If our sins are paid for, why do we need to confess?

[Pat]

WHAT mATTERS? If our sins are paid for, why do we need to confess?​

There are two kinds of forgiveness with God. Judicial forgiveness and parental forgiveness. Judicial, or legal forgiveness was procured for all mankind when the perfect man Jesus, was made to be sin on the cross, died the death that the wages of sin requires, and was buried to become the Savior of the world. Here is what scripture says, “For He hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin.” 2 Cor.5:21 “For the wages of sin is death.” Rom. 6:23 “…we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, specially of those that believe.” 1 Tim. 4:10 Judicially and legally the sin debt required by God’s law has been paid by the death of the Savior on the cross. Christians and non-Christians alike have their sins paid for. The difference between us is that we as believers in His death, burial, and resurrection, have been given the resurrected life of the Lord Jesus, having been “born again.” But they, in unbelief have not submitted to the resurrected Lord and are yet dead in their trespasses and sins. The debt is paid, but they will not believe it, and belief is the only way to receive its benefits.

Parental forgiveness is given to those who have been made a child of God, who have believed Him, who are now members of God’s family as Christians. We have acknowledged our need to be saved (having repented or turned towards God’s way of thinking) and have submitted self-lordship of our lives to the only worthy one–the risen LORD Jesus. Because of our new relationship with God as His child, He desires fellowship with us. Sin breaks that fellowship with God. Therefore, He says in 1 John 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” To confess literally means “to say the same thing as, or to agree with.” The Holy Spirit is the one we are to agree with. He reveals the thought or act we have done as sin. We agree with Him by calling it what He calls it, and God restores us to fellowship with Him. The sins we now commit receive corrective discipline, not punitive punishment.

Some would have us believe that this doctrine leads to immoral behavior and freedom to sin. Rather, 1 John 2:1 gives us clarity, “My little children, these things write I unto you, that you sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” What matters is that we come to God in prayer. (See Heb. 4:12-16) Acknowledge that all our sins have been paid for at the cross. Agree with God concerning our failure in the flesh (called sin) as convicted by the Holy Spirit. By faith, we thank Him for His forgiveness and cleansing from all unrighteousness according to the promise of 1 John 1:9. We then endeavor to remember to, “Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.” Gal.5:16

 

[Set free 47]

I have wondered why this is only mentioned in 1 John 1:9. You will not find this believers' confession and subsequent forgiveness of sins ever mentioned by Paul or the other Epistle writers from Acts thru Revelation. Most students of the Bible say that it not wise to hang an entire doctrine on one verse.
I agree Pat that we should agree with God, that is confess our sins when we sin as believers and turn from our sins; but I don't think this means asking God for something we already completely have and that is total forgiveness of all our sins that has already been given to us thru to the shed blood of Christ. I also don't think we necessarily receive "corrective discipline" as you say, every time we sin as long as we as believers are willing to turn from our sins and walk by the Spirit. I think God will allow discipline in our lives if we just keep on sinning and ignore His guidance. But God wants to lovingly guide us in the right direction, not punish us.

 

[Pat]

I have wondered why this is only mentioned in 1 John 1:9. You will not find this believers' confession and subsequent forgiveness of sins ever mentioned by Paul or the other Epistle writers from Acts thru Revelation. Most students of the Bible say that it not wise to hang an entire doctrine on one verse.
I agree Pat that we should agree with God, that is confess our sins when we sin as believers and turn from our sins; but I don't think this means asking God for something we already completely have and that is total forgiveness of all our sins that has already been given to us thru to the shed blood of Christ. I also don't think we necessarily receive "corrective discipline" as you say, every time we sin as long as we as believers are willing to turn from our sins and walk by the Spirit. I think God will allow discipline in our lives if we just keep on sinning and ignore His guidance. But God wants to lovingly guide us in the right direction, not punish us.

Good points and I don't disagree with you. However, the principle of acknowledgement of sins/wrongdoing and repentance and restoration is mentioned by both Jesus and Paul. Part of the Holy Spirit's job is to convict of sin (John 16:8) and as the body of Christ we are to be alert to sin in the body and judge those who continue to resist the conviction of the HS. (1 Cor. 5, Gal. 6:1 etc.) not overlook it. The problem with the Corinthian church was their "grace orientation" that over rode disciplining an errant brother. The same carelessness can happen to us individually if we aren't sensitive to the conviction of the HS. As to asking God for forgiveness, I again agree with you. But we aren't told to ask. We are told to confess, i.e., acknowledge and agree with the HS concerning our behavior. (Hold fast the profession of our faith), that the blood of Jesus has cleansed us from all unrighteousness. Lastly, I again agree with you, that most of the time, God's discipline is not in play until we repeatedly ignore the conviction of the HS and our hearts begin to harden. 1 John 1:9 is not a permission slip allowing God to forgive us and if we don't confess He won't. It is a reminder for us that we haven't been walking in fellowship with Him and we need to correct that behavior by acknowledging it as sin. If we don't the progression will be a totally hardened heart and we will be in danger of sinning unto physical death because of it as mentioned in 1 John 5 and John 15. Thanks for the insightful comments, blessings.

 

[Changeditall]

WHAT mATTERS? If our sins are paid for, why do we need to confess?​

There are two kinds of forgiveness with God. Judicial forgiveness and parental forgiveness. Judicial, or legal forgiveness was procured for all mankind when the perfect man Jesus, was made to be sin on the cross, died the death that the wages of sin requires, and was buried to become the Savior of the world. Here is what scripture says, “For He hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin.” 2 Cor.5:21 “For the wages of sin is death.” Rom. 6:23 “…we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, specially of those that believe.” 1 Tim. 4:10 Judicially and legally the sin debt required by God’s law has been paid by the death of the Savior on the cross. Christians and non-Christians alike have their sins paid for. The difference between us is that we as believers in His death, burial, and resurrection, have been given the resurrected life of the Lord Jesus, having been “born again.” But they, in unbelief have not submitted to the resurrected Lord and are yet dead in their trespasses and sins. The debt is paid, but they will not believe it, and belief is the only way to receive its benefits.

Parental forgiveness is given to those who have been made a child of God, who have believed Him, who are now members of God’s family as Christians. We have acknowledged our need to be saved (having repented or turned towards God’s way of thinking) and have submitted self-lordship of our lives to the only worthy one–the risen LORD Jesus. Because of our new relationship with God as His child, He desires fellowship with us. Sin breaks that fellowship with God. Therefore, He says in 1 John 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” To confess literally means “to say the same thing as, or to agree with.” The Holy Spirit is the one we are to agree with. He reveals the thought or act we have done as sin. We agree with Him by calling it what He calls it, and God restores us to fellowship with Him. The sins we now commit receive corrective discipline, not punitive punishment.

Some would have us believe that this doctrine leads to immoral behavior and freedom to sin. Rather, 1 John 2:1 gives us clarity, “My little children, these things write I unto you, that you sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” What matters is that we come to God in prayer. (See Heb. 4:12-16) Acknowledge that all our sins have been paid for at the cross. Agree with God concerning our failure in the flesh (called sin) as convicted by the Holy Spirit. By faith, we thank Him for His forgiveness and cleansing from all unrighteousness according to the promise of 1 John 1:9. We then endeavor to remember to, “Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.” Gal.5:16

Well said.

 

[Set free 47]

Well Pat, the fact is that Paul, who was sent by the ascended Lord Jesus Christ to proclaim the gospel of grace and salvation and guide believers in the doctrines of the church and grace, never tells the church, if they confess their sins, God is faithful and just to forgive their sins and cleanse them from all unrighteousness. Paul simply tells believers in the churches to avoid sins they have already been cleansed from, and he tells them how to avoid sin in various passages: he tells them to walk by the Spirit and not by the flesh. He tells them God has already taken all their sins away, why commit them again? As for Christ's teachings on sin in the Gospels,, this was given primarily to the Jews while still under the Law. where confession of sins was required.
Also, the NT writers never say that there is a dichotomy of two kinds of forgiveness from God: judicial forgiveness and parental forgiveness.

 

[Pat]

Well Pat, the fact is that Paul, who was sent by the ascended Lord Jesus Christ to proclaim the gospel of grace and salvation and guide believers in the doctrines of the church and grace, never tells the church, if they confess their sins, God is faithful and just to forgive their sins and cleanse them from all unrighteousness. Paul simply tells believers in the churches to avoid sins they have already been cleansed from, and he tells them how to avoid sin in various passages: he tells them to walk by the Spirit and not by the flesh. He tells them God has already taken all their sins away, why commit them again? As for Christ's teachings on sin in the Gospels,, this was given primarily to the Jews while still under the Law. where confession of sins was required.
Also, the NT writers never say that there is a dichotomy of two kinds of forgiveness from God: judicial forgiveness and parental forgiveness.

Again, though neither Jesus nor Paul spoke those 1 John 1:9 words, they both promoted the principle. A very good example is John 13:1-15.

Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end. And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him; Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God; He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself. After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded. Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet? Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter. Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me. Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all. For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean. So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you? Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am. If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.

We must look beyond the physical act of foot washing and understand He was speaking of forgiving one another. Once one is washed, or bodily cleansed or "bathed", (which speaks of total forgiveness by the work on the cross) he immediately gets his feet dirty as he walks (speaking of our daily walk as Christians), thus he has need of foot washing. Not as Peter said, to re-wash his whole body, Jesus told him he only needed his feet re-cleansed.
I'm not arguing with you that if we don't confess that we are not totally already forgiven. I'm saying 1 John 1:9 is akin to the foot washing above. We are already totally forgiven. The issue is fellowship with God. As John again said in 1 John1:6-7
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
We don't continue to walk in darkness. As much as we don't want to sin, we do anyway (Paul's struggle in Romans 7) so when we do sin, we don't look at it lightly as some do, but we call it what God calls it, believe we are cleansed by His blood and move on in fellowship with Him and the brethren.
Paul said in 1 Cor. 6:12 "All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any." He understood, what I call judicial forgiveness, that there was no sin that could annul his salvation. The penalty had been paid once for all (Heb. 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.) But he also knew that the living Word is what continually cleanses us as we hear it and obey it, and when we don't obey, we are convicted of it and acknowledge it so that we may be cleansed, or as I put it, be parent-aly forgiven. Ephesians 5:25-26 "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,"
I think we are on the same page, just looking at it from different angles. Blessings.

 

[Changeditall]

WHAT mATTERS? If our sins are paid for, why do we need to confess?​

There are two kinds of forgiveness with God. Judicial forgiveness and parental forgiveness. Judicial, or legal forgiveness was procured for all mankind when the perfect man Jesus, was made to be sin on the cross, died the death that the wages of sin requires, and was buried to become the Savior of the world. Here is what scripture says, “For He hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin.” 2 Cor.5:21 “For the wages of sin is death.” Rom. 6:23 “…we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, specially of those that believe.” 1 Tim. 4:10 Judicially and legally the sin debt required by God’s law has been paid by the death of the Savior on the cross. Christians and non-Christians alike have their sins paid for. The difference between us is that we as believers in His death, burial, and resurrection, have been given the resurrected life of the Lord Jesus, having been “born again.” But they, in unbelief have not submitted to the resurrected Lord and are yet dead in their trespasses and sins. The debt is paid, but they will not believe it, and belief is the only way to receive its benefits.

Parental forgiveness is given to those who have been made a child of God, who have believed Him, who are now members of God’s family as Christians. We have acknowledged our need to be saved (having repented or turned towards God’s way of thinking) and have submitted self-lordship of our lives to the only worthy one–the risen LORD Jesus. Because of our new relationship with God as His child, He desires fellowship with us. Sin breaks that fellowship with God. Therefore, He says in 1 John 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” To confess literally means “to say the same thing as, or to agree with.” The Holy Spirit is the one we are to agree with. He reveals the thought or act we have done as sin. We agree with Him by calling it what He calls it, and God restores us to fellowship with Him. The sins we now commit receive corrective discipline, not punitive punishment.

Some would have us believe that this doctrine leads to immoral behavior and freedom to sin. Rather, 1 John 2:1 gives us clarity, “My little children, these things write I unto you, that you sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” What matters is that we come to God in prayer. (See Heb. 4:12-16) Acknowledge that all our sins have been paid for at the cross. Agree with God concerning our failure in the flesh (called sin) as convicted by the Holy Spirit. By faith, we thank Him for His forgiveness and cleansing from all unrighteousness according to the promise of 1 John 1:9. We then endeavor to remember to, “Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.”

WHAT mATTERS? If our sins are paid for, why do we need to confess?​

There are two kinds of forgiveness with God. Judicial forgiveness and parental forgiveness. Judicial, or legal forgiveness was procured for all mankind when the perfect man Jesus, was made to be sin on the cross, died the death that the wages of sin requires, and was buried to become the Savior of the world. Here is what scripture says, “For He hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin.” 2 Cor.5:21 “For the wages of sin is death.” Rom. 6:23 “…we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, specially of those that believe.” 1 Tim. 4:10 Judicially and legally the sin debt required by God’s law has been paid by the death of the Savior on the cross. Christians and non-Christians alike have their sins paid for. The difference between us is that we as believers in His death, burial, and resurrection, have been given the resurrected life of the Lord Jesus, having been “born again.” But they, in unbelief have not submitted to the resurrected Lord and are yet dead in their trespasses and sins. The debt is paid, but they will not believe it, and belief is the only way to receive its benefits.

Parental forgiveness is given to those who have been made a child of God, who have believed Him, who are now members of God’s family as Christians. We have acknowledged our need to be saved (having repented or turned towards God’s way of thinking) and have submitted self-lordship of our lives to the only worthy one–the risen LORD Jesus. Because of our new relationship with God as His child, He desires fellowship with us. Sin breaks that fellowship with God. Therefore, He says in 1 John 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” To confess literally means “to say the same thing as, or to agree with.” The Holy Spirit is the one we are to agree with. He reveals the thought or act we have done as sin. We agree with Him by calling it what He calls it, and God restores us to fellowship with Him. The sins we now commit receive corrective discipline, not punitive punishment.

Some would have us believe that this doctrine leads to immoral behavior and freedom to sin. Rather, 1 John 2:1 gives us clarity, “My little children, these things write I unto you, that you sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” What matters is that we come to God in prayer. (See Heb. 4:12-16) Acknowledge that all our sins have been paid for at the cross. Agree with God concerning our failure in the flesh (called sin) as convicted by the Holy Spirit. By faith, we thank Him for His forgiveness and cleansing from all unrighteousness according to the promise of 1 John 1:9. We then endeavor to remember to, “Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.” Gal.5:16

We also should confess our sins to one another and ask for prayer. I'm not advocating a tell all in front of the congregation or even our pastor but it's good to have a brother or sister we can be accountable to or confide in.
James 5:16Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed.

 

[Changeditall]

Good points and I don't disagree with you. However, the principle of acknowledgement of sins/wrongdoing and repentance and restoration is mentioned by both Jesus and Paul. Part of the Holy Spirit's job is to convict of sin (John 16:8) and as the body of Christ we are to be alert to sin in the body and judge those who continue to resist the conviction of the HS. (1 Cor. 5, Gal. 6:1 etc.) not overlook it. The problem with the Corinthian church was their "grace orientation" that over rode disciplining an errant brother. The same carelessness can happen to us individually if we aren't sensitive to the conviction of the HS. As to asking God for forgiveness, I again agree with you. But we aren't told to ask. We are told to confess, i.e., acknowledge and agree with the HS concerning our behavior. (Hold fast the profession of our faith), that the blood of Jesus has cleansed us from all unrighteousness. Lastly, I again agree with you, that most of the time, God's discipline is not in play until we repeatedly ignore the conviction of the HS and our hearts begin to harden. 1 John 1:9 is not a permission slip allowing God to forgive us and if we don't confess He won't. It is a reminder for us that we haven't been walking in fellowship with Him and we need to correct that behavior by acknowledging it as sin. If we don't the progression will be a totally hardened heart and we will be in danger of sinning unto physical death because of it as mentioned in 1 John 5 and John 15. Thanks for the insightful comments, blessings.

For me conviction by the Holy Spirit is like punishment. I mean it really feels bad and doesn't stop until I tell it to God.

 

[Set free 47]

A short story: I used to attend this Bible church in my area I liked initially but ended up getting turned off to because the lead pastor was a control freak. One Palm Sunday service several years ago just before they served the Lord's Supper the pastor gave this talk prior to communion. He said that we had better make sure there was not any unconfessed sins in our lives before we receive the Lord's Supper or God could bring judgement on us. Well, I got up, shook my head in complete disagreement, and left the service! And here is why.
Many churches have open communion for all believers, member or not-and I agree with this. But what I don't agree with is telling a believer that they need to examine their conscience to see if there are any unconfessed sins they need to confess before receiving communion. I think a believer can do this before communion, but he should not be compelled to do so. Scripture does not require this. Many churches will base this on a misunderstanding of 1 Cor. 11:27-34. I don't believe Paul is telling all believers that they must examine themselves for any unconfessed sins;. I think Paul is simply reprimanding.these Corinthians for treating the Lord's supper as an 'all you can eat' feast where there is no recognition for and reverance for the bread and wine symbolizing the body and blood of Christ. I think churches have twisted the meaning of this passage to mean that believers have to go through some check list of sins to confess before they can take communion. Most churches do not go to the extreme that this pastor I mentioned above do. So, I am saying that confessing or agreeing with God about ones sins can be any time and does not have to be prior taking the Lord's Supper.
Today, I regularly fellowship with a church that only asks that you be saved to receive communion. Also, no one is ever asked to tithe. They just leave a plate in back for Spirit lead offerings.

 

[Set free 47]

We also should confess our sins to one another and ask for prayer. I'm not advocating a tell all in front of the congregation or even our pastor but it's good to have a brother or sister we can be accountable to or confide in.
James 5:16Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed.

James' Letter was not a doctrinal one for the church under grace, It was written to the twelve tribes scattered abroad (James 1:1) James was writing to people redeemed by Christ, but at the same time still follow Jewish customs, traditions, which involve legal aspects of the Law. BTW, not once does James in his Letter refer to the finished worked of Christ as our eternal redemption. The confession to one another would be seen a traditional practice with Jews under the old covenant. I think the best comparison to those to whom James wrote would be todays Messianic Jews, who believe and are saved, yet follow the customs and traditions of the old covenant and even the Law of Moses. What James wrote is inspired and beneficial to all Christians, but is not to be taken as church doctrine in and of itself.

 

[Pat]

James' Letter was not a doctrinal one for the church under grace, It was written to the twelve tribes scattered abroad (James 1:1) James was writing to people redeemed by Christ, but at the same time still follow Jewish customs, traditions, which involve legal aspects of the Law. BTW, not once does James in his Letter refer to the finished worked of Christ as our eternal redemption. The confession to one another would be seen a traditional practice with Jews under the old covenant. I think the best comparison to those to whom James wrote would be todays Messianic Jews, who believe and are saved, yet follow the customs and traditions of the old covenant and even the Law of Moses. What James wrote is inspired and beneficial to all Christians, but is not to be taken as church doctrine in and of itself.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Timothy 3:16-17
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15

Both verses are important to remember, but the second verse must be dependent on the first. Elevating one book or author above another can lead to trouble. All scripture must be taken together and in context. As stated earlier, one must not base a doctrine on an isolated verse, but the James verses quoted would go well with many exhortations to pray for each other. Paul even confessed he was the chief sinner among all and asked for prayer. Some other verses also written to believing Jews seems to apply also: Hebrews 10:23-25
Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

 

[Everlasting Life]

Pray like this:

Our Father in heaven,
may your name be kept holy.
May your Kingdom come soon.
May your will be done on earth,
as it is in heaven.
Give us today the food we need,
and forgive us our sins,
as we have forgiven those who sin against us.
And don’t let us yield to temptation,
but rescue us from the evil one.

Matt 6:9-13

 

[Set free 47]

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Timothy 3:16-17
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15

Both verses are important to remember, but the second verse must be dependent on the first. Elevating one book or author above another can lead to trouble. All scripture must be taken together and in context. As stated earlier, one must not base a doctrine on an isolated verse, but the James verses quoted would go well with many exhortations to pray for each other. Paul even confessed he was the chief sinner among all and asked for prayer. Some other verses also written to believing Jews seems to apply also: Hebrews 10:23-25
Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Bro. Pat, I am mostly trying to get believers to not just believe things just because they have been taught this or that in their church, denomination, or by pastors or elders. But to search the Scriptures and not be afraid to question and seek for themselves if widely held teachings are Scriptural and according to right division and are dispensational. Not following the crowd will bring rejection, but which is better, seeking to discern the truth, or just conforming to get along? (Acts 17:11)

 

[Set free 47]

Pray like this:

Our Father in heaven,
may your name be kept holy.
May your Kingdom come soon.
May your will be done on earth,
as it is in heaven.
Give us today the food we need,
and forgive us our sins,
as we have forgiven those who sin against us.
And don’t let us yield to temptation,
but rescue us from the evil one.

Matt 6:9-13

The Lord's Prayer is a wonderful prayer, but it was given to the Jews in anticipation of their promised Messiah and Kingdom. It was part of the Sermon on the Mount and it was presented under the legal aspects and consequences of violations of the Law of Moses. Even the part asking God to forgive us our sins comes with a condition: "as we have forgiven those who sin against us" So, if we don't truly forgive others does that mean we are not forgiven? Paul tells the even the carnal church at Corinth in 1 Cor 6:9-11 that even though they had terrible sins that they are washed, sanctified, and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and the Spirit of God. (verse 11) We should indeed forgive one another as Christ has already completely forgiven us. But the Christian believer's forgiveness does not hinge on whether we have truly and completely forgiven all others. If it did, we would all be doomed.

 

[Reunionroundthecorner]

I appreciate this discussion. I know my sins have been washed away by the blood of Jesus. But not to take advantage, for lack of better words, I still ask for forgiveness every night before I go to sleep for sin I have committed that day. The Bible talks about unconfessed sins, which I am not learned on, so......

My sister says she doesn't have to ask for forgiveness since her sins are already forgiven. She does not wantingly sin and live a vicarious life but still unconfessed sins come in to my thoughts.

Has anyone studied this indepth and clarify or simplify this teaching?

Is the key forgiveness or confession??

 

[Pat]

I appreciate this discussion. I know my sins have been washed away by the blood of Jesus. But not to take advantage, for lack of better words, I still ask for forgiveness every night before I go to sleep for sin I have committed that day. The Bible talks about unconfessed sins, which I am not learned on, so......

My sister says she doesn't have to ask for forgiveness since her sins are already forgiven. She does not wantingly sin and live a vicarious life but still unconfessed sins come in to my thoughts.

Has anyone studied this indepth and clarify or simplify this teaching?

Is the key forgiveness or confession??

The key is faith. As Christians, we believed the Gospel, that Jesus died on the cross and was buried, and in doing so, He paid the full penalty for the sin and sins of the world including yours and mine. We also believe that He rose from the dead and in so doing gave us eternal life and forgiveness for all our sins. In other words, when we became born again we received full and complete forgiveness for every past, present and future sins we'd ever committed or will commit. That doesn't give us liberty to continue sinning though. As new creatures we don't want to sin but we still do. Paul said in Romans 7 that it is no longer I that commit sins but rather SIN (the sin nature of Adam we were born with) that dwells in me. So there is this conflict of the old nature and the new creation (see Galatians 5:17, flesh against the spirit etc.)
Back to confession, 1 John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Notice it doesn't say if we ask for forgiveness, He is faithful, but rather if we CONFESS. To confess means, "to agree with the Holy Spirit's conviction that the thing we just did, that He is reminding us of, is SIN. In other words to call it what God calls it, SIN. Something like saying "Yes God, that bad attitude I had with the store clerk is sin." Or if He reminds us that we went over the speed limit, "Yes God, disobeying the speed law today was sin." It is the Holy Spirit's job to convict. Our job is to agree with Him. Thus, the HS takes the place of the OT law. A sin to me might not be a sin to you. (Such as, I might be convicted that card playing is a sin and you may have complete liberty to play cards.)
Your sister is right, we don't ask for forgiveness because we are already forgiven. But we do have to agree with the HS and confess as sins those things He convicts us of in order to maintain an open and free fellowship with our Lord. See 1 John 2:1-2. Hope this helps, blessings.

 

[Pat]

I appreciate this discussion. I know my sins have been washed away by the blood of Jesus. But not to take advantage, for lack of better words, I still ask for forgiveness every night before I go to sleep for sin I have committed that day. The Bible talks about unconfessed sins, which I am not learned on, so......

My sister says she doesn't have to ask for forgiveness since her sins are already forgiven. She does not wantingly sin and live a vicarious life but still unconfessed sins come in to my thoughts.

Has anyone studied this indepth and clarify or simplify this teaching?

Is the key forgiveness or confession??

I also like to pray as David did in Psalm 139:23 "Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: :24 And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting."
In other words, I ask God to show me anything I've done that is sin that is hindering my fellowship with Him. I wait to hear what He says, confess those things He reminds me of, and when I don't hear anything more I thank Him by faith that He is the one that said if I confess He is faithful to (have forgiven) and to have cleansed me from all unrighteousness (i.e. anything else I might have done that wasn't consciencely brought to my mind). So when I finish praying I rejoice and go forward in my walk with Him! Blessings.

 

[Reunionroundthecorner]

The key is faith. As Christians, we believed the Gospel, that Jesus died on the cross and was buried, and in doing so, He paid the full penalty for the sin and sins of the world including yours and mine. We also believe that He rose from the dead and in so doing gave us eternal life and forgiveness for all our sins. In other words, when we became born again we received full and complete forgiveness for every past, present and future sins we'd ever committed or will commit. That doesn't give us liberty to continue sinning though. As new creatures we don't want to sin but we still do. Paul said in Romans 7 that it is no longer I that commit sins but rather SIN (the sin nature of Adam we were born with) that dwells in me. So there is this conflict of the old nature and the new creation (see Galatians 5:17, flesh against the spirit etc.)
Back to confession, 1 John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Notice it doesn't say if we ask for forgiveness, He is faithful, but rather if we CONFESS. To confess means, "to agree with the Holy Spirit's conviction that the thing we just did, that He is reminding us of, is SIN. In other words to call it what God calls it, SIN. Something like saying "Yes God, that bad attitude I had with the store clerk is sin." Or if He reminds us that we went over the speed limit, "Yes God, disobeying the speed law today was sin." It is the Holy Spirit's job to convict. Our job is to agree with Him. Thus, the HS takes the place of the OT law. A sin to me might not be a sin to you. (Such as, I might be convicted that card playing is a sin and you may have complete liberty to play cards.)
Your sister is right, we don't ask for forgiveness because we are already forgiven. But we do have to agree with the HS and confess as sins those things He convicts us of in order to maintain an open and free fellowship with our Lord. See 1 John 2:1-2. Hope this helps, blessings.

Perfectly said. Okay, I get this.

Thank you for your guidance. I truly appreciate it.

Now, the hard part..................to confess my sins.

 

[Set free 47]

I would like to quote a passage from a book written some years ago called Faith that Pleases God, by Bob George, on the subjects of 1 John 1:9. The passage is called, "Whom is 1 John 1:9 Addressing?. First off, I personally do not necessarily agree with everything Bob George says. But let me quote from this chapter for your consideration. Also, let me say I do agree with confessing in the sense of agreeing with God when we realize we have sinned; but this is not to get forgiveness, which we already have as believers, but so we can grow in God's grace. And by the way, this is exactly how Bob George says he handles confessing sins in his life.
Here is George's explanation of 1 John 1:9 from this book;
"You will hear it said that all Scripture is written only to believers. This is utter nonsense. If that were the case, every church should that was planning to teach out of the Bible should have a salvation check at the front door. When Paul and Peter penned their Letters, they were writing to a Christian pastor who was to read the letter to a congregation made up of both lost and saved people, just like the congregations of today. The saved are built up in their faith, and the lost have the opportunity to see their need for salvation and come to faith in Christ.
Reading 1 John in context, we see that it is addressing the lost, not the believer. At the time John wrote this letter, about 90 AD, a heretical group known as the Gnostics had infiltrated the Christian assemblies. The Gnostics believed that all matter is evil, that only spirit is good. Therefore, Jesus could not have come in the flesh, because flesh is matter. So, they concluded that Jesus was an illusion.
Today we still find these doctrines taught through such groups as the Christian Scientists and other metaphysical "churches."
John was thus addressing this issue in his first letter. Notice how it begins, "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our own eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched-this we proclaim concerning the Word of life." (1 John 1:1)
Why do you suppose John begins his letter this way? It was to dispel the Gnostic heresy that was making the rounds in the churches those days.
Now, let me ask you, if Jesus did not come in the flesh, what does that do to the gospel message? If He did not die physically, we are still under condemnation of sin and death. If He was not raised physically, we are sill spiritually dead, separated from the life of Christ. So to deny that Jesus came in the flesh is to deny the gospel.
One other paramount teaching of the Gnostics was that man did not have a sin nature. And even if he did, it did not matter. John addresses this heresy in verses 8 and 10 of 1 John. We quote 1 John 1:9 so often that we seldom look at what is said in the verses before and after: "if we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us....If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives." (1 John 1:8,10)
To help clarify that this is a passage to unbelievers, John wrote in his second letter, "To the chosen lady and her children, whom I love in the truth-and not I only, but also all who know the truth-because of the truth, which lives in us and will be with us forever." (2 John 1.2) Compare this with 1 John 1:8, which says "if we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." If the truth lives in us and will be with us forever, then can a believer ever say that the truth in not in him? This would be double-talk. In one verse he says that if we claim to be without sin, the truth is not in us. And yet later he says the the truth lives in us and will be with us forever. How can these two verses both be referring to a Christian? The only conclusion we can make is that those in 1 John 1:8, who claim to be without sin are lost and later referred to as antichrists.
1 John !:9 is a marvelous salvation passage we have mistakenly applied to the believer and called it the "Christian bar of soap" by which we can keep ourselves clean. The truth is the Christian doesn't need a bar of soap. He has already been cleansed once and forever by the blood of Christ. And we can rest in the fact that God is not counting our sins against us. Paul affirms this in 2 Cor 5:19, where we are told, God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting men's sins against them.
The entire New Testament deals with the completed work of the cross, and yet we, by taking one verse and misapplying it, negate the primary message of the whole New Testament. We rob the cross of Christ of its full power to save from sin."

I have used from most of this quote from George's book and quoted what I feel is the heart of his points. Again, I don't necessarily agree with all he says on the subject here. Again, I believe confession (agreeing with God when we sin), but not to get pardon for sins which we already have. Bob George and I are in agreement here.

Phil

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

According to Martin Luther:

"We have always urged that Confession should be voluntary and that the pope's tyranny should cease. As a result we are now rid of his coercion and set free from the intolerable load and burden that he laid upon Christendom. As we all know from experience, there had been no rule so burdensome as the one that forced everyone to go to Confession on pain of committing the most serious of mortal sins. 2] That law also placed on consciences the heavy burden and torture of having to list all kinds of sin, so that no one was ever able to confess perfectly enough. 3] The worst was that no one taught or even knew what Confession might be or what help and comfort it could give. Instead, it was turned into sheer terror and a hellish torture that one had to go through even if one detested Confession more than anything. 4] These three oppressive things have now been lifted and we have been granted the right to go to Confession freely, under no pressure of coercion or fear; also, we are released from the torture of needing to list all sins in detail; besides this we have the advantage of knowing how to make a beneficial use of Confession for the comfort and strengthening of our consciences."

“In the first place, I have said that besides the Confession here being considered there are two other kinds, which may even more properly be called the Christians' common confession.They are (a) the confession and plea for forgiveness made to God alone and (b) the confession that is made to the neighbor alone. These two kinds of confession are included in the Lord's Prayer, in which we pray, "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us" (Matthew 6:12), and so on. 9] In fact, the entire Lord's Prayer is nothing else than such a confession. For what are our petitions other than a confession that we neither have nor do what we ought, as well as a plea for grace and a cheerful conscience? Confession of this sort should and must continue without letup as long as we live. For the Christian way essentially consists in acknowledging ourselves to be sinners and in praying for grace.”

Martin Luther, A Brief Admonition to Confession, as found in the Book of Concord (Concordia ed.), Book of Concord website


9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. (also translated trespasses and those who trespass against us)
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
Matthew 6:9-13, KJV


Confession keeps us honest about our sinful nature and the sins that we commit by acknowledging them to God and (as appropriate) to our neighbor, and reminds and comforts us about Jesus Christ's work on the cross on our behalf. Announced forgiveness and grace brings us comfort that Jesus Christ paid the full penalty for all our sins, God has forgiven us, and we are reconciled to Him by His grace (and not by any works of our own). In the case of a neighbor saying that he or she forgives us for the sin(s) that we have committed against him or her, we are comforted by the graciousness of our neighbor and reconciled to him or her. This brings to the fore the forgiving our neighbor as God has forgiven us petition in The Lord's Prayer. God does not require or ask for restitution for our sins, yet we so often demand such from our neighbor. This, in turn, reminds us of the parable in Matthew 18.

21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
Matthew 18:21-35, KJV

16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
James 5:16, KJV


Bible verses, upon which traditional Lutheran confession-absolution/announcement of grace are based (I don't know about other denominations' traditions and practices)

22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Hebrews 10:22, KJV

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1 John 1:8-10, KJV

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:12, KJV

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mark 16:16, KJV

6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Philippians 1:6, KJV

21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
John 20:21-23, KJV


Lutheran traditional public corporate confession of sins (generally at the beginning of Sunday morning (weekly) worship service):

O almighty God, merciful Father,
I, a poor, miserable sinner, confess unto Thee all of my sins and iniquities with which I have ever offended Thee and justly deserved Thy temporal and eternal punishment. But I am heartily sorry for them and sincerely repent of them, and I pray Thee of Thy boundless mercy and for the sake of the holy, innocent, bitter sufferings and death of Thy beloved Son, Jesus Christ, to be gracious and merciful to me, a poor sinful being.
(The Lutheran Hymnal, 1941)

OR (various permutations in various Lutheran hymnals)

Almighty God, our Maker and Redeemer,
we poor sinners confess that we are by nature sinful and unclean. We have sinned against Thee in thought, word, and deed, by what we have done and by what we have left undone. We have not loved Thee with our whole hearts; we have not loved our neighbors as ourselves. We justly deserve Thy present and eternal punishment. Wherefore we flee for refuge to Thine infinite mercy, seeking and imploring Thy grace for the sake of our Lord, Jesus Christ.
O most merciful God,
who hast given Thine only-begotten Son to die for us, have mercy upon us and for His sake grant us remission of all our sins; and by Thy Holy Ghost increase in us true knowledge of Thee and of Thy will and true obedience to Thy word, to the end that by Thy grace we may come to everlasting life; through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Amen.