I'm not 100% in...

Cindy S.

When he comes, will he find faith? Luke 18:8
30Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
Matthew 12:30

23 Jesus said to him, “If[a] you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes.”

24 Immediately the father of the child cried out and said with tears, “Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!”
Mark 9:24



Pray and ask the Lord to help your unbelief. It's a very dangerous place to be in. :hug
 

Eric Nicholas

Well-Known Member
It sounds like a problem of the heart, instead of the intellect? Maybe both? That's what I gather, at least. Is it His plan that these things happen, though? I don't know, I don't think so. I'm of the belief that we have free agency, not that we are predetermined to a specific course. If we have free agency, we are free to do both good and bad. I think we get caught in the ripples of unrelenting evil that is practiced in the world through our choices. I get it, though. Why did the child just have to die, right? Why did the wonderful mother have to die, one that had children? Was that something that just absolutely had to happen? I go through that or like kind at some point almost every day and honestly, it doesn't get much easier any time I think about it, no matter how chronic that reaction has become. I have to warn, this will not be an entirely comprehensive or exhaustive list of points.

I think there is at least decent evidence that a God exists. The beginning of the universe is a great starter. I have read as many evidences as I could, both pro and against the faith, and I found atheism/agnosticism wanting. I found it remarkably intellectually depleted, contrary to popular level sentiment. The universe coming into being, I believe is devastating to atheism. There is no observable reality or phenomenon where anything can emerge from nothing. There is nothing scientific about its emergence in the materialist worldview, as it violates their very tenants. Remember, nothing isn't space. Nothing isn't blackness. Nothing can't be observed. Nothing has no properties, whatsoever. It doesn't emit smell, it doesn't see, it has no senses, no movement, no properties, no touch, no sight, no characteristics, no traits, and no causal power, etc. It isn't even an it. To think that anything, heck, a single molecule could emerge from something so remarkably absent (nothing) is a bridge too far. Scientists will claim that they have manipulated nothing. No they haven't. You cannot manipulate nothing, because it isn't there. In desperation to escape the a universe spawning from nothing, they have happily twisted the definition of "nothing". That's cute, but its not exactly clever and it's grossly dishonest.

I find the Bible gives a remarkably accurate account of what is currently reflected in the world, right from the beginning, far more than the alternatives. If we care to read it, we can fully expect a litany of trials and evil to befall nearly everyone, if not everyone on this planet, as we are warned. Yet, even though I have an intellectual understanding of evil, it's hard for the emotions to accept that reality. Then, comes Jesus.

Jesus, His life, and the writing of the bible are some of the most historically attested documents in all of history. We have far less information for historical characters, opposed to Jesus, that we have been taught about since grade school, ad nauseam, yet we believe them without flinching. That's a bit odd, right? This really isn't an opinion. Even the most secular historians agree that it's attested and ancient. It didn't have enough time to develop into myth or legend in the culture, either. The historical evidence tends to point towards the life of Jesus, the lives he transformed, the people willing to die for Him shortly after his death and even before, and an empty tomb. If that tomb was empty, that changes the entire world, forever. It changes you down to the very molecule of your being, whether we want it to or not. I believe as the world unfolds, you can almost take it right off the pages for confirmation. But again, this may not help your emotions and that's where I have to try to rest and trust, as unsatisfying as it may be to me, and it is. If Christ raised from the dead, and I believe that He did, that almost certainly means that the Bible is true, as he didn't deny the other writings nor dissuade the future authors of later books of the Bible.

However, that brings us back to the problem of evil. I don't think any of us will get utter closure of evil while we are in this world. This fallen world (cliche' sounding, I know) does not afford us such a luxury. But if God is who He says He is, He will make it alright, sooner rather than later. He will step in and fix everything that ails mankind. That's our hope, it sure is mine. That's what every believer on this forum is looking forward to. We are looking for death itself to be quarantined,. We look forward to all the wrongs being right, and our flesh transforming into something utterly glorified. We are looking forward to our hope being fully realized in a conscious state, hopefully very, very soon, even though hope can run contrary to our current being.

This was very rough, as this topic could be talked about and debated until the very end far more clearly than I have presented here in fast fashion. But it was some points that I hope you choose to investigate. I pray that you are convicted of your sin and realize that you need to be saved before it's too late, as you've stated. I think you know something is wrong and I would suggest you ask God to reveal Himself to you through Christ and see what happens. You may get something you never could have expected. Something that will get you to the end and your and our fears, worries, anxieties, and deaths will be put away, forever, by the One who had the audacity to conquer death.

I do apologize for this being a super rough draft of what I wanted to share. I wanted to say more, but it is already long-winded enough, and maybe jumbled to boot. Perhaps I will revise it later, if you care to read it. I will have you in the forethought of my prayers. I hope you find what you absolutely need.
 

Eric Nicholas

Well-Known Member
I do not think I will revise my previous post, as I'm not sure I could do much better in the context of a forum. There is just so much to say and its complexity is tricky to formulate and make it cogent enough to satisfy hard scrutiny. It's like administrator Mattfivefour said, not verbatim "you'd need a thick book".

However, I did want to drop by and let you know that I'm praying for your utter victory, Danielson. I look forward to it.
 

Danielson

Well-Known Member
It sounds like a problem of the heart, instead of the intellect? Maybe both? That's what I gather, at least. Is it His plan that these things happen, though? I don't know, I don't think so. I'm of the belief that we have free agency, not that we are predetermined to a specific course. If we have free agency, we are free to do both good and bad. I think we get caught in the ripples of unrelenting evil that is practiced in the world through our choices. I get it, though. Why did the child just have to die, right? Why did the wonderful mother have to die, one that had children? Was that something that just absolutely had to happen? I go through that or like kind at some point almost every day and honestly, it doesn't get much easier any time I think about it, no matter how chronic that reaction has become. I have to warn, this will not be an entirely comprehensive or exhaustive list of points.

I think there is at least decent evidence that a God exists. The beginning of the universe is a great starter. I have read as many evidences as I could, both pro and against the faith, and I found atheism/agnosticism wanting. I found it remarkably intellectually depleted, contrary to popular level sentiment. The universe coming into being, I believe is devastating to atheism. There is no observable reality or phenomenon where anything can emerge from nothing. There is nothing scientific about its emergence in the materialist worldview, as it violates their very tenants. Remember, nothing isn't space. Nothing isn't blackness. Nothing can't be observed. Nothing has no properties, whatsoever. It doesn't emit smell, it doesn't see, it has no senses, no movement, no properties, no touch, no sight, no characteristics, no traits, and no causal power, etc. It isn't even an it. To think that anything, heck, a single molecule could emerge from something so remarkably absent (nothing) is a bridge too far. Scientists will claim that they have manipulated nothing. No they haven't. You cannot manipulate nothing, because it isn't there. In desperation to escape the a universe spawning from nothing, they have happily twisted the definition of "nothing". That's cute, but its not exactly clever and it's grossly dishonest.

I find the Bible gives a remarkably accurate account of what is currently reflected in the world, right from the beginning, far more than the alternatives. If we care to read it, we can fully expect a litany of trials and evil to befall nearly everyone, if not everyone on this planet, as we are warned. Yet, even though I have an intellectual understanding of evil, it's hard for the emotions to accept that reality. Then, comes Jesus.

Jesus, His life, and the writing of the bible are some of the most historically attested documents in all of history. We have far less information for historical characters, opposed to Jesus, that we have been taught about since grade school, ad nauseam, yet we believe them without flinching. That's a bit odd, right? This really isn't an opinion. Even the most secular historians agree that it's attested and ancient. It didn't have enough time to develop into myth or legend in the culture, either. The historical evidence tends to point towards the life of Jesus, the lives he transformed, the people willing to die for Him shortly after his death and even before, and an empty tomb. If that tomb was empty, that changes the entire world, forever. It changes you down to the very molecule of your being, whether we want it to or not. I believe as the world unfolds, you can almost take it right off the pages for confirmation. But again, this may not help your emotions and that's where I have to try to rest and trust, as unsatisfying as it may be to me, and it is. If Christ raised from the dead, and I believe that He did, that almost certainly means that the Bible is true, as he didn't deny the other writings nor dissuade the future authors of later books of the Bible.

However, that brings us back to the problem of evil. I don't think any of us will get utter closure of evil while we are in this world. This fallen world (cliche' sounding, I know) does not afford us such a luxury. But if God is who He says He is, He will make it alright, sooner rather than later. He will step in and fix everything that ails mankind. That's our hope, it sure is mine. That's what every believer on this forum is looking forward to. We are looking for death itself to be quarantined,. We look forward to all the wrongs being right, and our flesh transforming into something utterly glorified. We are looking forward to our hope being fully realized in a conscious state, hopefully very, very soon, even though hope can run contrary to our current being.

This was very rough, as this topic could be talked about and debated until the very end far more clearly than I have presented here in fast fashion. But it was some points that I hope you choose to investigate. I pray that you are convicted of your sin and realize that you need to be saved before it's too late, as you've stated. I think you know something is wrong and I would suggest you ask God to reveal Himself to you through Christ and see what happens. You may get something you never could have expected. Something that will get you to the end and your and our fears, worries, anxieties, and deaths will be put away, forever, by the One who had the audacity to conquer death.

I do apologize for this being a super rough draft of what I wanted to share. I wanted to say more, but it is already long-winded enough, and maybe jumbled to boot. Perhaps I will revise it later, if you care to read it. I will have you in the forethought of my prayers. I hope you find what you absolutely need.
Thank you for your reply. Many of your thoughts and points are the same as mine.
 

Mikedexion

Well-Known Member
Hey Daniel, hope you're still following this thread.

I hope some of these answers helped! What really stuck with me was your questions about why people suffer etc, why children die? Let me share you my story:

I grew up as a son to a family of Jehovah's Witnesses, long story short my mom died of stage 4 cancer. She was always a great person and she always stood for righteousness although she was not saved. I prayed that God would heal her and give her life... but that prayer was not answered the way I wanted it to. She passed away September 2017 but just before she passed. I asked her if she believed in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins and for salvation, she answered yes!
Fast forward to now, I know for sure that even though her body is dead and buried, her spirit (which retains all 5 senses if not more) is in heaven in the presence of God. The child who dies is innocent and cannot decide for himself to choose Jesus Christ or not so by default the spirits of children go to heaven upon their death. Its not easy to remember this because we only see life through basically a glass half full. What will become of the parents? I cannot say but I do know many who have trusted God through the suffering of their circumstances in life and He has healed them.

Daniel, inside of you is something that cannot die, its your spirit. Your spirit came from God and it is the full essence of who you are as a person. Your spirit also has a body (you can't see it obviously) and it also can see, smell touch, taste, and feel. Right now your spirit is in a cage of flesh and blood which is the physical image of your personality. Out of 7+ billion people no two spirits are the same although twins and triplets can be found all over the world. Knowing this puts a different perspective on people who die.... I know their bodies died but their spirits are alive and went to either one of two places.

As to the other question you had about why we are in this situation in the first place? It has to do with authority, God's authority. God of course could easily zap Satan the Devil with his power and eradicate him from existence... but wouldn't that make him look like... oh I dunno a dictator? Take for example a king or president who allows a resistance movement to pop up. What does the king do? Just kill off the opposition leader so that now all the people in his nation are now governed by fear? How can we love and respect that King when there's this lingering fear of being instantly killed if we have a different opinion?

I believe God has allowed humans to make that choice. To choose between life on their own under the influence of the Devil (or themselves) or to be with God. When Adam and Eve disobeyed God in the garden of eve authority over the earth shifted. God still made the earth and still justly has the final say about what happens... but he has allowed humanity to be their own king. The Devil being alot smarter than we are, pulls the strings behind this because he just wants us to be separated from God like he is. So what God did was raise up an opposition movement to bring people back to himself.... eventually a problem came up, human DNA was about to become extinct....

One of the main reasons why God flooded the earth is because human DNA was dying off as the fallen angels breeded with human women and gave birth to Giants (the Nephilim) this corrupted humanity SO BAD that God had to rescue humanity through Noah and his family while he got rid of creatures who were never supposed to be there. Then came Abraham, Issac, then Jacob who later became Israel.
The nation of Israel is God's resistance movement to show the world how they should live Godly lives. Remember God is allowing the world to be governed by humans and not himself. Israel however keeps going astray and following after the fallen world's ways and not God's.
Then God takes it upon himself to be born a man and live like we do in order to be the legal sacrifice needed in order to be excused from judgement. Then came the church, the continuation of God's resistance movement on the earth.

The story will eventually conclude by the church being removed and things shifting back to Israel as the beacon of God's resistance and Satan will be proved by all creation to be the murderous liar that he is and will be punished once and for all.... We are very close to that as Israel became a nation of Jews again since 1948

To know abit about God's plan is what helps me with these questions whenever they come up in my own head.
 
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Moonlight

Thoroughly depressed and waiting for the trumpet
There is an irrefutable way to prove that God exists and that the Bible is His Word. It requires pure logic, without the need for external knowledge such as scientific facts. It really changes your perspective on things when you realize it, but it is nonetheless true.

The whole proof is in-depth, but I will give you the foundation of it, as it deals with the foundations of knowledge.

What can you really know, and how do you know it? Answering that will likely give you trouble. There are many ways in which something you think you know can turn out to be false, hence you would never have actually known it to be true.

However, knowledge itself must still be possible. Because if we conclude that it is not possible, then we know that it is not possible, thus creating a logical contradiction. But if we conclude that it is possible, well, then it is indeed possible.

So therefore, it is logically impossible for knowledge to be impossible.

Continuing on, how therefore, does one know anything?

It ultimately relies on an Ultimate Standard, your ultimate source for true, reliable information.
  • Some Ultimate Standards are really weak, meaning they don't give reliable information.
    • For example:
      • Relying on another person's word for what is true (People can lie)
      • Relying on your own personal ideas for what certain things are true (i.e. Trusting your feelings rather than logic)
      • Relying on what the majority thinks is true (Majority of people believing in something does not intrinsically mean it's right.)
      • Your own regular sensory experiences (The senses can be lied to)
  • However, there is one, and only one Ultimate Standard that is actually reliable for knowledge, and that is God.
Let me elaborate:
  • The Laws of Logic, (I'll refer to just as Logic) are true. Two of the most fundamental laws are:
    • The law of non-contradiction: (A and not-A cannot both be true at the same time and in the same way)
    • The law of non-arbitrariness: (It's impossible for something to be true without any reason)
  • Some of Logic's core aspects are that it is immaterial, omnipresent, eternal, and unchanging.
  • But here's the thing: These laws have to come from somewhere, they can't just exist as they are arbitrarily, (true arbitrariness is impossible). So there must be a sourceof these laws.
    • (A good analogy would be that you cannot have laws without a Law-giver.)
So what is the source of these laws?
  • It must be something that has all of the aspects of Logic to actually be it's source.
  • It also must be the source of its own nature. It cannot be anything that is pre-programmed, as that would require yet another source.
  • So therefore, the source must be Intelligent, (Have a mind), in order to be the source of it's own nature, and it's own self. Any other thing would not be the source of it's own self.
With all this together, it's therefore true that there must be an intelligent Ultimate Source with all these aspects.

The God of the Bible has all of these attributes, therefore He must exist.



Now what about His Word, how can we know what is His Word and what isn't.

The answer comes back again to knowledge. We need to have revelation from this Ultimate Source in order to know anything.
God has already "revealed" to everyone the Laws of Logic, that's why everyone knows them, but you likely don't have a memory of God actually telling you these laws, because they are installed in you.

We therefore know that God has to reveal knowledge to us in order for knowledge to be possible. And since knowledge is possible, we know that there must be revelation from God.

How can we find this revelation?

By searching for the Preconditions of Intelligibility
These are everything that must be revealed to us in order to have knowledge. So therefore, God's Word will have these.
Here are the fundamental ones:
  • About God:
    • Exists; Is true
    • Eternal
    • Omnipresent
    • Omnipotent
    • Omniscient
    • Source of Knowledge and Truth
    • Cannot deny himself (Non-contradictory)
    • Cannot lie (reliable source of information)
    • Non-arbitrary
    • Unchanging
    • Immaterial
    • Is the Highest
    • God is love
    • God protects knowledge, (and ruins false words)
  • Man's abilities:
    • We can know God
    • We can know all His Revelation
    • God gives us knowledge
    • He has given revelation since the beginning
    • We can remember His words
    • Our minds are capable of understanding
    • We can know truth with certainty
    • We are to love
  • Mark of Authorship
    • Claim that the Word is from God.
Every single one of these are in the Bible, therefore, the Bible is the Word of God.

What's also really great about this is that once you have found this, then you know that the Bible is the Word of God.
There's no need for comparison between religions, because if you need to compare, then you could never know if anything was God's Word, (for example, you could never know if there was another religion out there). It would therefore make knowledge impossible, which is not true.

There are more things to this part of the proof that you can get through by the following truth:
  • Does this possible situation result in knowledge being impossible?
    • If yes, then that "possible" situation is actually impossible.
  • (For example: It's impossible for part of his revelation to be knowable, but not other parts. (How do we know which parts are knowable then?))

This proof is about TAG, the Transcendental Argument for (the existence of) God. It's a conclusive and sound proof.

We aren't really allowed to link to other websites, but you can find more information about this from the following places:

Answers in Genesis ministry, (they have a website (.org))
Biblical Science Institute, (also a website (.com))
Jason Lisle, (a blog from a very knowledgeable proponent of TAG (.com))
Reformed, (another TAG-related apologetics website (.org))

In all, God is central. If one truly follows logic, it's locks one into the Truth of God.
Unbelievers require God to function, but yet they deny Him. No one is truly an atheist at their core.



I understand that your issues are more emotional in nature. Although I don't want this post to be very very long, think about the following:
  • Every human is a sinner against an infinitely righteous God, and therefore deserves eternal punishment.
  • Although God is just, He is also merciful and loving.
  • He has therefore provided a way out of the eternal punishment for us because He loves us.
  • But He has also fulfilled his just nature by Jesus's Sacrifice, where He became the Substitute for our sins.
  • Through this, everyone can be made righteous again, and therefore be with God.
  • For us who choose Jesus and believe, death is when we leave the world and come to be with God.
  • For those who reject Jesus and His Sacrifice, death is the end of the possibility to be with God.
God has the full right to bring a believer to Him by death, and He has the full right to let people reap their chosen destruction. He doesn't force anyone to choose Him because He loves us, but He nevertheless wants everyone to choose Him.

Without God, how can one say that anything is wrong? It's really easy to see things only from your own or from the World's perspective, but we don't always see God's perspective on things. We therefore don't know everything about every situation, but He does and is ultimately in control. Trust in Him.
 

DanLMP

Well-Known Member
The answer comes back again to knowledge. We need to have revelation from this Ultimate Source in order to know anything.
God has already "revealed" to everyone the Laws of Logic, that's why everyone knows them, but you likely don't have a memory of God actually telling you these laws, because they are installed in you.
The first case of really useful "bloatware".
 

DanLMP

Well-Known Member
There is an irrefutable way to prove that God exists and that the Bible is His Word. It requires pure logic, without the need for external knowledge such as scientific facts. It really changes your perspective on things when you realize it, but it is nonetheless true.
That's good stuff. I use a different apologetic that utilizes a logical progression to determine the characteristics of God based on an understanding of the beings He created, us.

Did anybody anywhere write a book on that apologetic?
 

Moonlight

Thoroughly depressed and waiting for the trumpet
That's good stuff. I use a different apologetic that utilizes a logical progression to determine the characteristics of God based on an understanding of the beings He created, us.

Did anybody anywhere write a book on that apologetic?
If you mean the apologetic I posted, then there is a book titled: "The Ultimate Proof of Creation" by Jason Lisle.
It presents the same kind of argument.
 

ldonjohn

"God said it, that settles it!"
Danielson, I just found this thread and would like to add my 2¢ worth.
Many years ago I was struggling with doubts about the existence of God and about the truth of the bible. I won't repeat the whole store here. If you would like to read my testimony I have listed the link below.
This scripture, Jeremiah 29:13, “And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart” says that if you earnestly search after God you will find Him, and although I knew nothing about that scripture, that is what I was doing.
Finding the truth about God & Jesus was more important to me that anything else in my life at that time.
The link to my testimony is below if you are interested.
Below are links to 3 other sermons/articles that might be of interest to you.​
1. How to Come to Jesus, by Dr. John R Rice

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=10522

2. What Must I do to be Saved, by Dr. John R Rice

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=10572

3.The devil has entered me

https://krowtracts.com/tracts/391.html

Don/John
 
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