If/Why? Sabbath

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Chris

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As a general rule, the person you are trying to teach decides whether a question has been answered adequately or not.
If they are trying to learn. If not, nothing you ever tell them will satisfy them. Especially if they have a preconceived idea about the matter. There are no contradictions in the Bible. The fault is in the reader's mind, not in God's Word. It's not our job to teach, that belongs to the Holy Spirit. Perhaps you should ask Him to help you and see what He says since none of the answers here satisfy you. :idunno

The only other thing I can suggest is to put in Google the verses that are in question along with the keyword "contradiction" and see if someone has raised the same question and come to an in context answer. :idunno
 
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Lighthope

Member
If they are trying to learn.
Just because someone disagrees or finds inadequacy does not mean they are not trying to learn. I think anyone with educational experience will attest to that. But I don't want to derail the thread as to what qualifies as good teaching. That is best left as the subject of another thread.

There are no contradictions in the Bible. The fault is in the reader's mind, not in God's Word.
That is absolutely not true. Even a cursory reading of the Bible testifies against that. There are entire books dedicated to the subject. Most contradictions are the fault of copyist errors, inadequacy of language, etc.

There are, however, other contradictions that are the result of lack of understanding. Such is the subject of this thread.

It's not our job to teach, that belongs to the Holy Spirit.
True, but learn what the scripture says. "So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers..." and "Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,"
 

Chris

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That is absolutely not true.
Oh it most certainly is. The problem is not with the Bible, it is with your understanding of the Bible. :nod

2 Timothy 3:16 - "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

Even a cursory reading of the Bible testifies against that. There are entire books dedicated to the subject. Most contradictions are the fault of copyist errors, inadequacy of language, etc.

There are, however, other contradictions that are the result of lack of understanding. Such is the subject of this thread.
So, you think the Bible has contradictions in it? :scratch

Are you a Christian? I'm just trying to understand what position you are coming from.
 
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Chris

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If Jesus had the right of it (Sabbath made for man, not man for the Sabbath)
Oh Jesus had it right. It's your understanding that is wrong. :nod

Then why did God in the OT simply not say that in the first place?
God can do as He pleases. He tells us what we need to know, not necessarily what we want to know. Who are we to question Him? :scratch Is the creation to question the Creator? The clay to question the potter? :scratch

Why impose a penalty (death) which he really didn't mean?
Things done in the OT were just a shadow of things to come. For example, the temple sacrifices were to teach the Jews that God would send the ultimate sacrifice in Jesus the Lamb of God. The blood of lambs, goats, etc. do not take away sins. They only cover them temporarily. Jesus, the Lamb of God, takes away sins permanently. :nod

Again, the Bible is not wrong and there are no contradictions. The problem is with your understanding of the Bible. :nod

The OT was under the law. The NT is under grace thru faith.
 

Chris

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In Romans 14:5 Paul wrote, One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

And in Colossians 2:16 he said, Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

The Sabbath observance is the only Old Testament commandment that’s not repeated in the New. In fact Jesus went out of His way to violate the Sabbath Laws in public, even though as a Jew He was obligated the keep them. Yet God considered Him sinless.

In Hebrews 4 we’re told that the commandment to rest on the Sabbath was intended as a model of the believer’s life long sabbath rest, where we stop working for our salvation after we’ve accepted the Lord’s gift of pardon.

The Jews keep a Saturday Sabbath. The early Church began meeting on Sunday to commemorate the Lord’s resurrection. The verses above say it doesn’t matter which day you choose as long as you’re convinced it’s the right thing to do.

https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/the-sabbath-rest/
 

Chris

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In a sense, according to Paul, you are free to do all those things because “Everything is permissible”–but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible”–but not everything is constructive.(1 Cor. 10:23). None of your sins are unknown to the Lord and His death paid for every one. Of course you should expect to pay the earthly consequences for such behavior, but confession will bring forgiveness in Heaven.

What’s external and physical in the Old Testament often becomes internal and spiritual in the New, and the Sabbath is a good example. (His warning that anger is akin to murder and lust is as bad as adultery are others.) The Sabbath was given to commemorate the fact that God finished His work on the 6th day and rested on the 7th. He blessed the Sabbath and made it Holy. No work could be done on that day, but in fact God’s creative work was done forever. A Sabbath breaker was put to death in Numbers 15:32-36 to make the point that working on the Sabbath brought death.

Now comes the New Testament. As an observant Jew, Jesus kept the Sabbath. But He also went out of His way to perform miracles of healing on the Sabbath which was against the Law. And yet He never sinned. This was to prove to us that the real meaning of the Sabbath was internal and spiritual and is why He said that the Sabbath was made for man. As I said in my answer, there are good emotional, spiritual and physical reasons to rest one day in seven. And the Bible does encourage us toward regular Church attendance for the reasons I gave.

But here’s the whole point. When you were saved, you became a new creation and the work of your salvation was finished forever. (2 Cor 5:17) As Hebrews 4 explains, you entered a life long Sabbath Rest at that time. Any further work to earn or maintain your salvation will bring death because it will prove that you don’t really believe that the Lord’s completed work was sufficient. So remember your Sabbath Rest and keep it Holy by doing no further work and you’ll be keeping the commandment.

That’s why aside from Jesus flagrantly violating Sabbath Laws and getting away with it, there’s no big deal about the Sabbath in the New Testament except for that one chapter in Hebrews 4.

As for Biblical evidence that it was changed to Sunday, Paul referred to Sunday services in 1 Cor. 16:2, and here’s what he had to say about the Sabbath in Colossians 2:17-18. Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. Both these letters were written within 25 years of the Resurrection.

Finally, here’s a word of warning against venturing into any sort of legalism, no matter how slight. If you’re going to keep one part of the Law, you’d better make sure you’re keeping it all, because anyone who keeps the Law but stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. (James 2:10) In my opinion, dogmatically insisting on a Friday night to Saturday night Sabbath is a dangerous flirtation with legalism.

https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/keeping-the-sabbath/
 

Steve53

Well-Known Member
As a general rule, the person you are trying to teach decides whether a question has been answered adequately or not.
If you had asked us for the sum of 2 plus 2 and we told you, "4," whether or not you decide we've answered "adequately" won't change our answer no matter how many times you re-phrase the question.

Your topic doesn't lend itself to a subjective answer simply because the answer itself is objective. Make sense?

In this case, we quoted what Jesus gave as His answer: "...the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath." And we went out of our way to provide supporting information from recognized Bible teachers, and also provided supporting Scripture verses that explained the temporal and spiritual reasons why Christ remained sinless while healing the sick on the Sabbath.

What else can we say?

In what manner has your question not been sufficiently answered?
:) At this hour, that's our question to you.:) In what way are our answers not fully adequate?

We had also asked you directly why the question arose in the first place (merely to help us understand your viewpoint.) Are we to ascertain from your latest replies that you asked because you believe God contradicted Himself? (That's a yes or no question, and again, it helps us with determining your viewpoint.)

Some of us here are Shepherds of the Flock. Others are Watchers on the wall. Some of us here are Preachers, some, Teachers; and the list goes on... The one common denominator amongst us all is that we're Brothers and Sisters in Christ.

We also have asked you to introduce yourself to us. We're still waiting. We'd like to get to know you better - we'd like to get to know you, and the perspective you bring to our fellowship so that hopefully, we can better help with your understanding.

We've asked if you are a Christian. We've asked you, in essence, to share your testimony with us, to tell us who Jesus is to you - personally. We truly love to hear salvation stories about how it is Christ found a place in the heart of another. In reviewing this thread, it seems thus far to me anyway, that you've studiously avoided the question.
 

TheRedeemed

Well-Known Member
Anyone who claims the Bible is corrupt, errant, contradictory or not from God himself, is well lost.

If Jesus did break the sabbath as proscribed by God then He would not have resurrected as He would have broken the law and failed in His mission, so there is your answer, He did not break God's sabbath. He broke the pharisees sabbath. So, He may very well have broken it according to the pharisees and Sanhedrin who falsely and viciously added to the law their own interpretation of what doing 'no work' actually meant.

Jesus healed and performed miracles on the sabbath as this was God, his Father's business, He was going about. The whole sabbath day off was for the Jews to contemplate God, thank Him, pray to Him and honour Him and not be bothered about the normal minutiae of their everyday lives. It was not there to stop them rescuing a child or animal in danger or attending to some other disaster that may have happened on a sabbath day. So, if they were allowed to do these things, then Jesus was certainly allowed to perform His miracles, heal the sick and be in public praising God.

On the law, if you're not a Jew and brought up under the law from birth, then I'm afraid that by the time you start observing the law in order to get your salvation, well then it's already too late, as you will have broken several parts of it before you even started!

The Jews today want their temple back to perform animal sacrifices again. Why is that? It's because they have all broken the law and need to make atonement for their sin, while waiting for the Messiah to come.

So they know they have broken the law. In fact everyone has broken the law, the law will not save you nor any other person on Earth, rather it will condemn you instead. As if you break one law, you have broken all of it, and from that position there is no recovery except Christ and the cross.
 
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Andy C

Well-Known Member
After reading this entire thread, my brain hurts. The wisdom on this board, and the tolerance has been throughly displayed on this thread. Excellent answers were provided.

As a somewhat side note - How can a Christian who studies the bible, believe there are contradictions in Gods Word? Plus, who cares if there are lots of books on the subject of contradictions, the only book that counts is Gods Bible.
 

Kaatje

Well-Known Member
Me too, I have reread all the posts, and came to the conclusion,
that I don’t understand the question behind the question.

Was it just to try us out? Or even challenge us to start doubting?
I want to give LightHope the benefit of the doubt,
but since he doesn’t give any background to himself or his question,
I start to wonder if he is genuine.
 

Erin

Well-Known Member
Me too, I have reread all the posts, and came to the conclusion,
that I don’t understand the question behind the question.

Was it just to try us out? Or even challenge us to start doubting?
I want to give LightHope the benefit of the doubt,
but since he doesn’t give any background to himself or his question,
I start to wonder if he is genuine.
:feedback...........yes, Lighthope tell us just a little about yourself, please. As being autistic I am used to not understanding things but you seem to be talking in circles to me....give us a little background tell us where your coming from, it might help.:)
 

Mary Cole

Well-Known Member
I think maybe God's definition of what constituted "work" and the pharisees' and sadducees' definition might have been very different. I think they embellished God's command, to make things harder and more legalistic than what was intended. There's a difference between resting on the Sabbath and not working to earn a wage when one should be focused on His relationship with God; versus the legalistic view that you couldn't even rescue your farm animal if it fell in a well and became endangered on a Sabbath day.
 

Chris

Administrator
Staff member
I think maybe God's definition of what constituted "work" and the pharisees' and sadducees' definition might have been very different. I think they embellished God's command, to make things harder and more legalistic than what was intended. There's a difference between resting on the Sabbath and not working to earn a wage when one should be focused on His relationship with God; versus the legalistic view that you couldn't even rescue your farm animal if it fell in a well and became endangered on a Sabbath day.
I think Matthew 23 talks a lot about this. Straining gnats and swallowing camels comes to mind. :nod
 
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