Narrow is the gate.... How narrow?

[Kem]

Have never heard this view before but it is really interesting and your reasoning is excellent.

I believe few is 1/10th of humanity, a tithe. My reasoning is that Yahweh claims a tithe for Himself. Even in The New Testament this idea is carried forward. In Luke 17:11-19, ten leperous men appear before Yeshua. He sends them to show themselves to the priests and along the way, they are healed. Amazingly only one of those men, a tithe, returned to Yeshua to thank Him. I could be wrong of course, but ten is such an important number in The Bible, but we really don't know why.

Speaking on a purely a Biblical basis I can tell you 3 denotes spiritual perfection, 5 is associated with grace, 9 with judgement but 10 is a bit harder to nail down. I've really come to believe that 10 is related to that which belongs to Yahweh such as the Ten Commandments. That's just my :mho:

 

[TBOHC]

Jesus said few will enter. What is considered "few"? I ask because this topic has come up in some of my personal conversations lately. It was also a question on gracethrufaith.com the other day. If we take this in a very literal sense, we're looking at what? Three out of every 100 people? Wouldn't that seemingly limit those on earth today to about 210 million people possibly entering Heaven out of the 7 billion people on the planet today? Or, are we to look at it like few from the people on earth in total will enter Heaven? That is an even scarier thought. It would mean even fewer people are going. This chapter always confounds me. If everyone who believes Jesus is the son of God, died for us, was raised from the dead 3 days later and that he is the only way.... Well, wouldn't you think the numbers would be MUCH higher? It's a pretty simple belief to hold. But.... If Jesus himself is saying narrow is the gate and few will enter, how does that go with what I read here and elsewhere? Some believe the Rapture will devastate the world because so many people being taken. I've always disagreed and think the number will be far fewer than what most think, but I have nothing to back that up with. It's just a theory of mine. So, how many is "few" and why did Jesus not say "many will enter" when believing is so simple? Maybe I'm just confused by the lack of belief in our generation?

1 Peter 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

 

[EnRapturedwithChrist]

I happen to believe about 70% of people that ever lived will be saved.

 

[livingskies]

I happen to believe about 70% of people that ever lived will be saved.

Really? What kind of things led you to believe that? Curious, as I have never heard such an optimistic number...

 

[EnRapturedwithChrist]

Really? What kind of things led you to believe that? Curious, as I have never heard such an optimistic number...

Consider that unborn children that die will go to heaven. Also consider that children below the age of accountability will go to heaven.

Infant mortality rates were extremely, extremely high prior to the 20th century.

A good estimate of all the stillborn children, children that died in the womb or children that died at an early age comprises about 70% (or even higher) of the people that ever lived.

Now, I don't see this as invalidating what Jesus said. Children are innocent before God and until they reached an age of accountability they wouldn't be seeking the narrow gate and entering it. I do believe that the overall number of people that are saved past the age of accountability will be few.

So, I see Almighty God as winning a spiritual victory (He is Righteous, Holy and Just and sin will be dealt with forever. Hallelujah!) as well as a numerical victory.

 

[livingskies]

Ahhhhh! I never would have thought of that!!!! :

 

[BuzzardHut]

Jesus said few will enter. What is considered "few"? I ask because this topic has come up in some of my personal conversations lately. It was also a question on gracethrufaith.com the other day. If we take this in a very literal sense, we're looking at what? Three out of every 100 people? Wouldn't that seemingly limit those on earth today to about 210 million people possibly entering Heaven out of the 7 billion people on the planet today? Or, are we to look at it like few from the people on earth in total will enter Heaven? That is an even scarier thought. It would mean even fewer people are going. This chapter always confounds me. If everyone who believes Jesus is the son of God, died for us, was raised from the dead 3 days later and that he is the only way.... Well, wouldn't you think the numbers would be MUCH higher? It's a pretty simple belief to hold. But.... If Jesus himself is saying narrow is the gate and few will enter, how does that go with what I read here and elsewhere? Some believe the Rapture will devastate the world because so many people being taken. I've always disagreed and think the number will be far fewer than what most think, but I have nothing to back that up with. It's just a theory of mine. So, how many is "few" and why did Jesus not say "many will enter" when believing is so simple? Maybe I'm just confused by the lack of belief in our generation?

Only those who have faith in the shed blood of Jesus for their salvation.

 

[iSong6:3]

I believe few is 1/10th of humanity, a tithe. My reasoning is that Yahweh claims a tithe for Himself. Even in The New Testament this idea is carried forward. In Luke 17:11-19, ten leperous men appear before Yeshua. He sends them to show themselves to the priests and along the way, they are healed. Amazingly only one of those men, a tithe, returned to Yeshua to thank Him. I could be wrong of course, but ten is such an important number in The Bible, but we really don't know why.

Speaking on a purely a Biblical basis I can tell you 3 denotes spiritual perfection, 5 is associated with grace, 9 with judgement but 10 is a bit harder to nail down. I've really come to believe that 10 is related to that which belongs to Yahweh such as the Ten Commandments. That's just my :mho:

Sister, that presupposes that Calvinism is correct, and God predetermines who will be saved - one-tenth. It's not, and He doesn't (based on the testimony of the Word of God.).

 

[iSong6:3]

Revelation 7:9, one example, speaks of a "great multitude which no one could count" saved in the Trib, and the Bible leaves it at that. There are times when we're supposed to know a number, such as the approximately 3000 we're told who were saved in Acts 2:41.

We're not told what percent of mankind will be saved, or the total number. I trust there's a reason for that.

Matthew 7:13-14 is about a truth not related to mathematical formulations, imo. That goes beyond the scope of what we're told and into some speculations that may linger in our heads and be unhelpful.

: Not sure why we in this culture seem to want to slap numbers on things so much. :

That said, I know no one in this thread was being dogmatic at all, just offering thoughts. I just thought I'd give mine too. :

 

[Ducati]

If your ever accused of being "narrow minded" in your faith....then your on the right road. reach

 

[annieG]

If your ever accused of being "narrow minded" in your faith....then your on the right road. reach

All the time!

 

[Mustang]

I've thought of this also. What about the person that just believes Jesus existed? Like, sure I believe he was alive 2000 years back or so.
Such person would believe, but had not actually asked him to be his personal savior, does that make sense? any thoughts on it?

 

[livin_in_the_Son]

I've thought of this also. What about the person that just believes Jesus existed? Like, sure I believe he was alive 2000 years back or so.
Such person would believe, but had not actually asked him to be his personal savior, does that make sense? any thoughts on it?

That's head knowledge, not heart knowledge, so they wouldn't be saved IMHO. There was no spiritual transaction in the case you mentioned. There are plenty of people, Jews, and Muslims, to name a few, that believe that Jesus was real...but that is where their belief ends. Even secular scientists have admitted that a man named Jesus lived, and was crucified on a cross. If that was enough, than the gate would be wide, and not narrow.

 

[iSong6:3]

The word for trust in the Bible means more than intellectual assent, and we know the demons believe and tremble. But trusting in the Lord is like this illustration I've heard:

You are at street level and need to get up to the 50th floor of a building. You are aware there are elevators. You understand how they work. You understand they're there to transport you.

But until you trust and commit up yourself to that belief by actually stepping on to that elevator, you don't trust in it.

Similarly, Biblical faith is relying on what God says by stepping out on to it , not just an intellectual assent.

James 2:19-26 says it best. :


ETA: And what livin_in_the_Son and livingskies said! . Salvific faith means to believe and trust by accepting the gift of salvation - the transaction.

 

[livingskies]

I've thought of this also. What about the person that just believes Jesus existed? Like, sure I believe he was alive 2000 years back or so.
Such person would believe, but had not actually asked him to be his personal savior, does that make sense? any thoughts on it?

I agree with livin, that is not saving faith. One must realize one's hopeless state and recognize the need for a savior, and then recognize/accept/ take upon Jesus as that one and only Savior. There is no other way. Its a change of mind (repentance) of who you are (a sinner, desperately, hopelessly, and completely alienated from a holy God, your Creator) and who Jesus is (the Messiah foretold in the OT, come in the flesh as fully God and fully man, who led a sinless life under God's law, was crucified in order to take upon himself the sins of the world for anyone and everyone who believes, and resurrected to new life on the third day)

 

[Mustang]

Thank you Livingskies that was an excellent post, it really put my question into perspective for me.

 

[Micki]

Sister, that presupposes that Calvinism is correct, and God predetermines who will be saved - one-tenth. It's not, and He doesn't (based on the testimony of the Word of God.).

Interesting. I've never studied Calvinism, I didn't know they think who will be saved is predetermined. I don't believe in any predetermination, after all, "God is not willing that any should perish". It seems to me He has predetermined we all should be saved, but we have to do our part, believe on Yeshua. I know that living outside of time and being omniscient, El Shaddai knows and has always known who will accept the wonderful gift of salvation and who will not, even before that person is conceived. I just happen to think scripture hints at the percentage of people who through free will choose Yeshua.

 

[livingskies]

Micki - I think we can only comprehend these things dimly (as through a mirror) - these are concepts that are difficult.for our human and limited minds to understand fully! (I mean, who can truly comprehend the trinity? Three separate persons but.one God! Or the incarnation - fully God and yet fully man! And still one God, but during Jesus time on earth partially subjected to the limits of time and space. ?!?! I know I personally can't truly understand these things!). We try to understand best we can, because that's what we humans do!

This is why we step out in faith and believe what God's word tells us, and why it is so important to rely on the Holy Spirit to guide us into truth. None of us fully understands truth or sound doctrine completely. We are all human and even the best teachers and leaders of the faith err. We are subject to our limited comprehension, but we trust in the grace of God and live by faith in what our current understanding is. As I grow in Christ my understanding is made clearer and yet most days I just long to be able to just KNOW all truth.

Someday we will see clearly, face to face!!!

 

[Micki]

Micki - I think we can only comprehend these things dimly (as through a mirror) - these are concepts that are difficult.for our human and limited minds to understand fully! (I mean, who can truly comprehend the trinity? Three separate persons but.one God! Or the incarnation - fully God and yet fully man! And still one God, but during Jesus time on earth partially subjected to the limits of time and space. ?!?! I know I personally can't truly understand these things!). We try to understand best we can, because that's what we humans do!

This is why we step out in faith and believe what God's word tells us, and why it is so important to rely on the Holy Spirit to guide us into truth. None of us fully understands truth or sound doctrine completely. We are all human and even the best teachers and leaders of the faith err. We are subject to our limited comprehension, but we trust in the grace of God and live by faith in what our current understanding is. As I grow in Christ my understanding is made clearer and yet most days I just long to be able to just KNOW all truth.

Someday we will see clearly, face to face!!!

I totally agree we are looking through that glass dimly. I'm still trying to understand how Yeshua could be eternal, having always existed, and yet be described as "begotten". In the end all there is is faith, that which the just live by.

 

[ReadyforSupper]

I've thought of this also. What about the person that just believes Jesus existed? Like, sure I believe he was alive 2000 years back or so.
Such person would believe, but had not actually asked him to be his personal savior, does that make sense? any thoughts on it?

Mustang, my favorite car, I've run into that exact problem with the people I am witnessing to in the Middle East.

In every single circumstance, believe it or not, the reason they feel that they are in line with Christianity is because of the misuse of John 3:16...

It is one of the most dangerous verses to use if only using that part. It is the first part of a sentence.
John 3:17 lays out the rest, but, nobody ever quotes it... It is actually the most important part of the scripture!

For example, I have two friends, Sharif and Najm . Sharif lives in Bangladesh, he is Sunni Muslim, his brother runs a Madrasa .Najm lives in Damascus and is the son of a very wealthy banker.

BOTH of these young men have very proudly quoted John 3:16 to me and have told me that they do believe in Jesus, only they call him Isa in their language.

Both men are adamant that because they believe that Jesus was real, they are saved.

We have had some very colorful conversations about John 3:17, which is very direct and very to the point and why it is always left out baffles me.