Literal chariots and horses?

Accepted

Well-Known Member
I agree, if God says it we should believe it.

Except the Bible didn't say horses it says Sus which directly translates to Leaper

H5483 (Strong)​

(I couldn't get the Hebrew letters to work in here)

sûs sûs

soos, soos

From an unused root meaning to skip (properly for joy); a horse(as leaping); also a swallow (from its rapid flight): - crane, horse ([-back, -hoof]). Compare H6571.

And only 1 out of the 3 possible English translations means horse.

The other 2/3 refer to birds

And none of the 3 possible translations are a word for word. The word sus in Hebrew simply translated means LEAPER, something that leaps, skips and flies. With the predominant idea of something that becomes airborne whether a horse leaping or a bird flying.

First we need to check what the original is, because the translators may not convey the full meaning.

Simply that the same Hebrew word SHOAH they use in Israel and around the world as their name in Hebrew for the Holocaust is that same word that Ezekiel uses in that passage. It's a storm alright, but not the usual kind. This type of storm that Ezekiel references is one that causes tremendous loss of life. So it's the difference between a rainshower and a massive destructive hurricane or super tornado devastating all in it's path.
Margery, when I looked briefly for the Hebrew word for ‘horse,’ it gave me “oio.” Not sure what that means, but I am wondering if there is a more direct way of saying horse, but a different word was used in this passage instead, it makes things very interesting!
 
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mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
How would you describe a cell phone to someone from 500 BC? They have no idea what plastic is , no idea about electronics, no idea about batteries, no idea about touchscreens, no idea of cell towers, processors, CPU, RAM, Apps and the like - so how would you describe it to them? in the written form and not talking to them, but writing it down so they can read it - or at the very least of what it does in words they would understand. What would you write?

The reverse is also true - a man from 500 BC trying to describe modern weapons of war - he would use his description based on what he knows at the time of the vision

As in Rev 1:11 saying, What thou seest, write in a book
:thumbup
 

daygo

Well-Known Member
How would you describe a cell phone to someone from 500 BC? They have no idea what plastic is , no idea about electronics, no idea about batteries, no idea about touchscreens, no idea of cell towers, processors, CPU, RAM, Apps and the like - so how would you describe it to them? in the written form and not talking to them, but writing it down so they can read it - or at the very least of what it does in words they would understand. What would you write?

The reverse is also true - a man from 500 BC trying to describe modern weapons of war - he would use his description based on what he knows at the time of the vision

As in Rev 1:11 saying, What thou seest, write in a book
How would you describe a cell phone to someone from 500 BC? They have no idea what plastic is , no idea about electronics, no idea about batteries, no idea about touchscreens, no idea of cell towers, processors, CPU, RAM, Apps and the like - so how would you describe it to them? in the written form and not talking to them, but writing it down so they can read it - or at the very least of what it does in words they would understand. What would you write?

The reverse is also true - a man from 500 BC trying to describe modern weapons of war - he would use his description based on what he knows at the time of the vision

As in Rev 1:11 saying, What thou seest, write in a book
Excellent reasoning.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
Margery, when I looked briefly for the Hebrew word for ‘horse,’ it gave me “oio.” Not sure what that means, but I am wondering if there is a more direct way of saying horse, but a different word was used in this passage instead, it makes things very interesting!
I think that is because Google doesn't seem to want to print out Hebrew letters any more. It's still Sus ( pronounced Soos) but when I tried to reprint the Hebrew letters in a cut and past it gave O I O like it did for you.

It's still the same word though.

In Jeremiah 8:7 and Isaiah 38:14 the same word is translated Crane, for the bird. The other 138 times it refers to actual horses but the word itself is about the action of leaping up which every animal it describes does so it's describing an action, rather than the noun for a particular animal. It is best translated as Leaper.
 

Accepted

Well-Known Member
I think that is because Google doesn't seem to want to print out Hebrew letters any more. It's still Sus ( pronounced Soos) but when I tried to reprint the Hebrew letters in a cut and past it gave O I O like it did for you.

It's still the same word though.

In Jeremiah 8:7 and Isaiah 38:14 the same word is translated Crane, for the bird. The other 138 times it refers to actual horses but the word itself is about the action of leaping up which every animal it describes does so it's describing an action, rather than the noun for a particular animal. It is best translated as Leaper.
Very interesting!!
 

3 Nails 4 Given

Sinner saved by the blood of Jesus
Perhaps Israel will have some sort of metal recycling program in place. Some metal shavings are highly flammable. Some element compounds used in making metal are highly flammable.

Certain metals are flammable and examples of combustible metals include sodium, potassium, uranium, lithium, plutonium and calcium, with the most common Class D fires involve magnesium and titanium.

So it is highly likely modern mechanized military vehicles could be used as fuel to burn for years.
 

lismore

Well-Known Member
Which leads me to my question: will the invading army be literal horses and chariots or was this Ezekiel describing the army to the best of his ability given his knowledge at the time?
That's an interesting question. Perhaps radiation and EMPs will interfere to some extent with technology, not removing it completely but making some reversion to earlier forms of technology necessary for the mass mobilisation of armies. I know that Russia still uses a cavalry division on horseback for the Caucasus Mountains and that the Moroccan army has a camel brigade for the tough deserts of the Sahara, which are more durable than road vehicles in harsh terrain. The wars of the end times will be frantic affairs where nations use whatever they have to hand. God Bless You :)
 

Reason & Hope

Well-Known Member
How would you describe a cell phone to someone from 500 BC? They have no idea what plastic is , no idea about electronics, no idea about batteries, no idea about touchscreens, no idea of cell towers, processors, CPU, RAM, Apps and the like - so how would you describe it to them? in the written form and not talking to them, but writing it down so they can read it - or at the very least of what it does in words they would understand. What would you write?

The reverse is also true - a man from 500 BC trying to describe modern weapons of war - he would use his description based on what he knows at the time of the vision

As in Rev 1:11 saying, What thou seest, write in a book
Fun exercise.

Each man held an oracle in his hand. They consulted them day and night.

Men used the powers of the air to speak over vast distances.
 

Rocky R.

Well-Known Member
Just thought of something >> What if in their rabid desire to go green and kill their enemies in a "clean" way they decide on using literal chariots horses? Haha, could happen.
 

Len

Well-Known Member
What if in their rabid desire to go green and kill their enemies in a "clean" way they decide on using literal chariots horses?
I did ponder that question for a bit but then thought it was too much methane production on the hoof for greenies and using up too many good oats to fuel the muscle machines that they could eat? but who knows, I trust that what ever they are, they will be there just as God has said!
 

GHoe

Well-Known Member
I am no bible scholar by any means, but after doing some research I located among a thread of 65 bible verses which included horses and chariots, the following:

Psalm 20:7
Some boast in chariots and some in horses,
But we will boast in the name of the Lord, our God.

In almost every other instance of horses and chariots being mentioned in the bible, it was regarding the demise, the pride, the downfall of the army wielding such. I think the horses and chariots in the Bible often signify man working in their own strength, (outside of the will of God). In Ezekial the armies will likely have extraordinary weapons (today's chariots and horses) and they'll puff their chests and boast in their ability and capabilities of their weaponry, instead of boasting in the Lord.

Just a thought.
 

Wings Like Eagles

Well-Known Member
I'm back, rested up.

First off the thread that we got into this is here: https://www.raptureforums.com/forum...atrooper-division-august-2013-article.168728/

Let's get into the horses and chariots

Actually the Bible says Leapers. It is a term that includes horses, but also includes other things that jump or leap or gallop. If we were to properly translate the term into old English it might be better termed "things that carry people very fast and leap and gallop ahead".

It actually can also be translated as 2 types of birds, swallows and I think cranes.

But time honoured tradition in translation says horses. Because the KJV translators couldn't think of anything airborne.

The term is a much more encompassing one that our word "horse" and embraces more than just a standard variety hayburner as my grandad used to call them.

I went into my eSword which has the Strong's numbers and the Hebrew to English meanings.

Here is my esword with Ez 38:4 where we see those horses:
And I will turn thee back, H7725  and put H5414  hooks H2397  into thy jaws, H3895  and I will bring thee forth, H3318  ( H853 ) and all H3605  thine army, H2428  horses H5483  and horsemen, H6571  all H3605  of them clothed H3847  with all sorts H4358  of armour, even a great H7227  company H6951  with bucklers H6793  and shields, H4043  all H3605  of them handling H8610  swords: H2719 

The word HORSES H5483 is this
sûs sûs

soos, soos

From an unused root meaning to skip (properly for joy); a horse(as leaping); also a swallow (from its rapid flight): - crane, horse ([-back, -hoof]). Compare H6571.

and Horsemen is H6571 which is this:
pârâsh

paw-rawsh'

From H6567; a steed (as stretched out to a vehicle, not single nor for mounting (compare H5483)); also (by implication) a driver(in a chariot), that is, (collectively) cavalry: - horseman.

So the word for horses also can mean something that FLIES RAPIDLY, or a horse, or something that skips or leaps

and the word for HORSEMEN means vehicle, that is NOT singular for mounting but rather something that is driven by a driver, and is a collective which gets us back to the idea of a crew inside a cockpit or a tank. It includes the idea of a chariot driver with more than one occupant in that vehicle.

This is where some translations may give the word chariots. Let me know which version and the verse and I can look it up in eSword again to be sure.

This doesn't abuse scripture or the literal meaning of the scripture at all.
Interesting. Antichrist is described as "honouring the god of fortresses" in Daniel 11:37-38. I take it to mean that he will manipulate the world's military leaders into supporting his agenda. "Woke" Generals will gladly go right along with him. It seems they will become bird food, however, (Revelation 19:18-21). Those traitors to the human race will wish they'd never been born.
 

lismore

Well-Known Member
It might indeed be a real possibility if ever such a CME or EMP did occur.
Hello maryrae! Yes I have heard of CME and EMP before. I believe such a thing might lead to a short-term or local reduction in technology. But people would still retain the knowledge to make electrical circuits. If circuits were fried, would they not make new ones? Just my thoughts. God Bless :)
 

Cjhadley

Member
The problem I see with an EMP or something similar being used is that it would make it harder to implement the Mark of the Beast system and also, like someone else mentioned, the bible says that the whole world will rejoice when the 2 witnesses are killed. That shows that communication is able to travel quickly and it also states that the world will witness them being resurrected after 3 days. That is only possible with modern technology.
 

Dave_97

Well-Known Member
The problem I see with an EMP or something similar being used is that it would make it harder to implement the Mark of the Beast system and also, like someone else mentioned, the bible says that the whole world will rejoice when the 2 witnesses are killed. That shows that communication is able to travel quickly and it also states that the world will witness them being resurrected after 3 days. That is only possible with modern technology.
Personally, I don’t think there is an EMP that make the invaders of Israel use horses and chariots. For same simple reason that the book of Revelation hints at technology in play.

In terms of the Gog-Magog war. It could be God simply showed Ezekiel the prophecy with equipment from Ezekiel’s time to easily describe it. Maybe Ezekiel really did see literal horses and chariots, but the prophecy would actually take place in our time with modern (21st Century) equipments but in the same manner/order the way Ezekiel describe it. It would be practical impossible for Ezekiel to describe modern technology of our time from his perspective.
 

Jan51

Well-Known Member
Eze. 39:9-10
9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord God.

So, 10 speaks of Israelis no longer needing to gather firewood from the fields or get it by cutting trees in the forest. Does anyone think this is literal for today? Is this how they heat their homes? No, but this is what they did in Ezekiel's day. Which lends credence to the possibility that the rest is given in the cultural context of his day, and is to be interpreted as such.
 

Len

Well-Known Member
10 speaks of Israelis no longer needing to gather firewood from the fields or get it by cutting trees in the forest. Does anyone think this is literal for today? Is this how they heat their homes?
I guess it is possible that when that time comes about something changes in poor peoples home heating/cooking needs???
 

Belle of Grace

Longing for Home
It could be God simply showed Ezekiel the prophecy with equipment from Ezekiel’s time to easily describe it. Maybe Ezekiel really did see literal horses and chariots, but the prophecy would actually take place in our time with modern (21st Century) equipments but in the same manner/order the way Ezekiel describes it.
Yes, he did prophesy horses. I heard a well known pastor discussing this same topic awhile back. He spoke of the mountainous terrain that the invading forces from the north would have to go through. He said most likely horses would indeed be used out of necessity. The pastor quoted from Arnold Fruchtenbaum for much of what he said, and then said that he agrees that it's going to be horses, for one reason being he's a literalist when it comes to reading the Bible. I am, too, and I agree with Pastor Andy Woods' conclusion. He's a pretty good Bible scholar.
 
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