John Calvin was a False Teacher

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Wings Like Eagles

Well-Known Member
All save Lord Jesus were in the fall of Adam, as all lost full free will as now have a sin nature , which limits us to what we can do!
No--we never lost free will. Even slaves do not lose their free will. They may pay a penalty should they choose to rebel against their human "master" including death. Our will is never removed from us. We choose to sin--otherwise, why are we held accountable for it? God says repeatedly, "...The person who sins is the one who will die." (Ezekiel 18:4 NLT) We have a Righteous Judge but He is merciful.
 

Everlasting Life

Through Faith in Jesus
I agree whole-heartedly with everything that Everlasting Life has posted, further up in the thread and much of it had to do with Calvin's flawed soteriology. I don't see any benefit in trying to rewrite what he has already posted....
Thank you Wings. I though I'd mention that I'm actually a she. I know it's hard to discern that at times with online interactions and take no offense whatsoever. :)

And I thought that simply posting those previous items would be helpful for others reading on the subject.

I think these passages reveal the generously gracious heart of God towards all people. While He warns of judgment it is to point them to His abundant grace available for all through repentance and placed, trusting faith in Jesus Christ:

“God overlooked people’s ignorance about these things in earlier times, but now he commands everyone everywhere to repent of their sins and turn to him. Acts 17:30

They said, “We can see that God has also given the Gentiles the privilege of repenting of their sins and receiving eternal life.” Acts 11:18

And when I [Jesus] am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to myself.” He said this to indicate how he was going to die. John 12:32-33

With a view to this we toil and strive, [yes and] [a]suffer reproach, because we have [fixed our] hope on the living God, Who is the Savior (Preserver, Maintainer, Deliverer) of all men, especially of those who believe (trust in, rely on, and adhere to Him). 1 Tim 4:10

This is good and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth. 1 Tim 2::3
 

greg64

Well-Known Member
What he desires and what He wills are different though

So you would have God at war with Himself on this? That's twisting scriptures pretty far to defend a concept of God's sovereignty that frankly doesn't need defending -- one of many areas where Calvinist theology goes off the track with the Bible taken as a whole. And what verses can you point to that say what He wills and desires are different? Or is that just a theological assumption?

I was looking at other verses where Jesus I think touches on mankind's ability to choose -- John 3:16-18 and John 17:20-21 came to mind, but there are many more -- mankind has the ability to choose. It's one of the results of eating the fruit in the garden. We may not be able to save ourselves, but our belief (as Abraham's) is credited to us as righteousness and penalty was borne in our place by Jesus.
 

Wings Like Eagles

Well-Known Member
None of us though merit salvation, as that is a free gidt to whomsoever God chooses to extend it towards
No one here would argue with the first part of your statement. We understand that we are sinners deserving eternal separation from God. But, praises be to God our Father that He extends mercy to whomever He chooses--which is to those who come to Him in humility and repentance. He says in 2 Chronicles 7:14 that if we humble ourselves and pray and seek His face, and leave our wicked ways, then He will hear from heaven, and forgive our sins and heal our land. God is not a trickster who says that and then, when we comply, says, "Oh--not YOU. I haven't chosen you. Too bad."
 

mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
The realization that the Lord saved me totally die to His choosing and love for me gave to me love towards and for Him, serving Him out of a gracious heart!
Those are not Calvinist ideas: they are Scripture. And, respectfully, Calvin's teachings do not add to Scripture's truth. When properly understood, Calvin's truths actually detract from Scripture.

The fact is I am saved exclusively because the Lord loved me enough to die for me and I am saved eternally because He said if I accept His offer of salvation He will secure me for eternity. I am not saved because God has chosen me above others; I am saved because He loved all of His human creations and made a way for any of us to accept Him if we wanted to.
 

Wings Like Eagles

Well-Known Member
Paul states that the natural unsaved person cannot receive the things of God, as they are spiritual discerned though, and Adam did experience both spiritual and physical death when he fell
Paul also states that those without the Holy Spirit, are not even believers (Romans 8:9). It is by the Holy Spirit that we believe--again, no one is denying that. How did the Fall have any bearing on the free will of humans?
 

paul289

Well-Known Member
If God wills everything, then God wills evil upon people. Does God will that Christians in Africa, China, India, and other places get horrifically abused and murdered? Because if so, then God is responsible for evil. It is much more consistent with God's character for him to allow us and the heavenly host to choose to do evil or good, while telling us what the consequences are. God foreknew all things, including what never happened but could have. This allowed God to influence people and his creation to come to a certain point. God is all-powerful, and in his infinite knowledge, knows how to set up creation and work through his servants to guide history and come to the present, as well as the future. This keeps God from committing evil by willing it to happen. And God doesn't want stolen slaves. After all, he told us that anyone who forces another into servitude should be put to death. If we are forced into servitude to God, he would have to die. But that's what Calvinism does. It claims that we are forced into salvation via irresistible grace. What the Bible does allow for is for the slave to sell himself to his master. It MUST be the choice of the slave. Love without choice isn't love, but chattel slavery. Stockholm Syndrome. Abuse.
 

Chris

Administrator
Staff member
His article on manuscripts has absolutely nothing to do with Calvinist beliefs. They play no part in that discussion. If we want to eliminate every Calvinist, we would have to eliminate almost every great preacher in history, including John Bunyan (Pilgrim's Progress), John Gill, Adoniram Judson, Charles Spurgeon, Andrew Murray, William Carey, Andrew Fuller, etc, etc, etc. What we stand against are the modem Calvinists (actually they're hyperCalvinists) who have taken man's responsibility entirely out of the picture and have turned the God of grace and mercy into a self-willed despot.

People can do whatever they want as far as reading these people on their own time and place, but for the sake of consistency across the forums and the rules already in place, I do not want Calvinists on the forums.

There are to many other good preachers and teachers to learn from that are not involved in this major error.

We should not have posted this guy as a "reference" or anything if we knew he is a Calvinist.

I had heard a lot about Spurgeon in the past and went to check him out. There were a lot of good sermons, etc. but then I came across his Calvinist stuff and decided to not use them. I think I had when I first started RF a section on Spurgeon's "Night and Day" brief writings for each day of the year. But when I found out about it I deleted it and did not bring it to the Wordpress site. Lots of "big names" out there in Christianity, but some of them are caught up in stuff we don't want to promote here. So, I don't want them promoted on the forums.

I totally agree with you but when I cited Erwin Lutzer's excellent defense of the Bible as the true word of God, which had NOTHING to do with Calvinist theology, the thread was terminated as being "from a Calvinist". Lutzer is no more of a Calvinist than is James R. White (and, in saying this, I am in no way denigrating White, whom I consider to be a brother in the faith--even if I do disagree with some of what he apparently believes). I personally believe that the Bible tells us to "...examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good..." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) and trust the Holy Spirit within, to guide us. (1 John 2 but especially 1 John 2:27)

I DO NOT want any Calvinists on the forums.

The most dangerous teachers are the ones who mixed truth with lies. I have no time for them and do not want them on the forums.

This is why I don't like links and references to books, DVDs, CDs, podcasts, etc. on the forums as I don't have time to go read and listen to all of them to make sure they are OK to be promoted on the forums. The people I do promote on the forums have been checked out and are approved for forum use. I don't know anything about Lutzer and have never listened to him. If he has Calvinist theology in his teachings, we do not want him on here.

A little leaven spoils the rest of the batch. I do not want us to post people on the forums that are engaged in Calvinism, Hebrew Roots, etc. etc. etc. This is listed here on the forum rules:

[06] Do not promote false teachings , false prophets, rapture date-setting, Bible prophecy sensationalism, heretical movements, paganism, ritualism, Hebrew Roots, Two-House, Ten Lost Tribes, Old Earth, Third Wave Latter Rain, Words of Faith (WOF), Words of Knowledge (WOK), extra-Biblical teachings from tele-preachers, John Wimber's Vineyard teachings, Dominion theology, Soul Sleep, Signs & Wonders, Gospel to the Stars, the Mazzaroth, Toronto Blessings, Mike Bickle's I.H.O.Prayer, 7th Day (Sabbath) keeping, liturgy of works and practices for obtaining and maintaining salvation, Eucharist, Lordship Salvation, Annihilationism, Universalism, Calvinism, Arminianism, predestination, catechisms (RCC and their offshoots), Ecumenism, baptismal regeneration, prayers for the dead, false scriptures such as the Pseudepigrapha , Apocrypha, Book of Mormon, Bible codes, Ufology, Inccubi, Succubi, OSnAS, Angelic procreation and cloning, demon seeds, or any other extra-Biblical preoccupations with demonic and extrasensory beliefs. Do not post from tele-teachers entangled in any of the above such as TBN, Perry Stone, Jesse Duplantis, Alex Jones, Todd Bentley, J. R. Church, Rick Warren, Don Piper - "90 Minutes in Heaven", FiveDoves, Coo Thomas, Sid Roth, Mark Biltz, Walid Shoebat, etc. Do not promote keeping old testament Mosaic law (but we are also not antinomianists for we believe in obedience to Jesus)

This list is not exhaustive as I can't list everything, but it is a a good start and goes to show people that we are not going to tolerate false teachings on the forums.

I understand that some of these bad teachers have some "good" teachings" and then they have their "bad" teachings. I don't want us to post their "good" teachings so that someone thinks they are good and goes to their website and gets hooked on their false teachings. So, I prefer we don't use them at all here. But what people do off RF is your business, but please do not promote them here per the forum rules you agreed to when you signed up here.

I try to run RF as sound, conservative, and fundamental as possible as that was how I was raised. I don't want to give false teachers any promotion on RF. Sometimes we find out about someone's bad teaching after they have been posted here and that is alright as it is hard to keep up with what every teacher is teaching. There's so much false teaching out there it is hard to keep up with and that you can shake a stick at. I think there are a few people that I posted and end up going back and deleting from the forums. It happens. Which is why I want people to report posts when they have concerns or suspect something is fishy.

But bottom line, no Calvinists here please.

Thank you for understanding.
 

Chris

Administrator
Staff member
I am not sure if I will re-open this as I don't want a replay of Calvinists, like we had the other day, coming to this thread and trying to defend him. We don't need to hear their unsound ramblings about how good they think he was, etc.

I knew a thread like this would lead to this eventually, but I will leave the thread up with the good posts refuting Calvinism as it is a serious error in the Church today that needs to be spoken against. I will think about this tonight, but the first order of business was to stop the promoting of Calvinism by a certain poster.
 
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