Is Halloween related to the Flood? Theory I heard

[Reason & Hope]

I came across a weird theory -- well, weird to me -- that Halloween harkens way back to the Flood. The person I heard it from was tying in the almost worldwide pagan idea of worshiping the dead with commemorating the Flood on October 31. I don't know how one can come up with October 31 as the date of the Flood, since the calendars are totally different. I do know that All Hallows' Eve is the eve to All Saints' Day, which is celebrated in the Anglican and Catholic traditions. All Saints' Day is when the church is supposed to honor the saints who have gone on before us. This does sound like a Christian alternative to the pagan traditions of dancing with and eating with one's dead ancestors once a year.

The point of this post is to ask if anyone else has heard of the Halloween-Flood connection?

 

[Chris]

I've never heard of the Halloween-Flood connection. Sounds like a long stretch to me.

I wouldn't pay any attention to it. The Catholics always try to combine Christianity with pagan stuff all the time.

People are making up stuff all the time that doesn't have anything to do with the truth. JMHO.

 

[athenasius]

I came across a weird theory -- well, weird to me -- that Halloween harkens way back to the Flood. The person I heard it from was tying in the almost worldwide pagan idea of worshiping the dead with commemorating the Flood on October 31. I don't know how one can come up with October 31 as the date of the Flood, since the calendars are totally different. I do know that All Hallows' Eve is the eve to All Saints' Day, which is celebrated in the Anglican and Catholic traditions. All Saints' Day is when the church is supposed to honor the saints who have gone on before us. This does sound like a Christian alternative to the pagan traditions of dancing with and eating with one's dead ancestors once a year.

The point of this post is to ask if anyone else has heard of the Halloween-Flood connection?

Yes and it makes perfect sense. Look at Genesis 7:11

Quick look at the calendar. In the Bible in Exodus 12 Moses is commanded by God to number the months from now on starting with Nisan which is when Passover is celebrated. Now known as the Jewish Religious or Nisan Calendar. That is in the SPRING

But that means they originally used the old CIVIL calendar aka the Jewish Civil or Tishrei Calendar in which Rosh Hashanah The JEWISH NEW YEAR is celebrated. That is a celebration of the Creation Week, and the Creation of Adam on the 6th day of that week. It's why the Jews to this day celebrate the New Year in the Fall, Tishrei the First

So NOAH would have used THAT earlier calendar system in counting the months. So Tishrei is the first month in the civil calendar. Cheshvan or Heshvan is the SECOND MONTH in Noah's calendar.

The FLOOD occurred on the 17th day of the SECOND month which is Cheshvan or Heshvan.

This year that would start Sundown Nov 1.

Because the Jewish calendar is based partly on the sun-- the solar equinoxes, partly on the moon -- the months begin with a new moon.

So the date in our calendar varies but it lands in the general season of the time we reckon as late October early November.

With me so far????

OK so this means that the Flood is in that general season that Halloween happens.

Fast forward from Noah to his grandkids and descendants. They all fall away from faith in God with a few exceptions. They all get pretty wicked, and Nimrod and the Tower of Babel happen. Then God divides the language and scatters the people.

Things get mixed up but in every people group several things are remembered.
Creation. God creates, man messes it up
The Flood. A guy, a boat, his family, the animals, worldwide destruction.
Dragons
Giants
and yes - a day to remember the dead.

Genesis 7:11 11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, on the seventeenth day of the second month—on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.

Exodus 12: 1-33
1 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron in Egypt, 2 “This month is to be for you the first month, the first month of your year. 3 Tell the whole community of Israel that on the tenth day of this month each man is to take a lamb for his family, one for each household.

 

[athenasius]

I've never heard of the Halloween-Flood connection. Sounds like a long stretch to me.

I wouldn't pay any attention to it. The Catholics always try to combine Christianity with pagan stuff all the time.

People are making up stuff all the time that doesn't have anything to do with the truth. JMHO.

The Catholics were the ones who took what had become a very big day on the Pagan's calendar, the Fall celebration of the dead and turned it into All Souls Day, followed by Nov 1 being All Saints Day.

As usual, trying to clean up a pagan holiday and give it a "christian" version. A lot of that happened when the Catholic church-- originally the church of Rome tried to amalgamate with the Pagans when Constantine made Christianity the State Religion. A lot of pagan worshippers, and pagan priests were overnight told to be Christians or else.

It's interesting that Martin Luther picked that very day Oct 31 to nail his Theses to the Wittenburg cathedral doors

BECAUSE he was so incensed over the business of paying for the dead to get sprung from purgatory (another Catholic invention designed to make the Popes and the church rich)

The very fact the Protestant church is launched in PROTEST of the undue emphasis on dead people- pagans (all soul's day) Oct 31 and "christians" (all saints day) Nov 1 is kind of wonderful.

We are free from those ancient ties to the dead. We serve a RISEN Lord, who redeemed us from the pit, and to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

Halloween customs - pumpkin carvings, bonfires, lighting candles inside the pumpkins are all Druid customs in their day of the dead ceremonies which came down thru Irish superstition and folklore.

 

[athenasius]

All you have to do is remember there are TWO New Years in the Jewish Calendar.

The month of Nisan-- Passover is the most important because Moses was told by God to number the months from Nisan, in short making the NEW NEW YEAR Nisan 1. That is the Religious calendar in place to this day and Jews number the months from Nisan now.

But the OLD or Civil calendar it replaced, was the one NOAH used, and it's the date in Genesis 7:11 is calculated as the second month or Cheshvan sometimes written as Heshvan 17. Which is in the Fall around the time of Halloween.

 

[Chris]

I found this article on the topic and it seems to cover the issue pretty good. The bottom line:

https://answersingenesis.org/holidays/halloween-history-and-the-bible/

"Due to the many varied accounts of celebrations of the day of the dead around the world, I would strongly suggest that its origin was a time when people groups were still gathered together or had closer ties. Is the event of Noah’s sacrifice where the day of the dead really originates? It is possible."

and...

"Halloween’s roots could easily extend this far (flood), but there should be no dogmatism about that being the case."

With that said, I don't know. This is the first time I've heard of a Halloween and Flood connection. But that doesn't mean anything. Maybe it is and maybe it is not. Again, I don't know.

 

[Reason & Hope]

Yes and it makes perfect sense. Look at Genesis 7:11

...

Thanks, Athenasius, for all your responses to this question. This theory was definitely a new one for me, even though I already knew about the calendar change and the worship of the dead stuff. (Btw, I consider the worship of the dead to be a way that demons snuck in to get some worship for themselves.)

I've also heard about the Druid origins for years, so it seemed a reach to get from Druids to the Flood. But you've explained the theory well.

I'm reminded of the story of the woman who prepares her Thanksgiving turkey by cutting it into two halves, placing those in 2 separate pans and then roasting them. When asked why, she says that's the way her mother did it. The mother says, that's the way my mother did it. Finally, someone asks the grandmother and she says, "I cooked it that way because I had a small oven and couldn't fit the turkey in any other way."

In other words, people carry down traditions for generations without really knowing what they mean. Sometimes they make up new meanings for the traditions that align with their current understanding of things.

 

[Jaybird]

There are so many opinions on celebrating Halloween it is sometimes difficult to discern the truth about it. Is it really a Satanic celebration or just kids dressing up like they are in a big costume party? Yes, the origin of it is likely pagan, but we don't celebrate it that way (Or do we now?). I took my child out on Halloween when he was young but I didn't say we were worshiping Satan. It's the same thought process with Christmas decorations. What the heck does a Christmas tree have to do with the birth of Christ? Nothing, yes, the tree has a pagan origin, but we use it as just a decoration for the season. Does this mean I am worshiping the tree? Absolutely not, but we still decorate our houses with it. It's just an object and yes, if we worship the object then it is idolatry, but to me the tree is just a decoration. Sometimes it is hard to draw the line between these customs that have pagan origins and have become so diluted in their original meaning that we celebrate them without giving them a second thought.

 

[Matthew6:33]

I think that Answers in Genesis article is excellent. It makes sense to me that the origins of Halloween came from the flood. How else could we explain the different people groups around the world all having a "day of the dead" type holiday around the same time of year, corresponding with Noah's calendar. I had actually been praying about this, so this article is an answer to prayer because I have always been pretty dogmatic about Halloween. I had this hatred for it and I used to think it was satan's day, and we were worshiping him. Even though I don't decorate for it or do anything other than chaperone the kids/wife walking around to the neighbors houses collecting candy. I was finding that my hatred of Halloween was causing an unholy anger and aggression in me that was not good. With all of the new obsession with death and morbid decorations in Halloween, I really love how Answers in Genesis brings up the reminder that we can use Halloween to remind others of their inevitable death and that death is caused by sin which leads to an eternal separation from God when we die. Yet, God's answer to this is the Gospel and it is a free gift to anyone who will believe.

 

[ranman33]

Yes and it makes perfect sense. Look at Genesis 7:11

Quick look at the calendar. In the Bible in Exodus 12 Moses is commanded by God to number the months from now on starting with Nisan which is when Passover is celebrated. Now known as the Jewish Religious or Nisan Calendar. That is in the SPRING

But that means they originally used the old CIVIL calendar aka the Jewish Civil or Tishrei Calendar in which Rosh Hashanah The JEWISH NEW YEAR is celebrated. That is a celebration of the Creation Week, and the Creation of Adam on the 6th day of that week. It's why the Jews to this day celebrate the New Year in the Fall, Tishrei the First

So NOAH would have used THAT earlier calendar system in counting the months. So Tishrei is the first month in the civil calendar. Cheshvan or Heshvan is the SECOND MONTH in Noah's calendar.

The FLOOD occurred on the 17th day of the SECOND month which is Cheshvan or Heshvan.

This year that would start Sundown Nov 1.

Because the Jewish calendar is based partly on the sun-- the solar equinoxes, partly on the moon -- the months begin with a new moon.

So the date in our calendar varies but it lands in the general season of the time we reckon as late October early November.

With me so far????

OK so this means that the Flood is in that general season that Halloween happens.

Fast forward from Noah to his grandkids and descendants. They all fall away from faith in God with a few exceptions. They all get pretty wicked, and Nimrod and the Tower of Babel happen. Then God divides the language and scatters the people.

Things get mixed up but in every people group several things are remembered.
Creation. God creates, man messes it up
The Flood. A guy, a boat, his family, the animals, worldwide destruction.
Dragons
Giants
and yes - a day to remember the dead.

Genesis 7:11 11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, on the seventeenth day of the second month—on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.

Exodus 12: 1-33
1 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron in Egypt, 2 “This month is to be for you the first month, the first month of your year. 3 Tell the whole community of Israel that on the tenth day of this month each man is to take a lamb for his family, one for each household.

 

[ranman33]

You are correct. Before God had Moses change the start of the yearly calendar (for counting months) to the spring, the start of the calendar was in the fall. The first month was Tishri and the seventh month was Nisan. Today the Jews have two calendars, the religious calendar begins in the spring and the Civil calendar begins in the fall. So, in Noah's time, the calendar probably started in the fall (Ussher's chronology of creation began in the fall, October 22, 4004 BC). Let's look at an example and say the 2042 AD calendar matched the one in the year of Noah's flood. October 14 is the conjunction of the new moon of fall (2nd new moon of fall), so October 15 would be Heshvan 1. That would make October 31st (Halloween) the 17th day of Heshvan (the 2nd month), which is the start of the flood per Genesis 7:11. Genesis 8:3-4 says the waters decreased for 150 days until the ark rested on the 17th day of the seventh month (Nisan) on the mountains of Ararat. 150 days from October 31 would be March 30 or Nisan 19 on the Jewish calendar (for the following calendar year). Nisan 19 is the 5th day of Unleavened Bread. Verse 13 says the waters were dried up from the earth and Noah removed the covering of the ark. This occurred on the 1st day of the 1st month, which would have been Tishri 1 or the Feast of Trumpets. Verse 14 says the earth was completely dried on the 27th day of the 2nd month (Heshvan), which would have been November 5. Noah and the other occupants were in the ark for 371 days.

 

[Matthew6:33]

You are correct. Before God had Moses change the start of the yearly calendar (for counting months) to the spring, the start of the calendar was in the fall. The first month was Tishri and the seventh month was Nisan. Today the Jews have two calendars, the religious calendar begins in the spring and the Civil calendar begins in the fall. So, in Noah's time, the calendar probably started in the fall (Ussher's chronology of creation began in the fall, October 22, 4004 BC). Let's look at an example and say the 2042 AD calendar matched the one in the year of Noah's flood. October 14 is the conjunction of the new moon of fall (2nd new moon of fall), so October 15 would be Heshvan 1. That would make October 31st (Halloween) the 17th day of Heshvan (the 2nd month), which is the start of the flood per Genesis 7:11. Genesis 8:3-4 says the waters decreased for 150 days until the ark rested on the 17th day of the seventh month (Nisan) on the mountains of Ararat. 150 days from October 31 would be March 30 or Nisan 19 on the Jewish calendar (for the following calendar year). Nisan 19 is the 5th day of Unleavened Bread. Verse 13 says the waters were dried up from the earth and Noah removed the covering of the ark. This occurred on the 1st day of the 1st month, which would have been Tishri 1 or the Feast of Trumpets. Verse 14 says the earth was completely dried on the 27th day of the 2nd month (Heshvan), which would have been November 5. Noah and the other occupants were in the ark for 371 days.

Fascinating