Mark Of The Beast - Not High Tech?

JohnS

New Member
* Admin removed *
He contends that the mark will only be a visible id of who gives allegiance to the beast and will have nothing to do with chips or other technology.
Quoting...
"This is a very important point. Though modern technology will enable the antichrist and false prophet to bring about a cashless society and control all commerce on earth, we must differentiate between this technology and the mark of the beast, for the technology itself is not the mark."
Per other prophecy teachers insisting that the mark will be a chip under the skin, a barcode or other technology, states... "This is not the case. The mark itself will identify allegiance to the antichrist, but that is separate and distinct from the technology that enables him to enforce his economic system... Notice that the mark will be on people,not in them... It will be on the right hand or head and will be visible (perhaps like a tattoo), not hidden beneath the skin."
Thoughts?
Revelation 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

Does the mark cause a sore?
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
Revelation 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

Does the mark cause a sore?
All the bowl judgements are poured out, so IMO, its not the MOB that causes the sore. However, those who have the MOB will have the first bowl judgement poured on them causing them to have the foul and loathsome sores.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
I hadn’t thought of God not allowing His to recieve the MOB. However, tribulation saints are not OSAS, and they must endure in faith until the end. If what you posted is correct, than that would mean God knows who will endure, and those are who are His. Others who come to faith for a period of time, may still for whatever reason, take the MOB.
YES

Because Tribulation saints are not OSAS (once saved always saved) the point of verse 13 ("but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.") becomes a promise to the Tribulation saints who refuse the mark, and stand firm in that refusal, to their end of their life, or the end of the Tribulation, whichever it is that God fore ordains for them to endure.

Whether they die or whether they live till the end, (being hidden from the antichrist's enforcers and sustained in some way by God outside the economy of buying and selling), --they MUST remain steadfast in their resolve to refuse the mark or lose their Salvation.

Salvation is their final reward whether at death by martyrdom refusing the mark OR by remaining steadfast to the end of the Tribulation, refusing the mark as they run from one hiding place to another to survive as God allows.

Yes, I do think that there will be those who do come to some type of knowledge of God, but fail to remain firm in that, and are lost as they take the Mark. They will CONSENT to the Mark-- which is the ultimate blasphemy as pointed out upthread.

For those who refuse the Mark, those moments before they are killed, whatever that Mark is, is unable to take hold of them. God by His very command not to take the mark, must make a way for them to refuse it, no matter what is forced upon them.

Whatever the Mark is, it requires consent. BECAUSE people are able to refuse it. And because the Bible says they are killed for refusing.

That would seem impossible. Prisoners are forced into things all the time-- China doesn't need their prisoners to consent to death by removing their vital organs or doing medical experiments on them. If they want to put drugs or retroviruses or chips or tattoos on their prisoners, no consent is necessary.

We won't know till afterwards what that means-- is it because God doesn't allow that mark to show up--He supernaturally destroys it as they try to mark the Christian prisoner who remains firm in refusing?

Or is it that God forces the enemy into requiring consent? Perhaps Satan and the AC must gain consent for this Mark to be allowed.

There are limits to Satan's abilities. Boundaries beyond which he cannot act. This might be one.

We won't know how exactly, but we do know that this mark can be refused. And those who refuse are killed. They aren't able to be forced to take that mark. They are put to death instead.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
All the bowl judgements are poured out, so IMO, its not the MOB that causes the sore. However, those who have the MOB will have the first bowl judgement poured on them causing them to have the foul and loathsome sores.
Agree, that is actually a very important distinction. Too much speculation about the MOB causing the sores to appear at that point. The cause is spelled out in Scripture. It's the first bowl judgment. The ones who took the mark have no protection from this judgment.

Back to Moses, Egypt and the night of the first Passover. Those who belonged to God, who had the blood on the doorposts were not affected as the angel of death killed the firstborn. That angel had to pass over the ones covered by the blood of the lamb. Not allowed to touch them. But the unsaved, the ones not covered by the blood--they were fair game.

Revelation echoes that time. God supernaturally protected His own.

It's interesting because the purpose of the Tribulation is to draw the Jews out into the wilderness again as they flee from the AC to Bosrah or Petrah or wherever that place prepared in the wilderness is. In that time God is drawing them out of the world, and back to Him as their God, their Saviour and Provider. Just like He did as He brought them out of Egypt, he will again as He brings Egypt out of them.

Bookends for the Jews. What began in Egypt with Moses, ends by their King and Messiah coming back to save them and bring them into the promised Millennium. The church age hidden in the middle.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
Monkeypox comes to mind!
Nah.

When that 1st Bowl Judgment is poured out, God will have something far more nasty and it won't take its' sweet time infecting a few at a time who pass it on to others till all the sinners who took the mark are plagued with it.

It's all at once. No time to pass from one host to another, BAM, the whole world that took the mark is suffering. It doesn't behave like a plague or a pandemic. Even the quickest of those take their time to infect everyone.

This is instant. the bowl is poured out, and the sores break out on everyone who took the mark.

but on all those who haven't taken the mark, nothing, Nada, not a pimple or a pox, not a fever or a sore, nothing.

Nobody will be confused about what this is, and who caused it. They won't be able to blame it on an infection of the past. It's tied to the mark.

16 1 Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go, pour out the seven bowls of God’s wrath on the earth.”

2 The first angel went and poured out his bowl on the land, and ugly, festering sores broke out on the people who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
Nobody will be confused about what this is, and who caused it. They won't be able to blame it on an infection of the past. It's tied to the mark.

16 1 Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go, pour out the seven bowls of God’s wrath on the earth.”

2 The first angel went and poured out his bowl on the land, and ugly, festering sores broke out on the people who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image.
How horrible it will be for those who took the MOB, and then realize it was a mistake, there is a God, but they had refused to believe……The only thing worse will be whats waiting for them upon their death.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
How horrible it will be for those who took the MOB, and then realize it was a mistake, there is a God, but they had refused to believe……The only thing worse will be whats waiting for them upon their death.
That's what I see when I think about where my dad is, after refusing salvation over and over, including the night before he perished at the hands of the Canadian suicide by dr laws. I shared again, he listened again, and again he refused. Politely this time but refused.

He woke up too late. He is suffering the torments of hell and it's only going to get worse. It breaks my heart but it was his choice. Those who take that mark, will know sooner or later. I don't think they repent though, I think they are hardened in that choice by the time they take that Mark. Revelation chapter 16 v 10-11

10 The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in agony 11 and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.

It's their choice.

God doesn't send people to hell, they choose it. He offers a way out of the default setting which is hell for sinners if they don't accept God's free gift of Salvation paid for by Jesus on the cross.

Someday I won't remember his suffering. Someday God will take away that pain. God is not willing that any should perish, so it must hurt Him even more horribly. His beloved creation, the little children that are born here, created in His image. Choosing sin.

I try and tell those I can. God gave all of us free will choice. Choose life, choose God, accept HIS payment on Calvary. The alternative is horrific.

I agree.
 

Jan51

Well-Known Member
YES

Because Tribulation saints are not OSAS (once saved always saved) the point of verse 13 ("but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.") becomes a promise to the Tribulation saints who refuse the mark, and stand firm in that refusal, to their end of their life, or the end of the Tribulation, whichever it is that God fore ordains for them to endure.

Whether they die or whether they live till the end, (being hidden from the antichrist's enforcers and sustained in some way by God outside the economy of buying and selling), --they MUST remain steadfast in their resolve to refuse the mark or lose their Salvation.

Salvation is their final reward whether at death by martyrdom refusing the mark OR by remaining steadfast to the end of the Tribulation, refusing the mark as they run from one hiding place to another to survive as God allows.

Yes, I do think that there will be those who do come to some type of knowledge of God, but fail to remain firm in that, and are lost as they take the Mark. They will CONSENT to the Mark-- which is the ultimate blasphemy as pointed out upthread.

For those who refuse the Mark, those moments before they are killed, whatever that Mark is, is unable to take hold of them. God by His very command not to take the mark, must make a way for them to refuse it, no matter what is forced upon them.

Whatever the Mark is, it requires consent. BECAUSE people are able to refuse it. And because the Bible says they are killed for refusing.

That would seem impossible. Prisoners are forced into things all the time-- China doesn't need their prisoners to consent to death by removing their vital organs or doing medical experiments on them. If they want to put drugs or retroviruses or chips or tattoos on their prisoners, no consent is necessary.

We won't know till afterwards what that means-- is it because God doesn't allow that mark to show up--He supernaturally destroys it as they try to mark the Christian prisoner who remains firm in refusing?

Or is it that God forces the enemy into requiring consent? Perhaps Satan and the AC must gain consent for this Mark to be allowed.

There are limits to Satan's abilities. Boundaries beyond which he cannot act. This might be one.

We won't know how exactly, but we do know that this mark can be refused. And those who refuse are killed. They aren't able to be forced to take that mark. They are put to death instead.
Perhaps the reason the AC doesn't force it on people is the same reason God does not force salvation on us. God desires us to worship Him of our own free will, not forced worship. Rev. 13:4 says they worship the dragon and the beast. Satan wants people to choose to worship him, as he imitates God, and as his man, the AC, imitates Christ.
 

Kerbluey

Well-Known Member
I’m so sorry, Athenasius. That must’ve been devastating and frustrating. :pray for you.

I’ve been enjoying imagining how God will stop forced MOBs. So far my favorite is each mark giver who attempts to force it on someone will explode immediately, kind of like those that’ll go up in flames from the Two Witnesses.
 

WaitingOnHim

Renewed In Christ
That's what I see when I think about where my dad is, after refusing salvation over and over, including the night before he perished at the hands of the Canadian suicide by dr laws. I shared again, he listened again, and again he refused. Politely this time but refused.

He woke up too late. He is suffering the torments of hell and it's only going to get worse. It breaks my heart but it was his choice. Those who take that mark, will know sooner or later. I don't think they repent though, I think they are hardened in that choice by the time they take that Mark. Revelation chapter 16 v 10-11

10 The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in agony 11 and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.

It's their choice.

God doesn't send people to hell, they choose it. He offers a way out of the default setting which is hell for sinners if they don't accept God's free gift of Salvation paid for by Jesus on the cross.

Someday I won't remember his suffering. Someday God will take away that pain. God is not willing that any should perish, so it must hurt Him even more horribly. His beloved creation, the little children that are born here, created in His image. Choosing sin.

I try and tell those I can. God gave all of us free will choice. Choose life, choose God, accept HIS payment on Calvary. The alternative is horrific.

I agree.
:imsorry
 

Kerbluey

Well-Known Member
I believe the sores / boils God speaks of will be unbearably painful, like someone putting red-hot coals all over your body, continuously.
Combined with the stinging of the scorpion demon things, and the other righteous judgements, those who take the mark will suffer tremendously.

Yet they still curse God. That part is the most amazing to me. I think I’d be begging for some bit of mercy.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
Yet they still curse God. That part is the most amazing to me. I think I’d be begging for some bit of mercy.
You and me both. However, we’re thinking as Christians, not as the unsaved. Yet of those left left behind, many seem to get more defiant towards God, (especially after taking the MOB) as He has hardened their hearts, sent them a strong delusion, and they blasphemed the name of God.

2 Thessalonians 2:
The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Revelation 16:8-11
8 Then the fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and power was given to him to scorch men with fire. 9 And men were scorched with great heat, and they blasphemed the name of God who has power over these plagues; and they did not repent and give Him glory.
10 Then the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom became full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues because of the pain. 11 They blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and did not repent of their deeds.


Revelation 16:
21 And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great.
 

gtr1963

New Member
I find it really interesting that only the KJV uses the small word IN. All other versions that I have found use the word ON. (emphasis mine)

Revelation 13:16​

King James Version​

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark IN their right hand, or IN their foreheads:


Revelation 13:16​

New International Version​

16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark ON their right hands or ON their foreheads,


Revelation 13:16​

English Standard Version​

16 Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave,[a] to be marked ON the right hand or the forehead,

Strong's concordance in Greek renders the word as 'ON'. I got this from blueletterbible.com You can do a greek word search as well to see the word.
 

lismore

Well-Known Member
Thoughts?
It is difficult to say, the happy news is that we will not be here to see it! The events of the Tribulation will cause some disruption to technology, but I believe there has been some level of mitigation for this, for example secure data storage in un-networked, Faraday protected 'pods' that can withstand any virus or disaster. The core operating system of world technology will probably still be running despite the events of the Book of Revelation and the technical knowledge to use them will remain. The internet will still be up and people will remember how to use it. Despite denying God I think the powers that be are expecting the events as described in the bible and are preparing their response for them. Everyone knows the truth to some extent, most just hate the truth. However I don't think everyone will be onto that system by then, given that the rapture is soon, there are many cash only businesses in remote places for example. God Bless.
 
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ItIsFinished!

Blood bought child of the King of kings.
YES

Because Tribulation saints are not OSAS (once saved always saved) the point of verse 13 ("but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.") becomes a promise to the Tribulation saints who refuse the mark, and stand firm in that refusal, to their end of their life, or the end of the Tribulation, whichever it is that God fore ordains for them to endure.

Whether they die or whether they live till the end, (being hidden from the antichrist's enforcers and sustained in some way by God outside the economy of buying and selling), --they MUST remain steadfast in their resolve to refuse the mark or lose their Salvation.

Salvation is their final reward whether at death by martyrdom refusing the mark OR by remaining steadfast to the end of the Tribulation, refusing the mark as they run from one hiding place to another to survive as God allows.

Yes, I do think that there will be those who do come to some type of knowledge of God, but fail to remain firm in that, and are lost as they take the Mark. They will CONSENT to the Mark-- which is the ultimate blasphemy as pointed out upthread.

For those who refuse the Mark, those moments before they are killed, whatever that Mark is, is unable to take hold of them. God by His very command not to take the mark, must make a way for them to refuse it, no matter what is forced upon them.

Whatever the Mark is, it requires consent. BECAUSE people are able to refuse it. And because the Bible says they are killed for refusing.

That would seem impossible. Prisoners are forced into things all the time-- China doesn't need their prisoners to consent to death by removing their vital organs or doing medical experiments on them. If they want to put drugs or retroviruses or chips or tattoos on their prisoners, no consent is necessary.

We won't know till afterwards what that means-- is it because God doesn't allow that mark to show up--He supernaturally destroys it as they try to mark the Christian prisoner who remains firm in refusing?

Or is it that God forces the enemy into requiring consent? Perhaps Satan and the AC must gain consent for this Mark to be allowed.

There are limits to Satan's abilities. Boundaries beyond which he cannot act. This might be one.

We won't know how exactly, but we do know that this mark can be refused. And those who refuse are killed. They aren't able to be forced to take that mark. They are put to death instead.
Great post dear sister.

Yeah, Satan is the master deceiver.
He loves to mimic/imitate God in all facets possible ,with a hellish , unholy twist.
His unholy trinity.
His false miracles.
His false manifestations .
His signs and wonders...
His drawing of the unbelievers.
His false hope resurrection .
His unholy worship, " the mark" = allegiance .

When we receive The Lord Jesus Christ as our Saviour , we receive the Holy Spirit and the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1:13-14
In whom ye also trusted , after that ye
heard the word of truth , the gospel of your
salvation: in whom also after that ye believed ,
ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of
promise,

Which is the earnest of our inheritance
until the redemption of the purchased
possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Unfortunately for those who are alive during the Tribulation things will be dramatically different.
Halfway through the Tribulation 14 judgments have passed. The "mark" is implemented.
Those who take the "mark" have sealed their fate to a eternal Lake of Fire forever.

The original snakeoil salesman will beguile the world with his deceptive wicked ways. Those that follow him , those that take the "mark" , the seal of the unholy spirit ,will pay an eternal price
in a Lake of Fire that burneth forever.
That needed to be repeated , as much as many of God's warnings are.
 

Belle of Grace

Longing for Home
It's interesting because the purpose of the Tribulation is to draw the Jews out into the wilderness again as they flee from the AC to Bosrah or Petrah or wherever that place prepared in the wilderness is. In that time God is drawing them out of the world, and back to Him as their God, their Saviour and Provider. Just like He did as He brought them out of Egypt, he will again as He brings Egypt out of them.

Bookends for the Jews. What began in Egypt with Moses, ends by their King and Messiah coming back to save them and bring them into the promised Millennium. The church age hidden in the middle.
Love the way you described the Jewish history and God's manner of dealing with them so succinctly! I love it when the word bookends is used to explain a major point. That bit of clarification tidied up the whole story, making it easier to understand :thumbup
 
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