Living a Spiritual life

jonshaff

Fellow Servant
I agree with you, Jon. Many -- perhaps most -- of the new Christians I have known are quite literally on fire for the Lord. Many of you know that Barry and I are involved with the Gospel Rescue Mission here -- he with the men and me with the women. We have been privileged to see an awful lot of newly-born Christians through the years. They have seen and lived the results of sin and the one thing they are not is complacent. For almost all of them, they want nothing to do with their old lifestyles. Our job is to disciple them -- to walk alongside and pray with them and encourage them. But the one thing all of them know is to leave the old life behind. They are not often sure about how to live the new life, but they all want it and want to learn. Their hearts are changed.

These people know what the depths are like. They are willing to exercise their spiritual muscles to they can walk to the heights, following our Lord in obedience and service to others. It is so vastly different from the 'normal' folk who are sort of talked into saying the 'sinner's prayer' or turn to the Lord in a quick moment of emotion. Watching them, working with them, being with them has humbled me so much. It is from them, if no one else, I have learned that once a person is saved -- really redeemed -- that person is changed. And those changes will show.
I agree...The Corinthians were zealous to serve the Lord and to grow (from what it seems in Scripture). They didn't seem apathetic, lukewarm, sinfully rebellious or in a lifestyle of unrepentant sin. Misguided, yes.
 
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jonshaff

Fellow Servant
May I take a shot at this one? And without posting anything from Andy Woods, either...

We're saved from the consequence of sin, eternal separation from God.

We're saved for growing through His power into a closer relationship with God. To be useful for Him and to bring glory to Him, but not of our own effort, although we have to be willing to take steps in faith and then do so, but relying on His power. Perhaps as a testimony to both camps of angels -- those who chose rebellion and those who didn't.

I'll take a guess and say God gets glory taking broken people, cleaning them up, and making them useful for Him because they want to be in gratitude for what He's already done. I think of Isaiah chapter 6 here. He chooses us, but I believe we also choose Him, and that pleases Him.

Honestly, the only real disagreements I've seen on this topic usually revolve around the choices a believer makes after salvation and how much of a choice they really have to begin with.
Great post brother!

The one thing many Christians don't talk about or delve into is the fact that Salvation is three fold.

Justification is generally spoken about when people say they are "saved". We are saved from the PENALTY (Or as you said, the consequence) of Sin.

We are also being saved from the POWER of sin, sanctification. Sin has ZERO dominion over us. We are no longer enslaved to it or by it. Hallelujah it's because of the Finished Work of Jesus and what His blood paid for us at calvary! Not only did He give us peace with God, but He also imparted to us the POWER of God! The same power that rose Jesus from the dead, the power that raised us from the dead and made us alive in Christ is within us Through the Indwelling Spirit of God. Praise God!

And what we look forward to is being saved from the PRESENCE of sin. Glorified bodies, dwelling in the eternal Light of Christ forever.

That is the totality of Salvation, which is promised to everyone who believes.
 

greg64

Well-Known Member
We are also being saved from the POWER of sin, sanctification. Sin has ZERO dominion over us. We are no longer enslaved to it or by it. Hallelujah it's because of the Finished Work of Jesus and what His blood paid for us at calvary! Not only did He give us peace with God, but He also imparted to us the POWER of God! The same power that rose Jesus from the dead, the power that raised us from the dead and made us alive in Christ is within us Through the Indwelling Spirit of God. Praise God!
Jon,

I totally agree about the three fold salvation. Where we split somewhat into two camps is on the part I quoted above.

As you state above, several here seem to make the case that sin has no dominion over us, that God won't surrender territory He's already taken (us), etc.

Others see it more as a process with ups and downs and room for both our flesh and our will to get in the way. I think we'd all (both camps) agree the power is available to us through the indwelling Holy Spirit, but at least some of us would say that not all take advantage of that, thus the problem of carnality. I think the piece Jan posted above does a great job of delving into that. At the risk of just quoting someone, Dr. Woods also has a ton of great stuff on this site expounding on 1 Corinthians as a whole (which he often references as 1 Californians in honor of Ray Stedman who used that term to describe the carnality in that church).

So yes, sin doesn't have dominion over us since we've been saved, but it does still have power over our corruptible and corrupted flesh, as I believe Paul makes clear in several places. I don't believe sanctification is complete until we're taken out of this life one way or another. Then comes glorification and the removal/absence of sin entirely.

I think you and Helen are describing accurately what we have available to us and in a way the ideal situation we should all take advantage of. The only issue I have with that is that for someone who struggles and hasn't yet overcome sufficiently to fit the picture painted, a likely result is they'll doubt their salvation in the first place and become stunted in growth at best. Me saying that in no way excuses sin, encourages easy belief-ism, or anything of the sort.
 

jonshaff

Fellow Servant
Jon,

I think you and Helen are describing accurately what we have available to us and in a way the ideal situation we should all take advantage of. The only issue I have with that is that for someone who struggles and hasn't yet overcome sufficiently to fit the picture painted, a likely result is they'll doubt their salvation in the first place and become stunted in growth at best. Me saying that in no way excuses sin, encourages easy belief-ism, or anything of the sort.
I totally understand where you're coming from brother! Thanks for the Reply!

Let me make some things clear. I understand that we all "Struggle" and "Strive" against sin, absolutely. That is not the same thing as being steeped in it. If we keep telling generations of people "You're just gonna keep sinnin'" Guess what they are going to keep doing? Sin!

Acts 3:26
Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

It is obvious that we will sin here and there in our Christian walk, but that is not what the totality of Scripture focuses on. I am not sure why christendom focuses on Failures instead of the Life Giving Power of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ?

Jeremiah told us that God's mercies are, "Renewed every day."

God has gifted His church with the Ministry of Reconciliation and the Spirit of Christ Himself who lives in us. We have been given everything needed to have right relationships with God and people. If we hurt someone let us go to them and admit our wrongs and ask them for forgiveness. If someone has hurt us, let us forgive them and not hold a grudge against them. I do agree that this is a maturity process, but as long as we keep telling ourselves we are "just the way we are", we will continue to be "the way we are." But if we allow the Word to transform our mind and our Heart, we will be maturing and molded into the Image of our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ.

Do I sin? Yes. Do I make it a lifestyle of it. No. Do hate it? Yes. Do I become complacent and say, "Well, until i get my glorified body, it is what it is." No! I make war with the flesh!!!!!!! Keeping my eyes fixed on Jesus, filling my heart with His goodness and Love. Reminding myself that i'm a Child of the King! I'm Accepted in the Beloved! I'm more than a conqueror through Christ who loves me!

I'm just trying to point people to the life giving flow of Calvary. Christ's Blood was shed so that we may be complete in Him and He doesn't say wait until you get to heaven to experience that. He wants us to stay in the Throne Room of His Grace, Residing in His Presence and living a Life of Mercy and Grace as our Great Shepherd and Bishop of our Souls Leads us in the paths of Righteousness for His Names sake!
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
Nobody here has tried to do this, Helen. Think about what people are actually saying instead of using a straw man argument. You are better than this.
What? Actually read all the words someone posted?

This is always an interesting discussion.

My reasons for posting on this thread is I dont want new Christians who read these comments, and think they are not saved becasue they still sin.
 

Andrew

Well known member
I said 'we' -- that very much included me.

edit because I got interrupted: Maybe I am the only one alive, but I do use one certain struggle I have as an excuse. Maybe you would excuse it, too. I don't know. But personally I know for sure that I cannot use my weakness in any area as an excuse for sinning.
Nevertheless, nobody was suggesting that we have an excuse to sin. Paul also made that clear in Romans 6:

1 What should we say then? Should we continue in sin so that grace may multiply?
2 Absolutely not! How can we who died to sin still live in it?
3 Or are you unaware that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
4 Therefore we were buried with Him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we too may walk in a new way of life.
5 For if we have been joined with Him in the likeness of His death, we will certainly also be in the likeness of His resurrection.
6 For we know that our old self was crucified with Him in order that sin’s dominion over the body may be abolished, so that we may no longer be enslaved to sin,
7 since a person who has died is freed from sin’s claims.
8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with Him,
9 because we know that Christ, having been raised from the dead, will not die again. Death no longer rules over Him.
10 For in light of the fact that He died, He died to sin once for all; but in light of the fact that He lives, He lives to God.
11 So, you too consider yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, so that you obey its desires.
13 And do not offer any parts of it to sin as weapons for unrighteousness. But as those who are alive from the dead, offer yourselves to God, and all the parts of yourselves to God as weapons for righteousness.
14 For sin will not rule over you, because you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Should we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Absolutely not!
16 Don’t you know that if you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of that one you obey — either of sin leading to death or of obedience leading to righteousness?
17 But thank God that, although you used to be slaves of sin, you obeyed from the heart that pattern of teaching you were transferred to,
18 and having been liberated from sin, you became enslaved to righteousness.
19 I am using a human analogy because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you offered the parts of yourselves as slaves to moral impurity, and to greater and greater lawlessness, so now offer them as slaves to righteousness, which results in sanctification.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free from allegiance to righteousness.
21 So what fruit was produced then from the things you are now ashamed of? For the end of those things is death.
22 But now, since you have been liberated from sin and have become enslaved to God, you have your fruit, which results in sanctification — and the end is eternal life!
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Of course, we should also bear in mind
1 John 2:1 (HCSB)
My little children, I am writing you these things so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father -- Jesus Christ the Righteous One.
 

twit

Well-Known Member
There are articles on stem publication website (sorry no link, on so-called smart phone) by C.H Mackintosh. Click on his name and scroll down to near bottom and click on restoration. I believe it adds a good picture to this discussion, which has very good responses from you all.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
To me, this discussion is about the biblical "explanation" of why Christians still sin.
Yes! Sin nature will always be present in our bodies as we daily struggle with the temptations of sin, just like Paul explained in Romans 7.

Salvation is 3 phases.
Justification- is immediate upon belief in Jesus as your Savior. This can never be lost.
Sanctification- Holy Spirit will work in us throughout our walk with Him, showing us how to stay in fellowship with Him. However, the sin nature is still in us, and we will be in a constant battle between the flesh and the Spirit.
Glorification- upon death, santification complete, sin is gone from us forever.

Some who posted on this thread may not admit it, but IMO, they believe a born again Christian does not have a sin nature.
 

MePlus6

Well-Known Member
Yes! Sin nature will always be present in our bodies as we daily struggle with the temptations of sin, just like Paul explained in Romans 7.

Salvation is 3 phases.
Justification- is immediate upon belief in Jesus as your Savior. This can never be lost.
Sanctification- Holy Spirit will work in us throughout our walk with Him, showing us how to stay in fellowship with Him. However, the sin nature is still in us, and we will be in a constant battle between the flesh and the Spirit.
Glorification- upon death, santification complete, sin is gone from us forever.

Some who posted on this thread may not admit it, but IMO, they believe a born again Christian does not have a sin nature.
Excellent post Andy.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
Anyone want to add on to Living the Spiritual life during these challenging times of the global pandemic?
 
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