Is Salvation a Process or Event?

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Goodboy

Well-Known Member
Is Salvation a Process or Event?
(Earning Our Salvation)

There is a doctrine going around called OSAS (Once Save Always Saved) which I agree with. This states that salvation is a one time event based on the sincere believe in and acceptance of Jesus Christ as your savior. Once someone puts their trust in Christ I would then say they are saved, just as I claim to be saved. Hopefully all this makes sense to you whether or not you believe it to be the case.

Well let’s now talk about someone who does not believe in OSAS. That would mean whether they state it or not, that they believe that salvation is not a one time event. So if it is not a one time event, then it must be a process. If it is a process, how do you know when the process is complete and you are saved? The only way I can see that you would know for sure, is if you are just about to die and are still strongly following after Christ.

Also, if indeed salvation is a process, why do people say that they are saved? The word “saved” is past tense, meaning already completed. If it is a process, while they can claim to be a Christian they can not claim to be saved. Why do we go out and share with others telling them all they must do is to accept Jesus Christ as their savior to be saved if it is a process? If it is a process we should then be truthful and tell them this is how you begin the process.

Back to what I believe. Salvation for the New Testament believer is “Good News”. Why is it good news? Because God has a gift for you and all you need to do is accept it. If you understand what this gift is you will rejoice! Well if someone gave you a lottery ticket with a chance to win the lottery, would you rejoice? Now if someone gave you the winning lottery ticket, then you would rejoice. My point here is that if the “Good News” is only a chance for salvation (process) why would I rejoice? I may not ever get saved.

I’m pretty sure I have not changed the mind of someone who does not believe in eternal security, but I would challenge you to stop using the past tense term of “saved” especially when sharing with others. Tell them the whole story if that’s what you believe. Don’t tell them all you have to do is this and then later tell them that there is more that they must do.

How easy it is to slip into saying that there is something other than acceptance that we must do, even if it is just to keep believing to earn our salvation.

Goodboy
 

DaveS

Well-Known Member
Good afternoon,

I read your post. I just had a few observations to add that may spur some discussion; if you were looking for it...

There is a doctrine going around called OSAS (Once Save Always Saved) which I agree with. This states that salvation is a one time event based on the sincere believe in and acceptance of Jesus Christ as your savior.
I agree salvation is a one time, non-stoppable, irreversible, non-repeatable event. But... I don't think that salvation is based upon belief, I believe it's based on God's grace, it's made possible by the blood of the Messiah, and that it's conveyed through belief (faith). This would mean that once a person has a positive conviction, a heart reliance (wrought in their heart by the Spirit of God), that they will be saved through Jesus the Christ, they are judged as righteous by God, based on the perfect righteousness of Jesus, and the demands of God's Law are declared as satisfied.

I’m pretty sure I have not changed the mind of someone who does not believe in eternal security, but I would challenge you to stop using the past tense term of “saved” especially when sharing with others.
Since we're on the "Rapture" forum... we would be remiss in pointing out that salvation does have an eschatological nuance. The very term of rapture points towards the resurrection of the church saints both alive and dead. In the resurrection, the bodily salvation of man will match the spiritual salvation of man that happened at the moment described above (since our sin nature is retained after regeneration). One major factor that has happened over the centuries, is the physical coming Kingdom has been rejected and all of God's promises have been reduced to spiritual (A-Millennialism, Post-Millenialism, Preterism... ect. ect.). In rejecting the physical nature of the Kingdom, bad doctrine (such as salvation is repeatable, or is a process) has crept in and corrupted the faith.

What I'm saying is, it's natural to have a future hope of salvation, so long as it is kept in the proper context. It's important to note this since it helps explain certain "hard" passages that are taken out of context.

I'll gladly supply scriptural support for the observations above.

God bless,
Dave
 

Goodboy

Well-Known Member
Good afternoon,

I read your post. I just had a few observations to add that may spur some discussion; if you were looking for it...



I agree salvation is a one time, non-stoppable, irreversible, non-repeatable event. But... I don't think that salvation is based upon belief, I believe it's based on God's grace, it's made possible by the blood of the Messiah, and that it's conveyed through belief (faith). This would mean that once a person has a positive conviction, a heart reliance (wrought in their heart by the Spirit of God), that they will be saved through Jesus the Christ, they are judged as righteous by God, based on the perfect righteousness of Jesus, and the demands of God's Law are declared as satisfied.



Since we're on the "Rapture" forum... we would be remiss in pointing out that salvation does have an eschatological nuance. The very term of rapture points towards the resurrection of the church saints both alive and dead. In the resurrection, the bodily salvation of man will match the spiritual salvation of man that happened at the moment described above (since our sin nature is retained after regeneration). One major factor that has happened over the centuries, is the physical coming Kingdom has been rejected and all of God's promises have been reduced to spiritual (A-Millennialism, Post-Millenialism, Preterism... ect. ect.). In rejecting the physical nature of the Kingdom, bad doctrine (such as salvation is repeatable, or is a process) has crept in and corrupted the faith.

What I'm saying is, it's natural to have a future hope of salvation, so long as it is kept in the proper context. It's important to note this since it helps explain certain "hard" passages that are taken out of context.

I'll gladly supply scriptural support for the observations above.

God bless,
Dave
You have stated a lot and to be honest I don't understand all of what you said, so I cannot say if I agree or not. There is one thing that you said though that I disagree with, which is "I don't think that salvation is based upon belief". There are many, many scriptures that plainly state that salvation is based on belief. What bible are you reading???
 

DaveS

Well-Known Member
You have stated a lot and to be honest I don't understand all of what you said, so I cannot say if I agree or not. There is one thing that you said though that I disagree with, which is "I don't think that salvation is based upon belief". There are many, many scriptures that plainly state that salvation is based on belief. What bible are you reading???
There are many scriptures that state that salvation is given through belief, but the bible does not base salvation upon belief... The basis of salvation is God's grace (Eph. 2:8-9; Rom. 3:24; Gen. 15:6).


I'm okay with you disagreeing... but believe me (no pun intended...) there's a fantastic amount of information to glean from the scriptures regarding the subject.
 

Goodboy

Well-Known Member
There are many scriptures that state that salvation is given through belief, but the bible does not base salvation upon belief... The basis of salvation is God's grace (Eph. 2:8-9; Rom. 3:24; Gen. 15:6).


I'm okay with you disagreeing... but believe me (no pun intended...) there's a fantastic amount of information to glean from the scriptures regarding the subject.
Grace is what God does, belief or faith is what we do. :)
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
There are many scriptures that state that salvation is given through belief, but the bible does not base salvation upon belief... The basis of salvation is God's grace (Eph. 2:8-9; Rom. 3:24; Gen. 15:6).


I'm okay with you disagreeing... but believe me (no pun intended...) there's a fantastic amount of information to glean from the scriptures regarding the subject.
How do you explain the below, which are but a few which mention belief.



John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.


John 5:24"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."


John 6:28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”

29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”



John 6:35-40 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.



John 6:47-51 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”



John 7:37-38 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.”


John 8:12 Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.”
John 8:23-24 And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”



John 8:31-32 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
 

DaveS

Well-Known Member
Grace is what God does, belief or faith is what we do.
I don't disagree... That's not the point though, the point was the basis of salvation. (Goodboy said: "This states that salvation is a one time event based on the sincere believe in and acceptance of Jesus Christ as your savior.").

Basis is equal to the foundation or justification behind something. The basis is the underlying support for (in this case) salvation.

With this in mind, I'll apply what I said in my original post in comparison to your assertion (Goodboy: "Grace is what God does, belief or faith is what we do.") This is how mine would read, "Grace is what God has, shedding His blood and dying on the cross is what God does, and faith is what we do".

You bumped the thread, so I assumed you wanted to discuss it.

How do you explain the below, which are but a few which mention belief.
To be frank... I've already explained it in my opening post. This is what I said " I don't think that salvation is based upon belief, I believe it's based on God's grace, it's made possible by the blood of the Messiah, and that it's conveyed through belief (faith). ".

Faith, is the human requirement for salvation. That's how I explain the passages that mention belief.

The subject I was commenting on from the topic of the post is the "basis" for salvation. Which equates to a question, "Is the basis for salvation belief?"; as the original post seemingly asserts. I'm pretty sure that the underlying topic here is the will of man, and how our autonomy relates to God and salvation. To me, if or as the discussion progresses, and if belief continues to be considered the basis for salvation, it'll be interesting to see how man's will lives up to it's autonomous nature through the original assertion of "Salvation is based on belief", and how salvation by this assertion plays out as an event (or process). There are really two views when it comes to the security of the saint (at least two that I know of), and that's preservation of the saint, and (OSAS).

Edit to add: I consider myself a determinist that can fully support the role of man's will in salvation.

Kind regards,
Dave
 
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Goodboy

Well-Known Member
I don't disagree... That's not the point though, the point was the basis of salvation. (Goodboy said: "This states that salvation is a one time event based on the sincere believe in and acceptance of Jesus Christ as your savior.").

Basis is equal to the foundation or justification behind something. The basis is the underlying support for (in this case) salvation.

With this in mind, I'll apply what I said in my original post in comparison to your assertion (Goodboy: "Grace is what God does, belief or faith is what we do.") This is how mine would read, "Grace is what God has, shedding His blood and dying on the cross is what God does, and faith is what we do".

You bumped the thread, so I assumed you wanted to discuss it.



To be frank... I've already explained it in my opening post. This is what I said " I don't think that salvation is based upon belief, I believe it's based on God's grace, it's made possible by the blood of the Messiah, and that it's conveyed through belief (faith). ".

Faith, is the human requirement for salvation. That's how I explain the passages that mention belief.

The subject I was commenting on from the topic of the post is the "basis" for salvation. Which equates to a question, "Is the basis for salvation belief?"; as the original post seemingly asserts. I'm pretty sure that the underlying topic here is the will of man, and how our autonomy relates to God and salvation. To me, if or as the discussion progresses, and if belief continues to be considered the basis for salvation, it'll be interesting to see how man's will lives up to it's autonomous nature through the original assertion of "Salvation is based on belief", and how salvation by this assertion plays out as an event (or process). There are really two views when it comes to the security of the saint (at least two that I know of), and that's preservation of the saint, and (OSAS).

Edit to add: I consider myself a determinist that can fully support the role of man's will in salvation.

Kind regards,
Dave
What ever it is you are trying to say is confusing to me. I am not saying that you are confusing, just that the way you present it is confusing to me. That said, I will refrain from a response as for all I know we may agree. I will let someone else who understands what you are saying respond to you. God bless! :)
 

DaveS

Well-Known Member
What ever it is you are trying to say is confusing to me. I am not saying that you are confusing, just that the way you present it is confusing to me. That said, I will refrain from a response as for all I know we may agree. I will let someone else who understands what you are saying respond to you. God bless!
I've been there... Hang in there, sound theology is a process (pun intended). :)

God bless your studies,
Dave
 

lenraff

Well-Known Member
Post salvation, it's sanctification that is a process.
Jesus came to Save(Not Saved) us from our sin, because sin has power. Thus we were saved by trusting in Him and are being saved by continuing(Sanctification) in Him, since sin is still present in our bodies. People I've talked to seem to think if you've believed you can't miss the rapture. Where does it say that? Are ALL the tribulation saints Jews, that's not scriptural either. So will some believers who have continued in sin be left behind like the Five virgins? So, sin has the Power through the flesh to separate us from God. Scripture/Comments? As an aside, how wonderful to have a platform to discuss the word with so many Biblically literate brethren, I for one am thankful for y'all (We just moved to the South,LOL)
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
Jesus came to Save(Not Saved) us from our sin, because sin has power. Thus we were saved by trusting in Him and are being saved by continuing(Sanctification) in Him, since sin is still present in our bodies. People I've talked to seem to think if you've believed you can't miss the rapture. Where does it say that? Are ALL the tribulation saints Jews, that's not scriptural either. So will some believers who have continued in sin be left behind like the Five virgins? So, sin has the Power through the flesh to separate us from God. Scripture/Comments? As an aside, how wonderful to have a platform to discuss the word with so many Biblically literate brethren, I for one am thankful for y'all (We just moved to the South,LOL)
Where does it say in scripture that all who are saved through belief in Jesus, will not all be raptured?

No, not all tribulation saints are jews. Many of the unsaved who enter the tribulation will become believers, and become tribulation Saints.

Yes, sin has the power to separate us from God, and thank God Jesus paid the price for those of us who chose to believe in Him. Christians can and do still sin after becoming saved, and our own behavior has no bearing on our salvation - OSAS.
 

lenraff

Well-Known Member
Where does it say in scripture that all who are saved through belief in Jesus, will not all be raptured?

No, not all tribulation saints are jews. Many of the unsaved who enter the tribulation will become believers, and become tribulation Saints.

Yes, sin has the power to separate us from God, and thank God Jesus paid the price for those of us who chose to believe in Him. Christians can and do still sin after becoming saved, and our own behavior has no bearing on our salvation -
Where does it say that people who continue in willful sin will be raptured. And by the above comments “grace is what God does, believe is what we do “ DO =work. Don’t fit with osas. So in some sense our behavior does affect our position in God. And in Revelation Jesus said dogs are without. Strong’s refers to this word as spiritual dogs. I believe the parable of the ten virgins should suffice to support our Lord’s teaching on being worldly and bereft of spirit. Five did not enter. Jesus told John it was His prerogative to remove whoever He would. Jesus also said many would come to Him in that day and will say He never knew them. Who were these people? We know them, we’re surrounded by them. People who Believe a lie and are deceived and continue in a sinful life with false confidence in another gospel. IMHO.
 

Goodboy

Well-Known Member
Jesus came to Save(Not Saved) us from our sin, because sin has power. Thus we were saved by trusting in Him and are being saved by continuing(Sanctification) in Him, since sin is still present in our bodies. People I've talked to seem to think if you've believed you can't miss the rapture. Where does it say that? Are ALL the tribulation saints Jews, that's not scriptural either. So will some believers who have continued in sin be left behind like the Five virgins? So, sin has the Power through the flesh to separate us from God. Scripture/Comments? As an aside, how wonderful to have a platform to discuss the word with so many Biblically literate brethren, I for one am thankful for y'all (We just moved to the South,LOL)
I will let you and Andy or whomever else has a point debate who will be raptured, as I have enough on my plate trying to explain Hebrews 10 26, but I did want to make one comment.

At this time (The Grace Age) salvation is a totally free gift with no conditions other than belief and acceptance of what Jesus did on the cross, correct? Well during the tribulation the bible says that if you take the mark of the beast you will be condemned correct? So if any of today's Christians are left behind, it would be possible for them to take the mark and be dammed. Well then that would mean salvation was not a free gift, as your requirement is to not take the mark. Just a thought. :)
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
If christians who commit willfull sin wont be raptured, then that means nobody would be raptured. And yes, not all sin is willful, but EVERYONE has some form a willfull sins in their life.

Anyone who is a Christian when the rapture happens, their ticket up has already been paid for.
 
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