If/Why? Sabbath

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Work4Peanuts

I like being just a Well-Known Member
I can not accept this. Jesus kept all of God's laws, including the Sabbath, perfectly. What He didn't do was follow men's traditions (Pharisees) regarding God's laws, and that had them bent out of shape.

To reiterate what Jan said: The law is the law. Any infraction against God's law is rebellion and the penalty is death, not just for keeping the Sabbath (Romans 6:23).

If
we were able to save ourselves, we would have to keep the law perfectly, every day of our life until death, both inwardly and outwardly. If we could do that, Jesus could have skipped the cross. We can't. Paul discusses this in Galatians. We do not depend on our abilities to keep the law for salvation. Christians are justified by grace through faith, not the perfection of our works. The law is not abolished by Christ. The law is fulfilled. But if someone does not accept Christ's gift of salvation, the law is very much still in effect, and they will be held accountable for any infraction of it, because being under the law is a curse. (Galatians 3)

So, taking another example from the ten commandments, if a Christian commits murder, does that Christian become unsaved? No, because he has freedom from the law, and nothing can separate us from the love of God (Romans 8:39). Should a Christian commit murder? I think we all know the answer to that. (Romans 6)
 

Lighthope

Member
I think I can see Lighthopes question.
Everyone is responding with a description of the significance of the Sabbath day and the fact that we now rest in our Sabbath.
But I think, to rephrase Lighthopes question, I hope correctly, is when did the change occur in the prohibition of working on the Sabbath so that Jesus was justified in breaking the Sabbath?
Almost, but mega cheers for your discernment. So many were responding with "religious" answers (for lack of a better word), skipping over or not understanding the basic underlying question.

Let me try to rephrase:

If Jesus had the right of it (Sabbath made for man, not man for the Sabbath), then why did God in the OT simply not say that in the first place? Why impose a penalty (death) which he really didn't mean?

My answer to that question, which is not based on scripture but is simply a possible answer, is that Jesus was justified because He represented the Sabbath rest and as our Sabbath rest the work prohibition didn't apply to Him.
That is a wonderfully direct answer to a direct question. Again, mega cheers!

It doesn't actually address the main question. (I wasn't asking about Jesus breaking the Sabbath.) But that is the type of answer I am looking for.
 

Jan51

Well-Known Member
Let me try to rephrase:

If Jesus had the right of it (Sabbath made for man, not man for the Sabbath), then why did God in the OT simply not say that in the first place? Why impose a penalty (death) which he really didn't mean?
Jesus had it right.
God did not say it that way in the Old Testament. He said it the way He wanted to. He would reveal more later.
He imposed a penalty He did mean and did enforce.
Jesus did not break the Sabbath--He fulfilled the entire Law, and He Himself WAS and IS the Sabbath rest pictured in the OT.
Since Jesus' day, breaking the Sabbath is no longer an issue or a capital crime, because it has been fulfilled. The fourth commandment is the only one Jesus did not repeat, did not teach. We are no longer to point to the creation but we are to look to the resurrected Jesus.
But people will still experience death (eternal) for failing to rest in God's Sabbath rest: Jesus Christ.
The answers given are not "religious," but are biblical teaching of the Sabbath: correct doctrine.

How much more mega-simple can it be said?
The Pharisees didn't get it either.
 

Work4Peanuts

I like being just a Well-Known Member
...why did God proscribe such a harsh penalty (death) for breaking it?..
People are responding to your question. The reason for immediate death would be to emphasize how important the future Messiah's work would be, but the penalty of any disobedience to God's laws is death. The wages of sin is death. Why so harsh? Because all sin is rebellion to God. Even "minor" rebellions.

That hasn't changed. What has changed is:
1. the way the Sabbath is observed (through Jesus work on the cross becoming our Sabbath rest)
and
2. Jesus' sacrifice is completed work, so there is no need to routinely offer animal sacrifices for the remission of sins.

Instead of looking forward in faith, we look backward.
 

mattfivefour

Administrator
Staff member
God did not reveal His plan for man all at once. He did promise the end result: namely deliverance from the Fall and restoration to fellowship with Him, but He did not reveal how. Instead, the method He would use He revealed in various ways and through various people over a period of a couple thousand years. I suppose in this way, we cannot mistake the message of God as having come from the fertile mind of some religious man but from God Himself, as no human being or group of human beings could weave such a cohesive message through bits and pieces (all of them remarkably detailed and 100% accurate) through the pens of a couple dozen men, few of whom were even aware of the others, living in different cultures, in different locations, over a period of more than a millennium. But when you put the pieces together, things that seemed to be random actually can be seen to fit perfectly into the overall picture.

The reference to the Rock Moses struck twice as being a type (or picture, if you will) of Christ is not our interpretation: the Bible says it point blank. The tabernacle in all its details, materials, fittings, and ornaments is a perfect picture of Christ and of salvation. Each one of the Levitical sacrifices is a perfect picture of one aspect of what Christ accomplished in His own substitutionary sacrifice. Every single act of God was foreshadowed in some way by Him. And it is into that context that the Sabbath must be placed ... and Christ's own words about it.

First of all, the statement of Jesus that the Sabbath was made for man has two meanings. The first meaning is that in the Sabbath God gave man a guaranteed day of rest in which to physically recharge while spiritually recharging by spending the day in contemplation of God (since the man or woman was not preoccupied on that day with all-consuming worldly duties.) In this way it was a gift from God to man ... at the physical and the spiritual levels. The second meaning was that the Sabbath was given to picture the rest that humans would find in Christ-- ceasing entirely from their own works and resting entirely in His. This is God's greatest gift to man of all.

As to the death penalty assessed on all who broke the OT Sabbath, that same penalty was exacted on all who broke any of God's great commandments. The message there being that sinning inevitably results in death and man could not save himself.

Does this help at all?
 

Steve53

Well-Known Member
Personally, I like the ESV version, and the meaning is clear to me.

Mark 2:23-28
One Sabbath he was going through the grainfields, and as they made their way, his disciples began to pluck heads of grain. And the Pharisees were saying to him, “Look, why are they doing what is not lawful on the Sabbath?” And he said to them, “Have you never read what David did, when he was in need and was hungry, he and those who were with him: how he entered the house of God, in the time of Abiathar the high priest, and ate the bread of the Presence, which it is not lawful for any but the priests to eat, and also gave it to those who were with him?” And he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath.”

The Lawgiver Himself, Christ, fulfilled the Law.
___________________________________________

Please do introduce yourself, Lighthope.

I'd also like to hear about how it is this particular question occurred to you?
 

DanLMP

Well-Known Member
Here's a question that needs to be asked.
Why do you want to know?

The default position that I always use is:
God can do no wrong. Jesus can do no wrong.
If they could our own goose would be cooked, to put it politely.
There is a logical argument for why this is true.

So when I'm faced with a question that doesn't seem to have a sufficient answer my go to response is "for good and sufficient reason".

I realize when those situations occur it's not really satisfying not to have an answer.
That's when that faith and trust in God is supposed to kick in.
 

Brother Albert R.

Well-Known Member
Not even close, though I do appreciate the effort you took to reply.

Your post correctly took on the authority God has in imposing the penalty he did.

My question, which still remains unanswered despite the well-meaning intentions of the posters, is why did God impose such a penalty if Jesus dismisses it by reason of Sabbath made for Man not Man made for Sabbath?
The answer may be summed up, "The wages of sin is death". God has throughout the old and new testament shown how He may have someone put to death because of their disobedience as in Acts 5:5,10. Jesus said this about death, Matt.10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. God is the only being who has the right to make examples out of anyone He wishes as a warning to the rest.
I hope this helps,
Brother ALbert
My post is very similar to work4peanuts...because great minds think alike, especially when they think scripturally.:rabbi
 
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Lighthope

Member
Jesus had it right.
God did not say it that way in the Old Testament. He said it the way He wanted to. He would reveal more later.
He imposed a penalty He did mean and did enforce.
Jesus did not break the Sabbath
Of course he did. That is why the Pharisees were so upset. If he hadn't broken the Sabbath, no one would have had a problem.

--He fulfilled the entire Law, and He Himself WAS and IS the Sabbath rest pictured in the OT.
Since Jesus' day, breaking the Sabbath is no longer an issue or a capital crime, because it has been fulfilled.
Now that is an answer. Not one I am terribly comfortable with or even maybe agree with, but at least it is an answer.
 

Lighthope

Member
The reference to the Rock Moses struck twice as being a type (or picture, if you will) of Christ is not our interpretation: the Bible says it point blank.
Can you give me chapter and verse on that? I am not recalling it. Not the event, but your interpretation.

First of all, the statement of Jesus that the Sabbath was made for man has two meanings. The first meaning is that in the Sabbath God gave man a guaranteed day of rest in which to physically recharge while spiritually recharging by spending the day in contemplation of God (since the man or woman was not preoccupied on that day with all-consuming worldly duties.) In this way it was a gift from God to man ... at the physical and the spiritual levels. The second meaning was that the Sabbath was given to picture the rest that humans would find in Christ-- ceasing entirely from their own works and resting entirely in His. This is God's greatest gift to man of all.

As to the death penalty assessed on all who broke the OT Sabbath, that same penalty was exacted on all who broke any of God's great commandments. The message there being that sinning inevitably results in death and man could not save himself.

Does this help at all?
No. It still did not address my question, but I greatly appreciate your response.
 

Lighthope

Member
Here's a question that needs to be asked.
Why do you want to know?
Because it appears to be a contradition.

The default position that I always use is:
God can do no wrong. Jesus can do no wrong.
If they could our own goose would be cooked, to put it politely.
There is a logical argument for why this is true.

So when I'm faced with a question that doesn't seem to have a sufficient answer my go to response is "for good and sufficient reason".

I realize when those situations occur it's not really satisfying not to have an answer.
That's when that faith and trust in God is supposed to kick in.
Oh, I hope you are not interpreting my inquiry as a challenge to God. That "He Must Be Wrong!".

I am always of the position that, if I don't understand something, the deficiency is mine.

In no sense am I trying to "catch" God in an error. I simply have a lack of understand in this matter and am looking to be edified.
 
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