If/Why? Sabbath

Discussion in 'Apologetics' started by Lighthope, Jan 10, 2019.

  1. Lighthope

    Lighthope Member

    If the Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath, why did God proscribe such a harsh penalty (death) for breaking it? If memory serves, wasn't someone put to death for simply carrying a load of wood during the Sabbath?
  2. mattfivefour

    mattfivefour Administrator Staff Member

    The Sabbath was a prophetic picture of man's rest in Christ. Therefore there could be no work done on it. Further—and I covered this territory in an article on RF a couple years back (https://www.raptureforums.com/forum...o-sabbath-keepers.123368/#post-842491068)—the only other prohibition was against a fire being kindled in the house on the Sabbath. And that is because fire speaks of judgment and in the Christian rest there is no judgment. The punishment by death of a Sabbath breaker confirms the significance and importance that God placed on the Sabbath. Men obeyed the Law because God gave it, but they did not really understand it until its purpose was fully revealed through the writer of Hebrews (Hebrews 4:1-11).
  3. Lighthope

    Lighthope Member

    The prohibition was that no work at all could be done. You even mention that at the beginning of your reply.

    So then why did Jesus say what he said about it? Either it is important enough to be worthy of death for breaking it or it is intended to be more symbolic and death is not worthy of breaking it.
  4. Kaatje

    Kaatje Well-Known Member

    Jesus All the laws of the Torah, but He didn’t adhere to the man-made laws of the Pharizees.

    Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
    For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Matt. 5)

    Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, "Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don't wash their hands before they eat!" Jesus replied, "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, `Honor your father and mother' and `Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.' But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, `Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,' he is not to `honor his father ' with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:"`These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'" (Matt. 15)
    athenasius likes this.
  5. Lighthope

    Lighthope Member

    Cheers for the reply, but it did not address the question.

    The Pharisees did not come up with the Sabbath law or its consequence. God did.

    The Pharisees would come up with something like "Carrying a load of wood 15 feet is not work, but carrying a load of wood 16 feet is work and forbidden."

    They were a fun bunch. lol

    Tall Timbers likes this.
  6. Everlasting Life

    Everlasting Life Through Faith in Jesus

    Hi Lighthope, :)

    I would really recommend reading that other thread Mattfivefour referenced. I think it will help answer some questions for you.

    Think about this, if the sabbath is a type, pointing to the rest in Christ, which is through faith in His work for us, then what is the consequences of one who does not put their faith in Jesus Christ?

    For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom 6:23

    So, in line with the type (the sabbath pointing to resting in Jesus Christ) those who didn't enter into that rest died.

    Types are so serious and important that when Moses struck the rock twice in the desert for water to quench the Israelite's thirst, God did not let Moses enter the promised land (but did go to be with God when he died). For the rock was also a type of Jesus Christ, who was only struck once in death (not twice) and in His resurrection brought life to many. Types of Jesus Christ that pointed to a future reality, Jesus Christ, was very important to God.

    Does that make more sense?
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  7. Lighthope

    Lighthope Member

    I don't want to derail the thread by getting in depth into mattfivefour's article. So suffice it to say that it did not address the question I asked in the OP.

    So then why did not Jesus condemn the person who did not keep the Sabbath, since he did not "put [his] faith in Jesus Christ" by not observing the Sabbath?

    Everyone seems to keep avoiding the direct question that I asked.

    I have to admit, I find that to be a gymnastic-type stretch. Sometimes a rock is just a rock. But again, off topic.
  8. mattfivefour

    mattfivefour Administrator Staff Member

    Respectfully, that is not off-topic. It is the essence of the answer to your question ... an answer you just don't seem to be grasping. Clearly we are failing. I pray we can somehow find a way to communicate God's Truth on this topic to you more effectively
  9. Jan51

    Jan51 Well-Known Member

    I don't see what your first phrase has to do with your first question. Nor does your second question really have any bearing on your first question.

    Keeping the Sabbath was one of the ten commandments, Exo. 20:8-11. 11 tells why. In the Old Testament, God's defining act was creation (in the New Testament, His defining act is the resurrection, which is why we worship on the first day of the week, not the seventh). The Sabbath day was to be a constant reminder to them of who their God is--the God who created heaven and earth (as set apart from the many pagan "gods" around them). They were to rest from their works on the seventh day as God rested on the seventh day from His work of creation--as in the church age, we rest from our good works, being saved instead by faith alone, in Christ, who is our Sabbath rest, Heb. 4:1-10.

    Israel was commanded to keep ALL the Law. Breaking many of those laws resulted in the death penalty. How they broke the Law had nothing to do with it, whether it was through carrying wood or any other way. God is not like us; He doesn't say, oh well, that thing that guy just did was not such a big hairy deal, so I will just overlook or wink at that. No, laws are laws, death penalty is death penalty, sin is sin. One of the purposes of the Law was to teach this to Israel, and to us.

    If "simply carrying a load of wood during the Sabbath" wasn't really bad enough to result in death, then by the same logic, it shouldn't have been such a big deal that Korah the Levite offered incense like the Levitical priests did. After all, God did want incense offered, and he WAS a leader in the tribe of Levi, so why shouldn't others besides the priests be able to offer incense? This was Korah's logic. God did not see it that way, Num. 16:1-33. God says, obey. Not, kind of. Not, just some of the Law. Obey.

    Likewise, many "good" people will go to hell--people who did not obey God and believe on Jesus Christ. Is that unfair, or out of proportion to the sin? This is the way many people think. God has told us otherwise. It is His world. He makes the rules. He sets the penalty. He has laid it out clearly for us. Obey.

    Does that answer your questions?
  10. mattfivefour

    mattfivefour Administrator Staff Member

    Excellent, Jan.
  11. chaser

    chaser Well-Known Member

    This brings to mind a story from the Old Testament but I can not recall exactly where it is anyway the Israelites were moving the Arc of the Covenant and they were given strict rules of how it was to be done and handled. Long story short the Arc slipped and a man tried to stop it and when he touched it he died. I thought wow that was horrible, but going back and reading what led up to that incident, they were not handing the Arc the way God said to, and He told them if anyone touches it they would die, similar to a story in the garden comes to mind.
  12. Lighthope

    Lighthope Member

    Not even close, though I do appreciate the effort you took to reply.

    Your post correctly took on the authority God has in imposing the penalty he did.

    My question, which still remains unanswered despite the well-meaning intentions of the posters, is why did God impose such a penalty if Jesus dismisses it by reason of Sabbath made for Man not Man made for Sabbath?
  13. Lighthope

    Lighthope Member

    If I recall correctly, David was pretty upset over that incident. I may be misremembering it, though.
  14. chaser

    chaser Well-Known Member

    This is from Jack Kelley
    The Sabbath
    The Sabbath was a day of rest, a holy day. God had labored for six days in the Creation. On the seventh day the work of creation was finished and He rested (Genesis 2:2-3). In memorial, He commanded the Israelites to do the same (Exodus 20:8-11). Anyone caught working on the Sabbath was to suffer physical death (Numbers 15:32-36). External, physical, national behavior.

    But Jesus worked on the Sabbath (John 8:14-16), and Paul wrote that while some consider one day to be more sacred than another, others consider every day to be alike. He said each one should be fully convinced in his own mind (Romans 14:5). Had the Sabbath become optional?

    Then the writer of Hebrews explained that the Sabbath Law was symbolic of the rest a believer enters upon being saved. Just as the Lord rested when the work of creation was done, we are to rest in the Lord when we’re saved because as soon as we accept the pardon He purchased for us the work of salvation is done. We’re a new creation (Hebrews 4:9-11, 2 Cor. 5:17). Internal, spiritual, personal belief.

    Those who continue to work to either earn or keep their salvation are saying they aren’t really saved yet. In effect they’re relying on their own work and are not resting in the Lord’s completed work on their behalf. Since their work can never be sufficient they will be scheduled for spiritual death.

  15. Steve53

    Steve53 Well-Known Member

    By the way, Lighthope, welcome to rapture forums!

    Please do visit our new member sub forum and tell us about yourself and who Jesus is to you.

    We love to hear how folks came to Christ!
  16. Kaatje

    Kaatje Well-Known Member

    Dear Lighthope,
    Since the answers given, don’t seem to convince you,
    I am really interested to know how you, yourself answer this question?
  17. Jan51

    Jan51 Well-Known Member

    I do not see Jesus' answer as "dismissing" the importance of the Sabbath at all. God made a day of rest for man to observe, for the reasons I gave.
  18. DanLMP

    DanLMP Well-Known Member

    I think I can see Lighthopes question.
    Everyone is responding with a description of the significance of the Sabbath day and the fact that we now rest in our Sabbath.
    But I think, to rephrase Lighthopes question, I hope correctly, is when did the change occur in the prohibition of working on the Sabbath so that Jesus was justified in breaking the Sabbath?

    My answer to that question, which is not based on scripture but is simply a possible answer, is that Jesus was justified because He represented the Sabbath rest and as our Sabbath rest the work prohibition didn't apply to Him.


    Just the presence of Jesus in history at that time created our Sabbath rest both for us and for Him.

    We should ask the Holy Spirit for guidance on this one.
    athenasius and GoldenEagle like this.

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