Jeffress: If Your Church Isn't Woke, IRS Wants You Broke

Ghoti Ichthus

Pray so they do not serve alone. Ephesians 6:10-20

Jeffress: If your church isn't woke, IRS wants you broke​

Steve Jordahl, Billy Davis
Mar 16, 2022
A prominent evangelical pastor is predicting the IRS will target right-leaning churches, and strip them of their tax-exempt status, and a religious liberty attorney says he would not be surprised if that happens.
"Dr. Robert Jeffress, the pastor of First Baptist Church in Dallas, delivered that warning last week when he appeared on the “Todd Starnes Shows” during the National Religious Broadcasters convention.
“I predict, with some knowledge, that the IRS is going to say when you preach certain things, or allow certain things to be said from your pulpit,” Jeffress said, “that's politics and therefore disqualifies you from tax-exempt status.”"

More
https://afn.net/legal-courts/2022/03/16/jeffress-if-your-church-isn-t-woke-irs-wants-you-broke/


:pray :pray :amen :amen
 

Tall Timbers

Imperfect but forgiven
I think it's a good idea for churches to get out from under that govmint "benefit". Individuals can give tax free gifts to anybody up to a certain amount each year. I think it is around $15K for individuals. So, there is a way to get around not having tax exempt status... it would just take some astute organizing and getting the word out on how to go about the giving. Individuals could contact "the person" who keeps track of all the budget items and that person could tell them who to make their "gift" check out to so that the money will go towards a specific need.
 

Reason & Hope

Well-Known Member
IMHO, churches should stick with the gospel, and let the media worry about politics. I dont want to hear politics from the pastor, I want to hear the Word preached.
If a pastor is teaching on 1 Corinthians 6, or Romans 1, or 1 Timothy 1:10, or any passage that teaches that homosexual practice is wrong, the IRS under a leftist President could count that as "politics". Same thing with adoption and abortion. In fact, my pastor on Sanctity of Life Sunday preached on this subject and spoke about the pregnancy resource center the church supports, and he said, "Some would say this is politics. It's not. These are things the church must talk about."
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
If a pastor is teaching on 1 Corinthians 6, or Romans 1, or 1 Timothy 1:10, or any passage that teaches that homosexual practice is wrong, the IRS under a leftist President could count that as "politics". Same thing with adoption and abortion. In fact, my pastor on Sanctity of Life Sunday preached on this subject and spoke about the pregnancy resource center the church supports, and he said, "Some would say this is politics. It's not. These are things the church must talk about."
Agree.

The OP was a prediction, not happening - yet - and maybe not until the church is gone.
 

Ghoti Ichthus

Pray so they do not serve alone. Ephesians 6:10-20
On another note, I have noticed a racial and political divide in the church. I currently don`t go to a building.:(

Many decades ago, I was temporarily at Fort Polk, Louisiana. I looked in the newspaper to find a Missouri Synod Lutheran Church (LCMS) because that's the denomination I belong to, and saw there were two and the services were at the same time, so I found out which one was closer to Post and went to that one.

When I got there, a Deacon/Elder/Pastor, don't remember which, "suggested" I'd be "more comfortable" at the other LCMS church on the other end of town (presumably because it was Black congregation and I'm White. I told him we were all God's children and I was staying. I sat in back like I normally do and because a visitor and some people did turn and "look" at me "funny," but no hostile or angry looks. It was a Communion Sunday with choice of individual or Common Cup. Although I usually prefer individual cup, Common Cup was absolutely the right thing to do that day. FWIW, the liturgy, hymns, and music style were from the traditional 1941 hymnal and the same that would have been at the "White" church.

That was the first time I had experienced a blatant separation of races in a church because I had grown up in Minnesota where any division of race or ethnicity was based on language or ethnic traditions brought with immigrants. There's actually significant differences between Scandanavian, German, Slavic, Ethopian, other various African, etc. Lutheran liturgical traditions, so people went to what was familiar and/or in the language of their forefathers (at that time, the majority of people here were Lutheran of one sort or another and many churches still had services in "old world languages, plus the various Native American languages here). People of all ethnicities and races, whose primary language was English, plus many, who were trying to learn/improve English worshipped together. To do otherwise would have been weird or stupid.

Later, I did experience segregated churches in some places where I was stationed/visited, and it was horrible in St. Louis, but it always seemed to be the denominations that had lots of choices of congregations in an area, or places that were very segregated in housing, etc that were divided along racial lines. Denominations that only had one or a few congregations in an area tended to be a lot more integrated, as were those in places that were more integrated in other ways.

FWIW, not all "Black" churches are liberal or "woke" and not all "White" churches are conservative/traditional. Most apostasy still seems to fall along denominational lines.


:soapbox :rant


:imsorry if I offended anyone . . .
 

rubyx1

rubyx1
Many decades ago, I was temporarily at Fort Polk, Louisiana. I looked in the newspaper to find a Missouri Synod Lutheran Church (LCMS) because that's the denomination I belong to, and saw there were two and the services were at the same time, so I found out which one was closer to Post and went to that one.

When I got there, a Deacon/Elder/Pastor, don't remember which, "suggested" I'd be "more comfortable" at the other LCMS church on the other end of town (presumably because it was Black congregation and I'm White. I told him we were all God's children and I was staying. I sat in back like I normally do and because a visitor and some people did turn and "look" at me "funny," but no hostile or angry looks. It was a Communion Sunday with choice of individual or Common Cup. Although I usually prefer individual cup, Common Cup was absolutely the right thing to do that day. FWIW, the liturgy, hymns, and music style were from the traditional 1941 hymnal and the same that would have been at the "White" church.

That was the first time I had experienced a blatant separation of races in a church because I had grown up in Minnesota where any division of race or ethnicity was based on language or ethnic traditions brought with immigrants. There's actually significant differences between Scandanavian, German, Slavic, Ethopian, other various African, etc. Lutheran liturgical traditions, so people went to what was familiar and/or in the language of their forefathers (at that time, the majority of people here were Lutheran of one sort or another and many churches still had services in "old world languages, plus the various Native American languages here). People of all ethnicities and races, whose primary language was English, plus many, who were trying to learn/improve English worshipped together. To do otherwise would have been weird or stupid.

Later, I did experience segregated churches in some places where I was stationed/visited, and it was horrible in St. Louis, but it always seemed to be the denominations that had lots of choices of congregations in an area, or places that were very segregated in housing, etc that were divided along racial lines. Denominations that only had one or a few congregations in an area tended to be a lot more integrated, as were those in places that were more integrated in other ways.

FWIW, not all "Black" churches are liberal or "woke" and not all "White" churches are conservative/traditional. Most apostasy still seems to fall along denominational lines.


:soapbox :rant


:imsorry if I offended anyone . . .
Wow sorry about that experience I hope the rest of the service was comfortable. I know that there may be a predominately ethnic group gathered in a building but I seriously hate the term "white church" and "black church" because to me that seems to imply something else and it is very separatist if that makes sense. I am going to quote the last sentence of your post.....FWIW, not all "Black churches are liberal or "woke" Dear heavens thank you for acknowledging and saying this many times people do generalize and paint with a broad brush *even in the church*.....and not all "white" churches are conservative/traditional also true too. You are correct in the fact that it has nothing to do with ethnicity more like a carnal mind/apostate/denominational thing as you mentioned. Although even as believers we won`t always agree on everything I wonder how the world looks at that and sees we are even divided by such things, it is not a good look for sure. I don`t know just something I have noticed.:hug
 

Ghoti Ichthus

Pray so they do not serve alone. Ephesians 6:10-20
Wow sorry about that experience I hope the rest of the service was comfortable. I know that there may be a predominately ethnic group gathered in a building but I seriously hate the term "white church" and "black church" because to me that seems to imply something else and it is very separatist if that makes sense. I am going to quote the last sentence of your post.....FWIW, not all "Black churches are liberal or "woke" Dear heavens thank you for acknowledging and saying this many times people do generalize and paint with a broad brush *even in the church*.....and not all "white" churches are conservative/traditional also true too. You are correct in the fact that it has nothing to do with ethnicity more like a carnal mind/apostate/denominational thing as you mentioned. Although even as believers we won`t always agree on everything I wonder how the world looks at that and sees we are even divided by such things, it is not a good look for sure. I don`t know just something I have noticed.:hug

The service was a very nice traditional Lutheran liturgical service with a great organ player, the congregation raising the roof singing (like most traditional Lutheran congregations singing the traditional oldies but goodies even in parts), OT, NT, and Gospel readings, good sermon based on at least one of the Bible readings, Law and Gospel presented, everyone knowing and saying/singing the liturgy, Nicene Creed, etc. together, very comforting/uplifting/strengthening Holy Communion, etc. Just because of what happened, that service really stuck with me. I think I may still have the bulletin somewhere.

One thing about attending a church of one's own denomination, especially one in which the congregations "all" worship using an old-fashioned, traditional service, is one will know what to expect and won't have the fumbles with the hymnal, bulletin, etc., even when visiting a church for the first time. Unfortunately, in more recent times, even churches in conservative, traditional denominations, have adopted differing worship and music styles, so these days there is often no guarantee that the type and format of service will be what one expects and is familiar with. I know a lot of people here would rather a less formal, non-liturgical service, etc., or don't mind not having an established order of worship, but that's kind of like some people preferring mint ice cream and thers preferring strawberry ice cream :smile

I put the terms "Black" church and "White" church in quotation marks because the churches are God's churches, and aren't supposed to be segregated. It's disgusting, stupid, sinful, etc. that any churches are segregated on the basis of race. As you pointed out, it even besmirches the reputation of the church and harms the witness. Unfortunately, the churches and descriptive terms reflect the realities of the sinful world we live in because the church is made up of sinful people and will reflect the attitudes, customs, and cultural norms of the people in the congregation. Since people usually attend church in/near their own community, those attitudes, customs, and cultural norms will also generally reflect those of the community. I had a culture shock at the church in Louisiana because the cultural norms of Louisiana were very different than the cultural norms of Minnesota. Looking back, I hope that by staying and worshipping in that church that I left a little salt and light.

Thankfully, we have reconcilliation in Jesus Christ and His perfect "cultural norms" of Heaven to look forward to :smile


:pray :pray :amen :amen
 

Jojo4124

Well-Known Member
IMHO, anyone benefitting from anything the government is involved in is in cahoots with the devil.
Agree. I dont see in the Bible where the church is to tango with the world at all. Any govt benefit comes with strings that the govt can pull. The RCC began with mixing with the govt. Pagan holidays and practices were used by the RCC and called Christian, etc.

Years ago I read that there are Clergy Response teams...cant remember the actial title...but some pastors agreed with the govt to use a verse in Romans that says to submit to the govt...these pastors received money or something from the govt and promised the govt that they'd use the Romans verse to get their congregations to do what the govt mandates. This happened years ago. Who knows why...but it cant be good. Maybe if martial law was ever declared, these pastors would have to tell their congregants to obey the govt. Misuse of the Scripture in instances like that. Be careful, Church!!
 

Tall Timbers

Imperfect but forgiven
If the govmint started taxing donations to churches, I wonder if individuals could give annual gifts up to the allowed amount and have that be non-reportable. For example, at some point I'll probably start distributing a little cash to my kids and right now I think I can give each of them up to 15K a year and it's both non-taxsable and that amount isn't required to be reported. If you can't do that for an organization that the gift could be made to specific people who get a pay check from the church and the church could have their pay system set up that the salary is lessened by the amount of gifts made to that individual from members of the church. I don't think those tax free gifts are limited to family members, but I'm no expert on them...
 

MapleLeaf

Well-Known Member
Christian organizations in Canada are already starting to feel the pinch up here. Getting access to "summer job programs" they had to sign agreements on liberal values such as supporting abortion. There was still enough pushback that I think some of that let up but when my husband was guest preaching at our sister church one of their elders was talking about it from the front at one point. It's something we need to prepare for. I think avoiding all politics talk is a form of cowardice because the reality is that the church is going to have to face it at some point. Saying "our nation needs to turn back to God" is an inherently political statement. Serving Christ as King is political. It's why Statists hate Christians. We won't share Christ's godhead with them. I don't need a pastor rah-rahing over-the-top patriotism or saying which economic policy is best but when there are rules that directly effect us then yeah, some of that needs to be addressed.

All that to say, churches having financial contingency plans in case we lose tax-exempt status could be wise. That would include plans on how to provide for our pastors' families too. While my husband was still pastor we could declare his income for tax deductions as we were technically living on the charity of others. It allowed us to live on a smaller-than-average income. If that deduction changes will the congregations step up and make sure the pastor's family has food, shelter and clothes?
 

jab777

Well-Known Member
I don't claim anything I give to the church or Christian ministries on my taxes. Nunoftheirbeezwax :lol
I was giving this thought the other day. I’ve claimed charitable gifts on my taxes like forever but I think starting with the tax filing for this year I’m not going to. It’s not worth having to get into it with the IRS Gestapo and giving without a tax deduction is a more honest and truly sharing out of gratitude for what God has done for me.
 
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