No One Knows The Day or The Hour

Andy C

Well-Known Member
Interesting point. I have thought about that numerous times.
Jesus created Lucifer.
Jesus created Lucifer as a cher'-ub.
An anointed cher'-ub that covereth..

Ezekiel 28:14-15
Thou art the anointed cher'-ub that covereth;
and I have set thee so: thou wast upon
the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked
up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the
day thou wast created , till iniquity was
found in thee.


He wasnt created as an angel.
The Bible never states he is an angel , only that he transforms into an angel of light .
The Bible states he was a created cherub.

Angels are angels,
Seraphims are seraphims,
Cherubs are cherubs,
and humans are humans , EXCEPT we were created ...
Genesis 1:26
And God said , Let us make man in our
image , after our likeness: and let them
have dominion over the fish of the sea , and over the fowl of the air , and over the cattle ,
and over all the earth , and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.


Man is the Crown Jewel of ALL God's creations!
The apex !

Hmmm... that could make one (non man) jealous and cut to the heart , and filled with pride...
That "one" would have to choose of course to think that way and act in likewise manner.
Interesting discussion, and one I truly never gave my proper attention to in my studies.

From Got Questions:

Was satan an Angel?

The Bible nowhere explicitly describes Satan as an angel before he rebelled against God and was cast out of heaven. Assuming Ezekiel 28:12–18 is symbolic of Satan’s fall, Satan is described as a “guardian cherub.” Cherubs are angelic creatures, possibly the highest order of angels. So, in that sense, yes, Satan was an angel.

Job 1:6–7 describes Satan appearing before God with the other “sons of God,” very likely a reference to the angels. Matthew 25:41 mentions “the devil and his angels.” Revelation 12:7, describing the end-times war in heaven, says, “Michael [the archangel] and his angels fought against the dragon [Satan] and his angels.” Whether or not Satan is technically an angel is beside the point. Satan is an angelic-type creature with a close connection to the angels.

Why would Satan, an angel, rebel against God? According to Isaiah 14:12–14 (another symbolic description), Satan rebelled against God because of pride. Satan did not want to be the most beautiful or most powerful angel. Satan wanted to be God. Satan did not want to worship God. Satan wanted to be worshiped. So, Satan rebelled and became the fallen angel we now know as the devil. His fate will be eternity in the lake of fire (Revelation 20:10).

https://www.gotquestions.org/was-Satan-an-angel.html
 

Hidden

Well-Known Member
Modern translations did a good job translating "zoa" as living creatures instead of "beast". The Greek for beast or wild beast is "therion", and it is the word used to describe the AC and the FP. But the greek word used for the living creatures are "zoa".

The living creatures or Cherubim are a special class of creatures that seem to be the highest order of created beings.
 

ItIsFinished!

Blood bought child of the King of kings.
I don't agree with them saying that it is beside the point in regards to whether Satan is an angel or not. All of God's word is very important especially when it comes to Satan.
Then the writer of the article immediately writes , why would Satan , an angel, rebel against God ?
That is flat out improper to be quite honest.
The Word of God does not call him an angel or a created angel.
He is a cherub.
That is what the Bible states.

That said, Got Questions is okay for the most part , but I definitely disagree with alot of what they write because alot of what they write isn't what the Bible says or teaches.
This is one example.

It is like the commentaries in our Bibles, those commentaries are not inspired. They are not inerrant nor infallible, but many put alot of stock in them.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
I don't agree with them saying that it is beside the point in regards to whether Satan is an angel or not. All of God's word is very important especially when it comes to Satan.
Then the writer of the article immediately writes , why would Satan , an angel, rebel against God ?
That is flat out improper to be quite honest.
The Word of God does not call him an angel or a created angel.
He is a cherub.
That is what the Bible states.

That said, Got Questions is okay for the most part , but I definitely disagree with alot of what they write because alot of what they write isn't what the Bible says or teaches.
This is one example.

It is like the commentaries in our Bibles, those commentaries are not inspired. They are not inerrant nor infallible, but many put alot of stock in them.
I seldom use Got Questions because they lean heavily towards calvinism.
 

ItIsFinished!

Blood bought child of the King of kings.
I seldom use Got Questions because they lean heavily towards calvinism.
Exactly!
I left that truth out because I didn't want to seem like I was attacking them after what I already said.
I detest the teaching of the lie(s) of Calvinism as well as the lies of Replacement Theology.
Both of them are immensely dark teachings.
 

Tall Timbers

Imperfect but forgiven
I don't agree with them saying that it is beside the point in regards to whether Satan is an angel or not. All of God's word is very important especially when it comes to Satan.
Then the writer of the article immediately writes , why would Satan , an angel, rebel against God ?
That is flat out improper to be quite honest.
The Word of God does not call him an angel or a created angel.
He is a cherub.
That is what the Bible states.

You make a valid point. Most consider a Cherub a class of angel, yet I don't think the Bible teaches that. Google or Bing "is lucifer an angel" and it appears that it is common to consider a cherub a class of angel. That the vast majority think that way doesn't make it correct. In terms of discovering if satan is an angel or not, we come closest when Pauls says satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 2 Cor 11:14.

In terms of our human understanding of beings that reside/resided with God in heaven, I don't think it is overly important if we consider them all classes of angels, which they may or may not be. Seraphim, Cherubim, Ophanim, Archangel(s), Angels? A time will come when things like that will be quite clear, though the more we can get right now, the better.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
You make a valid point. Most consider a Cherub a class of angel, yet I don't think the Bible teaches that. Google or Bing "is lucifer an angel" and it appears that it is common to consider a cherub a class of angel. That the vast majority think that way doesn't make it correct. In terms of discovering if satan is an angel or not, we come closest when Pauls says satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 2 Cor 11:14.

In terms of our human understanding of beings that reside/resided with God in heaven, I don't think it is overly important if we consider them all classes of angels, which they may or may not be. Seraphim, Cherubim, Ophanim, Archangel(s), Angels? A time will come when things like that will be quite clear, though the more we can get right now, the better.
Truly good points raised, and I learned something today!

I do have to keep it simple, and that is whatever satan is, I know who he is when he is referenced under many different names in the bible. He is an enemy of all things good, but Jesus will prevail in the end, so we win!

Cherubim, fallen angel…etc..He is defeated, only he does not believe that now.
 

lismore

Well-Known Member
I think maybe the reason why the rapture isnt told about more in scripture is the same reason why Jesus taught in parables.

Perhaps it's also a case of scripture not repeatedly teaching the obvious.
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night (1 Thessalonians 5:2). Paul says that the believers already knew perfectly about the End Times. The bible isn't going to say something again and again that was already perfect knowledge to those reading it. 1 Thessalonians chapters 4 and 5 reads like an encouraging reminder of something they already knew, had already been well taught. It was only later when the church got into replacement theology that the waters were muddied -'Did God really say.....' God Bless :)
 

Chris

Administrator
Staff member
Maybe the Bible didn't say really speak much about it as Israel had to make their decision about accepting the Messiah? :scratch

When they didn't do that, it is like another poster here said with the Mario game scenario, that suddenly a new set of "worlds" open up and this one included the rapture and the "extra" time called the Church age. Unfortunately, it also included the Tribulation period for unbelieving Israel and unrepentant sinners. :sad I don't know. But like a computer programmer who factors the "additional worlds" into the Mario game, God knew and factored in the rejection of Messiah. He had a "game plan" for either decision. It all depended on the decision of the "player" (Israel) and what moves they made. I really hate to kind of relate this life to a video game as it much more serious than that, but I hope you can see what I'm trying to say here. :scratch

That's an idea that just popped into my mind just now. :idunno
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
I'd prefer that we not use them in the future. I was disappointed that they start promoting a Calvinism viewpoint, but they do have "volunteers" that write their articles and answers to questions. It looks like a few "Calvinists" have made it through the screening process. :sad
I believe they have an entire team of who answers their questions, most of which support “TULIP”.
 

Chris

Administrator
Staff member
I believe they have an entire team of who answers their questions, most of which support “TULIP”.
I used to link to them on the main site, but stopped years ago when they started referencing weird books and started making Calvinist supporting answers to questions.

Most of their stuff is good, but there seems to be a lot that is not right there anymore. :sad
 

ItIsFinished!

Blood bought child of the King of kings.

Perhaps it's also a case of scripture not repeatedly teaching the obvious.
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night (1 Thessalonians 5:2). Paul says that the believers already knew perfectly about the End Times. The bible isn't going to say something again and again that was already perfect knowledge to those reading it. 1 Thessalonians chapters 4 and 5 reads like an encouraging reminder of something they already knew, had already been well taught. It was only later when the church got into replacement theology that the waters were muddied -'Did God really say.....' God Bless :)
Those who believe in Replacement Theology and teach that nonsense shouldn't be teaching God's Word . Talk about missing the boat.
Satan absolutely LOVES the brimstone encased falsehood of Replacement Theology.
 

Len

Well-Known Member
Most of their stuff is good, but there seems to be a lot that is not right there anymore.
I do use gotquestions.org at times so hearing they "now" have a calvanistic leaning is no real surprise to me as I am finding so many "christian" orginisations teachings have "some" lies wrapped in a thin veil of truth these days ...... and it is growing at a tremendous pace I feel.
 

lismore

Well-Known Member
I do use gotquestions.org at times so hearing they "now" have a calvanistic leaning is no real surprise to me as I am finding so many "christian" orginisations teachings have "some" lies wrapped in a thin veil of truth these days ...... and it is growing at a tremendous pace I feel.
Hi Len. The veil required to hoodwink people seems to be getting thinner. The bible warns about deception in the church in the last days, one reason I'm sure the rapture is close. God Bless :)
 
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