1-13). The setting there is also the time of the 2nd Coming. And again, the Church is not a bridesmaid. The Church is the bride and could not be refused admittance to her own wedding banquet. The five who were excluded were tribulation believers who had lost their salvation either by not obeying God’s commandments or by not remaining faithful to Jesus or both. This is indicated by their lack of sufficient oil, which is symbolic of the Holy Spirit. Since the Holy Spirit is sealed within the Church as a deposit guaranteeing our salvation (Ephes 1:13-14), the bridesmaids who were excluded from the banquet have to represent a post rapture group from whom the Holy Spirit had departed after a lapse of faith.
Many are invited, but few are chosen (Matt 22:1-14). God doesn’t desire that any should perish, but that all would come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9). But whether it’s the Bride or the wedding guests, the only righteousness that gains us admission into His presence is that which is given us as a gift and accepted in faith (Rom 3:21-22). All of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ (Gal 3:27). For God made Him Who had no sin to become sin for us, that in Him we might become the righteousness of God (2 Cor 5:21). Selah 05-19-12.
https://gracethrufaith.com/topical-studies/parables/the-parable-of-the-wedding-banquet/
acceptedinthebeloved
Well-Known Member
Perhaps he's saying what Jack Kelley is saying (and I agree, as do many scholars)... that "the wedding supper" [Matt 22; Matt 25] is the Millennial Kingdom [at least, the initial part of it]... which occurs on the earth after His Second Coming to the earth (... those who are not the Bride [i.e. the Church/body of Christ] are [after the rapture, which they missed because they weren't saved beforehand] still [will be] "invited/called" to "the wedding supper" [i.e. earthly MK]... some will accept/believe, while others will reject/disregard His Word).
That's what it sounds like he's saying, to me...
That's what it sounds like he's saying, to me...
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No, the wedding Supper is not in the MK. Here's the conservative view:
When Does The Wedding Supper Happen?
Sunday, February 5th, 2012
Q. I’ve run into a problem with the timing of the Wedding supper and Matt 26:29. Rev 19:9 is kind of vague, coming as it does with the return of Christ with His bride verses in chapter 19. But the bigger issue is what is meant by “…when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom,” in reference to the 4th cup of wine, the wedding feast cup.
A. The 4th cup of the Passover is the cup of acceptance, and symbolizes the Lord’s statement in Exodus 6:7 “I will take you as my own people and I will be your God.” I’m not familiar with any Biblical teaching that compares the wedding cup to the 4th Cup of Passover. Jesus interrupted the Passover celebration at the Last Supper to say He would not drink wine again until He drank it with us in the Kingdom. But the last thing He did before dying was to drink a sip of wine. John said He did this knowing that all was completed and so the Scripture would be fulfilled (John 19:28-30). I believe He was drinking the 4th cup of the Passover, saying that for all who believed He would take us as His own people and would be our God.
He wasn’t marrying us at that time, He was paying the so-called Bride price which would qualify Him to marry us later. Both tradition and logic dictate the marriage will take place immediately following the rapture. Then we will spend the 7 year bride week with Him while Daniel’s 70th Week plays out on Earth. Otherwise the honeymoon would precede the wedding. According to Rev. 19 the wedding banquet will take place in Heaven just before the Lord returns to establish His Kingdom on Earth.
acceptedinthebeloved
Well-Known Member
From your post #14 [now located at post #10], Jack Kelley said:
I took the liberty of bolding the pertinent portions... to this discussion.
Where he says "the guest who was escorted out" he is referring to Matt 22.
A number of scholars believe "the wedding supper" to be the equivalent of the earthly Millennial Kingdom [looking for my list now...]
I took the liberty of bolding the pertinent portions... to this discussion.
Where he says "the guest who was escorted out" he is referring to Matt 22.
A number of scholars believe "the wedding supper" to be the equivalent of the earthly Millennial Kingdom [looking for my list now...]
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What is the marriage supper of the Lamb?
Question: "What is the marriage supper of the Lamb?"
Answer: In his vision in Revelation 19:7–10, John saw and heard the heavenly multitudes praising God because the wedding feast of the Lamb—literally, the “marriage supper”—was about to begin. The concept of the marriage supper is better understood in light of the wedding customs in the time of Christ.
These wedding customs had three major parts. First, a marriage contract was signed by the parents of the bride and the bridegroom, and the parents of the bridegroom or the bridegroom himself would pay a dowry to the bride or her parents. This began what was called the betrothal period—what we would today call the engagement. This period was the one Joseph and Mary were in when she was found to be with child (Matthew 1:18; Luke 2:5).
The second step in the process usually occurred a year later, when the bridegroom, accompanied by his male friends, went to the house of the bride at midnight, creating a torchlight parade through the streets. The bride would know in advance this was going to take place, and so she would be ready with her maidens, and they would all join the parade and end up at the bridegroom’s home. This custom is the basis of the parable of the ten virgins in Matthew 25:1–13. The third phase was the marriage supper itself, which might go on for days, as illustrated by the wedding at Cana in John 2:1–2.
What John’s vision in Revelation pictures is the wedding feast of the Lamb (Jesus Christ) and His bride (the Church) in its third phase. The implication is that the first two phases have already taken place. The first phase was completed on earth when each individual believer placed his or her faith in Christ as Savior. The dowry paid to the bridegroom’s parent (God the Father) would be the blood of Christ shed on the Bride’s behalf. The Church on earth today, then, is “betrothed” to Christ, and, like the wise virgins in the parable, all believers should be watching and waiting for the appearance of the Bridegroom (the Second Coming). The second phase symbolizes the rapture of the Church, when Christ comes to claim His bride and take her to the Father’s house. The marriage supper then follows as the third and final step. It is our view that the marriage supper of the Lamb takes place in heaven between the rapture and the second coming (during the tribulation on earth).
Attending the wedding feast will be not only the Church as the Bride of Christ, but others as well. The “others” include the Old Testament saints—they will not have been resurrected yet, but their souls/spirits will be in heaven with us. As the angel told John to write, “Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb” (Revelation 19:9). The marriage supper of the Lamb is a glorious celebration of all who are in Christ!
http://www.gotquestions.org/marriage-supper-Lamb.html
Question: "What is the marriage supper of the Lamb?"
Answer: In his vision in Revelation 19:7–10, John saw and heard the heavenly multitudes praising God because the wedding feast of the Lamb—literally, the “marriage supper”—was about to begin. The concept of the marriage supper is better understood in light of the wedding customs in the time of Christ.
These wedding customs had three major parts. First, a marriage contract was signed by the parents of the bride and the bridegroom, and the parents of the bridegroom or the bridegroom himself would pay a dowry to the bride or her parents. This began what was called the betrothal period—what we would today call the engagement. This period was the one Joseph and Mary were in when she was found to be with child (Matthew 1:18; Luke 2:5).
The second step in the process usually occurred a year later, when the bridegroom, accompanied by his male friends, went to the house of the bride at midnight, creating a torchlight parade through the streets. The bride would know in advance this was going to take place, and so she would be ready with her maidens, and they would all join the parade and end up at the bridegroom’s home. This custom is the basis of the parable of the ten virgins in Matthew 25:1–13. The third phase was the marriage supper itself, which might go on for days, as illustrated by the wedding at Cana in John 2:1–2.
What John’s vision in Revelation pictures is the wedding feast of the Lamb (Jesus Christ) and His bride (the Church) in its third phase. The implication is that the first two phases have already taken place. The first phase was completed on earth when each individual believer placed his or her faith in Christ as Savior. The dowry paid to the bridegroom’s parent (God the Father) would be the blood of Christ shed on the Bride’s behalf. The Church on earth today, then, is “betrothed” to Christ, and, like the wise virgins in the parable, all believers should be watching and waiting for the appearance of the Bridegroom (the Second Coming). The second phase symbolizes the rapture of the Church, when Christ comes to claim His bride and take her to the Father’s house. The marriage supper then follows as the third and final step. It is our view that the marriage supper of the Lamb takes place in heaven between the rapture and the second coming (during the tribulation on earth).
Attending the wedding feast will be not only the Church as the Bride of Christ, but others as well. The “others” include the Old Testament saints—they will not have been resurrected yet, but their souls/spirits will be in heaven with us. As the angel told John to write, “Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb” (Revelation 19:9). The marriage supper of the Lamb is a glorious celebration of all who are in Christ!
http://www.gotquestions.org/marriage-supper-Lamb.html
acceptedinthebeloved
Well-Known Member
I would consider Fruchtenbaum, Walvoord, McClain, Pentecost, Hindson (and possibly Robt Dean, if I recall [edit: confirmed this]) to be "conservative, fundamental, and sound teachers" (I agree with much of what they teach).
[I'm not sure how all of the above showed up there automatically...
...but...]
... I will add, Thomas Ice also teaches this. (There may be others I'm not remembering right now... but all of these are reputable [pre-trib] scholars.)
And Jack Kelley, in his wording of post #14 [which is now located at post #10], seems also to be saying this same thing.
(and this is what I perceived the poster [quoted by Chris] to be saying as well)
Thanks, Chris.
[I'm not sure how all of the above showed up there automatically...
...but...]... I will add, Thomas Ice also teaches this. (There may be others I'm not remembering right now... but all of these are reputable [pre-trib] scholars.)
And Jack Kelley, in his wording of post #14 [which is now located at post #10], seems also to be saying this same thing.
(and this is what I perceived the poster [quoted by Chris] to be saying as well)
Thanks, Chris.
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RandallB
Well-Known Member
Disagree. Really confused as to how that view is called "conservative".
Walvood, Dr Ice, Dr Fruchtenbaum, and Lambert Dolphin also disagree with that view.
They all agree that the Wedding Supper of the Lamb occurs:
a) after the 2nd Coming,
b) on the earth,
c) at the beginning of the Millennial Kingdom.
John Walvoord:
Rev 19:9 points to a future Banquet. Not one that has already occurred before the 2nd Coming. The Wedding itself is declared to have already come (in the past to Rev 19:7).
Dr Ice agrees and states:
Dr Fruchtenbaum agrees and says:
Matt 26:29 points out that the Lord will not drink wine until He drinks it with us in the Kingdom. Would He really have a Wedding Feast in heaven without wine? The example He demonstrated on earth says --> Nope.
Dr Ice further states:
Lambert Dolphin also agrees in his article THE MARRIAGE SUPPER OF THE LAMB
Those that are invited to the Wedding Supper are called Blessed in Rev 19:9. Dan 12:12 states: And blessed are those who wait and remain until the end of the 1,335 days.
Matt 25:1-13 demonstrates that the Bridegroom (after the Wedding in Heaven) collects the surviving Trib Saints (5 Bride's Maids) (The Sheep) on the way to the Banquet.
So it looks like those that make it to the 1,335th day (the Sheep) will be invited into the Kingdom (as mortals) and will also be among those that are Blessed at the Wedding Supper along with the OT Saints & resurrected Trib Saints & the Bride.
So to recap:
Rapture, Going from earth to Heaven, Meeting the Lord in the air
In Heaven:
Bema Seat, White Linen Righteous Clothes, Wedding of the Lamb/Church
Blessing of Future Banquet attendees.
Darkening of Sun/Moon, Sign of Christ's Coming in the Sky, Mourning of the Nations
Coming from Heaven to Earth (Christ's 2nd Coming)
Petra/Winepress, Mt of Olives/Splitting Cravis (sans Pumas), Cleansing of Temple, Sheep/Goats
Resurrection of OT Saints/Tribulation Saints
Beginning of Millennial Kingdom
Wedding Feast of the Lamb ( Blessed Invited guests are OT/Trib Resurrected Saints and Trib Believing Survivors) -- Jesus drinks wine and fulfills Matt 26:29
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RandallB
Well-Known Member
Then a voice came from the throne, saying: “Praise our God, all you his servants, you who fear him, both small and great!”
Then I heard what sounded like a great multitude, like the roar of rushing waters and like loud peals of thunder, shouting: “Hallelujah! For our Lord God Almighty reigns. Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready. Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.” (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of the saints.)
Then the angel said to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!’ ” And he added, “These are the true words of God.”
At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” (Rev 19:5-10)
From the use of past tense verbs referring to the wedding, the bride and the clothing she was given, it looks like John’s describing an event that has already taken place, and indeed it will have, seven years earlier. Notice that while the clothing represents the bride’s righteousness, it’s not her clothing. It was given to her. We’re not righteous by our own works. Our righteousness is given to us by the Lord. (2 Corinth. 5:21) The Greek word literally means righteousness rather than righteous acts. Our righteousness is imputed to us by faith alone (Romans 3:21-22).
Isaiah 61:10 describes this scene more clearly. I delight greatly in the LORD; my soul rejoices in my God. For he has clothed me with garments of salvation and arrayed me in a robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom adorns his head like a priest, and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.
When John changes to the present tense in speaking of those invited to the Wedding Supper, he’s making reference to believing Tribulation Survivors on Earth, soon to be invited into the Kingdom as described in the parable of the 10 virgins. (Matt. 25:1-13) The Church is the Bride, and the Bride is not a bunch of invited guests, nor even a group of bridesmaids. Like the Church, she’s one body. And she doesn’t need an invitation to her own wedding banquet, because she’s the main attraction. Without her there wouldn’t be a banquet.
Then I heard what sounded like a great multitude, like the roar of rushing waters and like loud peals of thunder, shouting: “Hallelujah! For our Lord God Almighty reigns. Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready. Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.” (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of the saints.)
Then the angel said to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!’ ” And he added, “These are the true words of God.”
At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” (Rev 19:5-10)
From the use of past tense verbs referring to the wedding, the bride and the clothing she was given, it looks like John’s describing an event that has already taken place, and indeed it will have, seven years earlier. Notice that while the clothing represents the bride’s righteousness, it’s not her clothing. It was given to her. We’re not righteous by our own works. Our righteousness is given to us by the Lord. (2 Corinth. 5:21) The Greek word literally means righteousness rather than righteous acts. Our righteousness is imputed to us by faith alone (Romans 3:21-22).
Isaiah 61:10 describes this scene more clearly. I delight greatly in the LORD; my soul rejoices in my God. For he has clothed me with garments of salvation and arrayed me in a robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom adorns his head like a priest, and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.
When John changes to the present tense in speaking of those invited to the Wedding Supper, he’s making reference to believing Tribulation Survivors on Earth, soon to be invited into the Kingdom as described in the parable of the 10 virgins. (Matt. 25:1-13) The Church is the Bride, and the Bride is not a bunch of invited guests, nor even a group of bridesmaids. Like the Church, she’s one body. And she doesn’t need an invitation to her own wedding banquet, because she’s the main attraction. Without her there wouldn’t be a banquet.
When Does The Wedding Supper Happen?
Sunday, February 5th, 2012
Q. I’ve run into a problem with the timing of the Wedding supper and Matt 26:29. Rev 19:9 is kind of vague, coming as it does with the return of Christ with His bride verses in chapter 19. But the bigger issue is what is meant by “…when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom,” in reference to the 4th cup of wine, the wedding feast cup.
A. The 4th cup of the Passover is the cup of acceptance, and symbolizes the Lord’s statement in Exodus 6:7 “I will take you as my own people and I will be your God.” I’m not familiar with any Biblical teaching that compares the wedding cup to the 4th Cup of Passover. Jesus interrupted the Passover celebration at the Last Supper to say He would not drink wine again until He drank it with us in the Kingdom. But the last thing He did before dying was to drink a sip of wine. John said He did this knowing that all was completed and so the Scripture would be fulfilled (John 19:28-30). I believe He was drinking the 4th cup of the Passover, saying that for all who believed He would take us as His own people and would be our God.
He wasn’t marrying us at that time, He was paying the so-called Bride price which would qualify Him to marry us later. Both tradition and logic dictate the marriage will take place immediately following the rapture. Then we will spend the 7 year bride week with Him while Daniel’s 70th Week plays out on Earth. Otherwise the honeymoon would precede the wedding. According to Rev. 19 the wedding banquet will take place in Heaven just before the Lord returns to establish His Kingdom on Earth.
Sunday, February 5th, 2012
Q. I’ve run into a problem with the timing of the Wedding supper and Matt 26:29. Rev 19:9 is kind of vague, coming as it does with the return of Christ with His bride verses in chapter 19. But the bigger issue is what is meant by “…when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom,” in reference to the 4th cup of wine, the wedding feast cup.
A. The 4th cup of the Passover is the cup of acceptance, and symbolizes the Lord’s statement in Exodus 6:7 “I will take you as my own people and I will be your God.” I’m not familiar with any Biblical teaching that compares the wedding cup to the 4th Cup of Passover. Jesus interrupted the Passover celebration at the Last Supper to say He would not drink wine again until He drank it with us in the Kingdom. But the last thing He did before dying was to drink a sip of wine. John said He did this knowing that all was completed and so the Scripture would be fulfilled (John 19:28-30). I believe He was drinking the 4th cup of the Passover, saying that for all who believed He would take us as His own people and would be our God.
He wasn’t marrying us at that time, He was paying the so-called Bride price which would qualify Him to marry us later. Both tradition and logic dictate the marriage will take place immediately following the rapture. Then we will spend the 7 year bride week with Him while Daniel’s 70th Week plays out on Earth. Otherwise the honeymoon would precede the wedding. According to Rev. 19 the wedding banquet will take place in Heaven just before the Lord returns to establish His Kingdom on Earth.
Also, remember, the Lord will be in Jerusalem on the throne of David ruling over the Earth in the MK. The bride will be in the New Jerusalem. I see no reason to believe that the wedding supper is going to take place on still infested Earth in the MK. I believe it will take place in Heaven where the bride is during the 7 year tribulation. And that is where Jesus will be at that time. The marriage of the lamb happens right after the rapture. To fit this marriage supper in the MK, the bride will have to wait 7 years for her marriage banquet?? Really?? I really don't think so.
The most logic conclusion is that the bride is raptured, the marriage of the lamb takes place, the marriage supper takes place, the honeymoon, etc. and then followed by the return of Jesus and the bride for his big win at Armageddon and throwing the AC and FP in the lake of fire. Then the Lord will move on to ruling as King of Kings from the throne of David in Jerusalem during the MK. That seems to follow as Jack says with the tradition and logic that the marriage will take place immediately after the rapture. Just like marriages today, the supper or reception (food eating, etc.) happens immediately after the wedding. Then honeymoon, etc. That will happen during the 7 year tribulation period while all Hell is breaking loose on Earth.
The most logic conclusion is that the bride is raptured, the marriage of the lamb takes place, the marriage supper takes place, the honeymoon, etc. and then followed by the return of Jesus and the bride for his big win at Armageddon and throwing the AC and FP in the lake of fire. Then the Lord will move on to ruling as King of Kings from the throne of David in Jerusalem during the MK. That seems to follow as Jack says with the tradition and logic that the marriage will take place immediately after the rapture. Just like marriages today, the supper or reception (food eating, etc.) happens immediately after the wedding. Then honeymoon, etc. That will happen during the 7 year tribulation period while all Hell is breaking loose on Earth.
