Marriage of Angels

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I'm gonna just come out and ask it since I don't have a clue, but figured surely someone here could break it down for granny. What is the importance of circumcision? Can someone explain the importance of it to me? Thanks in advance :offtopic
 

Len

Well-Known Member
What is the importance of circumcision? Can someone explain the importance of it to me? Thanks in advance
I think that circumcision was a sign of rememberance that "he" belonged to God and God's chosen people and each time he went to the "loo" it would remind the guy that he was "of" a peculiar people unlike other cultures with many gods etc ..... it may of had physical beneifts as well ..... but an aside I always found it amazing that it was done on the eighth day as ordered by God all those centuries ago, and today we know that it is only on that day that vitamin K and something else is at its highest levels in a male which aided in clotting and healing (who but God would know that then?) ................. I am sure there is more to circumcision by way of commandment from God and the symbolism if you wanted to know more
 

Salluz

Well-Known Member
Ok, thank you for clarifying. This is the most disturbing thread I have read since I joined RR.
I've got to say, it isn't very fun to read a thread where I'm implicitly called creepy and disturbing over and over. Please keep in mind that there's a person on the other end of the discussion. I was being vulnerable and opening up about a block I have in my heart to fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, and to be met with disgust is pretty discouraging, you know. I'll get over it, but someone who was in a more fragile mental state might not. Try to be careful, eh?

About your statement that God only told Adam and Eve to multiply before the fall because he knew that they would sin, I just can't make sense of that. If physical intimacy is evil or disgusting like you're implying, God would have been telling Adam and Eve to do something not "Good" before the world even had things that were not good. If it was an option before the fall, you have to admit it was included when God called creation good. Procreation isn't the only function physical intimacy. The intimacy itself is reason enough, and even has an entire book of the bible talking about it (ever read song of solomon? Is that disturbing and creepy?)

The idea that physical or pleasurable means bad comes from a from of religious syncretism called Christo-platoism. It was adopted by Catholicism and propagated throughout the centuries. Those are the same people that argue against a resurrection thinking that people would be better off spirits for eternity and to not have a body because of Plato's idea that physical = imperfect and far from the god he envisions. Adopting another religion's views on sex should be frowned upon. What does the bible say about it? That's what you should go off of. I don't understand how you're getting the idea that intimacy is somehow something that was created by God with sin in mind. Wouldn't He have wanted you to exist even if Adam and Eve didn't sin?
 

ByGod'sGrace

Well-Known Member
I've got to say, it isn't very fun to read a thread where I'm implicitly called creepy and disturbing over and over. Please keep in mind that there's a person on the other end of the discussion. I was being vulnerable and opening up about a block I have in my heart to fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, and to be met with disgust is pretty discouraging, you know. I'll get over it, but someone who was in a more fragile mental state might not. Try to be careful, eh?

About your statement that God only told Adam and Eve to multiply before the fall because he knew that they would sin, I just can't make sense of that. If physical intimacy is evil or disgusting like you're implying, God would have been telling Adam and Eve to do something not "Good" before the world even had things that were not good. If it was an option before the fall, you have to admit it was included when God called creation good. Procreation isn't the only function physical intimacy. The intimacy itself is reason enough, and even has an entire book of the bible talking about it (ever read song of solomon? Is that disturbing and creepy?)

The idea that physical or pleasurable means bad comes from a from of religious syncretism called Christo-platoism. It was adopted by Catholicism and propagated throughout the centuries. Those are the same people that argue against a resurrection thinking that people would be better off spirits for eternity and to not have a body because of Plato's idea that physical = imperfect and far from the god he envisions. Adopting another religion's views on sex should be frowned upon. What does the bible say about it? That's what you should go off of. I don't understand how you're getting the idea that intimacy is somehow something that was created by God with sin in mind. Wouldn't He have wanted you to exist even if Adam and Eve didn't sin?
I didn't call anyone disturbing, I called the postulation without evidence disturbing (the original article and the discussion without scriptural evidence to back it up). Without Biblical evidence to support an idea, things can become whatever in our humans minds we think we want or what we think is correct. For instance, if people believe there is sex after the Millennial Reign and no marriage, then do you have one partner for eternity, or many...etc? In our human minds, we elevate this type of experience as the highest that can be attained on Earth, which can lead to many roads of..."if it isn't in heaven/on the New Earth, then that doesn't sound like heaven to me." Jesus was very clear on the topic regarding this type of relationship (in our glorified bodies, we will be like the angels). I will close with a quote from C.S. Lewis regarding this topic, which I believe expresses what I am trying to express (except more gracefully, and if I have offended you, Salluz, please accept my humble apologies):

C.S. Lewis writes, “The letter and spirit of scripture, and of all Christianity, forbid us to suppose that life in the New Creation will be a sexual life; and this reduces our imagination to the withering alternatives either of bodies which are hardly recognizable as human bodies at all or else of a perpetual fast. As regards the fast, I think our present outlook might be like that of a small boy who, on being told that the sexual act was the highest bodily pleasure, should immediately ask whether you ate chocolates at the same time. On receiving the answer ‘No,’ he might regard [the] absence of chocolates as the chief characteristic of sexuality. In vain would you tell him that the reason why lovers in their raptures don’t bother about chocolates is that they have something better to think of. The boy knows chocolate: he does not know the positive thing that excludes it. We are in the same position. We know the sexual life; we do not know, except in glimpses, the other thing which, in Heaven, will leave no room for it.”
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
I was thinking that, too! Although won't all children automatically be upgraded to an adult age in heaven? I was thinking, if I never get to be a mom on Earth, maybe I can be a mom type figure during the Millennial Reign, when there are still children being born? These are things I think about when I feel sad I don't have children of my own.
Its hard for me to believe that His plan is for babies to remain as babies in their Glorified bodies. We know a Gloridied body is the perfect new eternal body, so I believe old folks upon death, babies aborted, miscarriage, or other situations will have the perfect body, at some predetermined adult age. We cant really know for sure since the bible does not give clarification on this topic.
 

ByGod'sGrace

Well-Known Member
Its hard for me to believe that His plan is for babies to remain as babies in their Glorified bodies. We know a Gloridied body is the perfect new eternal body, so I believe old folks upon death, babies aborted, miscarriage, or other situations will have the perfect body, at some predetermined adult age. We cant really know for sure since the bible does not give clarification on this topic.
Well said.
 

DanLMP

Well-Known Member
C.S. Lewis writes, “The letter and spirit of scripture, and of all Christianity, forbid us to suppose that life in the New Creation will be a sexual life; and this reduces our imagination to the withering alternatives either of bodies which are hardly recognizable as human bodies at all or else of a perpetual fast. As regards the fast, I think our present outlook might be like that of a small boy who, on being told that the sexual act was the highest bodily pleasure, should immediately ask whether you ate chocolates at the same time. On receiving the answer ‘No,’ he might regard [the] absence of chocolates as the chief characteristic of sexuality. In vain would you tell him that the reason why lovers in their raptures don’t bother about chocolates is that they have something better to think of. The boy knows chocolate: he does not know the positive thing that excludes it. We are in the same position. We know the sexual life; we do not know, except in glimpses, the other thing which, in Heaven, will leave no room for it.”
...but I still like chocolate and can see no reason to be denied chocolate just because there is something better than it.

And Lewis presupposes that the better something will not include anything like chocolate. The better something might be a better chocolate.

Once again, we'll find out when we get there.
 

ByGod'sGrace

Well-Known Member
...but I still like chocolate and can see no reason to be denied chocolate just because there is something better than it.

And Lewis presupposes that the better something will not include anything like chocolate. The better something might be a better chocolate.

Once again, we'll find out when we get there.
Well, my friend, we can agree to disagree. It seems I was too harsh in this thread and hurt feelings when I did not intend to. I am the last person in the world to hurt people with my words, and I'm going to refrain from posting so adamantly in the future.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
Well, my friend, we can agree to disagree. It seems I was too harsh in this thread and hurt feelings when I did not intend to. I am the last person in the world to hurt people with my words, and I'm going to refrain from posting so adamantly in the future.
I read every post, and you did not single out anyone, just disagreed with certain positions presented by others. I think all your posts were well thought out, and should not of offended anyone.

Keep posting, don't change.
 

ByGod'sGrace

Well-Known Member
I read every post, and you did not single out anyone, just disagreed with certain positions presented by others. I think all your posts were well thought out, and should not of offended anyone.

Keep posting, don't change.
THank you, Andy that means a lot. I am really sensitive to words so it is my worst nightmare to cause someone else pain with them. Anyway, thank you, that brought me some peace.
 

DanLMP

Well-Known Member
Well, my friend, we can agree to disagree. It seems I was too harsh in this thread and hurt feelings when I did not intend to. I am the last person in the world to hurt people with my words, and I'm going to refrain from posting so adamantly in the future.
It certainly is a topic that has a lot of emotional and intellectual baggage, but that is not always a good reason to avoid discussing it.

Opinions on the topic seem to be at opposite poles rather than the center. That's okay, lots of topics are.

And if you refrain from posting so adamantly in the future we will all miss your expression of your unique view, which needs to be heard so that we all can learn, even if your view doesn't agree with others.

In one sense we can view our time in this life as a "muddle period". We all muddle through trying to learn and align ourselves to our Father. None of us is completely right in what we believe but if we don't hear other views how can we learn and grow?
 

Jan51

Well-Known Member
Post Rapture Babies
By Jack Kelley

Question: It’s my understanding that during the rapture God takes babies out of the womb of unbelieving mothers. My question is what does the Lord do about nine months later when the world has a new round of babies in the tribulation that may not live past six years old? Are these some of the ones that will be serving in the temple day and night?

Answer: Since the Bible says life begins at conception (Psalm 51:5) and that all children belong to God (Romans 7:9), many scholars have assumed the pre-born will be taken in the rapture along with all other children.
Regarding the bolded part, I looked at that verse and don't see where he got that from it--?? Seems like quite a stretch to me, reading into Scripture what you would like it to say.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
Regarding the bolded part, I looked at that verse and don't see where he got that from it--?? Seems like quite a stretch to me, reading into Scripture what you would like it to say.
The children who are below the age of accountability, they all belong to God. Once they reach whatever, if there is an age of accountability, then wether or not they remain a child of God depends on if they become born again believers or not.

The Apostle Paul wrote in that verse that “he was alive before the law” which Jack interprets as meaning he was alive as in a child of God, before the law - meaning below the age of accountability. “But when the Commandant came, I died” meaning once above the age of accountability, he was dead without Jesus until he later confessed Jesus as his Savior, thus becoming a child of God again.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
I should have just posted directly from Jack, so here it is.

Question: In your article about miscarriage, you wrote, “The Bible says life begins at conception (Psalm 139:13-14) and children under the age of understanding have eternal life (Romans 7:9).” I fail to understand how Romans 7:9 has anything to say about the age of children, or their understanding. Please explain.

Answer: The general context of Romans 7 is Paul’s claim that rather than save him, the Law exposed the extent of man’s sinfulness, condemning him to death. Being a Jew who was obviously alive at the time, he wrote, “For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died”(Romans 7:9). (The word for “without” also means “apart from”.) Since he was physically alive he had to have been referring to spiritual, or eternal life. In Judaism children are not accountable under the Law, therefore their sins are not counted against them. They have eternal life.

When they reach the age of accountability, they become responsible for their sins. They acknowledge their accountability in a ceremony called bat mitzvah for girls, usually held at age 12, and bar mitzvah for boys age 13. This is what Paul meant by saying, “The commandment came, sin revived, and I died.” So as soon as Paul became old enough to be accountable for his sins, he was scheduled for death, already as good as dead.
No official written references to the method for conducting bar or bat mitzvah ceremonies existed during Paul’s time. But the practice was obviously well known enough that Paul could expect even his gentile readers to understand what he was talking about. Since Paul was adamantly opposed to following tradition for its own sake, he must have known that belief in an age of accountability was legitimate from God’s perspective.
The age at which a child becomes accountable has to do more with attaining the intellectual ability to understand the sin/ salvation issue than reaching a certain age and that’s why it’s not specified in the Bible.

https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/the-age-of-accountability/
 

Work4Peanuts

Well-Known Member
We all have seasons in our lives. I see sex as something of a "season" that we have here before we go to heaven.

When I was a child, I used to eat play-dough. I enjoyed eating play-dough. It was good. (Don't judge!) I am an adult now, and even though I have the money to buy my own play-dough and the time to sit down and really appreciate the finer qualities of play-dough, I have absolutely no desire to eat play-dough. There is no one who will stop me from eating play-dough, but that time in my life has passed. There are other things I would rather spend my money and time on.

When the God who initially invented sex tells me that I will not marry in heaven (the only lawful way to have sex) and that He has something better, I'm not going to worry about it. It's switching from play-dough to filet mignon.
 

mattfivefour

Administrator
Staff member
We all have seasons in our lives. I see sex as something of a "season" that we have here before we go to heaven.

When I was a child, I used to eat play-dough. I enjoyed eating play-dough. It was good. (Don't judge!) I am an adult now, and even though I have the money to buy my own play-dough and the time to sit down and really appreciate the finer qualities of play-dough, I have absolutely no desire to eat play-dough. There is no one who will stop me from eating play-dough, but that time in my life has passed. There are other things I would rather spend my money and time on.

When the God who initially invented sex tells me that I will not marry in heaven (the only lawful way to have sex) and that He has something better, I'm not going to worry about it. It's switching from play-dough to filet mignon.
Excellent post!!!
 
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