Osteoporosis

Ghoti Ichthus

Pray so they do not serve alone. Ephesians 6:10-20
Last year, DEXA showed osteopenia
Doc said take another calcium each day, so I upped it.
Doc also prescribed 50,000 units of D2 per week for Vitamin D deficiency

This year, DEXA showed osteoporosis
Wonder if the amiodarone (horrible drug) accelerated progression :mad
New doc wants me to take alendronate (generic Fosamax) (old doc retired)
The Fellow that was training with him said no problem with afib
I got the patient crimp with the prescription the the mail and found out the dug can cause arrhythmia :mad
Since my afib is still not well controlled, even though my (actual) doc says it's safe, we've agreed to put it on hold because not an emergency.

Did some research and learned about Vitamin K2 (menaquinone), calcium paradox, and osteocalcin. Note that Vitamin K2 is very different from Vitamin K1.

My Osteocalcin was 24.6, which is the high end of range for pre-menopausal women and mid-range for post-menopausal women. Likely a significant number of post-menopausal women represented when the range was determined/adjusted, so I prefer to compare my results with pre-menopausal women, who are far less likely to have osteoporosis). I had to pay for this lab test out of my pocket because new doc doesn't know anything about K2 or osteocalcin, and my request, along with the info about it, was intercepted by the nurse gatekeeper :mad

For osteoporosis, currently taking
K2 (MK7) 200 mcg/day and (MK4) 1000 mcg/day (trans forms, not CIS)
D2 50,000 IU per week
Calcium 750 mg/day
Magnesium 750 mg/day
Phosporous 375 mg/day
Potassium 149 mg/day

The K2, D2, magnesium, and potassium are good for afib, too :smile

Calcium forms: calcium hydroxyapatite, citrate, aspartate, alpha-keotglutarate, lysinate
Magnesium forms: calcium hydroxyapatite, citrate, aspartate, alpha-keotglutarate, lysinate
Potassium forms: potassium citrate, potassium aspartate, potassium alpha-ketoglutarate


In Japan, 45,000 mcg of Vitamin K2 MK4 (divided dosing 15,000 3 x day) is prescribed for osteoporosis.
I sent the articles to doc, along with a couple of questions, but the nurse gatekeeper intercepted and won't pass the message to him :mad


I'm going to repeat the ostecalcin test later this summer and see if the K2 has done anything that reflects on lab results. Wish the VA would let me have another DEXA so I see if the K2 has made a difference in bone density and can make a more informed decision about the alendronate once the afib is well controlled (or down to a dull roar).
Since I've started the K2, my teeth and varicose veins are better :smile


Fair disclosure: also taking 600 mg ubiquinol, 1000 mg taurine, 1000 mg Viatmin C, and drinking lots of OJ (mostly for the potassium). And Eliquis and thyroid meds.
I can't (shouldn't) take supplemental boron because acts as a phytoestrogen.


Hope this helps someone else.
 
Last edited:

Cloud Watcher

Well-Known Member
My scan this week showed some osteopenia. That is an improvement over years in the past when there was also some osteoporosis. So I will continue with my usual regiment, with the addition of the new supplement containing boron. Maybe in 2 years when I do the test again there will be more improvement.
 

Leigh

Well-Known Member
Last year, DEXA showed osteopenia
Doc said take another calcium each day, so I upped it.
Doc also prescribed 50,000 units of D2 per week for Vitamin D deficiency

This year, DEXA showed osteoporosis
Wonder if the amiodarone (horrible drug) accelerated progression :mad
New doc wants me to take alendronate (generic Fosamax) (old doc retired)
The Fellow that was training with him said no problem with afib
I got the patient crimp with the prescription the the mail and found out the dug can cause arrhythmia :mad
Since my afib is still not well controlled, even though my (actual) doc says it's safe, we've agreed to put it on hold because not an emergency.

Did some research and learned about Vitamin K2 (menaquinone), calcium paradox, and osteocalcin. Note that Vitamin K2 is very different from Vitamin K1.

My Osteocalcin was 24.6, which is the high end of range for pre-menopausal women and mid-range for post-menopausal women. Likely a significant number of post-menopausal women represented when the range was determined/adjusted, so I prefer to compare my results with pre-menopausal women, who are far less likely to have osteoporosis). I had to pay for this lab test out of my pocket because new doc doesn't know anything about K2 or osteocalcin, and my request, along with the info about it, was intercepted by the nurse gatekeeper :mad

For osteoporosis, currently taking
K2 (MK7) 200 mcg/day and (MK4) 1000 mcg/day (trans forms, not CIS)
D2 50,000 IU per week
Calcium 750 mg/day
Magnesium 750 mg/day
Phosporous 375 mg/day
Potassium 149 mg/day

The K2, D2, magnesium, and potassium are good for afib, too :smile

Calcium forms: calcium hydroxyapatite, citrate, aspartate, alpha-keotglutarate, lysinate
Magnesium forms: calcium hydroxyapatite, citrate, aspartate, alpha-keotglutarate, lysinate
Potassium forms: potassium citrate, potassium aspartate, potassium alpha-ketoglutarate


In Japan, 45,000 mcg of Vitamin K2 MK4 (divided dosing 15,000 3 x day) is prescribed for osteoporosis.
I sent the articles to doc, along with a couple of questions, but the nurse gatekeeper intercepted and won't pass the message to him :mad


I'm going to repeat the ostecalcin test later this summer and see if the K2 has done anything that reflects on lab results. Wish the VA would let me have another DEXA so I see if the K2 has made a difference in bone density and can make a more informed decision about the alendronate once the afib is well controlled (or down to a dull roar).
Since I've started the K2, my teeth and varicose veins are better :smile


Fair disclosure: also taking 600 mg ubiquinol, 1000 mg taurine, 1000 mg Viatmin C, and drinking lots of OJ (mostly for the potassium). And Eliquis and thyroid meds.
I can't (shouldn't) take supplemental boron because acts as a phytoestrogen.


Hope this helps someone else.
Thank you Ghoti Icthus for all the great info!! :hug I need to inquire about the osteocalcin test next time I see my internal medicine doctor.

I really appreciate everyone's sharing their knowledge and experiences and hope the input is helpful to us all! :thumbup

When I went for my appointment last week, my doctor asked when was my last DEXA scan and we talked about it, but she never said a word about the Boniva she'd prescribed and for sure I didn't bring it up!! :nod

She did give the usual recommendations about taking calcium and getting weight-bearing exercise. I don't think she mentioned vitamin D and definitely not K2, but I'm doing those already. She asked how much dairy I get in my diet and I said not much because most of it is a migraine trigger, so I have to eat it sparingly. However, there are other food sources of calcium.

The main thing I need to work on is exercise. I'm just not a fan of it!

Do any of you watch the "Bob and Brad" channel on YT? I'll bet Ghoti Icthus knows them since they're from her state. I love them and their catchy little jingle!

"Bob and Brad
The two most famous
Physical Therapists

On the internet!"

Anyway, they have some videos on osteoporosis so you ladies check them out if you need some ideas on that or any other PT issue. They claim they can fix just about anything except a broken heart (and they're working on that!). :biggrin
 

Wings Like Eagles

Well-Known Member
Thank you Ghoti Icthus for all the great info!! :hug I need to inquire about the osteocalcin test next time I see my internal medicine doctor.

I really appreciate everyone's sharing their knowledge and experiences and hope the input is helpful to us all! :thumbup

When I went for my appointment last week, my doctor asked when was my last DEXA scan and we talked about it, but she never said a word about the Boniva she'd prescribed and for sure I didn't bring it up!! :nod

She did give the usual recommendations about taking calcium and getting weight-bearing exercise. I don't think she mentioned vitamin D and definitely not K2, but I'm doing those already. She asked how much dairy I get in my diet and I said not much because most of it is a migraine trigger, so I have to eat it sparingly. However, there are other food sources of calcium.

The main thing I need to work on is exercise. I'm just not a fan of it!

Do any of you watch the "Bob and Brad" channel on YT? I'll bet Ghoti Icthus knows them since they're from her state. I love them and their catchy little jingle!

"Bob and Brad
The two most famous
Physical Therapists

On the internet!"

Anyway, they have some videos on osteoporosis so you ladies check them out if you need some ideas on that or any other PT issue. They claim they can fix just about anything except a broken heart (and they're working on that!). :biggrin
I LOVE Bob and Brad! Their exercises really helped my lower back when I hurt it last winter!
 

RobinB

Well-Known Member
You do have to be careful with too much calcium. I stopped taking extra after reading articles saying there's no proof it helps with bone density, that actually magnesium does more. And calcium can cause kidney stones.
 

Ghoti Ichthus

Pray so they do not serve alone. Ephesians 6:10-20
All he wants to watch are football, old B&W movies, Perry Mason, Newsmax, and sometimes trashy movies. He keeps flip-flip-flip-flip-flip-flip . . . frequently, just as the ending of something is coming on, he'll change the channel so there are a lot of movies I've seen, but haven't seen the endings :mad If I don't remind not to tell me, him, he'll spoil a movie telling me what's going to happen :mad
 

Cloud Watcher

Well-Known Member
All he wants to watch are football, old B&W movies, Perry Mason, Newsmax, and sometimes trashy movies. He keeps flip-flip-flip-flip-flip-flip . . . frequently, just as the ending of something is coming on, he'll change the channel so there are a lot of movies I've seen, but haven't seen the endings :mad If I don't remind not to tell me, him, he'll spoil a movie telling me what's going to happen :mad

My ex son in law used to do that when I would visit my daughter. We would be watching something, and he would walk in the house and grab the remote. Flip flip flip. No regard for the fact that we were already watching what we wanted. Ugh!
 

Leigh

Well-Known Member
That's why the K2. It puts the calcium in the bones and keeps it out of the soft tissues.

I don't know the show. I'm stuck watching whatever Dad puts on/flips to/through except late at night.
All he wants to watch are football, old B&W movies, Perry Mason, Newsmax, and sometimes trashy movies. He keeps flip-flip-flip-flip-flip-flip . . . frequently, just as the ending of something is coming on, he'll change the channel so there are a lot of movies I've seen, but haven't seen the endings :mad If I don't remind not to tell me, him, he'll spoil a movie telling me what's going to happen :mad
Bob & Brad are a YouTube channel, so maybe you can watch on your computer?
 

Leigh

Well-Known Member
I just watched a short video on the Bob & Brad YouTube channel that might be useful to someone. I would put the link but don't think that's allowed, so I'll just copy the title. (From April 3, 2018)

3 Things You Should NEVER Do If You Have Osteoporosis. PLUS Exercises You Should Do.​


Here's another one:

Osteoporosis? 3 Important Ex. You Should Do Every Day​

 

Cloud Watcher

Well-Known Member
I just watched a short video on the Bob & Brad YouTube channel that might be useful to someone. I would put the link but don't think that's allowed, so I'll just copy the title. (From April 3, 2018)

3 Things You Should NEVER Do If You Have Osteoporosis. PLUS Exercises You Should Do.​


Here's another one:

Osteoporosis? 3 Important Ex. You Should Do Every Day​


Thanks.
 
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