Our National Debt

InsuranceGuy

Well-Known Member
I have been doing a lot of reading lately and it was in my head to read more about our national deficit. I wanted a better understanding of how it came to be and the potential consequences down the line. Of our $22 Trillion in debt, only $6.2 Trillion is owed to other Nations. The rest is from raiding Social Security, Pensions offering bonds, etc. etc. The scariest part of what I have read is that not just many, but most, Politicians consider the national debt to be something that is completely overblown and do not see it as an issue. After all, it's only the American people that would suffer, and certainly not the 1%.

What does this mean? It means there will be no stopping the increasing debt. Once you realize the only money that "has" to be repaid is the $6.2 Trillion owed to other countries, it becomes a scary scenario. By 2034, Social Security will have to decrease payments by 34% across the board to stay afloat. It became amazingly clear the National Deficit we hear about all the time is an illusion of sorts. The illusion is that is "must" be repaid or that the spending "must" slow down. At any time, the Government could simply default on the "loans". I put that in quotations because Social Security is YOUR money, not theirs. How can it be a loan if the American Taxpayer didn't get to vote on whether or not it should "loaned"? I'm sort of wondering now if the debt doesn't cause the nation to crumble internally. Federal Retirement Funds were raided and the money was "loaned" to the Govt. I had never thought of this before, but I'm sure some of you probably have. There could come a day when there is no Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Federal Retirement plans are gone, Military retirements are wiped out and spending on the Military completely stops. Nothing could be done about it.

The debt will continue to increase, at substantial rates because we do not owe that much to foreign nations. https://www.thebalance.com/who-owns-the-u-s-national-debt-3306124 This is why Politicians do not want a balanced budget amendment, or even worry about the debt like they should. When this house of cards comes crashing down, it will be only US that suffer. Us not repaying China only $1.12 Trillion isn't going to make a difference to their economy. Only a small handful of nations are owed money, and none is significant enough to make a difference in the global economy. The US Citizens though could wake up in ten years and find there is not a dollar left for retirement, schools, healthcare, the military and so on.

Anyway, my fear at one time was a global economic slowdown or recession if the USA ever defaulted on the loans. No. It's far worse. The only people that would suffer are the people living here today. We've all heard the expression of someone robbing Peter to pay Paul. Well, what happens when both have been robbed? This scenario just made me think we fall internally, and not because of an attack or due to another nation.
 

Kem

Citizen
I put that in quotations because Social Security is YOUR money, not theirs. How can it be a loan if the American Taxpayer didn't get to vote on whether or not it should "loaned"?
Yes and the reason I believe, is that the desired outcome of the left is to greatly reduce the population. They feel that the elderly and the unborn are good places to make strong cuts. Naturally many of the elderly would then die because they could not manage to house or feed themselves much less afford any kind of health care.
 

twerpv

Well-Known Member
I’m not downplaying the debt issue at all. Personally, I feel it’s a moral issue as much as it is a financial one. However, think about it this way. Where did all that ‘money’ go? It doesn’t just disappear. A product or service was offered and paid for. Someone received that money. They have to do something with it. Spend it or loan it (through investments or even savings). Which circulated that money back into the economy. I don’t think the problem (financially) is how large the amount is. I think the problem is who controls all of it.
 

Endangered

Well-Known Member
Way back in the late 1960's social security had its own trust fund and was separate from the national budget. Then LBJ decided he needed to spend more to kick off the "Great Society" and, with both houses of Congress controlled by the Dems, he pulled Soc Sec out if its own fund and put it into the national budget. The funds accumulated in the Soc Sec trust were promptly spent. All so he could start the welfare society and guarantee votes for the Dems.
Thanks a lot, LBJ !!!
 

antitox

Well-Known Member
Way back in the late 1960's social security had its own trust fund and was separate from the national budget. Then LBJ decided he needed to spend more to kick off the "Great Society" and, with both houses of Congress controlled by the Dems, he pulled Soc Sec out if its own fund and put it into the national budget. The funds accumulated in the Soc Sec trust were promptly spent. All so he could start the welfare society and guarantee votes for the Dems.
Thanks a lot, LBJ !!!
That's where it all went down. My Dad complained about it often. We have people in office that LOVE other people's money. That's the problem.
 

Cindy S.

When he comes, will he find faith? Luke 18:8
Way back in the late 1960's social security had its own trust fund and was separate from the national budget. Then LBJ decided he needed to spend more to kick off the "Great Society" and, with both houses of Congress controlled by the Dems, he pulled Soc Sec out if its own fund and put it into the national budget. The funds accumulated in the Soc Sec trust were promptly spent. All so he could start the welfare society and guarantee votes for the Dems.
Thanks a lot, LBJ !!!
I'm disgusted that social security is being used for other than what it was intended for. For instance, paying benefits to working age adults who are "depressed". Everything is a disability these days.
 

InsuranceGuy

Well-Known Member
I’m not downplaying the debt issue at all. Personally, I feel it’s a moral issue as much as it is a financial one. However, think about it this way. Where did all that ‘money’ go? It doesn’t just disappear. A product or service was offered and paid for. Someone received that money. They have to do something with it. Spend it or loan it (through investments or even savings). Which circulated that money back into the economy. I don’t think the problem (financially) is how large the amount is. I think the problem is who controls all of it.
The article details where the money went. The vast majority went on Military spending, loaning other nations money (from YOUR social security!) and healthcare. The healthcare costs were not what you would likely think though. The healthcare money went on mostly Medicaid for families who did not have healthcare and their related costs. How many of those were for illegals? There is no statistic I can find on that, but knowing money will be denied to our Seniors later on because we are assisting other countries with their issues is rather disgusting. Very little of the national debt has been offered as a product or service. Four wars are listed as taking up the vast majority of the money. There is no return rate on Afghanistan and Iran wars. No good were sold and no product was created and/or sold. Same can be said for healthcare. If we are paying for Medicaid (or whichever one pays for the kids) for illegals, how should we feel? Everyone deserves healthcare, but blatantly ripping off our own tax paying citizens is wrong. Many Seniors today cannot afford proper healthcare. Many can barely afford to live at all. Giving ANY of their money away to pay for a non-citizen is not right, at least not without their consent.
 

Kem

Citizen
Spend it or loan it (through investments or even savings). Which circulated that money back into the economy.
Sadly not so much into our national economy but given by the previous administration to Muslim countries as "aid". Also into the pockets of government officials. But that still isn't the main problem, the US dollar is the world reserve currency but probably not for much longer as many large nations are moving away from the dollar into gold or other currencies such as the Euro. When that becomes the norm, the US will have to start paying back debt to other countries with other than the dollar. Likely this will cause our inflation rate to skyrocket as we begin to print more and more money which will be worth less and less. I'm sure my explanation is much too simplistic but I am trying to condense some of what I have read in various articles.
 
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twerpv

Well-Known Member
The article details where the money went. The vast majority went on Military spending, loaning other nations money (from YOUR social security!) and healthcare. The healthcare costs were not what you would likely think though. The healthcare money went on mostly Medicaid for families who did not have healthcare and their related costs. How many of those were for illegals? There is no statistic I can find on that, but knowing money will be denied to our Seniors later on because we are assisting other countries with their issues is rather disgusting. Very little of the national debt has been offered as a product or service. Four wars are listed as taking up the vast majority of the money. There is no return rate on Afghanistan and Iran wars. No good were sold and no product was created and/or sold. Same can be said for healthcare. If we are paying for Medicaid (or whichever one pays for the kids) for illegals, how should we feel? Everyone deserves healthcare, but blatantly ripping off our own tax paying citizens is wrong. Many Seniors today cannot afford proper healthcare. Many can barely afford to live at all. Giving ANY of their money away to pay for a non-citizen is not right, at least not without their consent.
EVERY dollar went to a product or service. I’m not saying it was wisely spent. “Wars”? That is not a product or service. Guns, ammo, fuel, food, contract soldiers are where the money goes. As far as how much has left our country into others, it would be a fraction of the debt. Crappy policy and money NOT well spent to be sure. Again, it doesn’t disappear. It goes somewhere.
Healthcare is a service. Drs., nurses, et al are paid. Medicine is purchased, equipment is used. Leases are paid. All to someone or some company. Again, I’ll spent on the ‘wrong’ people? Sure. But spent nonetheless.
Like I said, who is controlling it and where it is spent is the larger problem. IMO
 

twerpv

Well-Known Member
Sadly not so much into our national economy but given by the previous administration to Muslim countries as "aid". Also into the pockets of government officials. But that still isn't the main problem, the US dollar is the world reserve currency but probably not for much longer as many large nations are moving away from the dollar into gold or other currencies such as the Euro. When that becomes the norm, the US will have to start paying back debt to other countries with other than the dollar. Likely this will cause our inflation rate to skyrocket as we begin to print more and more money which will be worth less and less. I'm sure my explanation is much too simplistic but I am trying to condense some of what I have read in various articles.
None of the currencies you listed are going to replace the US$. As bad as our debt is, other countries are worse. They are way less stable and way less dependable. Unless and until another country drives an economy like the US’s, the US$ will continue to reign.
 

Carl

Well-Known Member
The National Debt

If one looks at the fiscal condition of the United States since it's founding what do we see? There are two kinds of occurrences that seem to be tied to the National Debt. These occurrences are a charter allowing a private bank to issue the currency. The second occurrence is war.

It doesn't matter what congress or the president say about which party is causing the debt. It is not the party in power that is directly responsible for the debt. If one looks at the records since 1900 it will be noticed that both parties have had their turn with congress and the president being all one party or mixed.

There have been three Federal Banks in the history of the United States. The first bank was chartered in 1791 to 1811. When the charter ran out and Congress failed to renew the charter the England started to harass our merchant ships. Which led to the war of 1812.

The second bank's charter was ratified in 1819 for another 20 years. In this time period there were two panics( (actually depressions). Out of the 20 years that the charter ran the bank caused 11 years of depressions. So our reward for granting the right were fiscal problems and misery for the citizens.

The head of the Federal banks has always been The Bank of England, owned and operated by members of the Rothschild family. As Andrew Jackson called them a den of vipers. Two quotes from the family pretty much sums up what they do to make money. Two of the Rothschild have said, “I don't care what puppet rules the country, I control the country because I control the money.” The other worthwhile quote is from one of the Rothschild's wives was “If I had no sons there would be no wars.”

While the United States was negotiating with England over the harassment of our merchant ships they were assembling 10,000 battle hardened troops in Jamaica to invade their real objective of New Orleans. However the United States found out about it and sent Andrew Jackson to intercept them. Andrew Jackson with 5000 Tennessee riflemen, Kentucky riflemen and Indian friends arrived to beat them off. The English general in command had prepared a treaty that would give the Louisiana Purchase back to Spain. However the plot did not work as our General Jackson was victorious and he sent the English general back to England in a keg of whiskey..

The Civil war was caused by agents from England and France stirring up trouble in the South and sabotage in the North. The English and the French assembled an army in Mexico in violation of the Monroe Doctrine as an insult. President Lincoln sent an appeal to the Russian Tsar for help. The Tsar weighed the envelop and told his adviser that whatever President asked for he would get. The Russians immediately sent the majority of their Navy to New York, San Francisco and New Orleans with notification to the English and the French that an attack on the north would be an attack on Russia. The reason for this help was that the Tsar of Russian was having trouble with the Bank of England too! However the Rothschild made money from the Civil Was as the Bank of England loaned money to the North and the Bank of France loaned money to the South.

After the unsuccessful attempt to divide the United States the Bank of England continued to cause economic hardship with recessions and depressions that lasted until 1901. The pressure and intrigues continued until the Charter for the Federal Bank was ratified on December 24, 1911, This charter is for 100 years..The Morgans the

Congressman Charles Lindbergh put his finger firmly on the truth when he stated, just after the 'Federal' Reserve Act was passed by a depleted Congress on December 23, 1913: "The Act establishes the most gigantic trust on earth. When the President [Wilson] signs this Bill, the invisible government of the monetary power will be legalized....The greatest crime of the ages is perpetrated by this banking and currency bill." After the charter was approved by Congress and ratified by President Wilson WWI started and then a recession. President Wilson then commented, “I have ruined my country”. P.S. President Wilson's campaign funds came from the large New York banks which are the American branches of the Bank of England.

Of further note there have been four presidents that have resisted the Bank of England and issued official United States Money. Presidents Jackson, Lincoln, Garfield, and Kennedy, each of them was assassinated or the attempt was made and failed.

1835: President Andrew Jackson (the 7th President of the United States from 1829 to 1837) starts depositing federal funds into banks directed by democratic bankers rather than in the Rothschild controlled Bank of the United States. An assassination attempt is made on President Jackson and he would later claim that he knew the Rothschilds were responsible for that attempted assassination, and he further states that God saved him..

History reveals that the Rothschilds were heavily involved in financing both sides in the Civil War. Lincoln put a damper on their activities when, in 1862 and 1863, he refused to pay the exorbitant rates of interest demanded by the Rothschilds and issued constitutionally-authorized, interest free United States notes. For this and other acts of patriotism Lincoln was shot down in cold-blood by John Wilkes Booth on April 14, 1865, just five days after Lee surrendered to Grant at Appomattox Court House, Virginia.

Booth's grand-daughter, Izola Forrester, states in This One Mad Act that Lincoln's assassin had been in close contact with mysterious Europeans prior to the slaying, and had made at least one trip to Europe. Following the killing, Booth was whisked away to safety by members of the Knights of the Golden Circle. According to the author, Booth lived for many years following his disappearance.

1881: President James A. Garfield (The 20th President of the United States who lasted only 100 Days) states two weeks before he was assassinated, “Whoever controls the volume of money in our country is absolute master of all industry and commerce…and when you realize that the entire system is very easily controlled, one way or another, by a few powerful men at the top, you will not have to be told how periods of inflation and depression originate.”

1963: On June 4th President John F. Kennedy (the 35th President of the United States 1961 – 1963) signs Executive Order 11110 which returned to the U.S. government the power to issue currency, without going through the Rosthchilds owned Federal Reserve.

Less than 6 months later on November 22nd, president Kennedy is assassinated by the Rothschilds for the same reason as they assassinated President Abraham Lincoln in 1865, he wanted to print American money for the American people, as oppose to for the benefit of a money grabbing war mongering foreign elite. This Executive Order 11110, is rescinded by President Lyndon Baines Johnson (the 36th President of the United States 1963 to 1969) on Air Force One from Dallas to Washington, the same day as President Kennedy was assassinated.

Virtually every war that has happened since the 1700s has been created by the Rothschilds. Most of the economic problems of the world that have occurred in this time period has the Rothschild's fingerprint on them.

Prior to the war on terrorism there were 7 countries that were not represented by a Rothschild bank. These were Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, North Korea; Sudan; Cuba; and Libya. Now there are 4.

Now on to the good stuff.

In 1773, Mayer summoned twelve wealthy men to Frankfort and asked them to pool their resources, then presented the 25-point plan that would enable them to gain control of the wealth, natural resources and manpower of the entire world.
Those 25 points are:
1. Use violence and terrorism rather than academic discussions.
2. Preach “Liberalism” to usurp political power.
3. Initiate class warfare.
4. Politicians must be cunning and deceptive – any moral code leaves a politician vulnerable.
5. Dismantle “existing forces of order and regulation.” Reconstruct all existing institutions.”
6. Remain invisible until the very moment when it has gained such strength that no cunning or force can undermine it.
7. Use Mob Psychology to control the masses. “Without absolute despotism one cannot rule efficiently.”
8. Advocate the use of alcoholic liquors, drugs, moral corruption and all forms of vice, used systematically by “agenteurs” to corrupt the youth.
9. Seize properties by any means to secure submission and sovereignty.
10. Foment wars and control the peace conferences so that neither of the combatants gains territory placing them further in debt and therefore into our power.
11. Choose candidates for public office who will be “servile and obedient to our commands, so they may be readily used as pawns in our game.”
12. Use the Press for propaganda to control all outlets of public information, while remaining in the shadows, clear of blame.
13. Make the masses believe they had been the prey of criminals. Then restore order to appear as the saviors.
14. Create financial panics. Use hunger to control to subjugate the masses.
15. Infiltrate Freemasonry to take advantage of the Grand Orient Lodges to cloak the true nature of their work in philanthropy. Spread their atheistic-materialistic ideology amongst the "Goyim" (gentiles).
16. When the hour strikes for our sovereign lord of the entire World to be crowned, their influence will banish everything that might stand in his way.
17. Use systematic deception, high-sounding phrases and popular slogans. “The opposite of what has been promised can always be done afterwards... That is of no consequence.”
18. A Reign of Terror is the most economical way to bring about speedy subjection.
19. Masquerade as political, financial and economic advisers to carry out our mandates with Diplomacy and without fear of exposing “the secret power behind national and international affairs.”
20. Ultimate world government is the goal. It will be necessary to establish huge monopolies, so even the largest fortunes of the Goyim will depend on us to such an extent that they will go to the bottom together with the credit of their governments on the day after the great political smash.”
21. Use economic warfare. Rob the "Goyim" of their landed properties and industries with a combination of high taxes and unfair competition.
22. “Make the 'Goyim' destroy each other so there will only be the proletariat left in the world, with a few millionaires devoted to our cause, and sufficient police and soldiers to protect our interest.”
23. Call it The New Order. Appoint a Dictator.
24. Fool, bemuse and corrupt the younger members of society by teaching them theories and principles we know to be false.
25 Twist national and international laws into a contradiction which first masks the law and afterwards hides it altogether. Substitute arbitration for law.

After my study of the Rothschild family and all the intrigues that they have been involved in I have no doubt that some of the conspiracy theories out there are really true.

Can you think of any Scriptures that fit into all of this?

(1) A secure Satanic dictatorship in Russia, a secure base to carry out further world subversion.
(2) The Satanic family of Rothschilds gained partial control over Palestine, preparing the way for Satan to rule from Jerusalem some day
(3) Weapons of mass destruction and terror.
(4) The League of Nations.
Out of the second world war came
(1) The enlargement of their secure base in Russia into a world power.
(2) complete control over Palestine by the Rothschilds.
(3) airpower, including long range missiles, jets, secret flying saucers, and powerful submarines, all items that individuals could not produce . Those in control of production would therefore control all air and sea ways of the earth.
(4) The cold war and an era of terror to convince the people of the need for Satan’s One World Order.
(5) the United Nations.
 

TimeWarpWife

Well-Known Member
I don't know if anyone remembers, but Obama and the Democrats started talking about confiscating stealing borrowing Americans' 401k funds, but there was such public outrage that they dropped that idea, albeit I'm sure it's only temporary. When looking this information up, I found something interesting on Dave Ramsey's website that I hadn't heard before. According to Dave, back in 2011 and 2012, the Treasury Department borrowed money from federal employees' retirement funds for the fifth and sixth times, respectively, in 20 years. He stated the funds were paid back. Still, that's scary that the employees weren't asked for their approval, it was simply taken. Frankly, I don't trust the government about anything, but especially when it comes to money. Look at all the money they have STOLEN from us out of Social Security. Shouldn't these people be charged with embezzlement because the money was taken without the permission of the people who own it, namely American taxpayers? I believe Bernie Madoff is in prison for doing basically the same thing ~ stealing money from people who trusted him to invest it and protect it until they needed it. And Mr. Obama, IMO, should be put in prison for intentionally creating more debt for this country than all 43 POTUS before him put together! That is outright financial irresponsibility on steroids! Had he been the president or CEO of a private company, he'd have at the very least been fired, and possibly prosecuted. But in this country, the liberal lunatics rewarded him by electing him to another 4 years in order to get us into more debt. :furious
 

Endangered

Well-Known Member
It is a possibility all this will come crashing down after the Rapture. I beieve the Rapture will likely trigger a stock market crash and a world wide recession. These adverse economic conditions will be used by Satan to advance his minion onto the world, the AC.
Dems will take over the US gov and run the debt even higher with more spending and less tax coming in.
RFers, you DONT want to be left behind.
 

TimeWarpWife

Well-Known Member
At some point during the tribulation period, the bible says men will be pushing their wheelbarrows of money and gold and silver, and crying............. because it is worthless.
The same thing happened during the German Weimar Republic, which eventually led to Hitler and the Nazis coming to power. German money had more value being burned as fuel than it did to buy food ~ before WW1 a loaf of German bread cost 13 cents in American money and by the end of 1923, it cost $100 BILLION a loaf :yikes and at this point the German mark completely collapsed.
 

InsuranceGuy

Well-Known Member
I don't know if anyone remembers, but Obama and the Democrats started talking about confiscating stealing borrowing Americans' 401k funds, but there was such public outrage that they dropped that idea, albeit I'm sure it's only temporary. When looking this information up, I found something interesting on Dave Ramsey's website that I hadn't heard before. According to Dave, back in 2011 and 2012, the Treasury Department borrowed money from federal employees' retirement funds for the fifth and sixth times, respectively, in 20 years. He stated the funds were paid back. Still, that's scary that the employees weren't asked for their approval, it was simply taken. Frankly, I don't trust the government about anything, but especially when it comes to money. Look at all the money they have STOLEN from us out of Social Security. Shouldn't these people be charged with embezzlement because the money was taken without the permission of the people who own it, namely American taxpayers? I believe Bernie Madoff is in prison for doing basically the same thing ~ stealing money from people who trusted him to invest it and protect it until they needed it. And Mr. Obama, IMO, should be put in prison for intentionally creating more debt for this country than all 43 POTUS before him put together! That is outright financial irresponsibility on steroids! Had he been the president or CEO of a private company, he'd have at the very least been fired, and possibly prosecuted. But in this country, the liberal lunatics rewarded him by electing him to another 4 years in order to get us into more debt. :furious

This is exactly what I posted in the original post. The Govt. has "borrowed" from not just Federal retirement plans, but retirement plans working alongside the Federal Govt. They have raided funds that do not belong to them and someday, people will need those funds.

I'll give you a good example: The UAW (United Auto Workers). They were one of the more powerful unions for half a century. When my Uncle retired from General Motors, after just over 30 years, he thought he would live a great life. His pension was guaranteed. Oh, but it wasn't. Less than a year after retiring, his pension was cut by 2/3rds and his Medical Insurance was taken away as well. He lost his farm over this. Where did all that retirement money go? Why wasn't more made of this in the media?

Need another example? My dad retired from the Teamsters union. He was a Trucker. After 30 years, he retired to live the American Dream. He's now 75 and the retirees received a letter from the Teamsters saying their pension fund will be completely dry (out of money) in the next 5 years. How can this be? They had over $10 BILLION in this retirement account and were considered one of the most overfunded pension accounts of all time. Yet here they are, nearly bankrupt. Where did the money go? Again, why isn't more of this being told?

The reason people do not hear more about it is because the media is controlled by a very small group of people. Look it up on Google. Most media outlets are owned by the same corporations, and if you want to dig really deep, there are people that claim it's truly just two owners and they control it ALL, just under different shell companies with different names. People are already losing their retirement. I cannot say for certain, but where do you think billions of dollars went? It went to the govt., in my opinion, and that is exactly why there is no press over these outlandish acts.

It will get worse. Wait until the Federal folks decide to retire. Let's see how long their pensions last.

As for the 401k's..... Greece took quite of bit from the citizens of their nation. You barely heard anything about it in the news here. You can look up the full details on Google. Do you all recall when Mrs. Clinton (A.K.A. Demon Lady) went to China to discuss "something" that was never explained to the American people? I do. Many speculate she and Hussein Obama made a deal and signed it with American blood. Many believe they would confiscate retirement plans, including 401k's, should we not be able to repay our debt to them. Nothing is more interesting than the truth.
 

Kem

Citizen
They had over $10 BILLION in this retirement account and were considered one of the most overfunded pension accounts of all time. Yet here they are, nearly bankrupt. Where did the money go? Again, why isn't more of this being told?
Yes indeed, I believe just as you do that the government took it and we have no say in it at all. I also believe it has not gone back into the economy but is in private foreign accounts for the top echelon who plan to be part of world government. What little has been actually spent in our economy has been used for illegal things that are best not even mentioned.
 
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