Israelis set for new Jewish temple on Al-Aqsa site

[daygo]

i find this a quite interesting point ..... as if the Rabbis consider the AC the messiah (as Israel is expecting a man(or 2 men) as messiah so not God's Son) if what I am thinking is a possibilty then the AC before he is revealed as AC may indeed be welcomed in Israel as the messiah???

Possible.

 

[paul289]

i find this a quite interesting point ..... as if the Rabbis consider the AC the messiah (as Israel is expecting a man(or 2 men) as messiah so not God's Son) if what I am thinking is a possibilty then the AC before he is revealed as AC may indeed be welcomed in Israel as the messiah???

I think it may be the other way around, at least for the general public. Rabbis seem to be testing him in secret to ensure he "is" the messiah, and then I think he will be publicly announced when he brings the peace treaty and calls for the rebuilding of the Temple.

 

[Len]

I think it may be the other way around, at least for the general public. Rabbis seem to be testing him in secret to ensure he "is" the messiah, and then I think he will be publicly announced when he brings the peace treaty and calls for the rebuilding of the Temple.

Hi Paul289, this is pretty much what I was thinking, that the rabbis consider him the messiah to lead them but eventually he later desecrate that very temple he helped bring about and then they realise he is the antimessiah, but what would I know LOL!

 

[athenasius]

There's nothing in the bible that even implies the go ahead for the temple comes from the AC.. it's what all eschatology teachers teach, but my belief has always been, that's just their opinion and my question has always been "where does it say or even imply that?"

You are right, but there actually is some cause for the theologians to make the inference that the temple permission to build is somehow part of the covenant that Daniel 9:27 and Isaiah 28: 18 speak of. I tend to think there may well be some good cause, then I will argue against myself and explain why you might be right.

In Daniel's case it's because the verse with the covenant immediately goes into a mention of the temple, tying them together at least in the sentence. That juxtaposition can mean the two are linked. However it doesn't always.

Jesus read a passage - Isaiah 61:1-2 in the Synagogue of His home town, and stopped mid sentence in v 2. Because the first part pertained to his first coming, the second part which He didn't read was to do with His second coming to the Jews at the end of the Tribulation.

Same sentence. 2000+ years apart.

the other reason theologians argue that it may be included as part of the deal is because it provides one of the 2 most compelling reasons that Israel would ever sign a covenant with anyone. I list both.

1-- benefits to Israel regarding PEACE-- and that is a feature of the AC as the rider on the white horse in the first seal that Jesus opens. They have lived in fear of their lives (it's actually a fulfillment of a prophecy Moses made) for most of their generations. They crave peace and have signed onto many peace deals that have backfired badly just because of that desire. Doubtless that future agreement with death and Hades as Isaiah 18 called it.

2-- the right to build their Temple again. Just in this thread alone, we can see the longing, the desire for that. It's also a fulfillment of prophecy when it's built. Jesus warned of the time when the future Third Temple would be desecrated by the AC in Matthew 24. For that to happen it has to be built again.

Has there ever been a tenth red heifer? Jesus is the Messiah, they didn't accept him as such, which means he never prepared the tenth red heifer. According to the temple experts, the Messiah has yet to come, there have been two temples without the preparation of the tenth red heifer. This tells me, there does not have to be a tenth red heifer nor does one need to be prepared before the third temple goes up.

The red heifers are required for the Temple services. Only a small amount of the ashes are needed for the water of cleansing to make the High Priest ritually pure, and other requirements, so the ashes of one heifer can be used for centuries. The Jewish histories (not all the history is in the Bible, just the stuff God wanted in there) which are not in the Bible, but are as faithful as one can get from ancient historical sources record that there were 9 up till the time of 70AD when the last Temple was destroyed. They are in the non biblical Mishna which is sort of like a long set of commentaries and almost like the way the Popes add on to Scripture by their rulings which they say are equivalent to God's word in the Bible. But it contains useful historical notes.

These Jewish sages from Maimonides on to today talk about the 10th being the one to herald the Messiah but the idea of Messiah in Jewish modern thought is VERY different from Jesus time, and from how Christians see it. Maimonides was the one to say it would be the 10th and last and usher in the Messiah who would burn that heifer or use the ashes.

Modern Jews even the religious and ultra religious ones don't see Messiah as God incarnate.

Even though the Dead Sea Scrolls dating to 130 years before Jesus was born, record that the Essenes did.

Modern Jews expect a leader who will get them out of their current problems and usher in another golden age like under King David. That was what the Pharisees of Jesus's time on earth were expecting. Someone powerful to throw off Rome. Not someone who was a suffering servant who would die to save them. That was something even Peter, close as he was to Christ wasn't expecting when he rebuked Jesus warning of the upcoming crucifixion and Jesus told him Get Thee Behind Me Satan!

They expected miracles, but also an uprising to return to self rule, and they would then make this version of Messiah king to rule over them.

Echoes of that happened recently with the religious and conservative Jewish groups who started referring to Trump as the modern Cyrus during the peace talks in the last part of Trump's presidency.

But back to the Red Heifer. The reason it's so important is that all the temple instruments, the Temple itself and the priests have to be ritually cleansed using water with a little bit of the ashes in it. Otherwise they feel they are creating an abomination. So when they do get a red heifer, they will burn it and the ashes would be more than enough for a couple of centuries worth of cleansing rituals. Including purifying the new Temple. They have added a lot of traditional extra biblical rituals and traditions on top of what the Bible called for.

Jesus spoke to that in Matthew 23 when He talked about the burden the Pharisees placed on the people. They were demanding that ordinary Jews follow all the rules for Levites, and the Temple Priests. They were creating laws where none existed.

It's been 2000 more years approximately since He said that, and they've added 2000 more years worth of laws, rules, traditions and even prophecy such as the one by Maimonides who lived from 1138 AD to 1204 AD saying that the 10 Heifer would be the one the Messiah would prepare. He was adding to the Mishna in a commentary on the Mishna which is essentially a group of extra biblical teachings such as the Pharisees had in Jesus time.

 

[athenasius]

Oh and to add on to the Messiah the Jews expect today-- they split it into 2 Messiahs because it never made sense to them to have the conquering ruling king, the "Son of David" AND the suffering servant "Son of Joseph" in the same person. They knew about each aspect but thought those were 2 different messiahs.

They've been sure that Jesus was neither one, so they remain looking for 2 different ones at different times.

They do expect miracles, but they don't expect that he would be God Incarnate in Human flesh with a fully Divine nature, being both God (before Abraham was I AM) and the Son of God.

Nor are they expecting a virgin birth. That prophecy in Isaiah they have never understood, thinking it referred to something in Isaiah's lifetime (a near and far fulfillment isn't how they see it at all). This business of Jewish virgins hoping to be the Messiah's mother isn't something modern Jews have ever understood even though well meaning Christians repeat that myth.

So they are kind of confused about it all. Like Paul points out out in Romans 11. They are blind and hardened to the gospel, yet God saves a remnant of them thru the church age. Until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. Romans 11: 25-26
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.

This is why they won't worship the AC and why when he sits in the Temple demanding to be worshipped as God, they will have the scales fall from their eyes in shock and horror. They aren't expecting someone calling himself God -- Jesus did--they rejected Him, and the AC will claim to be God, just by going into the Temple and sitting down, and demanding worship and that is the one they made a bargain with.

That's going to be a big shock. Of course they will have the 2 Witnesses, and the 144.000 preaching to them so quite a few will wake up on that day.

He will just be another Cyrus that they compared Trump to. In their eyes. Until he shows his true colours.

Like Cyrus and Trump he won't have to be Jewish to be one of a line of human messiahs used by God to help them. They just don't want or expect blasphemy which they would recognize as someone claiming to be God.

They've forgotten that they once expected THE Messiaheg those 2 elderly Jews who served in the Temple, Anna and Simeon in Luke 2 who recognized Him as Messiah, THE Salvation!

Very few in Israel were still waiting for the Lord's FIRST Coming! A few Essenes -- the ones that John the Baptist would become part of, Anna and Simeon, and of course Mary and Joseph knew. Some despised shepherds the night He was born knew. But the regular religious Pharisees and the Sadducees of that time were definitely NOT waiting for The Son of God to appear in human flesh to redeem us as our kinsman redeemer.

Luke 2: NKJV

Simeon Sees God’s Salvation​

25 And behold, there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon, and this man was just and devout, waiting for the Consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him. 26 And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord’s Christ. 27 So he came by the Spirit into the temple. And when the parents brought in the Child Jesus, to do for Him according to the custom of the law, 28 he took Him up in his arms and blessed God and said:


29 “Lord, now You are letting Your servant depart in peace,
According to Your word;
30 For my eyes have seen Your salvation
31 Which You have prepared before the face of all peoples,
32 A light to bring revelation to the Gentiles,
And the glory of Your people Israel.”

33 And Joseph and His mother marveled at those things which were spoken of Him. 34 Then Simeon blessed them, and said to Mary His mother, “Behold, this Child is destined for the fall and rising of many in Israel, and for a sign which will be spoken against 35 (yes, a sword will pierce through your own soul also), that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.”

Anna Bears Witness to the Redeemer​

36 Now there was one, Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was of a great age, and had lived with a husband seven years from her virginity; 37 and this woman was a widow of about eighty-four years, who did not depart from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day. 38 And coming in that instant she gave thanks to the Lord, and spoke of Him to all those who looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

2 elderly witnesses in the Temple for Jesus birth.

I hope we get a full screen TV viewing in heaven of the .....

.....NEXT 2 Elderly Witnesses in Jerusalem by the Temple when Moses and Elijah show up.

 

[GHoe]

Jesus did say that in the end times there will be many who will come in his name and even some claiming to be the Messiah. I believe there was a posting on this forum about a rabbi in Israel who was being proclaimed as the Messiah. His name is Rav Shlomo Yehuda. Google him and you will find he is doing miracles and all kinds of things.

Mathew 24:24 is what you're referring to but to be complete we should acknowledge v 26-27 as well,

"So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.