James MacDonald

Lynn

Well-Known Member
Hey, when I went back and re-read what I wrote here, I sure sound stern. I didn’t mean to, or even feel that way, Sorry for not communicating well! I love all of you!
No worries. We know you too well to think that you were being too stern. You were merely presenting your perspective. But, thank you for your sensitivity and your sweet expression of love for all of us. Goes both ways, Accepted. :hug
 

mikhen7

Freed By Christ to Serve Christ
If you really want to know what has transpired with James McDonald read up at www.julieroys.com. I know Julie and it has been a painful experience reading about all this. My prayer is that he will repent and run to Jesus as fast as he can. He will probably need to sell his [correction] 1.8 million dollar home to pay for legal fees. Sad situation. I too used to listen to him once in awhile. I had quoted from an earlier article two months back which over valued his home. (https://world.wng.org/2018/12/hard_times_at_harvest)
 
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Lynn

Well-Known Member
Yes until we know guilty or innocent. If he is found guilty, I believe he should no longer be involved in ministering to others in any way. Soliciting murder is so serious.
Yes, it is serious, because it's a crime, punishable by a prison sentence. But, until the case is tried in a court of law, which it probably will be, we need to ask the Lord to let the truth prevail and for a fair & just outcome for all concerned.
 

Everlasting Life

Through Faith in Jesus
If you really want to know what has transpired with James McDonald read up at www.julieroys.com. I know Julie and it has been a painful experience reading about all this. My prayer is that he will repent and run to Jesus as fast as he can. He will probably need to sell his 5 million dollar home to pay for legal fees. Sad situation. I too used to listen to him once in awhile.
Wow. Sounds like a lack of accountability has lent to some real issues of abuse. I agree, a really sad situation :sad for him and the poor congregation. :pray ing that there can be repentance and healing. In looking at the letter from former elders sent to this church I notice there's actually 8 elders who put this letter together. I think they did a good job laying out what not to be as a spiritual leader (and how to be a good spiritual leader), it's well worth the read to learn from. They also talked about how they realised their silence was going to hurt the church more if they didn't speak up. Unfortunately, it sounds like private conversations have had no effect in terms of repentance thus the need for this public letter:

https://world.wng.org/sites/default/files/assets/Letter_to_HBC_Elders_2013.pdf

2 Timothy 3:1-5 was quoted in the article and I wanted to share this because there are too many 'religious' groups that engage in this and if one can recognize that these patterns are being utilized then one can wisely go somewhere else (if there's no repentance) to save themselves a world of trouble. Notice the actions listed here and what Paul says to do in response. So, if there's someone dealing with this, here is a scriptural passage to stand on when being spiritually guilt tripped to accept abuse:

You should know this, Timothy, that in the last days there will be very difficult times. For people will love only themselves and their money. They will be boastful and proud, scoffing at God, disobedient to their parents, and ungrateful. They will consider nothing sacred. They will be unloving and unforgiving; they will slander others and have no self-control. They will be cruel and hate what is good. They will betray their friends, be reckless, be puffed up with pride, and love pleasure rather than God. They will act religious, but they will reject the power that could make them godly. Stay away from people like that! 2 Tim 1-5
 

TimeWarpWife

Well-Known Member
I'd never heard of this man before, but from reading a few articles about what's happening, I can't help but wonder if becoming a "mega" church and having the temptations that go along with it ~ fame, access to huge amounts of money, etc. ~ may have been too much for him. He's innocent until proven guilty, and if guilty, I hope he finds his way to repentance and forgiveness.
 

Everlasting Life

Through Faith in Jesus
I'm guessing the bigger the church is the more pastor, and elders, must be careful together to stay close to God ...and have good accountability set up. It's difficult enough to navigate ones own life how much more a church.

And, additionally our pastors and leaders need our prayers, support and care (even more so today). They deal with a lot challenging situations (not offering excuses, just an observation).

I mean Moses had a real handful with Israel, so did Paul with the Corinthians. Paul asked for prayer quite a bit.....

On a positive note, there's good pastors out there....cherish them, they are on the front lines working hard for Christ.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
While people ARE innocent till proven guilty and that principle undergirds our legal system, from a church discipline side of things, this man has rejected private discipline, and his former elders have issued a public rebuke, not on the solicitation for murder charges, but for other serious problems which make him ineligible for pastorship.

There are actually 2 separate considerations:
1: The charge that he solicited someone else to commit murder for him. AND THAT charge, is NOT proven in a court of law, at least YET. So in THAT part HE IS INNOCENT till PROVEN GUILTY. We cannot prejudge this part of his problems. That is before the courts.

2: The charges that his elders bring before the church. In THAT case, he has rejected private discipline and the chance to repent and in THAT case, it is right that his former elders be HEARD by ALL the body of Christ, and a GENERAL WARNING be given to prevent him from harming the flock still further and to encourage him to accept Biblical Discipline as a pastor. In THIS CASE there are 2 goals, the first being to PROTECT THE FLOCK and the SECOND being to bring him to a sense of repentance so that he can be restored (BUT NOT NOT NOT as a pastor!)
 

Lynn

Well-Known Member
While people ARE innocent till proven guilty and that principle undergirds our legal system, from a church discipline side of things, this man has rejected private discipline, and his former elders have issued a public rebuke, not on the solicitation for murder charges, but for other serious problems which make him ineligible for pastorship.

There are actually 2 separate considerations:
1: The charge that he solicited someone else to commit murder for him. AND THAT charge, is NOT proven in a court of law, at least YET. So in THAT part HE IS INNOCENT till PROVEN GUILTY. We cannot prejudge this part of his problems. That is before the courts.

2: The charges that his elders bring before the church. In THAT case, he has rejected private discipline and the chance to repent and in THAT case, it is right that his former elders be HEARD by ALL the body of Christ, and a GENERAL WARNING be given to prevent him from harming the flock still further and to encourage him to accept Biblical Discipline as a pastor. In THIS CASE there are 2 goals, the first being to PROTECT THE FLOCK and the SECOND being to bring him to a sense of repentance so that he can be restored (BUT NOT NOT NOT as a pastor!)
Yes! You stated this so very well! There are indeed two separate decision making bodies to judge this man: the church body/elders of his congregation. If they chose to dismiss him as their senior pastor, then it's safe to assume they made the right decision. They had eyes and ears all over this man's behavior for many years. I trust their judgment as they disciplined him in a biblically correct manner.
Now, as Athenasius mentioned, the legal charge of solicitation to murder has not yet been tried in a legal setting. Just because J. McDonald was tried in his church & found wanting, it doesn't necessarily mean that he's guilty of this heinous crime. If it's later proven by the preponderance of evidence that he indeed did this, then he will have to pay for the crime just like anyone else would. Never should this man be allowed to pastor a church again, no matter how the legal case turns out. Jmho
 
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