left behind

Discussion in 'Bible Study Q & A' started by Kaatje, Nov 23, 2018.

  1. OutWest

    OutWest Active Member

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    In order to qualify as a "true" Christian, it's essential to believe that Jesus Christ's crucified dead body was restored to life. That belief isn't optional. According to Rom 10:9, that belief is a must.

    It's surprising the number of Christians I encounter in church and online who honestly think they believe in Jesus' resurrection when in reality they don't; instead, they believe Jesus came back from the dead in a glorified body.

    But John 2:19-22 does not permit Jesus to come back from the dead in a glorified body, no; it requires him to come back from the dead with the very same body in which he was crucified.

    Q: If Jesus now has a glorified body, then when did he get it if not Easter morning?

    A: When he was raptured. (Acts 1:1-9)

    Jesus' resurrection, and his subsequent rapture, was a microcosm of the activity that's to take place during his church's rapture. First the dead in Christ will be restored to life. Afterwards those in Christ who are alive will join them to leave the Earth all at the same time, en masse. On the way up to meet the Lord in the air, everyone's body will undergo a miraculous transformation just as his did. It's all explained in 1Thess 4:13-18.

    I won't even hazard a guess as to the total number of people in Jesus' church, but if we tally all the dead in Christ beginning with the day of Pentecost nearly two thousand years ago till now, and then add them to the ones alive today; his church is going to fill the sky in such numbers from all the globe that the event should be quite a sight to behold.
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    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  2. twerpv

    twerpv Well-Known Member

    Please explain the difference between “resurrected” and “glorified body”?

    Thank you.
     
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  3. Kaatje

    Kaatje Well-Known Member

    It was His own body, yes, but it was of a total other “substance” than before.
    The disciples recognized His body complete with the marks of nails and spear,
    but He could also come through a closed door. So yes, a glorified body. Imho.
     
  4. Salluz

    Salluz Well-Known Member

    Are you saying that if someone believes Jesus' resurrected body wasn't subject to death they are not truly saved? He appeared in locked rooms and disappeared at will. Is that something you can do right now? I haven't learned how to do that with my natural body, but if you know how please tell me.

    Is this stemming from the false belief that a glorified body isn't physical? Christ's resurrection was a physical resurrection with the same body just different capabilities, just the same as our glorified bodies at the rapture will be the same bodies with different capabilities.

    Are you honestly saying that because I believe Jesus' body since his resurrection is different in capability from before hand I can't be saved? That's what it sounds like you're saying in the portion I quoted.
     
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  5. lenraff

    lenraff Well-Known Member

    I believe everyone on earth will know the rapture took place. Imo, we have a type given to us in
    Mat_27:52  "And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose" when Christ's resurrection took place. This may be giving us an example of what our own escape from the grave will look like, Graveyards all over the world scrambling to fill in holes and hide the evidence. And us, singing in the balcony.
    As far as the old testament children who suffered the wrath of God along with their parents, the word tells us:

    Mat_4:16
      The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.
    1Pe 3:18  For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 
    1Pe 3:19  By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 
    1Pe 3:20  Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

    Above all, we can depend on the righteousness of our God, for even the old testament sinners in Sheol heard the Son of God preach the good news. In Is.14 it tells us satan never lets his prisoners go free, but Christ has the power and authority to set anyone free He choses.
     
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  6. OutWest

    OutWest Active Member

    .

    The New Testament's Greek word for "resurrection" is anastasis (an-as'-tas-is). It basically refers to standing up again, viz: getting back up on your feet; and it applies to everybody: both the good dead and the bad dead.

    John 5:28-29 . . The hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
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  7. OutWest

    OutWest Active Member

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    Christ walked on water, restored withered limbs, cured people born blind, healed serious diseases like leprosy, restored dead bodies to life, controlled the weather, multiplied fish and bread, turned water into wine, and levitated. Plus; he once said that rocks could be made to speak. (Luke 19:40)

    What's one more miracle, more or less? Walking through walls? Disappearing and reappearing? How hard could any of that really be for a man with the powers of God at his disposal?

    It's curious how people can say they believe in miracles, yet cannot believe that God has sufficient control over the laws of nature to make a physical human body pass through solid objects. What defines miracles anyway? Aren't they acts of God that defy reason and common sense?
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  8. Kaatje

    Kaatje Well-Known Member

  9. OutWest

    OutWest Active Member

    .
    1Pet 3:18-20 . . Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.

    That's a very popular passage with Jehovah's Witnesses to support the Watchtower Society's teaching that Jesus came back from death as a spirit being rather than a human being. But there is a much better use for it than that.

    Well; the Spirit's preaching took place in real time back in Noah's day; not thousands of years later in Jesus' day.

    Gen 6:2-3 . .Then the Lord said: My spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal

    So: the Spirit spoken of in 1Peter is the self same Spirit spoken of in Genesis. In other words; Christ's sprit and My spirit, are one and the same spirit; a.ka. the Holy Spirit.

    (Yes, I am a Trinitarian. It's best I admit it now because you'll all find out eventually anyway.)

    So, how did the Spirit preach? As himself in person, or some other way? Well; the Spirit preached the way that the Spirit has always preached: via inspired men.

    2Pet 2:5 . .Noah . . a preacher of righteousness.

    In other words; Christ, In the Spirit, inspired Noah-- and actually, Christ inspired other guys in the Old Testament too.

    1Pet 1:10-12 . . Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.
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    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  10. Kaatje

    Kaatje Well-Known Member

    I am a Trinitarian also, meaning that I believe there is One God,
    consisting of 3 Persons: Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

    Is that what you mean when you say you are a Trinitarian,
    or are you a member of the Catholic religious order with the same name?
     
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  11. Andy C

    Andy C Well-Known Member

    Excellent post
     
    chaser likes this.
  12. lenraff

    lenraff Well-Known Member

    Absolutely Kaatye, it was his own body. The only difference was there was no Blood.
    Luk_24:39  Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
    As far as passing through walls and walking on the waters, all creation is under subjection to Him. He is the Creator of and the power that holds all things together.
    Col_1:17  And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. In the Greek: consist is sunistémi /hold together. IE Jesus holds all things together. Scientists have no idea what holds the atom together so they named it "The Strong Force". A weak name for the Omnipotent Savior!
     
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  13. Salluz

    Salluz Well-Known Member

    No one here is saying Christ's body was immaterial. I said from the start that it was a physical resurrection, which is evidenced by the disciples touching Jesus and Jesus eating with them. I think the issue that's arising is a differing definition of what a glorified body is. When we recieve glorified bodies at the rapture, they will still be physical, otherwise they couldn't be called a body. Christ's resurrection was physical, and ours will be as well. Otherwise it wouldn't be a resurrection, since being dead is just having the soul separate from the body
     
  14. twerpv

    twerpv Well-Known Member

    I’m not trying to be difficult but the above reply doesn’t , as far as I can understand, explain the difference between “resurrection” and “glorified body”.
     
  15. OutWest

    OutWest Active Member

    .
    I have been a Conservative Baptist since 1968.
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  16. Steve53

    Steve53 Well-Known Member

    We're starting to venture onto theologically thin ice if we start qualifying belief based on whether or not Christ's resurrection was of the flesh alone.

    To be saved, it is enough to believe only that Christ died for the remission of our sin. John 6:29.
     
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  17. Chris

    Chris Administrator Staff Member

    Agreed. John 3:16 is also worth noting as well. :)
     
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  18. mattfivefour

    mattfivefour Administrator Staff Member

    When Paul wrote that our corruptible bodies will put on incorruption (1 Corinthians 15:53), he was not saying that we will become spirit beings. He is saying that we will be physical beings but with perfect bodies.
     
  19. Patiently...

    Patiently... Well-Known Member

    I have always wondered why Jesus' Glorified body still had the nail marks and was not perfect again. Is that to prove that it was indeed Him?
     
  20. lenraff

    lenraff Well-Known Member

    In Rev. John saw the lamb as it had been slain, the sacrifice being accepted by the father and Jesus receiving, some believe, the title deed to the earth(written on both sides, the front being judgments, we're not told about the back) . Remember in the garden He told Mary not to touch Him for he had not ascended to the Father yet, then fast forward to the Rev. scene.
    Now when Paul spoke of this earthly tabernacle it was in the temporary sense as in a tent. By then goes on to describe a permanent building. He also says we shall be changed, not dissolved or disembodied, but changed, to look like Him.

    As to Jesus having a body in heaven we read that Isaiah saw the Lord High and lifted up, but we read God telling Moses man can't see Him and live. So, imo, we can't see the father in these bodies but we can see Jesus in his resurrected body(Remember Stephen). If I understand properly when Jesus asked the Father to Glorify Him with the glory He had before the father answered He had and will. So from that can we say after the white throne Judgment Jesus will be glorified as He was before creation?

    Whatt'a y'all think?
     

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