Is Babylon once again rising from the ashes?

athenasius

Well-Known Member
I concur. It makes a lot of sense. Another thing that I have pondered is the calendars. Most of the West/Europe uses a 365-day calendar. but events on Revelation use a 360-day calendar. This theory accounts for that, as well.
If you enjoy Biblical calendar stuff, you might enjoy Dr Ken Johnson's work on the Essene calendar if you haven't already found his work. He compares the prophetic calendar-- the one that runs on a 360 day cycle, the Essene calendar and the one in use by the Pharisees, with the Julian and Gregorian calendars and how that affects dates for various events.

I have always believed that end time events will be centered on the original two cities of Jerusalem and Babylon (Jerusalem being God's city, and Babylon representing the seat of Satan). I do believe that the Luciferian occult was transferred to Rome, but that the Bible clearly teaches the return of that religion to Babylon (see Zecharia 5:5-11). There are still a few parts of prophecy that confuse the issue a bit for me. The Babylon in Revelation is spoken of as having ships in water nearby. That does not sound like current day Babylon. I live near Houston, however, which is many miles from the Gulf of Mexico. In the 1800's, people would have laughed at the idea that Houston would become a major port city, but in the early 1900s, Houston actually created a 50 mile complex of channels and facilities and has become one of the largest ports in the U.S. It may be that something similar could happen in the area of Babylon. Either way, it just makes sense to me that God is returning the focus of the world to the nation of Israel, and the places that persecuted Israel in Biblical days. .I believe that the America's and Australia were meant to be prominent during the latter times of the Gentiles, but that the mid-east and Europe (as the Roman Empire) will rise again to prominence when the final week of the Jewish people begins. It's as if God paused His judgements on the nations that persecuted Israel during Biblical times, and will bring them up again during the Tribulation to complete the judgements on those nations at the end of days.
I've seen some stuff, and I think it was Andy Woods talking about it, or writing about it, where Saddam H, the former leader of Iraq was trying to get Kuwait partly for oil, but partly to solve a problem he had with access to the sea at the mouth of the 2 great rivers, the Tigris and the Euphrates where they join in the delta region forming one single river called the Shatt al-Arab as they empty out into the Persian Gulf.

His plan was to dredge a channel to allow shipping a long way up the rivers. But Kuwait has opposed that and so has Iran. They prefer to keep Iraq choked off from the sea.

Here is the Encyclopaedia Brittanica on the subject:
"Because the lower Shatt al-Arab forms a portion of the Iraq-Iran border, Iraq’s dependence on the river as its only access to the sea has been an issue of strategic importance to both countries. The vulnerability of the minor Iraqi port at Al-Fāw, at the mouth of the Shatt al-Arab, was made clear by Iran’s capture of the city during the Iran-Iraq War. After that war, Iraq began cutting a channel to the gulf from Al-Zubayr, west of the main port of Baṣrah. It has been argued that the Persian Gulf War was brought on partly by Iraq’s desire to use the Kuwaiti islands of Būbiyān and Al-Warbah in the gulf as the off-loading points for that new channel."

This plan if it ever were to go ahead would require Iran and Kuwait to allow it. That suggests it might occur sometime after Iran gets a major defeat such as Ezek 38 outlines and Kuwait wouldn't be able to oppose such a plan if Iran weren't in it with Kuwait.



 

Jan51

Well-Known Member
I have always believed that end time events will be centered on the original two cities of Jerusalem and Babylon (Jerusalem being God's city, and Babylon representing the seat of Satan). I do believe that the Luciferian occult was transferred to Rome, but that the Bible clearly teaches the return of that religion to Babylon (see Zecharia 5:5-11). There are still a few parts of prophecy that confuse the issue a bit for me. The Babylon in Revelation is spoken of as having ships in water nearby. That does not sound like current day Babylon. I live near Houston, however, which is many miles from the Gulf of Mexico. In the 1800's, people would have laughed at the idea that Houston would become a major port city, but in the early 1900s, Houston actually created a 50 mile complex of channels and facilities and has become one of the largest ports in the U.S. It may be that something similar could happen in the area of Babylon. Either way, it just makes sense to me that God is returning the focus of the world to the nation of Israel, and the places that persecuted Israel in Biblical days. .I believe that the America's and Australia were meant to be prominent during the latter times of the Gentiles, but that the mid-east and Europe (as the Roman Empire) will rise again to prominence when the final week of the Jewish people begins. It's as if God paused His judgements on the nations that persecuted Israel during Biblical times, and will bring them up again during the Tribulation to complete the judgements on those nations at the end of days.
I too see the Bible as "A Tale of Two Cities," LOL. I believe Babylon, or more precisely Babylon the Great, is man's kingdom, as distinguished from God's kingdom which will come when God finally destroys man's kingdom.

Rev. 17:5 speaks of Babylon as a mystery--something now revealed that was not previously revealed. Babylon in the Bible has always been a known city and kingdom, so it is not revealing that. Something else is being clarified, something more than the literal, something symbolic.

The Bible has a lot negative to say about cities, often speaking of "the city" as the seat of evil commercialism, for example, Isa. 23-25. Look at the first two cities mentioned in the Bible, Cain's city and Nimrod's city, both founded in rebellion to God's specific command.

Rev. 17-18 speaks of Babylon as sitting on many waters; 17:15 tells us the waters are symbolic of the Gentile nations, the world. It is not speaking of a coastal town. In 18, those who weep over her destruction are those whose livelihood is centered around commercialism, buying and selling and making a profit--materialism, greed, covetousness: kings, 18:9, merchants, 11, 15. 18:17, "every shipmaster and every passenger and sailor, and as many as make their living by the sea," and 19, "the great city, in which all who had ships at sea became rich by her wealth."

I don't think "the smoke of her burning" in 9 is literal smoke but speaks of her destruction which is complete, obvious to all, and in a short period of time, 8, "in one day." 23 confirms that evil and deceptive commercialism has been behind all the powerful men of all time. God hates that, and is about to destroy that, before He brings in His righteous kingdom.
 

DanLMP

Well-Known Member
How far along does Babylon have to be rebuilt or does it have no bearing on the timing of the rapture?

That's my problem with Babylon being the actual rebuilt city.

If the new World Government, or any other entity, wants to make Babylon their new headquarters city, they are going to want a certain amount of infrastructure to be in place before they move in. That type of construction project takes years. Yes, if they are motivated they could do it in short years but considering the amount of hubbub that will be going on with the Seals at the beginning of the Trib, I think they would need to be at that level before the Trib begins.

To my knowledge, no one has picked up the construction where Iraq left off. So the city is not ready yet. Considering the state of the world and how close I feel we are to going home I don't think they have enough time for construction before the Seals start.
 

UntilTheWholeWorldHears

Well-Known Member
That's my problem with Babylon being the actual rebuilt city.

If the new World Government, or any other entity, wants to make Babylon their new headquarters city, they are going to want a certain amount of infrastructure to be in place before they move in. That type of construction project takes years. Yes, if they are motivated they could do it in short years but considering the amount of hubbub that will be going on with the Seals at the beginning of the Trib, I think they would need to be at that level before the Trib begins.

To my knowledge, no one has picked up the construction where Iraq left off. So the city is not ready yet. Considering the state of the world and how close I feel we are to going home I don't think they have enough time for construction before the Seals start.
Based on what I'm reading on the internet, Babylon is far, far, from being built.
Yet, so many of the signs that we're witnessing scream end times.
 

UntilTheWholeWorldHears

Well-Known Member
I’m more concerned with the Babylons in each of our own areas in the here and now. The culture reeks of it and is thrown in our faces daily.
Yes, but scripture talks about a physical Babylon being destroyed in the end times.
A rebuilt city in Iraq would be a sign that we are indeed on the cusp of the end. As of today, that reality seems many years away.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
That's my problem with Babylon being the actual rebuilt city.

If the new World Government, or any other entity, wants to make Babylon their new headquarters city, they are going to want a certain amount of infrastructure to be in place before they move in. That type of construction project takes years. Yes, if they are motivated they could do it in short years but considering the amount of hubbub that will be going on with the Seals at the beginning of the Trib, I think they would need to be at that level before the Trib begins.

To my knowledge, no one has picked up the construction where Iraq left off. So the city is not ready yet. Considering the state of the world and how close I feel we are to going home I don't think they have enough time for construction before the Seals start.
Yes, but scripture talks about a physical Babylon being destroyed in the end times.
A rebuilt city in Iraq would be a sign that we are indeed on the cusp of the end. As of today, that reality seems many years away.
Even NEOM which some look at as a model for a fast city in the desert or a Babylon candidate (because it sits within the old empire of Babylon) isn't being talked of much right now. It seems to have stalled or slowed down a lot. Those are VERY good points about the time for construction. The first phase of the actual city is scheduled to open in 2025 with the industrial manufacturing segment (some very ambitious hydrogen power plants etc) hopefully coming on line in 22 but again, a lot of talk, not a whole lot of actual action.
 

MapleLeaf

Well-Known Member
We don't know for certain we are in the very end of the end times. I do think we are in the death gargling throes of the West but that doesn't necessarily mean The End. We wouldn't be the first empire to fall. It's been a long, long run. Sure, the baton was passed between various individual nations but we were all essentially the same entity. It's possible there could be a long 'pause' after the west's fall as the the final beast system builds itself up. So, that could work with a literal Babylon.

I'm still not convinced it's a literal Babylon though. If 'Babylon' really was a code word for Rome in Revelation I think there will be a resurgence from that area. It's the spirit of Babylon that is most relevant, I think.
 

Epieikes

Well-Known Member
We don't know for certain we are in the very end of the end times. I do think we are in the death gargling throes of the West but that doesn't necessarily mean The End. We wouldn't be the first empire to fall. It's been a long, long run. Sure, the baton was passed between various individual nations but we were all essentially the same entity. It's possible there could be a long 'pause' after the west's fall as the the final beast system builds itself up. So, that could work with a literal Babylon.

I'm still not convinced it's a literal Babylon though. If 'Babylon' really was a code word for Rome in Revelation I think there will be a resurgence from that area. It's the spirit of Babylon that is most relevant, I think.
As for the American portion of the West, we would be the first God-blessed, God-glorifying-in-origin empire to fall, however. We are mightily flawed and massively culpable, but this is apples to oranges where empires are concerned. Blogger-eschatologist Pete Garcia has some great takes on both technological developments and America (the good, the bad, and the ugly) as barometers of the status of things...I tend to agree with him as to "sooner rather than later," but that's just me.

It's interesting, though. We're going line by line through Zechariah on Tuesday nights. (Andy Woods' "woman in a basket"---WHAAAT?-- compelled us!) In it, the woman, epitomizing "wickedness", is pushed back down (basket not "full" yet) into the basket, repping unjust commerce, shut in by the lead lid, and carried to the Shinar Plain, aka Babylon, by two winged creatures, "where a temple will be built for it." Right back where it all started...between the Tigris and the Euphrates...where Nimrod did his thing...and I DO believe it's absolutely physical. I call Babylon the "Anti-Jerusalem."

I'm also convinced things can fall apart and/or come together as rapidly as our last two years have demonstrated to us. Yet only time will tell. Maranatha!
 

Mocha Latte

Well-Known Member
There are some good theories and suggestions here. We keep seeing more of the picture coming into focus (being revealed) but there are still parts and pieces that remain a mystery so far. It is distressing to think that some of the things that might need to happen may be many more years in the making, because the signs seem to be getting hot and heavy already. I just keep wondering how long the descent into evil can drag on and how much longer the restraining will last until we “run out of normal” as discussed in other threads.
 

UntilTheWholeWorldHears

Well-Known Member
We don't know for certain we are in the very end of the end times. I do think we are in the death gargling throes of the West but that doesn't necessarily mean The End. We wouldn't be the first empire to fall. It's been a long, long run. Sure, the baton was passed between various individual nations but we were all essentially the same entity. It's possible there could be a long 'pause' after the west's fall as the the final beast system builds itself up. So, that could work with a literal Babylon.

I'm still not convinced it's a literal Babylon though. If 'Babylon' really was a code word for Rome in Revelation I think there will be a resurgence from that area. It's the spirit of Babylon that is most relevant, I think.
There's a lot of Christians that have that view.
 

daygo

Well-Known Member
We don't know for certain we are in the very end of the end times. I do think we are in the death gargling throes of the West but that doesn't necessarily mean The End. We wouldn't be the first empire to fall. It's been a long, long run. Sure, the baton was passed between various individual nations but we were all essentially the same entity. It's possible there could be a long 'pause' after the west's fall as the the final beast system builds itself up. So, that could work with a literal Babylon.

I'm still not convinced it's a literal Babylon though. If 'Babylon' really was a code word for Rome in Revelation I think there will be a resurgence from that area. It's the spirit of Babylon that is most relevant, I think.
I think it's a literal babylon.
 

Epieikes

Well-Known Member
There are some good theories and suggestions here. We keep seeing more of the picture coming into focus (being revealed) but there are still parts and pieces that remain a mystery so far. It is distressing to think that some of the things that might need to happen may be many more years in the making, because the signs seem to be getting hot and heavy already. I just keep wondering how long the descent into evil can drag on and how much longer the restraining will last until we “run out of normal” as discussed in other threads.
I truly understand and completely agree here. When I'm having my best Yahweh-surrendered moments, I let myself get "extreme-faith-giddy" as in..."Okay, Lord, You knew this would be coming and that we would be the ones to psychologically, emotionally, physically, spiritually bear it. (I mean, knowing the world as we know it could easily end in your generation as confirmed prophetically and not just wishfully is pretty...heavy.) Now, as Mac Powell sang, 'Show Us Your Glory' in ways so wonderfully and supernaturally fulfilling as You sustain and care for us that others are compelled to run to and stick to You forever." I keep feeling that somehow He will shower extra grace, mercy, provision, protection, perspective upon us as we seek and cling to Him until one way or another, we are Home with Him. And miraculously, it won't have seemed a moment too long...
 

JoyJoyJoy

I Shall Not Be Moved
I just finished Brother Andy Woods' Revelation series (if time lasts, I plan to listen again. It's excellent). He spent 5 or 6 lessons on why Babylon means Babylon, iirc.
I would encourage anyone to listen to the lessons and also the end of the series, the teachings on the last 2 books of the Bible....its lengthy, but if it doesn't set you on fire, then your wood is wet. It opened my eyes and also gave me such joy and hope. Our future is *outta this world!!!!*
 

Spartan Sprinter 1

Formerly known as Shaun
I just finished Brother Andy Woods' Revelation series (if time lasts, I plan to listen again. It's excellent). He spent 5 or 6 lessons on why Babylon means Babylon, iirc.
I would encourage anyone to listen to the lessons and also the end of the series, the teachings on the last 2 books of the Bible....its lengthy, but if it doesn't set you on fire, then your wood is wet. It opened my eyes and also gave me such joy and hope. Our future is *outta this world!!!!*
Yep i agree with that view too, just like Israel , maybe Babylon may also take a while to be rebuilt.
 
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