Messianic Congregations....?

Ducati

Well-Known Member
Matthew 7:22,23

The other day while speaking with a couple of JW's, a very kind, gracious guy walked up and engaged in our conversation - he is a member of a local Messianic Congregation here where I live. To make a long conversation short - we walked away from the JW's and he started out our conversation with Matthew 7:22,23. Basically saying that Christianity today is what Jesus was speaking of here in Matthew 7.
Of the 3 major religions of the world today - Judaism, Muslim, and Christianity - that Christianity is the only one that uses Jesus' name the way Matthew 7 is describing it because we don't observe all the festivals and feasts etc. Basically "affirming" that the Messianic way IS THE TRUE WAY.....? :rules
What through me off about this was his devotion to lifting up the name of Jesus and His Lordship as Messiah. I was always under the assumption they didn't believe that.

BETH JUDAH MESSIANIC CONGREGATION in Ormond Beach Florida - I was tempted to check it out, should I ? :noidea2
 

Work4Peanuts

I like being just a Well-Known Member
The church is not held to mosaic law. Period. The law never saves anyone, it only points one from sin to Christ. It is grace only, through faith, that saves. Paul talks extensively throughout his epistles about the law and the need to maintain Jewish traditions and rituals in order to be saved (you don't.) He even calls Peter out for trying to maintain Judaism around Jews while holding a different standard around Gentiles.

I would be very careful of this congregation. Actually, scratch that. I would not visit this congregation.

That said, there are Messianic congregations that teach grace through faith, and an understanding of festivals and Jewish culture because they are Jewish Christians, and understanding the culture and background of the Bible helps one understand the Bible.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
OK there are Messianic congregations and then there is a new movement afoot called the Hebrew Roots movement. Confusingly Hebrew Roots used to just be understanding the festivals and laws as pointing to Christ. Now that describes a new movement demanding full compliance with the Law of Moses in addition to the Cross. That goes WAY off the rails into heresy. It's a new cult!

But not all Messianic congregations are like that. Only some, but many are being infiltrated by these legalists from the HYPER Hebrew Roots. It's important to KNOW the differences before ever going near any of them. They call themselves Messianics, but like Mormons, calling themselves Christians, it doesn't make them so. And like Mormons, if you don't know how to combat their careful sales pitch of heresy, you are better off avoiding them.

Ken Johnson has just written a new book called "The Ancient Origins of the Hebrew Roots Movement" - and in it he explains what the differences are between them and the Messianics. He makes a distinction between the teaching of Hebrew cultural understandings (roots) and the new Hebrew Roots Movement which he calls the HYPER Hebrew Roots. That is a good way of thinking of it. These are HYPER people who have gone way out in left field. They are into flat out heresy but because they still call themselves Messianics, they are introducing confusion, and that is a trick the enemy has used since the beginning.

Look for Ken's book. It's against the rules to link it on Amazon so I can't help you find it. But do a search and it should get you to his new book. He also has a teaching series on YouTube that is quite good and he has been discussing this a lot.

For now STAY FAR AWAY from that group. If you don't know what the error is, and have a clear understanding of where it goes off the Biblical rails, you can't help them see the truth, you will only come into confusion and error yourself.

And the rule of thumb is this:
If they preach that we are still under the Law, that we HAVE to keep the festivals, follow the Law of Moses, not just the moral law given to Noah, then that is HYPER Hebrew Roots at work, NOT just a nice Messianic congregation into enjoying a Passover meal as a type of Christ. As Peanuts points out above, they are preaching a gospel of works, not of grace.

Here is what Ken says:
Genesis 9 teaches that God gave moral law to all nations after the Flood. This is called Noahide Law. The apostle Paul taught that the Law of Moses, given at Mount Sinai, was added to Noahide Law to create a government structure for ancient Israel.

Gentile nations were never under this Mosaic Covenant, and the Mosaic Covenant was set aside for the Jewish believers in Messiah at Jesus’ first coming.

This is taught by Protestant, Roman Catholic, and Eastern Orthodox denominations, as well as most cults.

Noahide Law is taught by the ancient church fathers, the Talmud, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and many other very ancient manuscripts. It was the doctrine of the Pharisees, Sadducees, and the Essenes.

In contrast, only the Hebrew Roots Movement believes that Noahide Law never existed and that every single person is still required to keep the Law of Moses: the Sabbath, kosher food laws, sacrifices, festivals, circumcision, etc. The Essenes (keepers of the Dead Sea Scrolls) excommunicated Hebrew Roots believers from their order, calling them heretics.

Back to Margery here, this means this cultic heresy has been around for a very long time. It's just now having a resurgence. And it's one to avoid like the plague.
 

Luke12

Well-Known Member
OK there are Messianic congregations and then there is a new movement afoot called the Hebrew Roots movement. Confusingly Hebrew Roots used to just be understanding the festivals and laws as pointing to Christ. Now that describes a new movement demanding full compliance with the Law of Moses in addition to the Cross. That goes WAY off the rails into heresy. It's a new cult!

But not all Messianic congregations are like that. Only some, but many are being infiltrated by these legalists from the HYPER Hebrew Roots. It's important to KNOW the differences before ever going near any of them. They call themselves Messianics, but like Mormons, calling themselves Christians, it doesn't make them so. And like Mormons, if you don't know how to combat their careful sales pitch of heresy, you are better off avoiding them.

Ken Johnson has just written a new book called "The Ancient Origins of the Hebrew Roots Movement" - and in it he explains what the differences are between them and the Messianics. He makes a distinction between the teaching of Hebrew cultural understandings (roots) and the new Hebrew Roots Movement which he calls the HYPER Hebrew Roots. That is a good way of thinking of it. These are HYPER people who have gone way out in left field. They are into flat out heresy but because they still call themselves Messianics, they are introducing confusion, and that is a trick the enemy has used since the beginning.

Look for Ken's book. It's against the rules to link it on Amazon so I can't help you find it. But do a search and it should get you to his new book. He also has a teaching series on YouTube that is quite good and he has been discussing this a lot.

For now STAY FAR AWAY from that group. If you don't know what the error is, and have a clear understanding of where it goes off the Biblical rails, you can't help them see the truth, you will only come into confusion and error yourself.

And the rule of thumb is this:
If they preach that we are still under the Law, that we HAVE to keep the festivals, follow the Law of Moses, not just the moral law given to Noah, then that is HYPER Hebrew Roots at work, NOT just a nice Messianic congregation into enjoying a Passover meal as a type of Christ. As Peanuts points out above, they are preaching a gospel of works, not of grace.

Here is what Ken says:
Genesis 9 teaches that God gave moral law to all nations after the Flood. This is called Noahide Law. The apostle Paul taught that the Law of Moses, given at Mount Sinai, was added to Noahide Law to create a government structure for ancient Israel.

Gentile nations were never under this Mosaic Covenant, and the Mosaic Covenant was set aside for the Jewish believers in Messiah at Jesus’ first coming.

This is taught by Protestant, Roman Catholic, and Eastern Orthodox denominations, as well as most cults.

Noahide Law is taught by the ancient church fathers, the Talmud, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and many other very ancient manuscripts. It was the doctrine of the Pharisees, Sadducees, and the Essenes.

In contrast, only the Hebrew Roots Movement believes that Noahide Law never existed and that every single person is still required to keep the Law of Moses: the Sabbath, kosher food laws, sacrifices, festivals, circumcision, etc. The Essenes (keepers of the Dead Sea Scrolls) excommunicated Hebrew Roots believers from their order, calling them heretics.

Back to Margery here, this means this cultic heresy has been around for a very long time. It's just now having a resurgence. And it's one to avoid like the plague.
Concur with this about Hebrew Roots. I've ranted on here in the past about their teaching but its bothering me less and less these days. In fact some of the people I know who are still involved in this deny most of the New Testament. I've had to block a few of them from my Facebook page.
 

kathymendel

Well-Known Member
Haven't heard of the Hebrew Roots before. Sorry to hear they are getting an ear from fellow Jews...............sounds like they will lead many astray in what may be a genuine search for their true messiah: JESUS.

My only connection to a messianic temple was when my dh was dying of cancer. He did not want the Jewish service that his family would have expected. He wanted to share Jesus Christ with them in his death, as he had never discussed it with them in his life (except for his two kids and twin sister at the very end, who were not happy about it and asked no questions). He commissioned me to make sure it happened. So, while I was tending him, I was also trying to find someone to make funeral arrangements that would grant his wishes. It was almost impossible. If you weren't a member of their congregation you were out of luck. I finally got through to a rabbi - my last straw really - who began to say the same thing to me. In desperation, I asked him to hold his "no" answer and come visit in our home and talk to us. I said I would accept whatever he decided after he did that. He came.......... he visited with Paul, me and our two believing daughters........(and Paul's Jewish daughter)...... and, we shared our faith AND our concern for Paul's extended Jewish family. We knew that if they didn't hear it at Paul's service, they would most likely never hear it. This precious man, at the end of our conversation, said, "God has shown me that this is a divine calling, and I would be priviledged to officiate at your service." I have so much gratefulness in my heart that God moved in those moments, and Paul was able to have his wishes fulfilled. Sadly, it seems the saving words spoken fell on deaf ears. They never spoke of Paul again...........and, shortly after the service, they never spoke to me again.......... and, they are as lost as ever. I pray there will be others who will come and share the life-giving words to them, but that is in God's hands now. I am done. I fulfilled what I was commissioned to do...........with the help of that sweet rabbi.

I have such deep respect for the messianic movement............ it is not readily accepted - nor even tolerated - by the Jewish society. This rabbi was not treated well or with respect by the extended family present that day, for what he did for Paul, and for me. Reaching Jews for Christ is not an easy task at all. I pray that God will bless them in their outward reach to other Jews.

Just thought I'd share...........
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
I have such deep respect for the messianic movement............ it is not readily accepted - nor even tolerated - by the Jewish society. This rabbi was not treated well or with respect by the extended family present that day, for what he did for Paul, and for me. Reaching Jews for Christ is not an easy task at all. I pray that God will bless them in their outward reach to other Jews.
I share that respect. And may God continue to bless our faithful brother in the Lord, that rabbi who did his best to reach Paul's family. Praying with you that they would yet find that moment where they realize and turn to Christ. One sows, another waters, and another reaps.

The Messianic congregations who are faithful to the Lord are being troubled by the Hyper Hebrew Roots in the same way as the early Jewish Christian churches were by the Judaizers. Infiltrating and bringing fear and confusion. Most Messianic congregations are good and safe. But a few that call themselves Messianic are really better called Hyper Hebrew Roots. It's a new wrinkle in the attack on the body of Christ.

HUGS Kathy! Love Margery
 
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crossnote

fully dependent upon His grace
Matthew 7:22,23

The other day while speaking with a couple of JW's, a very kind, gracious guy walked up and engaged in our conversation - he is a member of a local Messianic Congregation here where I live. To make a long conversation short - we walked away from the JW's and he started out our conversation with Matthew 7:22,23. Basically saying that Christianity today is what Jesus was speaking of here in Matthew 7.
Of the 3 major religions of the world today - Judaism, Muslim, and Christianity - that Christianity is the only one that uses Jesus' name the way Matthew 7 is describing it because we don't observe all the festivals and feasts etc. Basically "affirming" that the Messianic way IS THE TRUE WAY.....? :rules
What through me off about this was his devotion to lifting up the name of Jesus and His Lordship as Messiah. I was always under the assumption they didn't believe that.

BETH JUDAH MESSIANIC CONGREGATION in Ormond Beach Florida - I was tempted to check it out, should I ? :noidea2
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
(Mat 7:22-23)

Many today may find others in MT 7:22-23, but usually not for reasons they think. This group in Mt 7 were relying on their good works and service to lay a claim on the Kingdom.
The better attititude is found here, spoken by our Lord...

Luke 17:7-10 (KJV) But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat? And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink? Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not. So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
 

Lady Di

New Member
Disclaimer: I am the daughter of a Jewish believer, so I have a vested interested in witnessing to Jewish people. They need Jesus like we all do. With that said, I have been in both a Messianic congregation and a Hebrew Roots one. And yes, there is a difference between them. For the most part, Messianic congregations exist to make Jewish pre-believers comfortable with the idea of Jesus being the Jewish Messiah. They have a real fear of losing their Jewish identity. Hebrew Roots congregations seem to be mostly Gentiles who claim they are "Israel" and therefore try to keep the Law. They base this on being grafted into the Olive Tree spoken of in Romans 11. To me, this is a subtle form of replacement theology. Jews play a major part in the end times scenario and are to remain a distinct people group within the body of Christ. Needless to say, we left the Hebrew Roots group. I'm still working this out and studying the whole issue.
 

Eric Nicholas

Well-Known Member
Hebrew Roots make me especially sick. I'm tired of people messing with Jews and their heritage. The thought of a bunch of wannabes on YouTube and varied places, especially in the pampered dwellings of suburbia, replacing God's people, really turns my knuckles white. Ugh, perhaps I agitate too easily. Yeah, a lot of that going around lately.
 
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