Literal chariots and horses?

MePlus6

Well-Known Member
I was just reading some article about coronal mass ejections, which are waves of particles from the sun that can and do interfere with satellites. They also cause the aurora.

A substantial coronal mass ejection could fry the power grid. Our magnetosphere protects us but a strong enough ejection could cause problems.

In Ez 38, the invading forces against Israel are described as an army of chariots and horses.

I am one who thinks the Bible should be taken literally unless there’s context or reason to apply it otherwise.

The prophet Ezekiel would likely have had no idea about modern military equipment. But surely the army in his vision wouldn’t have looked like horses.

Which leads me to my question: will the invading army be literal horses and chariots or was this Ezekiel describing the army to the best of his ability given his knowledge at the time?
 

maryrae

Well-Known Member
Good question!
I have heard of similar scenarios being discussed by prophecy teachers/preachers. I also have heard that Russia or one of it's satelite nations is known for its military accumen with horses e.g. the Cossack's, still in place today.
It might indeed be a real possibility if ever such a CME or EMP did occur.
 

Hiftobaf

Well-Known Member
If you assume Ezekiel 39 is talking about the same war as Ezekiel 38, Ezekiel 39:9-10 states that Israel will burn those weapons for 7 years for fuel. You can recycle scrap metal, but it's not a fuel source Ezekiel 39:10 states that Israel won't need to clear forests for fuel because of the weapons, which could would imply the weapons are made of wood..
 

katt

Well-Known Member
I was just reading some article about coronal mass ejections, which are waves of particles from the sun that can and do interfere with satellites. They also cause the aurora.

A substantial coronal mass ejection could fry the power grid. Our magnetosphere protects us but a strong enough ejection could cause problems.

In Ez 38, the invading forces against Israel are described as an army of chariots and horses.

I am one who thinks the Bible should be taken literally unless there’s context or reason to apply it otherwise.

The prophet Ezekiel would likely have had no idea about modern military equipment. But surely the army in his vision wouldn’t have looked like horses.

Which leads me to my question: will the invading army be literal horses and chariots or was this Ezekiel describing the army to the best of his ability given his knowledge at the time?
I agree, The Holy Spirit inspired the bible, God knows language and created horses, he knows the difference between a horse and a tank, he would have inspired something much different had Ezekiel seen tanks, now chariots? Maybe the chariots are the tanks he saw, however I have been told that those mountains cannot be crossed by modern equipment, horses are needed for that, this is why Russia has horses in thier military, Revelation says Armageddon will be fought on horses, which tells me, somebody somewhere does drop an EMT Bomb...
 

Everlasting Life

Through Faith in Jesus
I agree, The Holy Spirit inspired the bible, God knows language and created horses, he knows the difference between a horse and a tank, he would have inspired something much different had Ezekiel seen tanks, now chariots? Maybe the chariots are the tanks he saw, however I have been told that those mountains cannot be crossed by modern equipment, horses are needed for that, this is why Russia has horses in thier military, Revelation says Armageddon will be fought on horses, which tells me, somebody somewhere does drop an EMT Bomb...

Yeah, those are my thoughts too. Especially since in Revelation the whole world will rejoice when the 2 witnesses die, giving gifts for 3 days. That means news will travel fast and I suspect there will still be an internet or satellite network still around.

But as was said earlier up in thread, time will tell....
 

Wings Like Eagles

Well-Known Member
Good question!
I have heard of similar scenarios being discussed by prophecy teachers/preachers. I also have heard that Russia or one of it's satelite nations is known for its military accumen with horses e.g. the Cossack's, still in place today.
It might indeed be a real possibility if ever such a CME or EMP did occur.
There are some places that are so rocky, steep, barren, etc. that animals are better for getting around than mechanized modes of transportation. Military officers used to be required to be comfortable on the back of a horse.
 

Wings Like Eagles

Well-Known Member
Exactly some things we can only speculate, like my thinking that the Muslim faith will be completely destroyed at the Ezekiel war.
Probably not, as the most populous Muslim nation is Indonesia--very far from the theatre of action in the Ezekiel war. They could be brought into the conflict, but Indonesians, in the main, aren't very radical in their interpretation of the Quran. The Ezekiel war could wipe out Islam in the Middle East however.
 

daygo

Well-Known Member
Probably not, as the most populous Muslim nation is Indonesia--very far from the theatre of action in the Ezekiel war. They could be brought into the conflict, but Indonesians, in the main, aren't very radical in their interpretation of the Quran. The Ezekiel war could wipe out Islam in the Middle East however.
True, you could be right, good thinking.
 

Rocky R.

Well-Known Member
I was just reading some article about coronal mass ejections, which are waves of particles from the sun that can and do interfere with satellites. They also cause the aurora.

A substantial coronal mass ejection could fry the power grid. Our magnetosphere protects us but a strong enough ejection could cause problems.

In Ez 38, the invading forces against Israel are described as an army of chariots and horses.

I am one who thinks the Bible should be taken literally unless there’s context or reason to apply it otherwise.

The prophet Ezekiel would likely have had no idea about modern military equipment. But surely the army in his vision wouldn’t have looked like horses.

Which leads me to my question: will the invading army be literal horses and chariots or was this Ezekiel describing the army to the best of his ability given his knowledge at the time?
Catastrophic judgments of God during the Tribulation will further diminish their capacity to do battle. Also, taking into consideration the inevitability of EMP's generated by nuclear blasts which will cripple anything electrical and electronic, the Antichrist forces and any leftover human army just might revert to an equestrian-mounted force in order to carry out their campaign. But that will be short-lived because as soon as The LORD and His army descend from Heaven, it's game over for them.
 

seated with Christ

Come quickly, Lord Jesus.
Good question!
I have heard of similar scenarios being discussed by prophecy teachers/preachers. I also have heard that Russia or one of it's satelite nations is known for its military accumen with horses e.g. the Cossack's, still in place today.
It might indeed be a real possibility if ever such a CME or EMP did occur.
The Cossack’s are not horses they are horsemen, expert horsemen as are the Mongols of the Steppes (Mongolian Desert).
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
I'm back, rested up.

First off the thread that we got into this is here: https://www.raptureforums.com/forum...atrooper-division-august-2013-article.168728/

Let's get into the horses and chariots

Actually the Bible says Leapers. It is a term that includes horses, but also includes other things that jump or leap or gallop. If we were to properly translate the term into old English it might be better termed "things that carry people very fast and leap and gallop ahead".

It actually can also be translated as 2 types of birds, swallows and I think cranes.

But time honoured tradition in translation says horses. Because the KJV translators couldn't think of anything airborne.

The term is a much more encompassing one that our word "horse" and embraces more than just a standard variety hayburner as my grandad used to call them.

I went into my eSword which has the Strong's numbers and the Hebrew to English meanings.

Here is my esword with Ez 38:4 where we see those horses:
And I will turn thee back, H7725  and put H5414  hooks H2397  into thy jaws, H3895  and I will bring thee forth, H3318  ( H853 ) and all H3605  thine army, H2428  horses H5483  and horsemen, H6571  all H3605  of them clothed H3847  with all sorts H4358  of armour, even a great H7227  company H6951  with bucklers H6793  and shields, H4043  all H3605  of them handling H8610  swords: H2719 

The word HORSES H5483 is this
sûs sûs

soos, soos

From an unused root meaning to skip (properly for joy); a horse(as leaping); also a swallow (from its rapid flight): - crane, horse ([-back, -hoof]). Compare H6571.

and Horsemen is H6571 which is this:
pârâsh

paw-rawsh'

From H6567; a steed (as stretched out to a vehicle, not single nor for mounting (compare H5483)); also (by implication) a driver(in a chariot), that is, (collectively) cavalry: - horseman.

So the word for horses also can mean something that FLIES RAPIDLY, or a horse, or something that skips or leaps

and the word for HORSEMEN means vehicle, that is NOT singular for mounting but rather something that is driven by a driver, and is a collective which gets us back to the idea of a crew inside a cockpit or a tank. It includes the idea of a chariot driver with more than one occupant in that vehicle.

This is where some translations may give the word chariots. Let me know which version and the verse and I can look it up in eSword again to be sure.

This doesn't abuse scripture or the literal meaning of the scripture at all.
 
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athenasius

Well-Known Member
Verse 9 of Ezekiel chapter 38 hints at an airborne force as we see here:
Thou shalt ascend H5927  and come H935  like a storm, H7722  thou shalt be H1961  like a cloud H6051  to cover H3680  the land, H776  thou, H859  and all H3605  thy bands, H102  and many H7227  people H5971  with H854  thee.

Starting with that word we translate as Ascend: H5927
‛âlâh
aw-law'
A primitive root; to ascend, intransitively (be high) or active (mount); used in a great variety of senses, primary and secondary, literally and figuratively: - arise (up). (cause to) ascend up, at once, break [the day] (up), bring (up), (cause to) burn, carry up, cast up, + shew, climb (up), (cause to, make to) come (up), cut off, dawn, depart, exalt, excel, fall, fetch up, get up, (make to) go (away, up), grow (over), increase, lay, leap, levy, lift (self) up, light, [make] up, X mention, mount up, offer, make to pay, + perfect, prefer, put (on), raise, recover, restore, (make to) rise (up), scale, set (up), shoot forth (up), (begin to) spring (up), stir up, take away (up), work.

all of which seems to say UP.

storm H7722 is this:
shô' shô'âh shô'âh
sho, sho-aw', sho-aw'
From an unused root meaning to rush over; a tempest; by implication devastation: - desolate (-ion), destroy, destruction, storm, wasteness.

so we saw ascending now the implication is that this army is behaving like a devastating storm. It's coming in at considerable speed, like the winds driving a storm.

Like a cloud H6051
‛ânân
aw-nawn'
From H6049; a cloud (as covering the sky), that is, the nimbusor thunder cloud: - cloud (-y).

so we again see this airborne threat coming in like a devastating storm, like a thunder cloud covering the sky

and this triple repitition seems to imply an AIRBORNE threat. As we saw in the Hebrew words translated into English as horse in Ezek 38:4 --this can include airborne vehicles that fly.

These same terms are repeated further on down in the chapter in the same way. The enemy comes from his place in the North-- rising UP, behaving like a storm cloud or a gathering thunderhead-- a nimbus type cloud.

This enemy of Israel uses some type of vehicle and the word we translate horse can also mean 2 different flying birds. The key terms in the definition are speed and going up into the air at points like a horse leaping or a crane or swallow flying. The word for horsemen implies riding in a vehicle, not as a horseback rider, but as a chariot driver with others beside in the chariot.

Until the dawn of the age of flight, NO Bible translator would have taken the Hebrew word Soos H5483 in it's other TWO meanings-- both birds. Instead of translating it flying in on cranes or swallows, they felt sure that Horses would be the best translation.


H5483 is this
sûs sûs

soos, soos

From an unused root meaning to skip (properly for joy); a horse(as leaping); also a swallow (from its rapid flight): - crane, horse ([-back, -hoof]).

But since the Wright brothers famous flight, the meaning in Soos or Leaper is back to being something that leaps, skips, or flies.
 
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Hidden

Well-Known Member
Verse 9 of Ezekiel chapter 38 hints at an airborne force as we see here:
Thou shalt ascend H5927  and come H935  like a storm, H7722  thou shalt be H1961  like a cloud H6051  to cover H3680  the land, H776  thou, H859  and all H3605  thy bands, H102  and many H7227  people H5971  with H854  thee.

Starting with that word we translate as Ascend: H5927
‛âlâh
aw-law'
A primitive root; to ascend, intransitively (be high) or active (mount); used in a great variety of senses, primary and secondary, literally and figuratively: - arise (up). (cause to) ascend up, at once, break [the day] (up), bring (up), (cause to) burn, carry up, cast up, + shew, climb (up), (cause to, make to) come (up), cut off, dawn, depart, exalt, excel, fall, fetch up, get up, (make to) go (away, up), grow (over), increase, lay, leap, levy, lift (self) up, light, [make] up, X mention, mount up, offer, make to pay, + perfect, prefer, put (on), raise, recover, restore, (make to) rise (up), scale, set (up), shoot forth (up), (begin to) spring (up), stir up, take away (up), work.

all of which seems to say UP.

storm H7722 is this:
shô' shô'âh shô'âh
sho, sho-aw', sho-aw'
From an unused root meaning to rush over; a tempest; by implication devastation: - desolate (-ion), destroy, destruction, storm, wasteness.

so we saw ascending now the implication is that this army is behaving like a devastating storm. It's coming in at considerable speed, like the winds driving a storm.

Like a cloud H6051
‛ânân
aw-nawn'
From H6049; a cloud (as covering the sky), that is, the nimbusor thunder cloud: - cloud (-y).

so we again see this airborne threat coming in like a devastating storm, like a thunder cloud covering the sky

and this triple repitition seems to imply an AIRBORNE threat. As we saw in the Hebrew words translated into English as horse in Ezek 38:4 --this can include airborne vehicles that fly.

These same terms are repeated further on down in the chapter in the same way. The enemy comes from his place in the North-- rising UP, behaving like a storm cloud or a gathering thunderhead-- a nimbus type cloud.

This enemy of Israel uses some type of vehicle and the word we translate horse can also mean 2 different flying birds. The key terms in the definition are speed and going up into the air at points like a horse leaping or a crane or swallow flying. The word for horsemen implies riding in a vehicle, not as a horseback rider, but as a chariot driver with others beside in the chariot.

Until the dawn of the age of flight, NO Bible translator would have taken the Hebrew word Soos H5483 in it's other TWO meanings-- both birds. Instead of translating it flying in on cranes or swallows, they felt sure that Horses would be the best translation.


H5483 is this
sûs sûs

soos, soos

From an unused root meaning to skip (properly for joy); a horse(as leaping); also a swallow (from its rapid flight): - crane, horse ([-back, -hoof]).

But since the Wright brothers famous flight, the meaning in Soos or Leaper is back to being something that leaps, skips, or flies.

*Mindblown*

It amazes me how much insight God is revealing to us these final moments before the fulfillment of end time prophecies. Studying the Hebrew words of a somewhat puzzling passage really clears up a lot of things. Well done.

I just saw a Tik Tok entitled "Putin Military Escort" where Putin looks out the window and he is flanked by fighter jets on both sides. It has garnered around 35k comments and people are practically swooning over him. One comment said, "The planes don't guard him. He guards the planes." :oops:

Putin almost has a cult-like following. Whether he is or he's not the physical host of Gog remains to be seen.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
*Mindblown*

It amazes me how much insight God is revealing to us these final moments before the fulfillment of end time prophecies. Studying the Hebrew words of a somewhat puzzling passage really clears up a lot of things. Well done.

I just saw a Tik Tok entitled "Putin Military Escort" where Putin looks out the window and he is flanked by fighter jets on both sides. It has garnered around 35k comments and people are practically swooning over him. One comment said, "The planes don't guard him. He guards the planes." :oops:

Putin almost has a cult-like following. Whether he is or he's not the physical host of Gog remains to be seen.
you are so right about that cult leader vibe with Putin. He has his loyal followers, and he does have a charming personality by all accounts. I'm sure it helped him win friends and influence the power brokers in the KGB.

He can order the death of journalists and turn around and charm all of Israel by recounting his youth, being fed by a Jewish neighbour in his apartment as a young and hungry boy, being taught by a Jewish schoolteacher all of which the Israeli press ate up with a spoon. But behind the charm those bodies of dead journalists pile up like cordwood ready for winter.
 
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