No Gog and Magog yet

JesusIsLord

Well-Known Member
What I havent seen talked about in this post is whether Gog/Magog happens before or after the Rapture. It appears that it does happen before the Tribulation, but at the same time, God has again focused attention back onto Israel, which would indicate that the Church is already gone. The implications of this is that there is a gap between the Rapture and the Tribulation by at least the amount of time it takes to complete this war. The burying of the dead can go into the Trib after the covenant has been signed, but we also know that they will burn the fuel for 7 years, which is widely interpreted as the length of the Tribulation. Therefore, I believe that this war takes place after the Rapture but before the Trib.

I have yet to do a really in-depth study on this, but all my readings point me towards what I stated above.

What do you guys think?
 

Sean Osborne

Well-Known Member
What I havent seen talked about in this post is whether Gog/Magog happens before or after the Rapture.
No one can discuss the timing element with any real exegetical clarity based upon what is in the inspired prophetic Scripture on the subject.

For example, what we do know is that the season of the Fig Tree is here, and we're certain from Scripture the Harpazo occurs prior to Daniel's 70th Week.

We also know that in Ezekiel 38/39 there is no mention of a Temple existing, yet there is a Temple standing no later than the middle of Daniel's 70th Week. It would appear that the Temple must be constructed fairly quickly, say within 7 years or less, after the Gog Confederation is destroyed.

I've maintained for a while now that there may exist a clue which might render the Harpazo and the Gog Confederation invasion as relatively concurrent prophetic events.

After the Gog Cengederation is destroyed the Temple is constructed and the daily sacrifice and Temple worship are reinstituted. God's emphasis is on Israel from this point forward - the literal fulfillment of Romans 11 will be in progress.

Since the Lord's focus is from that point forward on the redemption of all (i.e. the house of) Israel, the the Bride of Christ will have been removed. Ezekiel 39:29 is the clue I reference. The pouring out of the Spirit of the Lord upon Israel is in the past tense. Ezekiel is quoting God directly in verse 29 where he says, "...for I shall have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel...." I maintain this is a very good indication that the Bride of Christ has already been taken in the Hapazo.
 

JesusIsLord

Well-Known Member
No one can discuss the timing element with any real exegetical clarity based upon what is in the inspired prophetic Scripture on the subject.

For example, what we do know is that the season of the Fig Tree is here, and we're certain from Scripture the Harpazo occurs prior to Daniel's 70th Week.

We also know that in Ezekiel 38/39 there is no mention of a Temple existing, yet there is a Temple standing no later than the middle of Daniel's 70th Week. It would appear that the Temple must be constructed fairly quickly, say within 7 years or less, after the Gog Confederation is destroyed.

I've maintained for a while now that there may exist a clue which might render the Harpazo and the Gog Confederation invasion as relatively concurrent prophetic events.

After the Gog Cengederation is destroyed the Temple is constructed and the daily sacrifice and Temple worship are reinstituted. God's emphasis is on Israel from this point forward - the literal fulfillment of Romans 11 will be in progress.

Since the Lord's focus is from that point forward on the redemption of all (i.e. the house of) Israel, the the Bride of Christ will have been removed. Ezekiel 39:29 is the clue I reference. The pouring out of the Spirit of the Lord upon Israel is in the past tense. Ezekiel is quoting God directly in verse 29 where he says, "...for I shall have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel...." I maintain this is a very good indication that the Bride of Christ has already been taken in the Hapazo.
I agree. I've seen lots of varying opinions on both sides and neither side can pinpoint it down with any concrete scripture. But the fact that God's attention is fully focused on Israel is highly suggestive in my mind that the Church is no longer in play.

Without using scripture (because there is none that proves it), I strongly feel that the Jerusalem/Temple question is going to hinge on the Gog/Magog event. What other event will cause Israel to wake up out of their stupor? Most of Israel is secular right now and I believe it will take a miraculous event to open their eyes. Secondly, no one in the world has been able to solve the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Who better than the cunning Antichrist to put in place an agreement to build the Temple in peace without inciting the muslim world to war? There are many Jews who believe that the Temple's location was not exactly where the Dome of the Rock sits now. John also was told in Rev. 11:2 not to measure the outer courts when measuring the new Temple, because it has been given over to the Gentiles (maybe the mosque?). It just seems to me that the "Covenant with many" will somehow allow Israel to rebuild their temple....and at this point, the Jews will be demanding it because their eyes have been opened to God after what He did during the Gog/Magog invasion.

Again, I cant be too dogmatic about it without scripture to support it. But to me, it seems like a logical process. I guess we'll have to see how it plays out.
 

Sean Osborne

Well-Known Member
Additionally, I believe that in looking at these things, particularly with respect to Ezekiel 39:29, we must also assign concurring Scripture found in Isaiah 17, Psalm 83 and Zechariah 12 as being parts of the same prophetic scene in any exegesis of this subject.

I also believe that Islam, as we currently understand it to exist, will not exist in the aftermath of these prophecies being fulfilled. Indeed, Ezekiel 38:13 holds additional important clues concerning some core Islamic states.

Sheba and Dedan, for example, comprise almost the whole of the Arab peoples of the Arabian Pensisula, from Kuwait in the north, through the Gulf States, and down to Yemen. This area comprises the whole of what used to be known as Arabia Felix and Arabia Deserta.

This is the core of modern day Sunni Islam. And where do these Arab peoples stand according to the Lord's prophetic message? They stand with Tarshish and all its "young lions" (i.e. the seafaring commerical nations of the West) when the Gog Confederation comes against Israel. This can only be as a result of the fulfillment of Isaiah 17 and Psalm 83. Psalm 83:16-18 seems to bear this exegesis out, that the Arabs will seek the One True God as a result of these events, or they will perish.
 

JesusIsLord

Well-Known Member
Additionally, I believe that in looking at these things, particularly with respect to Ezekiel 39:29, we must also assign concurring Scripture found in Isaiah 17, Psalm 83 and Zechariah 12 as being parts of the same prophetic scene in any exegesis of this subject.
I dont believe Ezekiel 38/39 concurs with Isaiah 17/Psalm 83, but rather that Ezekiel 38/39 happens as a result of Isaiah 17/Psalm 83. Is this what you meant, or do you believe these 2 events happen at the same time?

I also believe that Islam, as we currently understand it to exist, will not exist in the aftermath of these prophecies being fulfilled. Indeed, Ezekiel 38:13 holds additional important clues concerning some core Islamic states.
Indeed, Islam will be decimated. But the depravity of the people who hold to this religion will not let it go easily....no matter the evidence. I honestly dont know what will become of Islam during these times. There are 2 sides: 1) Islam is a key player during the Tribulation and 2) Islam is defeated and practically eradicated. After 2 wars of Islam being defeated, I find it hard to believe that Islam will be a prominent player. What's interesting about Islam is that they are looking for the 12th Imam, which many believe will be the Antichrist. How this plays out is anyone's guess...

Sheba and Dedan, for example, comprise almost the whole of the Arab peoples of the Arabian Pensisula, from Kuwait in the north, through the Gulf States, and down to Yemen. This area comprises the whole of what used to be known as Arabia Felix and Arabia Deserta.

This is the core of modern day Sunni Islam. And where do these Arab peoples stand according to the Lord's prophetic message? They stand with Tarshish and all its "young lions" (i.e. the seafaring commerical nations of the West) when the Gog Confederation comes against Israel. This can only be as a result of the fulfillment of Isaiah 17 and Psalm 83. Psalm 83:16-18 seems to bear this exegesis out, that the Arabs will seek the One True God as a result of these events, or they will perish.
I'm curious how you came to the interpretation of "Young Lions" as being "the seafaring commercial nations of the West"? I have always been confused by the "Young Lions" wording and have yet to find concrete evidence to support your finding (or anyone else's for that matter). I'd love to figure it out. :hat:
 

Sean Osborne

Well-Known Member
I dont believe Ezekiel 38/39 concurs with Isaiah 17/Psalm 83, but rather that Ezekiel 38/39 happens as a result of Isaiah 17/Psalm 83. Is this what you meant, or do you believe these 2 events happen at the same time?
They are sequentially fulfilled prophecies which occur prior to Daniel's 70th Week. Isaiah 17 and Psalm 83 are precursor prophetic events to Ezekiel 38/39.

Indeed, Islam will be decimated. But the depravity of the people who hold to this religion will not let it go easily....no matter the evidence.
God will do to Islam and its false prophet as He did to Baal and that false religion. Pslam 83 makes this very clear in the text and the names invoked if the prophecy is studied in detail.

I'm curious how you came to the interpretation of "Young Lions" as being "the seafaring commercial nations of the West"? I have always been confused by the "Young Lions" wording and have yet to find concrete evidence to support your finding (or anyone else's for that matter). I'd love to figure it out.
Per the Old Testament, Tarshish was a son of Javan. Tarshish is also the name given to a distant commerical seaport or colony of great wealth and merchandizing of the ancient sea-faring Phoenicians. Tarshish was located somewhere in the distant western Mediterranean Sea (where Jonah attempted to flee to the West, instead of to the East to Nineveh (near present day Mosul, Iraq) or beyond in what some exegetical works (such as that of Friedrich Heinrish Wilhelm Gensenius, circa mid-1800s Lexicon) held as a reference to modern Spain, Portugal and the UK which colonized the Western Hemisphere. The "young lions" is thereby interpreted to mean the relatively new nations of North, Central and South America. Tarshish is used symbolically in this manner to refer to the nations of the "New World." See Isaiah 66:19 for other references to the distant location of Tarshish.
 

Jillian

Well-Known Member
Well , I am so discouraged. I have been looking for the Lord to come soon and now it seems there will be 18 or 19 more years. If it is that long before the Tribulation starts , then it will be that long before the rapture as the two events are quite close together. I don't believe there are months and /or years separating the rapture and Trib. I have had burn out ever since I read this. Pray that I can get over this soon.
 

1newman

Member
Well , I am so discouraged. I have been looking for the Lord to come soon and now it seems there will be............ I have had burn out ever since I read this. Pray that I can get over this soon.
Think of those whom will come into the kingdom according to God's timing,that would otherwise miss the Heaven if we were in charge.I hope you will share greatly in leading others to Christ.What a reward.
The harvest is truly plenteous,but the labourers are few;......
Mat 9:37
 

Jillian

Well-Known Member
Yes , you are right of course. It means there is more time for others to come to Christ and that means saved souls . It's just that I am so ready to see the Lord and so tired of this world system.:pray:
 

m2pinggggggg

I Will Rise!
Don't worry. We saints can be taken anytime now. We the bride are waiting for nothing more to happen here on planet earth. We don't need to see the anti-christ show up. Thank you! :shrug
 

Keith

Well-Known Member
Well , I am so discouraged. I have been looking for the Lord to come soon and now it seems there will be 18 or 19 more years. .......... I don't believe there are months and /or years separating the rapture and Trib. I have had burn out ever since I read this. Pray that I can get over this soon.
:thinking:lets see if I can help you out sis. None of what i'm about to say can I back up with dates but at this point I just believe that the pace of prophecy fulfillment is too rapid for another 18-19 years.

I think a lot of what we're seeing everyday now is either fulfillment or set up for fulfillment. Its not even originally as I thought it would happen and that was a area over hear or there or some things and not others...thats not the case.

We're seeing setup for fulfillments or fulfillments in all areas mentioned in the bible. Some of these were mentioned by Jesus, some by O.T. prophets and some in the New Testament.


Seeing as how 7 seems to be the number in the bible for divine completeness i'll try and give you 7 reasons why I believe we are much closer than 18 or 19 yrs.

1. The Love of many will grow cold.

Just watch the news and see the mother/daughter relationships for this sign.

2. Without natural affection one for the other.

Check the rise in the gay/lesbian relationships and their vocalness now and how you're ravaged if you question it.

3. Pestilence - Before Swine Flu was bird flu and before that mad cow disease and after swine flu it'll be something else.

4. Wars & rumors of wars - America itself is engaged in 2 wars right now with rumors of Israel about to be involved in another.

5. One World Government - We have more than one body on the earth right now that runs on one world government : TheEU&U.N.

6. Mark of the Beast - Search the internet and you'll find stories that the technology exists for the implants in the skin and the databases with info to track everyone everywhere and there is more than one form of it.

7. Signs in the Sky Above and on the earth below - The world is about to disclose contact with aliens - The earth below part - Increase in major earthquakes...5 now is considered weak, most are causing Typhoons which are killing hundreds if not thousands at a time. Super strong Hurricanes, tornado after tornado, floods, tornadoes when it should be snowing, noreasters in the eastcoast instead of regular snowstorms and on and on.

All of these happening at the same time.

Unless the Lord slows the pace.... I don't see how we have 18-19 years left.

We may but I just don't see it.

And this isn't everything.
 
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Jillian

Well-Known Member
Thanks to all of you for your encouragement.

Keith , this is what I keep telling myself. There is just too many signs right now for it to go on for another almost decade. But then , I think that so much will take time to mature and that it may be possible of course , for this to continue for another decade or even two.

Please do pray for me. I need to rid myself of these depressed feelings. I guess the devil loves to play on our minds and emotions .
If he can get us to a state where we no longer look for the soon return of Christ , then he is quite happy. And I do NOT want to make him happy lol.

Thanks again for all the encouragement and please pray for me.
 
Praying for you, Jillian. I have moments where I feel the same and I'm seeing it with others. We sometimes don't balance our lives out by giving priority to the Lord. In my case, this is when I get caught up in the cares of the world - too much watching and not enough praying.
 

Jillian

Well-Known Member
Praying for you, Jillian. I have moments where I feel the same and I'm seeing it with others. We sometimes don't balance our lives out by giving priority to the Lord. In my case, this is when I get caught up in the cares of the world - too much watching and not enough praying.

Yes , that is so true.
 

Sean Osborne

Well-Known Member
Well, I am so discouraged. I have been looking for the Lord to come soon and now it seems there will be 18 or 19 more years.
Pray tell sister Jillian, what in all of Creation is there to be discouraged about that there might be 18-19 years before "the people in heaven" begin singing...

"Hallelujah!
Salvation and glory and power to our Gog,
forhis judgements are true and just:
He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication,
and He has avenged on her the blood of His servants.

Hallelujah!
The smoke goes up from her forever and ever.

Hallelujah!
For the Lord our God reigns.
Let us rejoice and exult and give Him the glory,
for the marriage supper of the Lamb has come,
and His bride has made herself ready;
to her it has been granted to be clothed with fine linen, bright and pure."
(exerpted from: Revelation 19)

Have you not known that you will be among those singing; that you will have been taken to join that great multitude at least seven years but possiblly more years prior to this singing,
or that those years have no relative meaning in Heaven?

Have you not known that immediately after that singing that you and the great multitude will watch as Heaven is opened and Jesus Christ mounts a white horse and all of the multitude will then follow Him on their own white horses back to the earth as He established His Kingdom?

Is this not you have been praying for - thy Kingdom come - every time you've prayed The Lord's Prayer?

Do you not realize that there are ONLY approximately 10 years or less for you and all of our Christian brethren alive on earth to witness to the unsaved, to go out each and every day Victorious in His Name fulfilling the Great Commission?

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

And you are discouraged about this?

Get yourself up, get busy and get yourself out into the unsaved world and WITNESS FOR JESUS CHRIST LIKE THERE IS NO TOMORROW - for there may not be a tomorrow because the Harpazo is IMMINENT!!!
 

Jillian

Well-Known Member
Sean because I have been looking for Christ to come very soon. And now I don't believe he will come as soon as expected. I had hoped He would come in MY lifetime . I will probably be dead in 20 years. Either way , whether I am alive or dead , I will meet Him , and this mortal body will put on immortal body that will never die. So I will forever be with the Lord. Amen.

I am so tired of this world system. I feel like Lot in Sodom . So ready for Him to come back and make things right on earth. So this world can be the place that God intended it to be. I know a lot of people feel like this too. But we must wait patiently for the Lord who is not slack in His coming.

My problem is that I have lost my zeal to watch for His coming . Pray that I can get over this as I don't like to feel this way.
 

Sean Osborne

Well-Known Member
Jillian,

None of the Bride of Christ deals with day to day affairs alone. Never has. It has been this way for over 1,900 years, since He sent the Holy Spirit to dwell within each of us.

I will pray that you and others who feel as you do receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Go to this website for the encouragement you seek. Amen.
 

bghtnpd4

Home with Jesus ... waiting for you all.
Jillian, if you had truly lost your zeal you wouldn't be here on the board. :nod Our zeal has it's ups and down, but the blessed hope will never be extinguished ! :yeah:
 
Very good thoughts, Sean.

We should understand that our view of current events as they line up with prophecy is not infallible. God has His own time line. Events may occur quickly or not to our expectation. I got trapped into thinking it would all be over within ten years…quite some time ago. Oh, and I was a posttribber back then!

Our work is to endure and persevere…to be out doing His work and staying close to Him on a daily basis – however long it takes. Yet still expect Him any time. Take heart and trust in Him.

1Co 2:9 but just as it is written, "THINGS WHICH EYE HAS NOT SEEN AND EAR HAS NOT HEARD, AND which HAVE NOT ENTERED THE HEART OF MAN, ALL THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM."
 
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