Is this the year for the big one?

Endangered

Well-Known Member
Scientific studies indicate that every 5 to 6 years the earth's rotation slows a little. The cause is somewhat speculative but appears to be related to the molten core. When the rotation slows, even a little, the molten core shifts around and can cause unstable areas of the mantle to shift around. The result of this shift is earthquakes and increased possibility of volcanic eruptions due to new paths to the surface created.
The Cal coast has been unusually active lately with quakes of less than 4.0 magnitude reported in Nov and Dec.
And there have been a bunch of small quakes in So America and in the Orient.
Matthew describes the convergence in chapter 24 and earthquakes are part of the convergence. The convergence includes famines and wars and rumors of wars. Jesus also says these are the beginning of birth pains. Birth pains begin gently but increase in frequency and intensity over time.
Is it possible the current slowing of the earth's rotation was prophecied 2000 years ago?
If we do have an increase in the number of and intensity of earthquakes in 2018, could this be the beginning of the convergence?
I don't know the definite answer to these questions. But I do know
the Bible is 100% accurate in prophecy and an awful lot of what I read and hear on the news is in sync with End Times Prophecies.
We are living in very interesting and very disturbing times.
Keep your eyes and ears open cuz sumpin big may be bout to go down.








N
 

Endangered

Well-Known Member
A 7.6 magnitude earthquake struck in the Caribbean Sea midway between the Cayman Islands and Honduras. Reports are that a tsunami was triggered headed toward Puerto Rico. A magnitude 7.6 is a big one but humans were lucky the center of the quake was not on land. This quake was felt as far away as Mexico. We may not be so lucky the next time.
 

Keith Johnson

Well-Known Member
Scientific studies indicate that every 5 to 6 years the earth's rotation slows a little. The cause is somewhat speculative but appears to be related to the molten core. When the rotation slows, even a little, the molten core shifts around and can cause unstable areas of the mantle to shift around. The result of this shift is earthquakes and increased possibility of volcanic eruptions due to new paths to the surface created.
The Cal coast has been unusually active lately with quakes of less than 4.0 magnitude reported in Nov and Dec.
And there have been a bunch of small quakes in So America and in the Orient.
Matthew describes the convergence in chapter 24 and earthquakes are part of the convergence. The convergence includes famines and wars and rumors of wars. Jesus also says these are the beginning of birth pains. Birth pains begin gently but increase in frequency and intensity over time.
Is it possible the current slowing of the earth's rotation was prophecied 2000 years ago?
If we do have an increase in the number of and intensity of earthquakes in 2018, could this be the beginning of the convergence?
I don't know the definite answer to these questions. But I do know
the Bible is 100% accurate in prophecy and an awful lot of what I read and hear on the news is in sync with End Times Prophecies.
We are living in very interesting and very disturbing times.
Keep your eyes and ears open cuz sumpin big may be bout to go down.








N
Someone may have asked this before, but doesn't Rev 6:12-14 just describe a much stronger version of what you said?
Rev 6:12-14
12 I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. 13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. 14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place.
 

Ghoti Ichthus

Pray so they do not serve alone. Ephesians 6:10-20
The 6th Seal earthquake comes after the Rapture, as do all the Seals. There may be 4 or 5 phenomena described here in Revelation 6: earthquake, volcanic eruption with ash obscuring the sun and moon, nuclear detonation(s), meteors or nuclear missiles falling through the atmosphere, and massive techtonic plate(s)/hydroplate(s) shift (depends on which theory you prefer; both support/are supported by the Bible's account of creation).

If the Rapture occurred during/after the Seals, there would be no imminence, since clearly 1/4 of the population hasn't been by sword, famine and plague, and wild beasts (4th Seal, Revelation 6:7-8). Many other reasons why the Rapture is next... time/don't want to derail/hijack the thread...

So... Rapture, which also removes the Holy Ghost since He indwells believers, then the revealing of AntiChrist (1st Seal) at the beginning of the 7 year Tribulation, during which the Seals, Trumpets, and Vials occur.

Clarence Larkin diagrams: http://clarencelarkincharts.com/Clarence_Larkin_7.html
http://clearvisionbiblestudies.com/gosey/save33.html

BTW, Israel's 70th Birthday is this year... 1 generation's length since 1948 :) :israel

:pray :pray :bible :bible :amen :amen :rapture :rapture
 
Last edited by a moderator:

mattfivefour

Administrator
Staff member
So... Rapture, which also removes the Holy Ghost since He indwells believers, then the revealing of AntiChrist (1st Seal) at the beginning of the 7 year Tribulation, during which the Seals, Trumpets, and Vials occur.
To clarify, the Holy Spirit is not removed per se. He remains, but no longer indwells believers. Were He not to be here on earth, nobody could be saved, since it is He who draws and convicts and converts.
 

borrowedtime

Well-Known Member
To clarify, the Holy Spirit is not removed per se. He remains, but no longer indwells believers. Were He not to be here on earth, nobody could be saved, since it is He who draws and convicts and converts.
Bear with me here for one second Adrian as I ask this question.

In John 15 Jesus talks about Father sending Him and that He must go so the Comforter (Holy Spirit) can come.

To me it seems the implication could be made is that the Holy Spirit wasn’t “operational” in the Old Testament. Is this not so?
 

mattfivefour

Administrator
Staff member
To me it seems the implication could be made is that the Holy Spirit wasn’t “operational” in the Old Testament. Is this not so?
No it isn't, brother, even though there are some who believe that to be true. While there are very few direct statements in the Old Testament that shed light on the Holy Spirit's activities, the New Testament tells us a lot. And it reveals that chief among the things the Holy Spirit does is to sanctify the believer. Knowing that, if we go back to some OT passages, we can see that the Holy Spirit was indeed active and working in believers' lives back then.

We can see that He comes into and upon various OT people. For example, He came upon Saul (1 Samuel 10:10) and Othniel (Judges 3:10). With some people He did not merely come upon them, but actually came into them: Bezaleel being one (Exodus 30:1-5) and Joshua being another (Numbers 27:18). So the Holy Spirit came into or upon select individuals for certain purposes. But He did not indwell all believers. However, that is not to say that He was not active among believers in general.

Take Deuteronomy 30:6 as an example. Moses tells Israel that if they should ever turn from God, He would permit them to be taken captive. But if so, if they then call to mind God's law and repent and return to Him, He would have compassion on them and deliver them. Moses goes on to say, "And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live." So Almighty God Himself said He would sanctify them. But who of the Trinity would have done this—Father, Son or Holy Spirit? Surely it was the Holy Spirit. So He was clearly active among mankind on earth in the OT, just as He will be during the Great Tribulation.

May I suggest that Christ's words from John 16 to which you refer in your last post —Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you (John 16:7)— do not speak of the coming of the Holy Spirit to earth, or even into the disciples. Remember that in John 20:22, during the Last Supper and before His arrest, crucifixion, resurrection and ascension to Heavemn, Jesus gives the Holy Spirit who enters into His disciples! A lot of people miss that. The verse reads: "And when He (Jesus) had said this, he breathed in them (the 11 disciples, Judas having departed to do his evil work) and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Spirit." So to what was Christ referring when He said, "If I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."?

He was referring to the coming of the Holy Spirit in power ... not merely indwelling the believer but infilling him or her, equipping them with power for service. He would thus be to believers as Christ was to the disciples: a teacher, a comforter, an equipper for service. The New Testament Church was a Spirit-filled Church, not merely a Spirit-indwelt Church. The so-called Baptism of the Holy Spirit equipped each member of the Church to serve in power.

I know it is orthodox Baptist doctrine to suggest that you receive the Holy Spirit at salvation. And that is absolutely correct ... as far as it goes. The disciples were saved and indwelt, as we have just seen, a good month and a half before Pentecost. But did that enable them to stand fearlessly before the religious and secular leaders and forces? No. Not at all. Read the NT accounts from the Last Supper through to the end of the first chapter of Acts. When did the POWER to stand and boldly proclaim the Gospel arrive? At the moment they were FILLED with the Holy Spirit. There were TWO acts of grace evident there: the initial indwelling and the subsequent infilling. And it was the infilling that equipped them with the power that shook the world. Sadly, too many people today believe in the first work of grace and not the second. They leave that latter for the weird Pentecostal types, whom they view with a wary eye. But many of the greatest preachers of history believed in that separate work of grace that equipped for service. D.L. Moody was one! He said his ministry never gained any power until he received this "Baptism of the Holy Spirit". (You can read how this happened at https://www.wholesomewords.org/biography/biomoody6.html . Go directly to point 7 in the article.)

In any case, I didn't intend to get off on that point when I began my answer to you. But perhaps God wanted it included, because this Last Days Church needs that same power in the midst of a hard and pagan land just as much as did the First Days Church in the midst of Israel and the Roman Empire. At least, we need it if we are indeed going to fulfill what God has called us to do.

Anyway, brother, that aside, I hope my explanation in the early part of this reply answers your excellent question sufficiently.
 

Len

Well-Known Member
There were TWO acts of grace evident there: the initial indwelling and the subsequent infilling. And it was the infilling that equipped them with the power that shook the world. Sadly, too many people today believe in the first work of grace and not the second.
I chased that second filling when I first thought I had become a christian but it never happened no matter what was said/prayed/or laid on me, but then again I am a stiff necked individual ..... so I live a lifeless powerless christian in thought only existence ..... or I was never a born again christian and did not even get the first indwelling but ..... I cannot fathom how the Holy spirit would give a truely born again person only half of the christian experience if that was the case.
 

borrowedtime

Well-Known Member
No it isn't, brother, even though there are some who believe that to be true. While there are very few direct statements in the Old Testament that shed light on the Holy Spirit's activities, the New Testament tells us a lot. And it reveals that chief among the things the Holy Spirit does is to sanctify the believer. Knowing that, if we go back to some OT passages, we can see that the Holy Spirit was indeed active and working in believers' lives back then.

We can see that He comes into and upon various OT people. For example, He came upon Saul (1 Samuel 10:10) and Othniel (Judges 3:10). With some people He did not merely come upon them, but actually came into them: Bezaleel being one (Exodus 30:1-5) and Joshua being another (Numbers 27:18). So the Holy Spirit came into or upon select individuals for certain purposes. But He did not indwell all believers. However, that is not to say that He was not active among believers in general.

Take Deuteronomy 30:6 as an example. Moses tells Israel that if they should ever turn from God, He would permit them to be taken captive. But if so, if they then call to mind God's law and repent and return to Him, He would have compassion on them and deliver them. Moses goes on to say, "And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live." So Almighty God Himself said He would sanctify them. But who of the Trinity would have done this—Father, Son or Holy Spirit? Surely it was the Holy Spirit. So He was clearly active among mankind on earth in the OT, just as He will be during the Great Tribulation.

May I suggest that Christ's words from John 16 to which you refer in your last post —Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you (John 16:7)— do not speak of the coming of the Holy Spirit to earth, or even into the disciples. Remember that in John 20:22, during the Last Supper and before His arrest, crucifixion, resurrection and ascension to Heavemn, Jesus gives the Holy Spirit who enters into His disciples! A lot of people miss that. The verse reads: "And when He (Jesus) had said this, he breathed in them (the 11 disciples, Judas having departed to do his evil work) and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Spirit." So to what was Christ referring when He said, "If I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."?

He was referring to the coming of the Holy Spirit in power ... not merely indwelling the believer but infilling him or her, equipping them with power for service. He would thus be to believers as Christ was to the disciples: a teacher, a comforter, an equipper for service. The New Testament Church was a Spirit-filled Church, not merely a Spirit-indwelt Church. The so-called Baptism of the Holy Spirit equipped each member of the Church to serve in power.

I know it is orthodox Baptist doctrine to suggest that you receive the Holy Spirit at salvation. And that is absolutely correct ... as far as it goes. The disciples were saved and indwelt, as we have just seen, a good month and a half before Pentecost. But did that enable them to stand fearlessly before the religious and secular leaders and forces? No. Not at all. Read the NT accounts from the Last Supper through to the end of the first chapter of Acts. When did the POWER to stand and boldly proclaim the Gospel arrive? At the moment they were FILLED with the Holy Spirit. There were TWO acts of grace evident there: the initial indwelling and the subsequent infilling. And it was the infilling that equipped them with the power that shook the world. Sadly, too many people today believe in the first work of grace and not the second. They leave that latter for the weird Pentecostal types, whom they view with a wary eye. But many of the greatest preachers of history believed in that separate work of grace that equipped for service. D.L. Moody was one! He said his ministry never gained any power until he received this "Baptism of the Holy Spirit". (You can read how this happened at https://www.wholesomewords.org/biography/biomoody6.html . Go directly to point 7 in the article.)

In any case, I didn't intend to get off on that point when I began my answer to you. But perhaps God wanted it included, because this Last Days Church needs that same power in the midst of a hard and pagan land just as much as did the First Days Church in the midst of Israel and the Roman Empire. At least, we need it if we are indeed going to fulfill what God has called us to do.

Anyway, brother, that aside, I hope my explanation in the early part of this reply answers your excellent question sufficiently.
Adrian,

I like to ask you questions cause you are thorough. No apology from you is necessary.

I know in Genesis there are a couple of verses that refers to God in “us” form (Godhead) but this particular question I haven’t been able to answer head on.

Thank you for doing that in spades!
 

Jan51

Well-Known Member
Remember that in John 20:22, during the Last Supper and before His arrest, crucifixion, resurrection and ascension to Heavemn, Jesus gives the Holy Spirit who enters into His disciples! A lot of people miss that. The verse reads: "And when He (Jesus) had said this, he breathed in them (the 11 disciples, Judas having departed to do his evil work) and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Spirit." So to what was Christ referring when He said, "If I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."?

He was referring to the coming of the Holy Spirit in power ... not merely indwelling the believer but infilling him or her, equipping them with power for service. He would thus be to believers as Christ was to the disciples: a teacher, a comforter, an equipper for service. The New Testament Church was a Spirit-filled Church, not merely a Spirit-indwelt Church. The so-called Baptism of the Holy Spirit equipped each member of the Church to serve in power.

I know it is orthodox Baptist doctrine to suggest that you receive the Holy Spirit at salvation. And that is absolutely correct ... as far as it goes. The disciples were saved and indwelt, as we have just seen, a good month and a half before Pentecost. But did that enable them to stand fearlessly before the religious and secular leaders and forces? No. Not at all. Read the NT accounts from the Last Supper through to the end of the first chapter of Acts. When did the POWER to stand and boldly proclaim the Gospel arrive? At the moment they were FILLED with the Holy Spirit. There were TWO acts of grace evident there: the initial indwelling and the subsequent infilling. And it was the infilling that equipped them with the power that shook the world. Sadly, too many people today believe in the first work of grace and not the second. They leave that latter for the weird Pentecostal types, whom they view with a wary eye. But many of the greatest preachers of history believed in that separate work of grace that equipped for service. D.L. Moody was one! He said his ministry never gained any power until he received this "Baptism of the Holy Spirit". (You can read how this happened at https://www.wholesomewords.org/biography/biomoody6.html . Go directly to point 7 in the article.)
I would respectfully disagree. Most believe that the Holy Spirit was given to the church in Acts 2, not before, and this was the birth of the church. No Christian could have the indwelling Holy Spirit before that time. So Acts 2 could not be describing a second experience. In whatever way the disciples "received" the Spirit in John, it was different than the outpouring of the Spirit in Acts 2.

I Cor. 12:13 states that all believers have been baptized with the Holy Spirit, not just some. The double use of the word "all" makes this crystal clear.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

Nowhere are we told to seek the baptism of the Spirit. Doctrine is to be based solely on the Bible, not on anyone's experience. All experiences need to be evaluated in the light of the Bible, not the other way around. But if we would appeal to experiences, why is it that many believers seek, even plead for, the baptism of the Spirit, or the second blessing, or whatever term, and do not experience it for whatever length of time, or in many cases, never? Why would God withhold this? I am 66 and have been a believer since childhood; I sought this experience for a number of years in early adulthood, when my Christian friends who spoke in tongues tried to help me "get it," and I never "got it." But the Bible assures me that I am a true believer and that I was baptized by the indwelling, sealing, empowering Holy Spirit when I believed.

Act_1:8 but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."
We receive His power when the Holy Spirit comes upon us; Jesus was obviously referring to what was then described in Acts 2, not another experience required after that.

It's also true that this "experience" is easily counterfeited and can be produced by the pressure put upon those who have not yet "got it." Another reason not to base our doctrine upon any person's experience, no matter how godly or influential. Sola Scriptura.
 

mattfivefour

Administrator
Staff member
I chased that second filling when I first thought I had become a christian but it never happened no matter what was said/prayed/or laid on me, but then again I am a stiff necked individual ..... so I live a lifeless powerless christian in thought only existence ..... or I was never a born again christian and did not even get the first indwelling but ..... I cannot fathom how the Holy spirit would give a truely born again person only half of the christian experience if that was the case.
Oh, Len. Your post cut me with the pain you must feel! Don't ever feel that because you did not receive some experience that you are not important in God's family ... or perhaps not a part of that family at all. That is a lie of Satan.

Brother, never chase an experience or a gift. Chase the Giver. As we follow Him, seeking to be ever closer to Him, seeking to share His love and His hope with others, we will find the power given to us as we need it.

My life has not been one of obedience to Christ. Even after I first responded to the gospel at the age of 29. It took me 32 years from that time to be brought to a point where God could break me of myself to the point where He could begin to use me. And it is still a process under way. And, knowing me, it will be a process unfinished on the day He take me home ... whether by Uppertaker or undertaker.

I used to struggle to do what He wanted me to do or to change so He could accept me. But the truth is He accepts ALL of us ... each and every one of us ...just as we are. Filth, foibles, foolishness and failures. He is in the business of taking such and making them jewels in His Crown. He takes Jacobs and makes them Israels. Always has, always will. Until this Age of Grace is over, there is not a single sinner whom He is not capable of making a saint. As Billy Graham put it, "God's gift of redemption says, 'I will buy you back with My blood because I love you. I will free you from the chains of sin. I will settle the conflict within and give peace to your soul. But you must come to Me with a repentant heart. You must be willing to be redeemed.'" So, brother, if you believe in Christ and that He paid the entire price for you and are willing to follow Him, then you are saved. The fact that you may not have received some experience or other is meaningless in terms of that transaction. Nothing else matters; nothing else counts. You are saved. End of story.

As to power for service, etc. Just keep drawing closer to Him in prayer, in reading His Word, in worship. Every day pray that He give you an opportunity to help someone ... whether it be just to brighten their day with even a smile when they are feeling down or with any other of a thousand possible acts of kindness and compassion that we can show others. And be prepared that God WILL unexpectedly give you opportunities to share the Gospel of His salvation. Witnessing is not a theological act, it is simply sharing God's love with another person and the evidence and the means by which that love is available to them: Jesus Christ. Don't look for signs or experiences. Simply take God at His word and seek Him alone.

I pray this helps.
 

mattfivefour

Administrator
Staff member
I would respectfully disagree. Most believe that the Holy Spirit was given to the church in Acts 2, not before, and this was the birth of the church. No Christian could have the indwelling Holy Spirit before that time. So Acts 2 could not be describing a second experience. In whatever way the disciples "received" the Spirit in John, it was different than the outpouring of the Spirit in Acts 2.

I Cor. 12:13 states that all believers have been baptized with the Holy Spirit, not just some. The double use of the word "all" makes this crystal clear.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

Nowhere are we told to seek the baptism of the Spirit. Doctrine is to be based solely on the Bible, not on anyone's experience. All experiences need to be evaluated in the light of the Bible, not the other way around. But if we would appeal to experiences, why is it that many believers seek, even plead for, the baptism of the Spirit, or the second blessing, or whatever term, and do not experience it for whatever length of time, or in many cases, never? Why would God withhold this? I am 66 and have been a believer since childhood; I sought this experience for a number of years in early adulthood, when my Christian friends who spoke in tongues tried to help me "get it," and I never "got it." But the Bible assures me that I am a true believer and that I was baptized by the indwelling, sealing, empowering Holy Spirit when I believed.

Act_1:8 but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."
We receive His power when the Holy Spirit comes upon us; Jesus was obviously referring to what was then described in Acts 2, not another experience required after that.

It's also true that this "experience" is easily counterfeited and can be produced by the pressure put upon those who have not yet "got it." Another reason not to base our doctrine upon any person's experience, no matter how godly or influential. Sola Scriptura.
I understand. Experiences ARE far too easily counterfeited. And chasing them is a fool's game. Which is why I can agree with you in much of what you have written and which is why I am not part of any Pentecostal denomination. We should never chase an experience ... as I just wrote to Len above. I wish I had seen your post before I began writing to him. I could have used part of it in my own answer! :nod

So you and I are in perfect sync on that aspect.

But I think there is another point worth discussing here— the issue of when the Holy Spirit was available to mankind in the NT. Acts 1:8 does not say you will receive "salvation" when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, but "power". Further, the word "upon" and "into" are two different things. Surely they already had the Holy Spirit within them, or how else do you interpret John 20:22? And surely, according to the Biblical account, the Holy Spirit fell "upon" them at Pentecost, He did not enter "into" them. I'm interested in how you see these specific points. I am also interested in how you would respond to D.L. Moody and explain what happened to him ... which was definitely in accordance with scripture.

I agree Sola Scriptura. I live by that. But we need to be sure that our Scriptura IS Scriptura ... and not our own belief based on what we have been taught about Scripture rather than what Scripture itself actually DOES say.

I'm looking forward to more of this discussion.
 

Jan51

Well-Known Member
I understand. Experiences ARE far too easily counterfeited. And chasing them is a fool's game. Which is why I can agree with you in much of what you have written and which is why I am not part of any Pentecostal denomination. We should never chase an experience ... as I just wrote to Len above. I wish I had seen your post before I began writing to him. I could have used part of it in my own answer! :nod

So you and I are in perfect sync on that aspect.

But I think there is another point worth discussing here— the issue of when the Holy Spirit was available to mankind in the NT. Acts 1:8 does not say you will receive "salvation" when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, but "power". Further, the word "upon" and "into" are two different things. Surely they already had the Holy Spirit within them, or how else do you interpret John 20:22? And surely, according to the Biblical account, the Holy Spirit fell "upon" them at Pentecost, He did not enter "into" them. I'm interested in how you see these specific points. I am also interested in how you would respond to D.L. Moody and explain what happened to him ... which was definitely in accordance with scripture.

I agree Sola Scriptura. I live by that. But we need to be sure that our Scriptura IS Scriptura ... and not our own belief based on what we have been taught about Scripture rather than what Scripture itself actually DOES say.

I'm looking forward to more of this discussion.
Joh 14:16 "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
Joh 14:17 that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.
Joh 16:7 "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.
Jesus said the Holy Spirit who was coming would be "in" them, and is currently "with" them. The Holy Spirit would not come to them--be "in" them"--until after Jesus goes away. So when Jesus told His disciples in John 20:22 to "receive the Holy Spirit," the Spirit was not yet "in" them because Jesus was still there.

Act 1:4 Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, "Which," He said, "you heard of from Me;
Act 1:5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."
Act 1:6 So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, "Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?"
Act 1:7 He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority;
Act 1:8 but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."
Jesus is about to leave, and now He reminds them of the promise of the Holy Spirit. He uses two terminologies: "baptized with" the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit "coming upon" them. So in the light of Acts 2, both terminologies must mean the same thing, and must mean the same as what Jesus promised earlier: the Holy Spirit would be "in" them.

Act 2:1 When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place.
Act 2:2 And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
They are all filled with the Holy Spirit.

We have another reference to this experience in Acts 10:44-47.
Act 10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.
Act 10:45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
Act 10:46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered,
Act 10:47 "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"
So here we have "fell upon" and "poured out on."

Compare Peter's account of this event in Acts 11:15-18.
Act 11:15 "And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'
Act 11:17 "Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?"
Act 11:18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."
Several terms are used synonymously here: "fell upon," "baptized with," and "repentance," i.e. initial salvation. I believe the Bible uses many synonymous terms to make it very clear, so we can't miss what is happening.

As for D.L. Moody's experience, as I said earlier, doctrine is not to be drawn from anyone's experiences, only Scripture. Experiences are subjective and can have many sources or explanations.
 
Top