John MacArthur teaches that those who take the Mark of the Beast during the Tribulation period can still be redeemed.

Status
Not open for further replies.

AnnainTX

Member
My personal beliefs are that once a person is saved there can be no loss of salvation, because if one believes that you can lose it, Christ's death on the cross would mean nothing and I know that He died for me once to save me forever. It would require repeated times on that cross for every single person, over and over, if loss of salvation were true. I do believe in a person pulling away from God, but that with repentance and restoration with God, their relationship is renewed, but the salvation is not lost. Ever. That said, I have a really interesting question, asked of me from an unsaved friend. If, during the Tribulation, an unsaved person were to be forceably made to take the mark, under torture, or drugs, or something like that, where they are not capable of making that decision for themselves, would they then be damned or would God make it not apply to them? I wasn't really able to answer that, with other than saying they would be damned because they took it, so I said I would ask other Christians and see.
 

Lastcall

Well-Known Member
My personal beliefs are that once a person is saved there can be no loss of salvation, because if one believes that you can lose it, Christ's death on the cross would mean nothing and I know that He died for me once to save me forever. It would require repeated times on that cross for every single person, over and over, if loss of salvation were true. I do believe in a person pulling away from God, but that with repentance and restoration with God, their relationship is renewed, but the salvation is not lost. Ever. That said, I have a really interesting question, asked of me from an unsaved friend. If, during the Tribulation, an unsaved person were to be forceably made to take the mark, under torture, or drugs, or something like that, where they are not capable of making that decision for themselves, would they then be damned or would God make it not apply to them? I wasn't really able to answer that, with other than saying they would be damned because they took it, so I said I would ask other Christians and see.
I agree with Jack Kelley in his below response to the question

Question: You say that according to Rev. 14:9-12 everyone who worships the beast and his image or receives the mark of his name will be lost. Others have said they can be redeemed. I’m reminded of a book by C. S. Lewis that implies that nonbelievers choose their fate and their hearts are hard and won’t change. From this I’d think that those who take the mark do so willingly and no one is forced to take the mark. They may be given a choice but no one will take them down and give them the mark. Am I assuming to much?

ANSWER: I agree with you. I think people who take the mark will do so willingly, as a sign of loyalty. Rev. 13:16 says the false prophet will cause people to take the mark, which means it will be his idea to require it. While the penalty for refusal will be severe, no one will be forced to take the mark against his or her will. Otherwise, a just God could not condemn the people who take it.

https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/fored-take-mark/
 

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
I agree with Jack Kelley in his below response to the question

Question: You say that according to Rev. 14:9-12 everyone who worships the beast and his image or receives the mark of his name will be lost. Others have said they can be redeemed. I’m reminded of a book by C. S. Lewis that implies that nonbelievers choose their fate and their hearts are hard and won’t change. From this I’d think that those who take the mark do so willingly and no one is forced to take the mark. They may be given a choice but no one will take them down and give them the mark. Am I assuming to much?

ANSWER: I agree with you. I think people who take the mark will do so willingly, as a sign of loyalty. Rev. 13:16 says the false prophet will cause people to take the mark, which means it will be his idea to require it. While the penalty for refusal will be severe, no one will be forced to take the mark against his or her will. Otherwise, a just God could not condemn the people who take it.

https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/fored-take-mark/
So true, we forget that the Great Tribulation will be unlike anything we will experience this side of the rapture.
 

Jojo4124

Well-Known Member
I think that what's also severely underestimated is mankind's propensity to rebel against authority, any kind of authority (remember, the Church is in heaven with Christ, leaving those not of Christ behind, those still controlled by their sin nature). I wouldn't be surprised if the 'you can't tell me what to do!' strain of human nature kicks in at first in response to some of the events in Revelation, like the formation of a world government. In the case of the Tribulation, that just might be (along with a severe shaking of people's world) what God allows to propell multitudes away from the Beast of a government to Him and to the saving Gospel of Jesus Christ.




:sad

That's why it's so important for one to be careful to be in the Word and prayerfully studying to understand God's full truth, being careful to search out spiritual ideas as the Bereans did even with Paul, who had the truth and also praised the Bereans for double checking (that's a sign of a good teacher by the way). Once points of error are embraced and promulgated, those errors then beget greater errors. It's like a lie, one has to lie increasingly more to support the first lie.

Revelation is pretty clear about what happens if one takes the Mark and if one doesn't take the Mark and believes the Gospel (note, the church isn't on earth to preach the Gospel anymore, thus the angel with the Gospel preached to the whole earth, 144,000 sealed Israelites and 2 witnesses we read about in Revelation:

The Angel with the Gospel

Then I saw another angel flying in midheaven, with an eternal gospel to preach to the inhabitants of the earth, to every nation and tribe and language and people; and he said with a loud voice, “Fear God [with awe and reverence], and give Him glory [and honor and praise in worship], because the hour of His judgment has come; [with all your heart] worship Him who created the heaven and the earth, the sea and the springs of water.”


Doom for Proud Babylon

Then another angel, a second one, followed, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who has made all nations drink the wine of the passion of her immorality [corrupting them with idolatry].”


Doom for Worshipers of the Beast

Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “Whoever worships the beast and his image and receives the mark [of the beast] on his forehead or on his hand, he too will [have to] drink of the wine of the wrath of God, mixed undiluted into the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone (flaming sulfur) in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb (Christ). And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night—those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Revelation 14:6-11 AMP


Here is [encouragement for] the steadfast endurance of the saints (God’s people), those who habitually keep God’s commandments and their faith in Jesus.


Then I heard [the distinct words of] a voice from heaven, saying, “Write, ‘Blessed (happy, prosperous, to be admired) are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!’” “Yes, [blessed indeed],” says the Spirit, “so that they may rest and have relief from their labors, for their deeds do follow them.”
vs 12-13
It amazes me that even with ANGELS preaching the gospel, many ppl will STILL refuse it!! What a merciful God we serve!
 

Jojo4124

Well-Known Member
I meant that God is merciful to give ppl so many chances to accept His salvation..He doesn't delight in the death of the wicked.

Like ppl in Daniel's day, ppl will be tempted to worship the statue, to take the MOB. It'll be the only way ppl can buy or sell.

Do I trust God to provide for me if I can't buy my medicine or buy food for my children? I mean God can feed ppl bread brought by birds. Jesus said not to worry about provisions as Father knows what we need.

We don't need to fear. Ppl don't need to go to hell for temporary needs getting met. It'll take faith...do I trust God to take care of me if I can't buy or sell? His Name is Faithful and True!!!
 

Jojo4124

Well-Known Member
I agree with Jack Kelley in his below response to the question

Question: You say that according to Rev. 14:9-12 everyone who worships the beast and his image or receives the mark of his name will be lost. Others have said they can be redeemed. I’m reminded of a book by C. S. Lewis that implies that nonbelievers choose their fate and their hearts are hard and won’t change. From this I’d think that those who take the mark do so willingly and no one is forced to take the mark. They may be given a choice but no one will take them down and give them the mark. Am I assuming to much?

ANSWER: I agree with you. I think people who take the mark will do so willingly, as a sign of loyalty. Rev. 13:16 says the false prophet will cause people to take the mark, which means it will be his idea to require it. While the penalty for refusal will be severe, no one will be forced to take the mark against his or her will. Otherwise, a just God could not condemn the people who take it.

https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/fored-take-mark/
Deception will be so strong at that time. For a saved Christian to accept the MOB, they have to deny Christ. Tho saved ppl are secure IN Christ, I believe they can still end up rejecting Jesus, by choice. To give up eternity for a loaf of bread...like trading a bowl of soup for a birthright.

IN Christ we retain salvation but ppl can choose to turn from God and worship satan. Eternal consequences.

But imagine if we are alive during the time of the MOB...all the miraculous ways God will provide for His own!!

We all probably have testimonies of His wondrous provision.

When young n newly married, God provided for us miraculously many times. A check we didn't expect showed up. One time God sent us groceries right when we needed them by an anonymous giver.

I pray for those living in the "take the MOB (and worship satan) or die" days...that they'd KNOW God will provide for them!!
 

Everlasting Life

Through Faith in Jesus
Perhaps the member was talking about during the tribulation, where salvation can be lost.

Oh, I see, that makes sense. :nod

Deception will be so strong at that time. For a saved Christian to accept the MOB, they have to deny Christ. Tho saved ppl are secure IN Christ, I believe they can still end up rejecting Jesus, by choice. To give up eternity for a loaf of bread...like trading a bowl of soup for a birthright.

IN Christ we retain salvation but ppl can choose to turn from God and worship satan. Eternal consequences.

But imagine if we are alive during the time of the MOB...all the miraculous ways God will provide for His own!!

We all probably have testimonies of His wondrous provision.

When young n newly married, God provided for us miraculously many times. A check we didn't expect showed up. One time God sent us groceries right when we needed them by an anonymous giver.

I pray for those living in the "take the MOB (and worship satan) or die" days...that they'd KNOW God will provide for them!!

Sorry, Jojo4124, I misunderstood (and I'm kind of tired out today :whisper ). :)
 

Everlasting Life

Through Faith in Jesus
I appreciate you asking me that!!

Hey there, I was trying to respond earlier but something came up. :) Yes, we're all definitely still learning and I know I sure am. :nod No worries, I'm glad you are engaging here at RF, it's a great place to sharpen and grow spiritually in a loving environment. :hug I was just asking in order to understand, not to put you on the spot (and like I said am a bit tired today so missed what you were getting at :) .....yep, an imperfect Christian here :lol )

Just know that right now in our age of grace during the church age, once saved always saved (this was a great help for me when I understood this as a growing Christian; for me, knowing that my salvation is secure in Christ was a huge step towards peace and joy in my life :) ). Only God knows the hearts in regards to this.

So what this means is that saved people can very much act unsaved but God in His mercy, who knows who's His, will not leave them there but start to discipline and draw them back on His path. In fact some in the Corinthian church acted more unsaved than their society around them but they were saved and God did draw them back.

So, who knows with your cousin and I'll sure pray that God either brings her to salvation or grows her in Christ. :pray

:hug

Here's a great article about Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) you might appreciate:

https://gracethrufaith.com/topical-studies/eternal-security/osas-the-whole-story/
 

Jojo4124

Well-Known Member
Hey there, I was trying to respond earlier but something came up. :) Yes, we're all definitely still learning and I know I sure am. :nod No worries, I'm glad you are engaging here at RF, it's a great place to sharpen and grow spiritually in a loving environment. :hug I was just asking in order to understand, not to put you on the spot (and like I said am a bit tired today so missed what you were getting at :) .....yep, an imperfect Christian here :lol )

Just know that right now in our age of grace during the church age, once saved always saved (this was a great help for me when I understood this as a growing Christian; for me, knowing that my salvation is secure in Christ was a huge step towards peace and joy in my life :) ). Only God knows the hearts in regards to this.

So what this means is that saved people can very much act unsaved but God in His mercy, who knows who's His, will not leave them there but start to discipline and draw them back on His path. In fact some in the Corinthian church acted more unsaved than their society around them but they were saved and God did draw them back.

So, who knows with your cousin and I'll sure pray that God either brings her to salvation or grows her in Christ. :pray

:hug

Here's a great article about Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) you might appreciate:

https://gracethrufaith.com/topical-studies/eternal-security/osas-the-whole-story/
TY so much!! I will read this! I really appreciate how loving ppl here and I love the reminders to compare my opinions to the Word!! So REFRESHING to be around brothers n sisters who encourage eachother in love! Like how the Bride of Christ is supposed to be!!!!!! It's beautiful!!

TY for your kindness...It surprises me how much of my upbringing STILL affects my thinking (strict Catholic family...I am no. 4 of 11 kids, rosary every night, Catholic school grades 1 through highschool, etc.) If being Catholic was the way to salvation, my parents would've nailed it. I wish they would know Jesus, find rest in Him, and allow Jesus to shine through them...I know they really want to please God, but sadly have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof so to speak. If Jesus could save me, I know He sees their fervor for Him, and He can save them too! Open their eyes n knock the blinders of religion off.

TY for prayers....my cousin got angry with God because of being hurt...but He is able to heal her wounds...whereas satan won't...

Honestly, my faith, desire to learn more in the Word, and excitement for His coming have increased because of RR forums. Praise God! I can't wait til we're all in Heaven together worshipping God together....what an amazing thing that will be!!!

I promise to pray for you, and all RR members and contributors...thank you all for being lovers of the Word, and for being The Church according to the Word!!! Imagine the things to come!!!! Wahoo!

To quote Keith Green (paraphrase according to my faulty memory, lol)... look at the wonderful world God made in 6 days, imagine how Heaven will be and He's been working on it for thousands of years!!!!!

God bless each and every one of y'all with His peace and joy (our strength)!

Xxxooo!!!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top