No holes in the floor of Heaven

Longing2cJesus

Well-Known Member
No holes in the floor of Heaven

Contrary to what you have been told, there are NOT any holes in the floor of heaven, and none of our loved ones hear us, or watch us, or direct us from beyond.

There are no such things as Ghosts; DEMONS… YES!!! And none of us become Angels when we die.

The Bible tells us (2 Corinthians 11:14-15) that Satan and his demons can and do (disguise/transform) themselves as angels, or as a loved one (we have lost). They are never our loved ones; Never!

When our “BELIEVING” loved ones die, they do NOT see what we are doing. Too often you will hear someone say they are here with us in spirit; NO. You can dedicate an event to them, but they (nor their spirit) is present; ever.

God’s promises, and His Word says,
(2 Corinthians 5:8) “We are well pleased to be absent from the body, in the presence of the Lord.
(Hebrew 9:27) It tells us that we are appointed to die once, then judgment.
(Isaiah 25:8b) It tells us that God will wipe away every tear.

Would our Loving God take us to heaven and then subject us to the “Torment” of watching our loved ones suffering? NO!

Those who have told you these things, are either “IGNORANT” and Do Not Know God’s Holy Scripture, or they are Liars who seek to comfort, rather than… TEACH “you” GOD’S Truth.

Kath Stieber
 

Batfan7

Well-Known Member
Um... While I'd never try to contact a dead loved one, which is what this is addressing, I'm not sure I'd go so far as to agree that the dead are ignorant if what is happening in this life. I think they see and praise God (we see that in Revelation). And who is the "great host of witnesses" Paul speaks of?
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
No holes in the floor of Heaven

Contrary to what you have been told, there are NOT any holes in the floor of heaven, and none of our loved ones hear us, or watch us, or direct us from beyond.

There are no such things as Ghosts; DEMONS… YES!!! And none of us become Angels when we die.

The Bible tells us (2 Corinthians 11:14-15) that Satan and his demons can and do (disguise/transform) themselves as angels, or as a loved one (we have lost). They are never our loved ones; Never!

When our “BELIEVING” loved ones die, they do NOT see what we are doing. Too often you will hear someone say they are here with us in spirit; NO. You can dedicate an event to them, but they (nor their spirit) is present; ever.

God’s promises, and His Word says,
(2 Corinthians 5:8) “We are well pleased to be absent from the body, in the presence of the Lord.
(Hebrew 9:27) It tells us that we are appointed to die once, then judgment.
(Isaiah 25:8b) It tells us that God will wipe away every tear.

Would our Loving God take us to heaven and then subject us to the “Torment” of watching our loved ones suffering? NO!

Those who have told you these things, are either “IGNORANT” and Do Not Know God’s Holy Scripture, or they are Liars who seek to comfort, rather than… TEACH “you” GOD’S Truth.

Kath Stieber
Concur. Once we die and are in Heaven, we have zero contact, or know anything about whats going on in our former world. Why would we want to torment ourselves watching our loved ones do whatever?

From Revelation, we know the Tribulation Saints MIGHT be able to see what is happening on earth when they ask our Lord -

Revelation 6:
9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.

10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”
 

Longing2cJesus

Well-Known Member
Um... While I'd never try to contact a dead loved one, which is what this is addressing, I'm not sure I'd go so far as to agree that the dead are ignorant if what is happening in this life. I think they see and praise God (we see that in Revelation). And who is the "great host of witnesses" Paul speaks of?
In order to understand Hebrews 12/1-2 look at Hebrews 11. The great cloud of witnesses is referring to the Saints of old. The witness verse is often taken out of context. Hope that helps.
 

Batfan7

Well-Known Member
In order to understand Hebrews 12/1-2 look at Hebrews 11. The great cloud of witnesses is referring to the Saints of old. The witness verse is often taken out of context. Hope that helps.
Yes, I agree, it is referring to the saints if old. But if you think the dead are unaware of what happens on Earth, then how are those saints watching?

I guess we just disagree about what kind of impact knowing what's happening on Earth has on the people in Heaven. I think, like Paul says, that the greatness, wonder, rewards (etc) found in Heaven make the hardships (even the worst) of this life seem like nothing. The righteous dead, in my opinion, like the angles, can have full view of what's happening here and it causes them to praise God and marvel at his actions. We won't look down and despair over our loved ones, but stand in awe at how God is at work in their lives. If you think ignorance brings more glory to God than knowing would, then we shall just have to agree to disagree on this.
 

Longing2cJesus

Well-Known Member
Yes, I agree, it is referring to the saints if old. But if you think the dead are unaware of what happens on Earth, then how are those saints watching?

I guess we just disagree about what kind of impact knowing what's happening on Earth has on the people in Heaven. I think, like Paul says, that the greatness, wonder, rewards (etc) found in Heaven make the hardships (even the worst) of this life seem like nothing. The righteous dead, in my opinion, like the angles, can have full view of what's happening here and it causes them to praise God and marvel at his actions. We won't look down and despair over our loved ones, but stand in awe at how God is at work in their lives. If you think ignorance brings more glory to God than knowing would, then we shall just have to agree to disagree on this.
Batfan7 I give you Scripture and you get personal and insulting as if you are the only one who is right.

I am sorry for you that you have to resort to this level.

Neither you nor I not any other person is all knowing as our LORD is. I take the Word at it's word and do not compromise nor do I add or subtract from it.

Your argument has not Scripture to back up what you say.
 

Batfan7

Well-Known Member
Batfan7 I give you Scripture and you get personal and insulting as if you are the only one who is right.

I am sorry for you that you have to resort to this level.

Neither you nor I not any other person is all knowing as our LORD is. I take the Word at it's word and do not compromise nor do I add or subtract from it.

Your argument has not Scripture to back up what you say.
I thought I'd been very polite, so I'm sorry you felt I was attacking you. My point was that it was okay to disagree on this point and then simply stated my position on it. For example, you quoted the scripture about "no more tears" to support your position, and I'd use the same scripture to say that we DO see what happens on Earth, except what we see doesn't cause tears. Same Bible, same verse, but two different ways of looking at it. And that's okay.
 

greg64

Well-Known Member
I think maybe there was a misunderstanding about what was meant in the bolded and underlined quote a couple of posts up? Ignorance of the happenings on Earth, not of any particular person?

On my phone so can't copy and paste too easily, but I think you could make a case from the martyrs in Revelation crying out to God that there is at least some awareness of Earthly events that are going on. Also the events of Revelation as John saw them... he saw what happened each step of the way.
 
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