Staff member
Only a remnant of Jews are saved during Jesus' second coming; we are not saying all Jews are saved, most are atheists, we are saying God preserves a remnant of Abraham's seed as a kept promise in covenant with Abraham; and many Arabs and Muslims are getting saved as well, and many more will be saved during the tribulation, as another kept promise to Abraham. Our God is a Faithful God. :nod

Elijah's Mantle

Well-Known Member
Yes, bro. and "seek and ye shall find" presupposes a humble spirit and a contrite heart. Those who try to learn the things of God, thinking they are something, will never find the truth God holds for them. It is only as we recognize our poverty of spirit that He will fill us with His wisdom ... to the degree to which He knows we are ready for it. Humble seeking is a life-long pursuit.

"I say, then, hath God cast away His people? God forbid! For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance." (Romans 11:1,29)

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part if happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob." (Romans 11:25-26)

Mr obadiah118, your doctrine regarding Israel is dead wrong.
29:8-19 Let men beware how they call those prophets whom they choose after their own fancies, and how they consider their fancies and dreams to be revelations from God. False prophets flatter people in their sins, because they love to be flattered; and they speak smoothly to their prophets, that their prophets may speak smoothly to them. God promises that they should return after seventy years were accomplished. By this it appears, that the seventy years of the captivity are not to be reckoned from the last captivity, but the first. It will be the bringing to pass of God's good word to them. This shall form God's purposes. We often do not know our own minds, but the Lord is never at an uncertainty. We are sometimes ready to fear that God's designs are all against us; but as to his own people, even that which seems evil, is for good. He will give them, not the expectations of their fears, or the expectations of their fancies, but the expectations of their faith; the end he has promised, which will be the best for them. When the Lord pours out an especial spirit of prayer, it is a good sign that he is coming toward us in mercy. Promises are given to quicken and encourage prayer. He never said, Seek ye me in vain. Those who remained at Jerusalem would be utterly destroyed, notwithstanding what the false prophets said to the contrary. The reason has often been given, and it justifies the eternal ruin of impenitent sinners; Because they have not hearkened to my words; I called, but they refused.

when Shadrach ,Meshach and Abed-Nego was on trial for disobedience they declared by answer "If it be so , our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace and he will deliver us out of your hand o king

they have no assurance that they will be delivered only that the Lord is able to deliver .

But if Not , be it known unto you o king that we will not serve your gods nor worship the golden image which you have set up

But if not, does not show a lack of faith , but only that they are not functioning in the realm of presumption. As so many do .

Isaiah 43 .... But now thus saith the Lord who created you O Jacob and He who formed you O Israel fear not for I have redeemed you I have called you by your name you are mine

when you pass through the waters I will be with you and through the rivers they shall not overflow you when you walk through the fire you shall not be burned neither shall the flame kindle upon you

Israel's past history affords striking proof of the truthfulness of the verses the future will reveal even more of this same proof

such prophecies not only apply to Israel
but Any follower of the Lord Jesus Christ

I don't function under a presumption because either way
I am delivered , Just as surely as Shadrach ,Meshach and Abed-Nego was

therefore I do not have to presuppose
that what I learn from God's word , no matter how picked out of context a particular statement winds up contrary to what I intended to convey, often enough, it can wind up becoming a statement of presupposition of another where matters only God can determine is presupposed regarding the state of the heart and spirit

Shadrach ,Meshach and Abed-Nego has a neat way of connecting the dots for me regarding the remnant of Israel and the most High God , of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.

As Jeremiah stood with a yoke of wood around his neck symbolizing the Babylonian yoke, that would remain and even intensify upon Judah .Hannaniah the prophet no doubt ridicules the stupidity of such and to his own detriment because obviously the Holy spirit was grossly offended by Hananiah forcibly taking the yoke of the neck of the true prophet and then breaking it . He had set himself to oppose the word of the lord and such is always without exception a dangerous occupation for the yoke of wood become then a yoke of iron upon the neck of the nations

I do not have to seek in vain ,and normally when I study the word of God it is not that I do so in vain and when it comes to thinking I am something , the only thing I think is I am a child of God if that is thinking I am something the some things are I believe I am saved by his sovereign grace alone and kept by that same grace that can come only from God. To say that some
will never find the truth God holds for them.
Presupposes much opposition indeed

Its not a matter of splitting hairs regarding the content of my heart and the condition of my spirit is it ?

Maybe I dont have to ask if it is ok to share with others what inspires me to study for myself God's word and take to heart God is not against me believing .

I am confounded to the 100th degree of total perplexity that some of my brethren may in fact be :shocked

I wont judge what has or has not been presupposed in the picking out of what I did say regarding seeking neither will I disregard the sincerity of what your stating you believe regarding seeking

I only know I do not seek in vain ,not because much of what I find is truly vain and that I have had life lessons still to be learned , yet it is ever bit as true that not even the Pharisee's who sought to kill the Lord in the name of the Lord !!!! Because that was how blind they were in fact .

I guess its best to sighn off stating they must have presuposed they had the right to

yet look how Gracefully God used what they did do for this wretched sinners benefit

no matter how hard I try to presuppose your right to state you believe your right in all sincerity to say that which you have I can not get around the obvious way I feel Judged disgracefully

For the record it has never been my intentions to become that which I am said to be by some of my brethren

I merely attempted to avoid becoming accused once again of beating people with the word of God , I realize in my maturity regarding the word I have become almost despised by some
And that is why brother I stated "seek and you shall find"

I am finding it more than Judgmental that you would have chosen to of used it to claim .... "Yes, bro. and "seek and ye shall find" presupposes a humble spirit and a contrite heart. Those who try to learn the things of God, thinking they are something, will never find the truth God holds for them. It is only as we recognize our poverty of spirit that He will fill us with His wisdom ... to the degree to which He knows we are ready for it. Humble seeking is a life-long pursuit.

I am not so arrogant that I would dare to presuppose that someone Else's growth and maturity was open season to begin a series of Judgments regarding them

That is precisely what I believe is happening regarding me and my effort to share even the basics of God's word with people here on RF I had hoped and prayed fervently from my heart could have victory over some bondage's just as surely as I pray it also for myself :crying

what I am learning from doing so is that I am being Judged by you as being some one you obviously believe I have become what I a few weeks ago , I was told I was . rude and condescending and a terrible witness who likes to abuse people with Gods word

should I presuppose at this point I should not take it personal that which I am seeking to understand as to why ? is not also a lesson least learned by those who would have me to do so ?

After all I have no problem admitting some things I intended to do comes out extraordinarily poorly. Even though from my heart of hearts I had the higher hopes of conveying to meg a message that would or could help because I believe the message had the power of the gospel on it to do so

I find it poor in spirit indeed to now find after a few weeks of attempting to give it all a much needed break that the content of my heart and spirit is being judged by you apparently now , from the picking out of a sentence I shared in hopes folk's would be inspired to read what I take the time to to do so for themselves It kinda leaves me without ability to tell you how grand of a presupposition I believe is more being made by the obvious Judges who also tell others not to do it ! Ill leave the critical wording out of it but I know when flying accusations begin for reason they tend not to stop for others Im sorry it ispired you to claim a determined statement one of which I am totally unsure who you ment it for ...... It really would not matter how utterly wrong someones doctrine regarding Israel is if they had to presuppose their seeking was in vain which I don't believe if I read the sincerity of the heart of the speaker stating it I could presuppose it was meant to be said
that they would never find the truth God holds for them.


Staff member
Brother, I think you have completely misunderstood. What I wrote was an expansion of the excellent message that you wrote. It was IN NO WAY a criticism of you. Not at all. In fact I find nothing in you to criticize ... nor would I criticize you if I ever did find something. that is not what God calls us to do. You have totally taken what was intended as an expansion of what God is showing you and interpreted it as some sort of attack aimed at you. I would have thought you would know me a lot better by now. Brother, I beseech you in Christ— please do not let Satan twist things offered to God and make them into things that are used to hurt you. :hug

Elijah's Mantle

Well-Known Member
Brother, I beseech you in Christ— please do not let Satan twist things offered to God and make them into things that are used to hurt you.

As surely as I live and speak satan has been doing just that lately and I am Grateful beyond words for being beseeched in Christ by you Beloved Brother :hug

I must be knowing better yes I agree :(( I know to know that satan has been doing just what you said . As poorly as I may have not said it better what I believed , I believe in all sincerity your right on the mark to confirm what my enemy would have preferred I believe .

As many times as we are taken through the refining fire again and again seemingly it surely is miraculous how gifted you truly are Brother Matt at confirming what I know I do believe :yeah:

God has Blessed you and me both real big I believe this time around for certain :hug

I am certain satan won't like it one little bit though