Ruth
Well-Known Member
Thank you for the link.
What has been occuring of late in this thread is discussing what some are saying is the difference between the two and trying to use scripture and specific points to get to the truth.
Is following Paul's Gospel alone heretical to some ?
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Thank you for the link.
What has been occuring of late in this thread is discussing what some are saying is the difference between the two and trying to use scripture and specific points to get to the truth.
I'll keep these responses short
Thank you for at least reading as far as you did, despite how confusing you found it.1) See post #3 We get that regularly, and I'm new to this site, so I have no idea how often it happens here. Now that I know this type of study of scripture is not welcome here, I will avoid these areas of the forum. I can lurk very inoffensively.
2) Apparently my writing style is confusing, so the apparent answer is no.
3) I am glad. I pray the lord blesses your faithfulness daily.
4) Studying God's word is one of my favorite things and I think our love of his word is pleasing to him. I think we will discover more shadows, types and layers forever in this supernatural document. And I want meat, not milk.
If this site is only to evangelize with the milk of the good news, then I apologize. I didn't read your mission statement as closely as I should have. I apologize for having created dissension among you.
God Bless your study and may you grow in your love and knowledge of the lord daily.
Aliya
Ruth
Well-Known Member
I'll keep these responses short
1) See post #3 We get that regularly, and I'm new to this site, so I have no idea how often it happens here. Now that I know this type of study of scripture is not welcome here, I will avoid these areas of the forum. I can lurk very inoffensively.
2) Apparently my writing style is confusing, so the apparent answer is no.
3) I am glad. I pray the lord blesses your faithfulness daily.
4) Studying God's word is one of my favorite things and I think our love of his word is pleasing to him. I think we will discover more shadows, types and layers forever in this supernatural document. And I want meat, not milk.
If this site is only to evangelize with the milk of the good news, then I apologize. I didn't read your mission statement as closely as I should have. I apologize for having created dissension among you.
God Bless your study and may you grow in your love and knowledge of the lord daily.
Aliya
I am sorry you took post #3 personally. I know that dear beloved poster and they did not mean any harm by it. Since you embrace meat and not milk - then I would think that in your journies on the internet that you would fully embrace the elements of the definition of love, since we are to love one another:
So, please let the love of our Lord rise above things and try not to take differences to heart or innocent indescretions personally when they were not meant that way. Love is not easily angered.
We all love meat of God's word - but we are all at different places in our walk. Paul taught us to love a brother in the Lord who is in a different place - and by example - they will find their way.
2:
Ruth
Well-Known Member
I hope the person who sent me this doesn't mind but I feel it is helpful to the discussion:
And here is my response:
I guess I am starting to see what you are saying. But, I always thought that Paul's teachings were simply the next transition. He transitioned the message to be one from man’s perspective to be from God’s perspective. While the other apostles were teaching the stepping stone from man's religion to a true faith - and how the conversion of works from one of self to that of the manifestations of the Holy Spirit by faith was a message to those who embraced religion. That Paul was the graduated version to hearts who had relied on self and worldly value systems to that of God's perfect grace and His value system.
I don't see it serving any purpose (except from a human perspective) to try to divide the teachings up. They should be blended and applied to the mindset of the person being given the gospel. If they are one of 'religion' then the gospels would apply. If they are one of the world's value system then Paul's teachings may be more appropriate to help them see the difference between God's way and man's way.
Any teaching that causes division in the body of Christ is one that sets off alarms to me as a tool of the enemy. Just like I will not argue rapture timing as it is unfruitful to the work we are given to do.
None of us know the day our heart will stop beating so the timing of the rapture is of no consequence.
The scriptures are written to speak to the hearts of men. The Jewish way of doing things ended up being a man made religion. The scriptures just happens to have been divided up the way it did because Israel is the example of how man's ways are and God deals with them to show the relationship between God and His people (and not because they are Jews but because He chose a people who based their trust and love on Faith in contrast to Eve who chose to trust her own judgment rejected her relationship with Him) The Jewish way of doing things ended up being a man made religion. We have many of those today. If the teaching of the gospel message (Matthew Mark Luke John) reaches a man's heart for God's glory than it is fruitful to do so. If the epistles of Paul are the direction to use to reach a man’s heart than use it. When Paul walked out on to Mars Hill he looked at all their gods and spoke to them about the unnamed god. That is how we use the scriptures – not to cause division but to have the Lord help us discern the correct teaching to reach a man’s heart with our words – to God’s glory.
And here is my response:
I guess I am starting to see what you are saying. But, I always thought that Paul's teachings were simply the next transition. He transitioned the message to be one from man’s perspective to be from God’s perspective. While the other apostles were teaching the stepping stone from man's religion to a true faith - and how the conversion of works from one of self to that of the manifestations of the Holy Spirit by faith was a message to those who embraced religion. That Paul was the graduated version to hearts who had relied on self and worldly value systems to that of God's perfect grace and His value system.
I don't see it serving any purpose (except from a human perspective) to try to divide the teachings up. They should be blended and applied to the mindset of the person being given the gospel. If they are one of 'religion' then the gospels would apply. If they are one of the world's value system then Paul's teachings may be more appropriate to help them see the difference between God's way and man's way.
Any teaching that causes division in the body of Christ is one that sets off alarms to me as a tool of the enemy. Just like I will not argue rapture timing as it is unfruitful to the work we are given to do.
None of us know the day our heart will stop beating so the timing of the rapture is of no consequence.
The scriptures are written to speak to the hearts of men. The Jewish way of doing things ended up being a man made religion. The scriptures just happens to have been divided up the way it did because Israel is the example of how man's ways are and God deals with them to show the relationship between God and His people (and not because they are Jews but because He chose a people who based their trust and love on Faith in contrast to Eve who chose to trust her own judgment rejected her relationship with Him) The Jewish way of doing things ended up being a man made religion. We have many of those today. If the teaching of the gospel message (Matthew Mark Luke John) reaches a man's heart for God's glory than it is fruitful to do so. If the epistles of Paul are the direction to use to reach a man’s heart than use it. When Paul walked out on to Mars Hill he looked at all their gods and spoke to them about the unnamed god. That is how we use the scriptures – not to cause division but to have the Lord help us discern the correct teaching to reach a man’s heart with our words – to God’s glory.
Ruth
Well-Known Member
The gift of salvation/redemption was given to mankind. The scriptures are all about God and man. It is not about God and Israel and God and the Gentiles. It is about God and man. Israel was a picture of God's people as brought to Him by faith (Abraham)
Just as Adam and Eve are a picture of man choosing self over God.
From beginning to end - it is about man's relationship with God.
There are many pictures and examples of various errors that man makes following their own wisdom. Whichever of those pictures and examples will turn a man's heart to God is what an evangelist should use without concern if they are Jews or Gentiles.
It is the condition of the heart - not from the stock they were born from.
Just as Adam and Eve are a picture of man choosing self over God.
From beginning to end - it is about man's relationship with God.
There are many pictures and examples of various errors that man makes following their own wisdom. Whichever of those pictures and examples will turn a man's heart to God is what an evangelist should use without concern if they are Jews or Gentiles.
It is the condition of the heart - not from the stock they were born from.
BuzzardHut
Bird Mod
Only one sin cannot be forgiven - 'rejecting salvation'
Can a person change his mind and receive salvation? yes
Can he die in rejection of salvation and go to heaven? no
Can a person change his mind and receive salvation? yes
Can he die in rejection of salvation and go to heaven? no
Ruth
Well-Known Member
Those of us from the dispensational camp are not intending to divide the body, and concerning salvation,it is not an Important issue IMO,as long as a person accepts Christ as Lord and Savior..The focus of my intent and belief is to show people that being,trying and working to be a good Christian will not get/keep them saved;those are good things, if they are done out of thankfulness to God, and out of compultion from the indwelling holy spirit,...we also do not condone licenciousness,but believe in a holy,righteous Christian walk..But like Aliya,we learn to crave MEAT of the word,and want to know WHY,and WHAT are the essentials of salvation, and WHAT is secondary in importance.
Ruth
Well-Known Member
I think you are confused if you think that those of us who don't agree with you do not crave meat of the scriptures. We do very much and in some ways may even have surpassed where you are at and see that you are actually trying to resolve issues that are considered to really be milk issues.
No one hear condones any kind of work to get or retain salvation.
If you read the doctrine of faith associated with this site we believe:
In faith alone, by Christ alone, in grace alone.
We believe that a person's salvation is permanent and cannot be lost and is not maintained with works. We believe in the dispensational stages of God's plan.
We do not believe salvation is attained or retained by works in any way and do think that is what is taught in any aspect of the scriptures anywhere. Not in the Gospels or in the Epistles. If you are reading that into it then you need to prayerfully re-read them and ask the Holy Spirit to teach you what they are truly saying because they are not giving a separate set ot teachings to Isreal and the Gentiles. It is one gospel consistently taught throughout the scriptures from Genesis to Revelation. The various dispensations as God prepared the hearts of men and the world for the Messiah all still have the same message.
When Jesus descended into the earth prior to His ressurection, He descended to preach to the captives and set them free. They were held there until their sins were paid for but they were justified by faith.
Ephesians 4:8-10
Eph 4:8This is why it[a] says:
"When he ascended on high,
he led captives in his train
and gave gifts to men." 9(What does "he ascended" mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions[c]? 10He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)
I really fail to understand what it is that you and your friend are alluding to that you think we are not understanding in saying that 'you' prefer meat and inferring that we are simply teaching milk. That is really confusing to me.
Ruth
Well-Known Member
At first glance - it appears that these links purport ideas that are contrary to the guidelines set by this forum. Am I misunderstanding them or do they hold to the pauline dispensationalism that has been discussed by several in this thread as truth?
BuzzardHut
Bird Mod
[05] Do not promote anything non-Christian or un-Biblical. We believe in only one true gospel of saving grace through faith in Jesus alone. Do not promote hyper Dispensationalism or hyper Calvinism
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