Justices Thomas, Alito slam Obergefell same-sex marriage decision as Supreme Court denies Kim Davis case

Lovin Jesus

Well-Known Member
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/thomas-alito-kim-davis-obergefell-decision-same-sex-marriage

Alito and Thomas both dissented from the original Obergefell ruling​


Justices Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito said Monday that Obergefell v. Hodges, the Supreme Court case that mandated all states recognize same-sex marriages, is "found nowhere in the text" of the Constitution and threatens "the religious liberty of the many Americans who believe that marriage is a sacred institution between one man and one woman."

The statement was written by Thomas and joined by Alito about the case of Kim Davis, a former Kentucky county clerk who said she would not give same-sex couples marriage licenses. The two justices said they agreed with the consensus of the court that it should not take Davis' case, but only because it did not "cleanly present" the "important questions about the scope of our decision in Obergefell."

Thomas and Alito dissented from the original Obergefell decision and their statement Monday could indicate that they would vote to overturn it if presented the chance.

"[T]his petition provides a stark reminder of the consequences of Obergefell. By choosing to privilege a novel constitutional right over the religious liberty interests explicitly protected in the First Amendment, and by doing so undemocratically, the court has created a problem that only it can fix," Thomas wrote. "Until then, Obergefell will continue to have 'ruinous consequences for religious liberty.'"

Obergefell was decided in 2015 by a 5-4 court, with then-Justice Anthony Kennedy writing the majority opinion joined by Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Sonia Sotomayor, Elena Kagan and Stephen Breyer.

Thomas said Obergefell forced Davis to choose "between her religious beliefs and her job. When she chose to follow her faith, and without any statutory protection of her religious beliefs, she was sued almost immediately for violating the constitutional rights of same-sex couples."

The Obergefell opinion authored by Kennedy aimed to balance the rights of religious people with those of gay couples, saying that "[m]any who deem same-sex marriage to be wrong reach that conclusion based on decent and honorable religious or philosophical premises."

Kennedy added: "t must be emphasized that religions, and those who adhere to religious doctrines, may continue to advocate with utmost, sincere conviction that, by divine precepts, same-sex marriage should not be condoned."

But Thomas argued Monday that Obergefell is highly flawed and marginalizes those who do not believe in same-sex marriage.

Obergefell enables courts and governments to brand religious adherents who believe that marriage is between one man and one woman as bigots, making their religious liberty concerns that much easier to dismiss," he wrote. "In other words, Obergefell was read to suggest that being a public official with traditional Christian values was legally tantamount to invidious discrimination toward homosexuals."

Thomas added: "This assessment flows directly from Obergefell’s language, which characterized such views as 'disparag[ing]' homosexuals and 'diminish[ing] their personhood' through '[d]ignitary wounds.'"

It is unclear if or when a direct challenge to Obergefell may come before the court, or if there would be enough votes on the court to hear such a challenge. Four justices need to agree for the court to hear a case, and Alito and Thomas are the only ones who went on the record Monday. Justices Brett Kavanaugh and Neil Gorsuch were not on the court when Obergefell was decided.
 

DanLMP

Well-Known Member
Aside from the Theological issue, just as Thomas said, their is nothing in the Constitution that would allow the SCOTUS to effectively create back door legislation.

The same is true of Roe v Wade. They took the "right to privacy" clause of the 14th Amendment and stretched and twisted it until it said what they wanted it to say. Since when does a right to privacy give you permission to kill?

This is why originalists belong on the SCOTUS. Not because they tend to be more conservative but because they respect the Constitution.

The Constitution is the law of the land, not the agendas of people. If you twist the Constitution to say what you want it to say then we no longer have a Constitution. If you don't like what the Constitution says, get an Amendment passed.
 

Lovin Jesus

Well-Known Member
Aside from the Theological issue, just as Thomas said, their is nothing in the Constitution that would allow the SCOTUS to effectively create back door legislation.

The same is true of Roe v Wade. They took the "right to privacy" clause of the 14th Amendment and stretched and twisted it until it said what they wanted it to say. Since when does a right to privacy give you permission to kill?

This is why originalists belong on the SCOTUS. Not because they tend to be more conservative but because they respect the Constitution.

The Constitution is the law of the land, not the agendas of people. If you twist the Constitution to say what you want it to say then we no longer have a Constitution. If you don't like what the Constitution says, get an Amendment passed.
In California it’s state law to give free contraceptives to girls from sixth grade up. All Universities are mandated to provide the abortion pill upon request. If a sixth grader is pregnant the school can take her for an abortion without parental consent or knowledge. This is legal and bound by the state Supreme Court. I don’t believe anyone has gone to the U.S Supreme Court to challange those laws.
 
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DanLMP

Well-Known Member
I don’t believe anyone has gone to the U.S Supreme Court to challange those laws.

Probably because they don't think they would win.

Each of the 50 states has its own Constitution, which doesn't necessarily parallel the Federal Constitution in all points.

I don't know the content of the CA Constitution so I can't comment on whether they are violating the CA Constitution or not.

But in all cases, the Federal Constitution is the supreme law of the land, even over the 50 State Constitutions.

The problem is that CA and anyone else can do anything they want, whether it's Constitutional or not, so long as either no one catches them or no one prosecutes them.

A lot of actions are taken at the local, State and Federal level that wouldn't pass legal muster simply because the people doing those actions think they won't be caught or prosecuted.

CA evidently either has laws that allow them to do that to kids or they believe that those actions will have the support of the people.

In either case its both of these :mad::cry

Thanks for letting us know LJ.
 

Lovin Jesus

Well-Known Member
Probably because they don't think they would win.

Each of the 50 states has its own Constitution, which doesn't necessarily parallel the Federal Constitution in all points.

I don't know the content of the CA Constitution so I can't comment on whether they are violating the CA Constitution or not.

But in all cases, the Federal Constitution is the supreme law of the land, even over the 50 State Constitutions.

The problem is that CA and anyone else can do anything they want, whether it's Constitutional or not, so long as either no one catches them or no one prosecutes them.

A lot of actions are taken at the local, State and Federal level that wouldn't pass legal muster simply because the people doing those actions think they won't be caught or prosecuted.

CA evidently either has laws that allow them to do that to kids or they believe that those actions will have the support of the people.

In either case its both of these :mad::cry

Thanks for letting us know LJ.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/birth-control-at-school-most-say-its-ok/
 

Tall Timbers

Imperfect but forgiven
But in all cases, the Federal Constitution is the supreme law of the land, even over the 50 State Constitutions.

The US Constitution leaves most things for the states to decide. That's one of the great things about our US Constitution. If followed, it prevents power from being centralized. In practice, power should remain closest to the people the decisions will affect.

Of course, we're a long ways from our US Constitution these days. It would be wonderful for the country to return home to its laws and not the whims of twisted politicians and legislating judges.
 
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Lovin Jesus

Well-Known Member
The US Constitutioin leaves most things for the states to decide. That's one of the great things about our US Constitution. If followed, it prevents power from being centralized. In practice, power should remain closest to the people the decisions will affect.

Of course, we're a long ways from our US Constitution these days. It would be wonderful for the country to return home to its laws and not the whims of twisted politicians and legislating judges.
Federalism Law

The basic principle of American federalism is based in the Tenth Amendment (ratified in 1791) to the Constitution which states:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Federalism is a system of government in which power is divided between a national (federal) government and various regional governments. Federalism is a basic concept of American government, in which the states are not merely regional representatives of the federal government, but are granted independent powers and responsibilities. With their own legislative branch, executive branch, and judicial branch, states are empowered to pass, enforce, and interpret laws, as long as they do not violate the Constitution. The federal government determines foreign policy, with exclusive power to make treaties, declare war, and control imports and exports, the states have exclusive power to ratify the Constitution. Most governmental responsibilities, however, are shared by state and federal governments, such as taxation, business regulation, environmental protection, and civil rights.
 
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