Is Salvation a Process or Event?

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Steve53

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Jesus came to Save(Not Saved) us from our sin, because sin has power. Thus we were saved by trusting in Him and are being saved by continuing(Sanctification) in Him, since sin is still present in our bodies. People I've talked to seem to think if you've believed you can't miss the rapture. Where does it say that? Are ALL the tribulation saints Jews, that's not scriptural either. So will some believers who have continued in sin be left behind like the Five virgins? So, sin has the Power through the flesh to separate us from God. Scripture/Comments? As an aside, how wonderful to have a platform to discuss the word with so many Biblically literate brethren, I for one am thankful for y'all (We just moved to the South,LOL)
Salvation is a one time event in this dispensation. The parable of the 10 virgins relates to Daniel's 70th week and Christ's return.
 

Sowen

Well-Known Member
I agree salvation is a one time, non-stoppable, irreversible, non-repeatable event. But... I don't think that salvation is based upon belief, I believe it's based on God's grace, it's made possible by the blood of the Messiah, and that it's conveyed through belief (faith). This would mean that once a person has a positive conviction, a heart reliance (wrought in their heart by the Spirit of God), that they will be saved through Jesus the Christ, they are judged as righteous by God, based on the perfect righteousness of Jesus, and the demands of God's Law are declared as satisfied.
That sounds a lot like Irresistible Grace. Is this what you mean?
 

DaveS

Well-Known Member
Irresistible grace is a term open to interpretation... Isn't it? Biblically speaking...

Question: How can you have a spiritual salvation that is not a process without irresistible grace?
 
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Steve53

Well-Known Member
Irresistible grace is a term open to interpretation... Isn't it? Biblically speaking...
No, it isn't unless one is a Calvinist. Biblically speaking, Matt. 7:7-8, John 3:16, Romans 10:9, Romans 10:13 and 2nd Peter 3:9 all refute the "I" in TULIP.

Question: How can you have a spiritual salvation that is not a process without irresistible grace?
Again, salvation itself is not a process. Salvation is an instantaneous event based on belief.
 

DaveS

Well-Known Member
No, it isn't unless one is a Calvinist. Biblically speaking, Matt. 7:7-8, John 3:16, Romans 10:9, Romans 10:13 and 2nd Peter 3:9 all refute the "I" in TULIP.


Again, salvation itself is not a process. Salvation is an instantaneous event based on belief.
I'll catch ya next week.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
Where can I find the connection of Daniel's 70th week to the ten virgins? Scriptures?
Jack uses scripture, and there have been a few threads on the ten virgins on this forum

Question: Re: your article “The Parable of the Ten Virgins.” If oil represents the Holy Spirit then how did the foolish virgins have it in the beginning and run out. How is it possible to run out of the Holy Spirit, and then go get more. Did they run out of the Holy Spirit and lose their salvation?

Answer: As you know, I believe that the parable of the 10 virgins speaks about a time on Earth just after the 2nd Coming, and that these 10 represent Tribulation survivors.
During the Church Age the Holy Spirit is sealed within believers as a guarantee of our inheritance (Ephes. 1:13-14). But only the church is promised this and the Church will be long gone by this time.
No such guarantee is mentioned for Tribulation believers. In fact Rev. 16:15specifically warns them to stay awake and maintain their righteousness, symbolized by keeping their clothes with them. (Clothing is often used to represent righteousness, as in Isaiah 61:10).
Rev. 16:15 implies that Tribulation believers are responsible for remaining steadfast in their faith to avoid losing their salvation. Matt. 25:8 agrees, telling us that all 10 virgins had oil in their lamps at the beginning, but the five foolish ones didn’t have enough to carry them through.
All 10 fell asleep and their lamps were in danger of going out. Only 5 had the ability to replenish their lamps with oil they had brought, and refused to lend any to the others. (You can’t “lend” the Holy Spirit to someone.)
So yes, the parable would seem to indicate that Tribulation believers are not promised eternal security and the five who fell asleep spiritually did not have time to restore their salvation when they finally woke up and found that the Lord had returned. It was too late.

https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/the-parable-of-the-10-virgins/
 

lenraff

Well-Known Member
Jack uses scripture, and there have been a few threads on the ten virgins on this forum

Question: Re: your article “The Parable of the Ten Virgins.” If oil represents the Holy Spirit then how did the foolish virgins have it in the beginning and run out. How is it possible to run out of the Holy Spirit, and then go get more. Did they run out of the Holy Spirit and lose their salvation?

Answer: As you know, I believe that the parable of the 10 virgins speaks about a time on Earth just after the 2nd Coming, and that these 10 represent Tribulation survivors.
During the Church Age the Holy Spirit is sealed within believers as a guarantee of our inheritance (Ephes. 1:13-14). But only the church is promised this and the Church will be long gone by this time.
No such guarantee is mentioned for Tribulation believers. In fact Rev. 16:15specifically warns them to stay awake and maintain their righteousness, symbolized by keeping their clothes with them. (Clothing is often used to represent righteousness, as in Isaiah 61:10).
Rev. 16:15 implies that Tribulation believers are responsible for remaining steadfast in their faith to avoid losing their salvation. Matt. 25:8 agrees, telling us that all 10 virgins had oil in their lamps at the beginning, but the five foolish ones didn’t have enough to carry them through.
All 10 fell asleep and their lamps were in danger of going out. Only 5 had the ability to replenish their lamps with oil they had brought, and refused to lend any to the others. (You can’t “lend” the Holy Spirit to someone.)
So yes, the parable would seem to indicate that Tribulation believers are not promised eternal security and the five who fell asleep spiritually did not have time to restore their salvation when they finally woke up and found that the Lord had returned. It was too late.

https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/the-parable-of-the-10-virgins/
Thanks Andy. However I completely disagree with Jack. Jesus is our Bridegroom, and He is not returning after the tribulation to take anyone into the Kingdom, but rather to establish His kingdom for a thousand years. The restrainer will leave at the Rapture to allow the rise of the Antichrist. The virgins represent true and apostate believers. This is perfectly clear and is baffling to me how anyone can be this confused. This answer is unscriptural on so many points, I don't feel it would be profitable to comment further. I know Jack is well loved here, but we're all human. But thanks again for the reply.
 

Steve53

Well-Known Member
Where can I find the connection of Daniel's 70th week to the ten virgins? Scriptures?
Lenraff, try reading Jack's longer article here:
https://gracethrufaith.com/topical-studies/parables/the-parable-of-the-ten-virgins/

In replying to Andy, you said: "...He (Jesus) is not returning after the tribulation to take anyone into the Kingdom, but rather to establish His kingdom for a thousand years." The Tribulation survivors that aren't condemned in the sheep and goats judgment will be the folks that repopulate the planet during the millennium. The Church's home will be New Jerusalem (not planet earth).

Hope this helps.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
Lenraff, try reading Jack's longer article here:
https://gracethrufaith.com/topical-studies/parables/the-parable-of-the-ten-virgins/

In replying to Andy, you said: "...He (Jesus) is not returning after the tribulation to take anyone into the Kingdom, but rather to establish His kingdom for a thousand years." The Tribulation survivors that aren't condemned in the sheep and goats judgment will be the folks that repopulate the planet during the millennium. The Church's home will be New Jerusalem (not planet earth).

Hope this helps.
:thumbup:thumbup
 
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lenraff

Well-Known Member
Lenraff, try reading Jack's longer article here:
https://gracethrufaith.com/topical-studies/parables/the-parable-of-the-ten-virgins/

In replying to Andy, you said: "...He (Jesus) is not returning after the tribulation to take anyone into the Kingdom, but rather to establish His kingdom for a thousand years." The Tribulation survivors that aren't condemned in the sheep and goats judgment will be the folks that repopulate the planet during the millennium. The Church's home will be New Jerusalem (not planet earth).

Hope this helps.
Steve that presents another problem. When Jesus returns we come with him. Zechariah. 14. That’s earth for a thousand years and then the white throne judgement. After that hell death and the grave are cast into the lake of fire. The scriptures say we will reign and rule with him for a thousand years on earth. If that’s coming from Jack, I am surprised That is not sound eschatology Or ecclesiology, take your pick. I’m not able to check the link now but will later tomorrow. Thanks for the link Steve. I’ll try to post a few links tomorrow to a few of the Berean Call articles and Missler’s excellent work. You might want to check out Sir Robert Anderson’s The Coming Prince.
 
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Steve53

Well-Known Member
Steve that presents another problem. When Jesus returns we come with him. Zechariah. 14. That’s earth for a thousand years and then the white throne judgement. After that hell death and the grave are cast into the lake of fire. The scriptures say we will reign and rule with him for a thousand years on earth. If that’s coming from Jack, I am surprised That is not sound eschatology Or ecclesiology, take your pick. I’m not able to check the link now but will later tomorrow. Thanks for the link Steve. I’ll try to post a few links tomorrow to a few of the Berean Call articles and Missler’s excellent work. You might want to check out Sir Robert Anderson’s The Coming Prince.
There's no problem if all the available information from Scripture is taken properly in context. There's no reason we won't be able to commute between New Jerusalem and earth.

May I suggest you not be so quick to discount Jack's teachings? He had a wonderful way of explaining how various precepts build upon one another to create a complete picture.
https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/more-on-who-lives-where/
https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/confused-about-the-new-jerusalem/
https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/heaven-and-the-new-jerusalem/
https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/abraham-and-the-new-jerusalem/
https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/questions-about-the-new-jerusalem/
https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/isaiah-60-and-the-new-jerusalem/

And there's much more, but by now I hope the confusion has been cleared up.
 

Mikedexion

Well-Known Member
Thanks Andy. However I completely disagree with Jack. Jesus is our Bridegroom, and He is not returning after the tribulation to take anyone into the Kingdom, but rather to establish His kingdom for a thousand years. The restrainer will leave at the Rapture to allow the rise of the Antichrist. The virgins represent true and apostate believers. This is perfectly clear and is baffling to me how anyone can be this confused. This answer is unscriptural on so many points, I don't feel it would be profitable to comment further. I know Jack is well loved here, but we're all human. But thanks again for the reply.
I agree, all the Ten virgins fell asleep while there was a delay in waiting for the bridegroom. There will be no sleepy time during the Great Tribulation in where if God did not shorten the days no flesh would be saved. The midnight cry is the same as the Lord descending with a shout with the voice of Michael the ArchAngel. If you look at the ancient Jewish wedding tradition (which the church is following) it fits perfectly as the best man calls the bride and her virgins to come out to meet the bridegroom. As you said this represents what the professing church will look like at the rapture. Five were truly born again and five were regular Sunday attendees at their local church building.
 

Steve53

Well-Known Member
I agree, all the Ten virgins fell asleep while there was a delay in waiting for the bridegroom. There will be no sleepy time during the Great Tribulation in where if God did not shorten the days no flesh would be saved. The midnight cry is the same as the Lord descending with a shout with the voice of Michael the ArchAngel. If you look at the ancient Jewish wedding tradition (which the church is following) it fits perfectly as the best man calls the bride and her virgins to come out to meet the bridegroom. As you said this represents what the professing church will look like at the rapture. Five were truly born again and five were regular Sunday attendees at their local church building.
The context and timing of the parable as described in Matthew 24:29 establishes the timeline as the 2nd coming, not the rapture.
The rapture has already happened, the bride was snatched away previously. What the 5 foolish virgins are going to miss is the wedding banquet (the Millennium).
Try giving Jack's articles a read and see how he breaks it all down.
 
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