Lordship Salvation: The Latest Works Based Salvation Plan

Chris

Administrator
Staff member
A hot topic for sure, but it needn't be. Some popular teachers today like John MacArthur teach this works based salvation plan called "Lordship Salvation". What does it take to be saved, find out here:

OSAS, The Whole Story | GraceThruFaith

What is Lordship salvation? Find out here:

Lordship | GraceThruFaith

Lordship Salvation | GraceThruFaith

Lordship Salvation

Q. Can you please explain lordship salvation and whether you feel it is a valid doctrine? If I understand it correctly and it is valid, it pretty much eliminates any “deathbed conversions.”

A. In effect, Lordship Salvation holds that just believing that Jesus died for your sins isn’t enough. In addition to making Him your Savior, you also have to make Him Lord of your life. This is demonstrated by the degree to which your actions in this world demonstrate an obedience to Biblical instructions on Christian living.

This view contradicts the clear teachings of Jesus on the sole requirement for salvation, belief, and in essence turns Paul’s encouragement to live a victorious Christian life into another list of commandments to be obeyed. And you’re right, under this view deathbed conversions would be impossible.
 

ShilohRose

Well-Known Member
How can they justify this with the example of the thief dying on the cross? Jesus promised him he would be in paradise that day. When did the thief have time to do good works and go through the path to make Jesus "Lord of his life"? Or maybe the thief was able to fast forward through all that during his suffeirng on the cross. :ohno
 

Chris

Administrator
Staff member
How can they justify this with the example of the thief dying on the cross? Jesus promised him he would be in paradise that day. When did the thief have time to do good works and go through the path to make Jesus "Lord of his life"? Or maybe the thief was able to fast forward through all that during his suffeirng on the cross. :ohno
I agree. I don't know how they can justify this works based salvation plan either. It is clearly not biblical. Calvinists are the ones usually adhering to this doctrine. A good many of them believe in predestination which is the teaching that some people were destined to be saved and some were just created to fuel the flames of Hell and had no chance for salvation. There are a lot of bad doctrines out there. The Bible specifically says that God wants none to perish but to come to faith in Jesus. How could that be if he made some folks to deny grace thru faith simply to be "kindling" for Hell?!! :doh: :ohno
 

mikhen7

Freed By Christ to Serve Christ
I agree. I don't know how they can justify this works based salvation plan either. It is clearly not biblical. Calvinists are the ones usually adhering to this doctrine. A good many of them believe in predestination which is the teaching that some people were destined to be saved and some were just created to fuel the flames of Hell and had no chance for salvation. There are a lot of bad doctrines out there. The Bible specifically says that God wants none to perish but to come to faith in Jesus. How could that be if he made some folks to deny grace thru faith simply to be "kindling" for Hell?!! :doh: :ohno
Thought I would chime in. I have always held to a "Lordship Salvation" but never looked at it in the light that you all have presented it. I too believe that our blessed salvation is by grace through faith, and that alone, through the Lord Jesus. That is truly all that is required for salvation to be granted. The concept of "Lordship" to me is simply an extension, if you will, of God's grace. I recently posted this to my blog. I am always open to criticism so feel free to respond as you wish.

Truth Inspires: 2010-10-03

The following is an excerpt from "Understanding Grace…without it no one can be saved!

Some simple Points most people understand but many still need to hear are:

1) We are saved by Grace. Eph. 2:8-9 - "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."

2) We are reconciled by Grace. 2 Cor. 5:18-21 - "Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."

3) The penalty of sin has been forever paid for because of Grace. Col. 2:13-15 - "And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it."

4) We are sustained by Grace. Heb 13:9b - "...For it is good that the heart be established by grace,..."

What is often left out of this message is:

5) Grace induces us to live a Holy life. Titus 2:11-15 - "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you."

A believer should be so thankful, so mesmerized by the substitutionary death of Christ that he/she is constrained to serve Him. This type of person is the one you will often find on their knees, prostrate before the Lord in humble reverence. Grace opens our eyes to our pitiful position and offers a way out. It speaks to us of a second chance in life. It tells us we do not need to continue to live apart from God because the fountain of cleansing is open. It invigorates us to be pleasing to Him who saved us. It was the expressed attitude of the Apostle Paul. He wrote:

Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God,... For if we are beside ourselves, it is for God; or if we are of sound mind, it is for you. For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again (2 Cor. 5:9-11, 13-15).

This is often a difficulty for those who do not have a deep remorse for personal sin. For how can one feel compelled or constrained, by the conviction of the Holy Spirit, to live a pleasing life to the Lord, if he does not see a reason why? Of this again, the Apostle Paul writes:

Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing. For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death. For observe this very thing, that you sorrowed in a godly manner: What diligence it produced in you, what clearing of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what vehement desire, what zeal, what vindication! In all things you proved yourselves to be clear in this matter (2 Cor. 7:9-11).

Notice that those who possess this Godly sorrow, as the result of living a life apart from God’s guidance, and as an offense to Him, do and will come running to the Cross. It is the Godly response to spiritual desperation. It is natural then, for Grace to be the teacher that God uses to continually “conform us to the image of Christ” (Rom. 8:29).
<--End of excerpt-->



So I feel that salvation occurs the moment we confess our sin through repentance, and then ask Jesus to forgive us and come into our lives as Savior and Lord. The "Lord" part is simply a confession that we are acknowledging that He has full control over all things in heaven and earth and because of that is Lord of all, including our lives. It is not a work to acknowledge that, it is an act of grace to live it out.


If you think about it, even though the lost never do, Jesus is indeed "Lord over all" because all humanity are subject to Him, lost or saved, and this will be realized in death for those who are lost.

As for the thief on the cross:

Luke 23:40-43:
40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.”
42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”
43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”


Even the thief calls Him Lord.

Having said all the above, I do not believe that "Lordship" is a work. If it is taught as one then that is wrong and bespells all things false. Rather, it is a natural extension of grace. It is God's grace "working out" the completeness of salvation that occured when we first asked Him into our lives. "you will know them bytheir fruits."

God bless
 
Last edited:

Chris

Administrator
Staff member
I was reading your reply and thought of a question. How can it be then that if God wants everyone to come to repentance, then why don't they? How then can you explain the entire chapter of Romans 9? It says, in Romans 9:11-23: Speaking of Jacob and Esau:

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

I just wanted to say here, that God does choose to save whom He will. Why? For the display of His glory throughout all the earth. He prepared Hitler and Stalin as "vessels of wrath fitted for destruction" that all men may see that He is God and He is running this universe. God is God, He is not answerable to any man on this earth, so He may do whatever He pleases to do just like He wants to do something no matter how it may appear to us down here on this earth. After all, He is God and He has that right.

17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

God takes direct responsibility for this.

19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory?"


I didn't want to sidetrack or hijack this thread! Perhaps I'd better make a new thread for this discussion. :elmogrin :hug
Two words. FREE WILL. Those that don't come to faith have exercised their free will not to. God won't make them come to him, but he wants them to. :((
 

Robert

Well-Known Member
Thought I would chime in. I have always held to a "Lordship Salvation" but never looked at it in the light that you all have presented it. I too believe that our blessed salvation is by grace through faith, and that alone, through the Lord Jesus. That is truly all that is required for salvation to be granted. The concept of "Lordship" to me is simply an extension, if you will, of God's grace. I recently posted this to my blog. I am always open to criticism so feel free to respond as you wish.

Truth Inspires: 2010-10-03

The following is an excerpt from "Understanding Grace…without it no one can be saved!

Some simple Points most people understand but many still need to hear are:

1) We are saved by Grace. Eph. 2:8-9 - "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."

2) We are reconciled by Grace. 2 Cor. 5:18-21 - "Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."

3) The penalty of sin has been forever paid for because of Grace. Col. 2:13-15 - "And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it."

4) We are sustained by Grace. Heb 13:9b - "...For it is good that the heart be established by grace,..."

What is often left out of this message is:

5) Grace induces us to live a Holy life. Titus 2:11-15 - "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you."

A believer should be so thankful, so mesmerized by the substitutionary death of Christ that he/she is constrained to serve Him. This type of person is the one you will often find on their knees, prostrate before the Lord in humble reverence. Grace opens our eyes to our pitiful position and offers a way out. It speaks to us of a second chance in life. It tells us we do not need to continue to live apart from God because the fountain of cleansing is open. It invigorates us to be pleasing to Him who saved us. It was the expressed attitude of the Apostle Paul. He wrote:

Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God,... For if we are beside ourselves, it is for God; or if we are of sound mind, it is for you. For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again (2 Cor. 5:9-11, 13-15).

This is often a difficulty for those who do not have a deep remorse for personal sin. For how can one feel compelled or constrained, by the conviction of the Holy Spirit, to live a pleasing life to the Lord, if he does not see a reason why? Of this again, the Apostle Paul writes:

Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing. For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death. For observe this very thing, that you sorrowed in a godly manner: What diligence it produced in you, what clearing of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what vehement desire, what zeal, what vindication! In all things you proved yourselves to be clear in this matter (2 Cor. 7:9-11).

Notice that those who possess this Godly sorrow, as the result of living a life apart from God’s guidance, and as an offense to Him, do and will come running to the Cross. It is the Godly response to spiritual desperation. It is natural then, for Grace to be the teacher that God uses to continually “conform us to the image of Christ” (Rom. 8:29).
<--End of excerpt-->



So I feel that salvation occurs the moment we confess our sin through repentance, and then ask Jesus to forgive us and come into our lives as Savior and Lord. The "Lord" part is simply a confession that we are acknowledging that He has full control over all things in heaven and earth and because of that is Lord of all, including our lives. It is not a work to acknowledge that, it is an act of grace to live it out.


If you think about it, even though the lost never do, Jesus is indeed "Lord over all" because all humanity are subject to Him, lost or saved, and this will be realized in death for those who are lost.

As for the thief on the cross:

Luke 23:40-43:
40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.”
42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”
43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”


Even the thief calls Him Lord.

Having said all the above, I do not believe that "Lordship" is a work. If it is taught as one then that is wrong and bespells all things false. Rather, it is a natural extension of grace. It is God's grace "working out" the completeness of salvation that occured when we first asked Him into our lives. "you will know them bytheir fruits."

God bless
If "Lordship" is a work, wouldn't that also make accepting God's grace a work as well?

We cannot have Jesus as our Saviour unless we also submit to him as our Lord. Otherwise, we only want someone to pull us out of the flames of hell and not want to recognize his authority. Salvation is more than escaping hell; it is coming into a right relationship with the Lord. That relationship is Jesus as Lord and us as the servant. Anything else is attempting to do like Job did and try to place ourselves in equal parity with God:

"“Oh that I had one to hear me! Behold, here is my signature; Let the Almighty answer me! And the indictment which my adversary has written, Surely I would carry it on my shoulder, I would bind it to myself like a crown. I would declare to Him the number of my steps; Like a prince I would approach Him. " (Job 31:35-37, NASB, emphasis mine)

In other words: as long as we do not recognize the Lord as Lord, we are not going to see ourselves as under him, but alongside him.
 

mattfivefour

Administrator
Staff member
Thought I would chime in. I have always held to a "Lordship Salvation" but never looked at it in the light that you all have presented it. I too believe that our blessed salvation is by grace through faith, and that alone, through the Lord Jesus. That is truly all that is required for salvation to be granted. The concept of "Lordship" to me is simply an extension, if you will, of God's grace. I recently posted this to my blog. I am always open to criticism so feel free to respond as you wish.

Truth Inspires: 2010-10-03

The following is an excerpt from "Understanding Grace…without it no one can be saved!

Some simple Points most people understand but many still need to hear are:

1) We are saved by Grace. Eph. 2:8-9 - "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."

2) We are reconciled by Grace. 2 Cor. 5:18-21 - "Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."

3) The penalty of sin has been forever paid for because of Grace. Col. 2:13-15 - "And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it."

4) We are sustained by Grace. Heb 13:9b - "...For it is good that the heart be established by grace,..."

What is often left out of this message is:

5) Grace induces us to live a Holy life. Titus 2:11-15 - "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you."


A believer should be so thankful, so mesmerized by the substitutionary death of Christ that he/she is constrained to serve Him. This type of person is the one you will often find on their knees, prostrate before the Lord in humble reverence. Grace opens our eyes to our pitiful position and offers a way out. It speaks to us of a second chance in life. It tells us we do not need to continue to live apart from God because the fountain of cleansing is open. It invigorates us to be pleasing to Him who saved us. It was the expressed attitude of the Apostle Paul. He wrote:

Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God,... For if we are beside ourselves, it is for God; or if we are of sound mind, it is for you. For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again (2 Cor. 5:9-11, 13-15).

This is often a difficulty for those who do not have a deep remorse for personal sin. For how can one feel compelled or constrained, by the conviction of the Holy Spirit, to live a pleasing life to the Lord, if he does not see a reason why? Of this again, the Apostle Paul writes:

Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing. For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death. For observe this very thing, that you sorrowed in a godly manner: What diligence it produced in you, what clearing of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what vehement desire, what zeal, what vindication! In all things you proved yourselves to be clear in this matter (2 Cor. 7:9-11).

Notice that those who possess this Godly sorrow, as the result of living a life apart from God’s guidance, and as an offense to Him, do and will come running to the Cross. It is the Godly response to spiritual desperation. It is natural then, for Grace to be the teacher that God uses to continually “conform us to the image of Christ” (Rom. 8:29).
<--End of excerpt-->



So I feel that salvation occurs the moment we confess our sin through repentance, and then ask Jesus to forgive us and come into our lives as Savior and Lord. The "Lord" part is simply a confession that we are acknowledging that He has full control over all things in heaven and earth and because of that is Lord of all, including our lives. It is not a work to acknowledge that, it is an act of grace to live it out.


If you think about it, even though the lost never do, Jesus is indeed "Lord over all" because all humanity are subject to Him, lost or saved, and this will be realized in death for those who are lost.

As for the thief on the cross:

Luke 23:40-43:
40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.”
42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”
43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”


Even the thief calls Him Lord.

Having said all the above, I do not believe that "Lordship" is a work. If it is taught as one then that is wrong and bespells all things false. Rather, it is a natural extension of grace. It is God's grace "working out" the completeness of salvation that occured when we first asked Him into our lives. "you will know them by their fruits."

God bless
Absolutely, bro. That is my own understanding because it is the clear teaching of Scripture. Accepting Christ as Savior AND Lord are both sides of the same coin. You can NOT have one without the other. To accept Him as Savior but refuse to bow the knee to Him as Lord is just looking for "fire insurance". God is not in the insurance business. He is in the assurance business. God is NOT mocked: Whatsoever a man sows, that shall he also reap.

The Calvinists err on the side of legalism and the Arminians on the side of grace. The path Christ lit is in the middle.

Accepting Jesus Christ as Lord as well as Savior is not works based salvation. It is true salvation, based purely on repentance and faith. As by faith we accept the truth that He is Savior, by repenting we accept His way over our own. Works are the fruit of the tree, not the root. Faith is the root, and faith alone. But true faith WILL eventually produce fruit works. God does the work, we have to be WILLING to cooperate by allowing Him to work out in us that which He desires. We do not lose our free will by becoming Christians. As we had to make a choice to begin this life, we have to continually choose to walk with Him, in obedience to Him. Disobedience does not produce separation from God for He will never cast off those who trust in Him. His Word says so. Disobedience produces loss of fellowship, loss of faculty, loss of fruitfulness, loss of function. But disobedience in a Christian does not produce the loss of salvation. It cannot.

HOWEVER— continual disobedience in every aspect of life indicates that the individual never surrendered to Christ in the first place and thus has never been His, though they may seem to be. Thus the illustration Jesus used of tares and wheat: while they are growing they look identical. But they are not. This does not mean we earn our salvation. We all fail from time to time, either by omission or commission. And when we repent and confess we are restored to full fellowship and function, and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. But, despite our sins—even if they are many and egregious—we mourn over them, mourn over our unrighteousness in the flesh, and constantly desire to be as pure in condition as we are in position. And we continually go to Jesus to be changed into that image. THAT indicates a redeemed soul, a converted sinner, a saved person, a Christian. If anybody is happy and contented in their sin, they have never been converted.

Thus I say that the acceptance of Christ as Savior is inseparable from the acceptance of Christ as Lord. But note that the latter necessitates a WILLINGNESS to obey, not necessarily the actual ABILITY to obey. That ability is produced by the Holy Spirit working within us. And if He works, He will succeed ... changing us from level to level into the image of Christ.

No inward change, no salvation. But if there is inward change, then there is salvation. Eventually the fruit that goes with that WILL appear on the tree. Just a matter of time. More for some than for others. But it WILL appear.

Therefore to equate Lordship Salvation with works salvation is, respectfully, a misunderstanding of the concept and a misreading of scripture.
 

Robert

Well-Known Member
Absolutely, bro. That is my own understanding because it is the clear teaching of Scripture. Accepting Christ as Savior AND Lord are both sides of the same coin. You can NOT have one without the other. To accept Him as Savior but refuse to bow the knee to Him as Lord is just looking for "fire insurance". God is not in the insurance business. He is in the assurance business. God is NOT mocked: Whatsoever a man sows, that shall he also reap.

The Calvinists err on the side of legalism and the Arminians on the side of grace. The path Christ lit is in the middle.

Accepting Jesus Christ as Lord as well as Savior is not works based salvation. It is true salvation, based purely on repentance and faith. As by faith we accept the truth that He is Savior, by repenting we accept His way over our own. Works are the fruit of the tree, not the root. Faith is the root, and faith alone. But true faith WILL eventually produce fruit works. God does the work, we have to be WILLING to cooperate by allowing Him to work out in us that which He desires. We do not lose our free will by becoming Christians. As we had to make a choice to begin this life, we have to continually choose to walk with Him, in obedience to Him. Disobedience does not produce separation from God for He will never cast off those who trust in Him. His Word says so. Disobedience produces loss of fellowship, loss of faculty, loss of fruitfulness, loss of function. But disobedience in a Christian does not produce the loss of slavation. It cannot.

HOWEVER— continual disobedience in every aspect of life indicates that the individual never surrendered to Christ in the first place and thus has never been His, though they may seem to be. Thus the illustration Jesus used of tares and wheat: while they are growing they look identical. But they are not. This does not mean we earn our salvation. We all fail from time to time, either by omission or commission. And when we repent and confess we are restored to full fellowship and function, and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. But, despite our sins—even if they are many and egregious—we mourn over them, mourn over our unrighteousness in the flesh, and constantly desire to be as pure in condition as we are in position. And we continually go to Jesus to be changed into that image. THAT indicates a redeemed soul, a converted sinner, a saved person, a Christian. If anybody is happy and contented in their sin, they have never been converted.

Thus I say that the acceptance of Christ as Savior is inseparable from the acceptance of Christ as Lord. And the latter presupposes a WILLINGNESS to obey, not necessarily the actual ABILITY to do so. That ability is produced by the Holy Spirit working within us. And if He works, He will succeed ... changing us from level to level into the image of Christ.

No inward change, no salvation. But if there is inward change, then there is salvation. Eventually the fruit that goes with that WILL appear on the tree. Just a matter of time. More for some than for others. But it WILL appear.

Therefore to equate Lordship Salvation with works salvation is, respectfully, a misunderstanding of the concept and a misreading of scripture.
:thumbup:thumbup:thumbup
 

mikhen7

Freed By Christ to Serve Christ
If "Lordship" is a work, wouldn't that also make accepting God's grace a work as well?

We cannot have Jesus as our Saviour unless we also submit to him as our Lord. Otherwise, we only want someone to pull us out of the flames of hell and not want to recognize his authority. Salvation is more than escaping hell; it is coming into a right relationship with the Lord. That relationship is Jesus as Lord and us as the servant. Anything else is attempting to do like Job did and try to place ourselves in equal parity with God:

"“Oh that I had one to hear me! Behold, here is my signature; Let the Almighty answer me! And the indictment which my adversary has written, Surely I would carry it on my shoulder, I would bind it to myself like a crown. I would declare to Him the number of my steps; Like a prince I would approach Him. " (Job 31:35-37, NASB, emphasis mine)

In other words: as long as we do not recognize the Lord as Lord, we are not going to see ourselves as under him, but alongside him.
Hey brother, i may have misunderstood you, But I do not believe in any way shape or form that Lordship Salvation is a work. From my Post:

Having said all the above, I do not believe that "Lordship" is a work. If it is taught as one then that is wrong and bespells all things false. Rather, it is a natural extension of grace. It is God's grace "working out" the completeness of salvation that occured when we first asked Him into our lives. "you will know them bytheir fruits."

God bless!!!!


God bless
 

Robert

Well-Known Member
Hey brother, i may have misunderstood you, But I do not believe in any way shape or form that Lordship Salvation is a work. From my Post:

Having said all the above, I do not believe that "Lordship" is a work. If it is taught as one then that is wrong and bespells all things false. Rather, it is a natural extension of grace. It is God's grace "working out" the completeness of salvation that occured when we first asked Him into our lives. "you will know them bytheir fruits."

God bless!!!!


God bless
I know you don't: I was agreeing with you!!!! :lol:

Guess I should have prefaced my reply, huh?
 

Chris

Administrator
Staff member
Hey brother, i may have misunderstood you, But I do not believe in any way shape or form that Lordship Salvation is a work. From my Post:

Having said all the above, I do not believe that "Lordship" is a work. If it is taught as one then that is wrong and bespells all things false. Rather, it is a natural extension of grace. It is God's grace "working out" the completeness of salvation that occured when we first asked Him into our lives. "you will know them bytheir fruits."

God bless!!!!


God bless
There are different "flavors" of LS. I've heard some LS proponents say that you will eventually not sin as you fall under the Lord and in obedience to him. This is one of the most gross errors you can teach. We're all sinners. While he is our Lord, we are not going to be free of sin as most Lordship proponents teach. On the surface the doctrine looks harmless, but when people start working toward their salvation rather than working out of appreciation for salvation we've got a problem. It's a subtle but dangerous teaching. :nod
 

Chris

Administrator
Staff member
Hey brother, i may have misunderstood you, But I do not believe in any way shape or form that Lordship Salvation is a work. From my Post:

Having said all the above, I do not believe that "Lordship" is a work. If it is taught as one then that is wrong and bespells all things false. Rather, it is a natural extension of grace. It is God's grace "working out" the completeness of salvation that occured when we first asked Him into our lives. "you will know them bytheir fruits."

God bless!!!!


God bless
This is a must read article on the subject of what does it take to be saved. It explains "union and fellowship" or "justification and sanctification". I think it will take the confusion out of things for people.

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OSAS, The Whole Story | GraceThruFaith

OSAS, The Whole Story
A Bible Study by Jack Kelley

If you follow our “Ask a Bible Teacher” feature, you know how many comments I’ve received lately that question the Doctrine of Eternal Security (aka Once Saved Always Saved or OSAS). Based on their content I’ve concluded that many people neither understand OSAS nor have they considered the alternative.

Let’s Begin At The Beginning

It’s time to set the record straight once and for all. What does it take to be saved? I think the best answer to that question is the one the Lord gave in John 6:28-29.

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

Here was a perfect opportunity to list all the things we have to do to meet God’s requirements. Jesus could have rattled off the 10 commandments. He could have repeated the Sermon on the Mount. He could have listed any number of admonitions and restrictions necessary to achieve and maintain God’s expectations of us. But what did He say? “Believe in the one He has sent.” Period. It was a repeat of John 3:16, confirming that belief in the Son is the one and only requirement for salvation.

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

A few verses later in John 6 He said that this wasn’t just His idea, as if that wouldn’t be enough, but that His Father was in complete agreement. And not only would our belief suffice to provide us with eternal life, but that it was God’s will that Jesus lose none of those who believe. You and I have been known to disobey God’s will, but has Jesus ever done so? And isn’t He the one who’s been charged with the responsibility for keeping us? Let’s read it.

“For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.” (John 6:38-40)

Just in case we missed this promise, Jesus made it again even more clearly in John 10:28-30. “I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.” The Father and the Son have both accepted responsibility for our security. Once we’re in Their hands, no one can get us away.

I have purposely only used words straight from the Lord’s own mouth to make this case because I can already hear the choruses of “Yes Buts” mounting as those who refuse to take them at face value get ready to trot out their favorite verses denying Eternal Security, misinterpreted though they are.

The one characteristic of God’s that gives us the most comfort is knowing that He can’t lie or change His mind or contradict Himself. He can’t say something in one place and then say something entirely different in another. He’s consistent. If He says that we’re saved solely because of our belief in Him, and that He’s accepted responsibility for keeping us so, then we can count on that. As we’ll see, anything in the Bible that seems to contradict these simple, straightforward statements has to be talking about something else.

But first, since He puts so much emphasis on belief, let’s take a closer look at that word. What does He mean when He says “believe”? It must be more than just a casual thing because reliable statistics show, for example, that 85% of those who come forward to “receive the Lord” at a crusade or other evangelistic outreach never form any connection with a church or Bible Study or in any other way demonstrate a relationship with the Lord afterward.

And Jesus spoke of the seed that fell on rocky places. He said, “This is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away.” (Matt. 13:20-21) If these people were saved and then fell away, all His promises above have been broken. There must be more. So what does it mean to believe?

The Greek word for believe is “pistis.” According the Strong’s Concordance, it’s a “conviction or belief respecting man’s relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervor born of faith and joined with it.” In connection with the Lord Jesus, it means “a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God.”

The Apostle Paul gave us valuable insight into the nature of this belief. He wrote, If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. (Romans 10:9-10)

This isn’t just some intellectual thing that carries us away on the words of a captivating speaker, only to leave us flat a short time later. It’s a conviction that’s formed deep in our heart, the realization that Jesus is not just a man. He’s the Lord Himself, and He took upon Himself the penalty due us for our sins, which is death. And to prove that God counted His death as sufficient, He raised Jesus from the dead to be seated beside Him in the Heavenly realms. (Ephes. 1:20) Since God can’t dwell in the presence of sin, and since the wages of sin is death, every one of our sins has to have been paid for. If even one remained unpaid, Jesus would still be in the grave. We have to believe that Jesus rose from the grave in order to believe that we will.

It’s that kind of belief that gets you saved and keeps you that way, because it sets in motion a chain of events that’s irreversible. There are four links in this chain. You supply two and the Lord supplies two. You hear and believe, and the Lord marks and guarantees.

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory. (Ephesians 1:13-14)

The word translated “deposit” is a legal term. Today we would say Earnest Money. It’s a down payment that constitutes a legal obligation to follow through with the purchase. If you’ve ever bought any Real Estate, you’re familiar with the term. If not, here’s another example. It’s like we’ve been put on “lay away.” The price has been paid and we’ve been taken off the display shelf until the one who has purchased us returns to claim us. In the mean time we cannot be bought by anyone else, because we legally belong to the one who has paid the deposit. “You are not your own,” we’re told. “You were bought with a price.” (1 Cor. 6:19-20)

All of this happened at our first moment of belief, before we could do anything to either earn or lose our position. The man on the cross beside Jesus is the prototype for this transaction. Having done something bad enough to get himself executed, he was promised a place in Paradise solely because he believed in his heart that Jesus was the Lord of a coming Kingdom.

Paul made it even clearer when he repeated this incredible promise in 2 Cor. 1:21-22. Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

This time He removed all doubt as to just Who it is that keeps us saved. Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. What could be clearer?

Union And Fellowship

If the Doctrine of Eternal Security is so clear then why all the disagreement about it? I’ve found two reasons. The first is the two-sided nature of our relationship with the Lord. One side is called Union and is Eternal and Unconditional, based only on our belief. Ephesians 1:13-14 describes our Union with God, sealed and guaranteed. Once we’re born again, we can’t become unborn. It’s good forever. The Holy Spirit is sealed within us from our first moment of belief until the day of redemption.

The other side is called Fellowship and it’s a bit more complicated. Fellowship is that state of continual closeness to God that enables Him to bless us in our daily lives, by making things happen for us and protecting us from attack. It’s like He’s teamed up with us to give us a supernatural advantage. Fellowship is defined by 1 John 1:8-9 as being both Earthly and conditional upon our behavior. Even as believers, as long as we’re here on Earth we’ll continue to sin. Since God can’t abide in the presence of sin, our unconfessed sins interrupt our Earthly relationship with Him and may deprive us of blessings we might have otherwise received. We’re still saved in the eternal sense, but out of Fellowship here on Earth.


When we’re out of Fellowship, we’re legitimate targets for our enemy’s mischief, just like Job was. His sin was self-righteousness and because he wouldn’t confess it, God had to let Satan afflict him in order to bring him to his senses. For a New Testament illustration, look at the parable of the Prodigal Son. (Luke 15:11-32) Like the younger son, we’ll still belong to our Father’s family, but won’t receive any of its blessings while we’re out of Fellowship. And like both Job and the Prodigal, when we return to our Father and confess our sins, we’re immediately purified from all unrighteousness and restored to Fellowship.

One reason that many Christians live such defeated lives is that having only learned about the Union part of being a believer, they only know that God has forgiven their sins and that they’ll go to be with Him when they die or are Raptured. They don’t realize that they still need to confess every time they sin to stay in Fellowship. And so, being deprived of God’s providence, they may become discouraged and even stop praying and attending church. Other believers, who don’t understand the dual relationship either, look at the mess they’re in and think they must have lost their salvation. Like Job’s friends, they look in God’s Word for confirmation, and by taking verses out of context, believe they have found the proof.

Union and Fellowship are not just New Testament ideas. In the Old Testament, even when Israel was being obedient in thought and action, doing their best to please God, the priests still had to sacrifice a lamb on the altar every morning and every evening for the sins of the people. 1 John 1:9 is the New Testament equivalent of those daily sacrifices for sin. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. It was written for believers who are already saved, but are in danger of being out of Fellowship because of their sins.

The Gift And the Prize

The other reason people get confused is that there are two types of benefits in Eternity. The first is the free Gift called Salvation that’s given to all who ask in faith irrespective of merit and guarantees our admission into the Kingdom. Ephesians 2:8-9 is the model, saying that salvation is a Gift from God.

The second consists of Heavenly rewards we can earn for the things we do as believers here on Earth. Philippians 3:13-14 are good verses for explaining this. Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. In addition to the Gift, there’s a Prize.

A gift is something given out of love, irrespective of merit, and is never taken back. A prize, on the other hand, is something we qualify for and earn. And if we’re not careful we can lose it. (Rev. 3:11) Paul had already received the Gift of salvation, it was behind him. Now he was focused on winning the Prize as well.

In 1 Corinthians 9:24-27 he explained the difference in greater detail. Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever.

No Olympic athlete was satisfied just to have qualified to participate in the games. Everyone wanted to win the victor’s crown. Likewise, we shouldn’t be satisfied just to have received the Gift of salvation. We must now live our lives as believers in such a way as to win the Prize as well.

The Bible calls some of these prizes crowns, and while the athlete’s crown soon wilted away (it was a wreath of ivy) the crowns believers can win last forever. They’re worth making some sacrifices for. That’s why Paul said, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize. (1 Cor. 9:27) The crowns are identified as the Everlasting Crown (Victory) in 1 Cor 9:25, Crown of the Soul Winner in Phil 4:1 and 1 Thes 2:19, Crown of Righteousness in 2 Tim 4:8, Crown of Life in Jas 1:12 and Rev 2:10, and the Crown of Glory in 1 Peter 5:4.

The difference between the Gift and the Prize is also seen in 1 Cor. 3:12-15. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man’s work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

At the judgment of believers, the quality of our work on earth will be tested by fire. Only work that survives the test will bring us a reward. But notice that even if all our work is destroyed in the fire, we’ll still have our salvation. Why? Because it’s a free Gift, given out of love, irrespective of merit.

The Lord mentioned other rewards as well. In Matt. 6:19-21 He advised us, “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.”

There are things we can do as believers while here on Earth that will cause deposits to be made to our heavenly account. Some believe that this passage refers to the way we use the money we’re given. Do we use it to enrich ourselves, stacking up possessions that far exceed our needs? Or do we use it to further the work of the Kingdom? Here’s a hint. Our tithe is what we owe to God. It’s what we do with the money we have left that really counts. And with the measure we use, it will be measured to us. (Luke 6:38)

To summarize, in the New Testament there are verses like Ephesians 1:13-14 that talk about Union. There are verses like 1 John 1: 8-9 that talk about Fellowship. There are verses like Ephesians 2:8-9 that talk about the Gift and there are verses like 1 Cor 9:24-27 that talk about the Prize.

Those that stress belief, explain the permanent nature of our bond with God, and are directed toward eternity are Union verses. Those that involve grace and faith are Gift verses. Those that require work and are directed at the quality of our lives on Earth are Fellowship verses, and those that require work and involve eternal rewards are Prize verses.


When you view Scripture from this perspective, all of the apparent contradictions disappear and you no longer have to wonder why God seems to be saying one thing here and something different there. The issue becomes one of correctly identifying the focal point of the particular passage you’re looking at. Determine the context by reading verses around it, and assign it to one of the four categories.

Give Us An Example

Hebrews 6:4-6 is a passage often cited in opposition to Eternal Security. The entire letter is to Jewish believers who are being enticed back into keeping the Law, so the context is New Covenant vs. Old. And in verse 9 the writer hints that he’s been talking about things that accompany salvation. That tells us that verses 4-6 are not related to salvation but things that accompany it. More importantly the idea that a believer could do something to irretrievably lose his salvation is in direct contradiction to the very clear promise that the Holy Spirit is sealed within us from the very first moment of belief until the day of redemption.

So what could these believers be in danger of falling away from due to their sins? Fellowship. And what could prevent them from being restored? The practice of Old Covenant remedies for sin rather than invoking 1 John 1:9. They’d be relegating the death of the Lord to the same status as that of the twice-daily lamb. The Law was only a shadow of the good things to come, not the realities themselves. Once the Reality appeared, the shadow was no longer effective. And what would be their penalty? Living a defeated life, bearing no fruit, all their works burned in the judgment of 1 Cor. 3. But still saved? Yes. Hebrews 6:4-6 is a Fellowship passage.

Suppose There Is No Security?

In closing, let’s look at the alternative. What are we faced with? If Hebrews 6:4-6 for example applies to our salvation then if we ever sin after being saved we’ll be lost forever with no way back, because the Lord would have to be crucified all over again to retrieve us. The New Covenant would be worse than the Old, not better. They were condemned for their actions. According to Matt. 5 we’d be condemned for our thoughts. They couldn’t murder. We couldn’t even be angry. They couldn’t commit adultery. We couldn’t even have a lustful thought. Think of it. No anger, ever. No lust, ever. No envy, ever. No idolatry, ever. No favoritism or discrimination, ever. No impure thoughts or deeds of any kind, ever. Is this the Good News, the incomparable riches of His Grace? Did God become man and die the most painful death ever devised only to put His children into an even more untenable position than before? Are we saved by grace only to be placed under the constraints of an even more severely administered law? I can’t believe so.

Some take a more moderate view of this saying that God would never take back the gift of salvation, but that we can return it. To justify this position they have to put words in the Lord’s mouth. When He says in John 10:28, “No one can snatch them out of my hand,” they have to insert the phrase “but us” after “no one”. Same with Romans 8:38-39.

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. They have to insert the phrase “but us” after “in all creation”.

None of this defense of Eternal Security is intended to condone sin. As an indication of our gratitude for the gift of salvation, believers are continually admonished in Scripture to live our lives in a manner pleasing to God. Not to earn or keep it, but to thank the Lord for giving it to us. And to help us do that, the Holy Spirit has come to dwell in us to guide and direct us, and to pray for us. Since the Spirit of God lives in us we are no longer controlled by the sin nature and can choose to please God by the way we live. And even though we do this out of gratitude for the Gift He’s already given, which is Union with Him, He blesses us both here on Earth (Fellowship) and in Eternity (the Prize). Selah 10-07-06
 

Chris

Administrator
Staff member
Dr. John R. Rice Refutes Lordship Salvation

Dr. John R. Rice Refutes Lordship Salvation
By David J. Stewart

I was recently reading one of Dr. John R. Rice's books titled, Dr. Rice... Here Are More Questions, in which he beautifully refutes the heresy of Lordship Salvation. The following is a question submitted to Dr. John R. Rice concerning professed Christians who live in sin...

"We have young folks in our church who are supposed to be saved and who giggle and whisper all during church services and who say they 'just hate' church and 'can't stand' to listen to our pastor preach. They attend movies and worldly amusements. I feel that as pastors and Sunday school teachers we do not warn those enough who think they are saved but are not born again. Shouldn't we plead with them to go to the alter again?"
SOURCE: Dr. Rice... Here Are More Questions, by John R. Rice, pg. 76, Sword of the Lord Publishers; ISBN: 0-87398-157-X

The following is Dr. Rice's response to the preceding question...

"Being saved, born again, is one thing; learning to live a consecrated Christian life is an entirely different thing. There is not any way you can judge whether people are born again except as you take their testimony that they have put their trust in Jesus Christ and depended on Him for salvation. Some of these young people indeed may not have been taught to trust in Christ. If they were looking for "an experience," a certain kind of feeling or emotion, then they may have been misled. But if they honestly turned their hearts to Christ and depended on Him for salvation, they were saved.

Now a Christian should live a consecrated Christian life but that does not automatically follow. People who are saved will find, like Paul, "When I would do good, evil is present with me . . . . So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin" (Romans 7:21,25).

Every saved person still has the old carnal nature and often-times has the same kind of temptation he had before. Some people who have truly been born again have a desperate fight to quit tobacco, and some have never seemed to get the victory over that or other bad habits. Some Christians have never learned to trust the Lord enough to bring tithes and offerings, and some have never learned to win souls. When a baby is born, he is not born grown. Being born is one thing; growing is another thing entirely.

So the thing to do is to take for granted that people are saved when they trust Christ for salvation. Then one should set out to teach them to read the Bible daily, to learn to pray about their daily needs, to confess their sins and failures and grow in grace day by day. It is as foolish to expect young Christians to be good Christians by themselves as it is to expect a child, born in the family, to automatically be a great credit to the family without any rearing—whether they are spiritual babes or physical babes. I assure you that unless people are taught to be consecrated Christians, taught to read the Bible and pray, they are not likely to be good Christians, even if they are truly born again.

SOURCE: Dr. Rice... Here Are More Questions, by John R. Rice, pg. 76,77, Sword of the Lord Publishers; ISBN: 0-87398-157-X
Dr. Rice is 100% correct... "Being saved, born again, is one thing; learning to live a consecrated Christian life is an entirely different thing." A changed life comes from growing in grace as a result of genuine repentance; and not as a part of saving-faith itself. Salvation is receiving; NOT giving.

There are many ministers today, such as John MacArthur, who falsely teach that one's salvation is CONDITIONAL upon the life we live. MacArthur states:

"Submission to the will of God, to Christ’s lordship, and to the guiding of the Spirit is an essential, not an optional, part of saving faith" (EPHESIANS, p. 249).

"Salvation isn't the result of an intellectual exercise. It comes from a life lived in obedience and service to Christ as revealed in the Scripture; it's the fruit of actions, not intentions. There's no room for passive spectators: words without actions are empty and futile...The life we live, not the words we speak, determines our eternal destiny" (Hard to Believe, p. 93).
The Word of God calls John MacArthur a liar in Romans 4:5... "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Could the Bible be any plainer? The Scriptures speak plainly that we are saved by Jesus' righteousness (Romans 10:3-4; 2nd Corinthians 5:21); and not any self-righteousness of our own (Isaiah 64:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5). We are sinners; Jesus is the Savior.

John R. Rice is correct... "So the thing to do is to take for granted that people are saved when they trust Christ for salvation." Proponents of the Lordship Salvation heresy expect new believers to live a consecrated Christian life from the get-go of salvation. This is not reasonable nor Biblical. New believers need to be taught and discipled.

Dr. Rice states in his excellent book, Dr. Rice... Here is My Question...

"When you get saved, you get saved not because you deserve it, but because you simply let God save you and because you confess your own poor sinful state and your inability to save yourself."

SOURCE: Dr. Rice... Here is My Question, by Dr. John R. Rice, pg. 304; 1962, Sword of the Lord Publishers; ISBN: 0-87398-158-8
I couldn't agree more. This is what the Bible teaches. Dr. Rice also states in his Gospel tract, What Must I Do To Be Saved...

"The change in your heart, sinner, is God's part and you may be sure He will attend to that. Your part is to simply believe in Him. Whatever else is necessary in your eternal salvation, the Lord attends to when you trust in Him, or believe in Him."
SOURCE: What Must I DO To Be Saved, by Dr. John R. Rice

Amen! Dr. Rice is correct. Who are we to judge whether or not a person is sincere. There's a self-righteous group today in our churches, who demand a changed-life as a prerequisite for salvation. This is unbiblical, a heresy, and a perversion of the simple Gospel of Christ Jesus. The thing to do is to take for granted that people are saved when they simply trust Jesus Christ for salvation.
 

king'sbloomingrose

He is able to save
"Submission to the will of God, to Christ’s lordship, and to the guiding of the Spirit is an essential, not an optional, part of saving faith" (EPHESIANS, p. 249).

"Salvation isn't the result of an intellectual exercise. It comes from a life lived in obedience and service to Christ as revealed in the Scripture; it's the fruit of actions, not intentions. There's no room for passive spectators: words without actions are empty and futile...The life we live, not the words we speak, determines our eternal destiny" (Hard to Believe, p. 93).
I believe what JM is talking about here, is what comes after salvation. Works are not necessary for salvation, but works should accompany salvation. Works must accompany faith according to James 2:14-26.

14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

I'm no scholar about the Bible, but this is just what this passage here says. If I'm wrong please correct me, because I don't at all know everything there is to know. :elmogrin

It's like I've heard J Vernon McGee say, before when talking about this passage, "Faith alone saves, but the faith that saves is not alone." After all, if you say you believe something (for example, this building will burn up in a fire), must you not also act upon that belief by insuring the building and all inside against fire? If you don't act then I'd probably question whether or not you really do think that this building could catch fire and burn up one day. And so it is with salvation.
 

myinnuendo999

Well-Known Member
I believe the Bible clearly says that we must accept Jesus as Lord. I believe that it is synonomus--cant spell the word)----with when you receive Jesus as your Savior.


As Adrian Rogers said and I quote "you can't receive what Jesus did unlessl you receive who he is"..

Honestly, when I read this article I was saddened by the misunderstanding of what John MacArthur is really saying

The bible says If you confess with your mouth "Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart God raised him from the dead you will be saved"--Romans 10:9

This is not works oriented and it is very clear to me what the Bible says really is true. If you accept Jesus as your savior and not your Lord then I would question whether that person really is saved or not.


When it comes to "free will" I disagree that we have 'free will'- because the Word of God clearly says that we are SLAVES to sin-John 8:34. A Slave does not have FREE WILL.
 

mikhen7

Freed By Christ to Serve Christ
Dr. John R. Rice Refutes Lordship Salvation

Dr. John R. Rice Refutes Lordship Salvation
By David J. Stewart

I was recently reading one of Dr. John R. Rice's books titled, Dr. Rice... Here Are More Questions, in which he beautifully refutes the heresy of Lordship Salvation. The following is a question submitted to Dr. John R. Rice concerning professed Christians who live in sin...



SOURCE: Dr. Rice... Here Are More Questions, by John R. Rice, pg. 76, Sword of the Lord Publishers; ISBN: 0-87398-157-X

The following is Dr. Rice's response to the preceding question...



Dr. Rice is 100% correct... "Being saved, born again, is one thing; learning to live a consecrated Christian life is an entirely different thing." A changed life comes from growing in grace as a result of genuine repentance; and not as a part of saving-faith itself. Salvation is receiving; NOT giving.

There are many ministers today, such as John MacArthur, who falsely teach that one's salvation is CONDITIONAL upon the life we live. MacArthur states:



The Word of God calls John MacArthur a liar in Romans 4:5... "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Could the Bible be any plainer? The Scriptures speak plainly that we are saved by Jesus' righteousness (Romans 10:3-4; 2nd Corinthians 5:21); and not any self-righteousness of our own (Isaiah 64:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5). We are sinners; Jesus is the Savior.

John R. Rice is correct... "So the thing to do is to take for granted that people are saved when they trust Christ for salvation." Proponents of the Lordship Salvation heresy expect new believers to live a consecrated Christian life from the get-go of salvation. This is not reasonable nor Biblical. New believers need to be taught and discipled.

Dr. Rice states in his excellent book, Dr. Rice... Here is My Question...



I couldn't agree more. This is what the Bible teaches. Dr. Rice also states in his Gospel tract, What Must I Do To Be Saved...



SOURCE: What Must I DO To Be Saved, by Dr. John R. Rice

Amen! Dr. Rice is correct. Who are we to judge whether or not a person is sincere. There's a self-righteous group today in our churches, who demand a changed-life as a prerequisite for salvation. This is unbiblical, a heresy, and a perversion of the simple Gospel of Christ Jesus. The thing to do is to take for granted that people are saved when they simply trust Jesus Christ for salvation.
You are correct, there are differing flavors of LS out there. Those that teach it as a work are false. My belief is simple. when I accepted Jesus as my Savior through faith, I confessed with my mouth my belief "pistis" in Greek which also means faith. At that moment of confession I absolutely had to recognize He was Lord and that as Lord, He had the right to throw me into a wretched burning misreable Hell-fire. At that very moment I believed, I recognized He was Lord and there was nothing I could do to change that. I had to submit to that knowledge and in doing so He became my Savior. That is what I mean by LS, and it is by His grace I was saved. That same grace is what Paul spoke of to Titus,

Titus 2:11-15 - "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you."

I do not think we are disagreeing. Fellowship with God does indeed occur when we daily trust Him with our life through confession, petitions, in prayer. And yes, you can walk out of fellowship, but the Hound of Heaven will be after you tracking your every move. That also is an act of grace! I thank God for it!

God Bless
 
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