If God knows each and every person before he or she is born, why does God allow or permit a truly evil individual to be born into the world?

[DanLMP]

I wholeheartedly agree that we all are fallen sinful people who deserve hell, we are all in a sense evil. But there are truly wicked individuals out there who seem to have no conscience whereas most of us do, which begs the question is it the lack of conscience that permits evil or is it something much more deeper?

To all actually:

I have mentioned it before - David Wood of Acts17Apologetics has a testimonial YT video that is powerful.

David is a sociopath and by his report does not feel emotions.

He was in jail for an assault on his father and became a Christian while in jail.

I mention him because he typifies the type of person that would normally be considered "unsaveable". Yet he is saved.

There is no end to the power of God to work on your behalf if you truly seek Him, no matter what your spiritual or biological condition is.

Even those who we might describe as "born evil" can and do become saved.

 

[Batfan7]

For the question of why God allows evil people to be born... I've thought the answer is that God's goal are not to "keep people from going to Hell". It's to bring Glory to Himself. We are blessed that He chose to offer salvation, demonstrating that He is Love and Grace and Just.

People who choose to be examples of God's justice (and go to Hell) bring God glory by allowing God to demonstrate how perfect His justice is, by demonstrating how God can create non-robot creature who can love Him honestly. And there are probably other ways that the existence of evil brings God glory ultimately. I'm just so glad that this is a very limited demonstration and for believers, we'll soon be removed from the presence of evil. Permanently.

 

[Kevin007]

jeffrry dahmer became saved, mother theresa may not be. hmmmm

 

[Watchin']

jeffrry dahmer became saved, mother theresa may not be. hmmmm

Isn't that something? Didn't someone say that we might end up being surprised to see who's in heaven, and who's not? God's Grace alone through faith in Jesus Christ saves, no matter your works!

 

[Randy - Saved by Grace]

We are all born sinners and born under the penalty of death. If God would not allow anyone evil to be born, none of us would be ever born.

 

[Terri Horn]

Evil.. It has plagued our world since the beginning of time, when Lucifer fell into darkness and rebelled against God. A angel who was created good by God, and yet evil found a way to corrupt his heart. If everything was created good, even Lucifer who later became Satan then how did sin enter into a perfectly good being despite being in the presence of God? It truly is a mystery that none of us probably do not have an answer for.

But this all leads me to another question that bothers me. The scripture tells us that God knows each and every one of us before we are born, then if that's the case why does God allow evil wicked men to be born? Like brutal tyrants or serial killers? You can argue free will, but if these people are born into their condition, then it's not a choice right?

Perhaps evil is a mystery that the natural human mind cannot fully understand. It's beyond understanding how a perfectly created angel who was created good, somehow fell into extreme evil and led other perfectly good angels to follow in his footsteps. As the word of God says, for now we see through a glass darkly. What do you guys think?

It has a lot to do with free will. For example a 15 year old can go along with friends and kill people OR they make a choice to live a good life. God wants us to live him for himself and if we did not have free will we could not do things voluntarily. Once we have our glorified bodies it will make more sense. Some people have gotten saved because of the evil others do. Jeffrey Dahmer was also saved before he was killed. Will be interesting to see how many were saved do to his actions. What we must always remember that everything that happens lines up with God's plan and since we are imperfect humans we will not understand until our glorified bodies. Probably not the answer you were looking for but always remember no matter what happens God is in charge. Have a great day and see ya in the clouds.

 

[Terri Horn]

If sin is transgression against the commandments of God, then it necessarily follows that God didn't create evil, but that the creation of commandments made sin possible. Sin was then realized when Adam & Eve transgressed against God's commandment. This has support in the biblical account, too. (e.g. Rom. 5:12) By this definition, transgression only has the potential to be realized where there are commandments to be transgressed.

A fun thought experiment involves taking the above line of reasoning and meshing it with the concept of God's holiness --> it inevitably leads to the idea that God is holy (separate from sin) so long as he is consistent with his own commandments (if sin is the transgression of God's commandments).

Regarding your specific question, we are all born with the same condition (i.e. sin). That sin then manifests itself in our willful transgression of God's commandments. Which commandments, how, and to what extent varies from person to person. Also, here's a verse that deals with the idea of judgment + sin; though admittedly, it focuses on the man --> man aspect, rather than the God --> man aspect, but it's probably pertinent.

John 7:51 Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth?

The implied answer is obviously, "no". And we can find a "kinda parallel" in Rev. 20, where people are judged according to their works.

Rev. 20:11-13 ¶ And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

I like your response.

 

[Lovin Jesus]

Ok. Get ready for this.....be prepared, grab a cup of coffee and sit comfortable and relax we will be here a bit
Ultimately,

For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Isaiah 55:8-9

We could never understand Gods logic. We are made in his image but that pertains to things like his qualities and attributes that we are explained in scripture like

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control
Galatians 5:23

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
1 Corinthians 13:4-7

These kind of things is where we are limited to being in Gods image. I’m pointing to that we could rack our minds trying to figure out why he does things as he does or even how he does them and we will never understand him because he is Holy and our Creator.
We can be certain though that upon the fall of man in the garden, God did not waste any time but immediately provided a way to save us from sin and death, immediately.

And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring[a] and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”
Genesis 3:15
It all began with Israel

Jesus is the One to crush the head of Satan. But even with this prophecy which was meant for Israel, the woman, But even with that prophecy I don’t think He waited for Jesus birth and to come to where we are today to bring healing to fallen man. The OT gives us numerous examples of God wanting Israel to repent and return to 20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands nor give up worshiping demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk, He allowed them to experience many tragic events as a way to get them to come back to him, no he didn’t bring tragedy to them but he did let it happen so they would call upon him and he would save them. But because of God having compassion over them he would bring them out of their bondages or crisis situations and for a time they would “behave” then go right back to rebelling against him. No doubt if Israel had genuinely repented and returned to God, Then there would have been no need to go further than the burnt offerings and unblemished lamb to sacrifice. But because they wouldn’t those sacrifices beefed used as a foreshadowing of Jesus sacrifice.
Israel was freed from bondage from Egypt. Moses went up the Mt Sinai for the laws God would give them to make them a clean people for himself. What did they do when Moses went up there? He came back down finding them worshipping a calf.

When the people saw that Moses delayed to come down from the mountain, the people gathered themselves together to Aaron and said to him, “Up, make us gods who shall go before us. As for this Moses, the man who brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we do not know what has become of him.” So Aaron said to them, “Take off the rings of gold that are in the ears of your wives, your sons, and your daughters, and bring them to me.” So all the people took off the rings of gold that were in their ears and brought them to Aaron. And he received the gold from their hand and fashioned it with a graving tool and made a golden calf. And they said, “These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt
Exodus 32.

This kind of repeated rebellion happened a lot and God repeatedly gave them chances again and again and they would not truly repent of their ways. So God continued moving forward with the fulfillment of his prophecies about Genesis 3:15 brought the only way to the Father, Jesus.
Jesus came, first for the Jews who ultimately rejected him as the prophecy fulfillment of the long awaited Messiah.

24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matthew 15:24

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.
Romans 1:16

God has patiently and in his long suffering waited for repentance. He has not just waited for Jesus to be put to death nor is he just waiting for the tribulation to come to pass to keep his promises. It’s all been his patience for us 2 Peter 3:9

But you, O Lord, are a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness.
Psalm 86:15

The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love.
Psalm 103:8

Referencing the OP, God knew in advance that Israel would once again rebel, so that’s why from the foundation of the world the church had a purpose, to bring salvation to the whole world, continuing what Jesus came to do

Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
Ephesians 1:4-5

The purpose of the church
Jesus chose Paul to bring Gentiles into the sheepfold of Jesus

15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel.
Acts 9:15

15 But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace, 16 was pleased to reveal his Son to me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with anyone;
Galatians 1:15-16

I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”
John 10:14-18

If God would have just ended everything from the start knowing everything in advance, then there would be no need for Jesus to come, no church needed to have the purpose we were given from the beginning. We would not have been grafted in the promise with Israel.

So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather, through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. 12 Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!
13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry 14 in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. 15 For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? 16 If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches.

17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root[c] of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.
Romans 11:11-24

Bottom line is if it didn’t go the way things have unfolded, according to God’s purpose, we wouldn’t be here, there would not be a need for the church, and the best explanation is that God has given Israel chances multitudes of times to repent for thousands of years and they refuse. They have free will. It’s always been up to them, up to us. But because We are the ones who have failed to return to God he has in his patience waited. Even in the tribulation he waits, because they can still be saved during the tribulation but not through Grace, but sadly

20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands nor give up worshiping demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk, 21 nor did they repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.
Revelation 9:20-21

Whew! Done! Sorry about this “book” but had to paint the picture in order to make my thoughts on this make sense by using scripture bto answer the OP question
Agape

Btw the black bold above? I didn’t do that. This has been discussed before about human error. But I believe with God all things are possible.

 

[Carl]

I have come to the conclusion that God is doing things that we are not aware of.

 

[Lovin Jesus]

I have come to the conclusion that God is doing things that we are not aware of.

All the time. When we are sleeping He is working.

 

[BrotherKev]

Evil.. It has plagued our world since the beginning of time, when Lucifer fell into darkness and rebelled against God. A angel who was created good by God, and yet evil found a way to corrupt his heart. If everything was created good, even Lucifer who later became Satan then how did sin enter into a perfectly good being despite being in the presence of God? It truly is a mystery that none of us probably do not have an answer for.

But this all leads me to another question that bothers me. The scripture tells us that God knows each and every one of us before we are born, then if that's the case why does God allow evil wicked men to be born? Like brutal tyrants or serial killers? You can argue free will, but if these people are born into their condition, then it's not a choice right?

Perhaps evil is a mystery that the natural human mind cannot fully understand. It's beyond understanding how a perfectly created angel who was created good, somehow fell into extreme evil and led other perfectly good angels to follow in his footsteps. As the word of God says, for now we see through a glass darkly. What do you guys think?

Contrast !?!

 

[annieforjesus]

So many good and insightful and scriptural answers here to a question wondered about a lot..recently I was hit with an answer in the Book of Jonah that I didn't expect.
I'm almost embarrassed to say that I never really looked deeply into the book..I assumed Jonah has pleased God by preaching in Nineveh and seeing them repent.. there's a lot more to see.. in the conversations between God and Jonah it showed that Jonah was very angry.. but why? It seems that Jonah did not want God to save those people..Jonah hated them because they were evil..he even told God that he was angry and wanted to die..just go ahead and kill me..the book ends with a question from God to Jonah..."Then said the Lord, Thou hast had pity on the gourd, for the which thou hast not laboured, neither made it grow; which came up in a night and perished in a night..And should not I spare Nineveh that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?....What I understood on a much deeper level than I've ever understood before was...God deeply loves his creation. Because He created us in His image, He has such a special love for us that we will never be able to understand it here..
The other thing I understood is that He still loves the evil people that hate him probably just as much as the ones who love him...trying to imagine that kind of love is hard for me..I have people who hate me and I can forgive them and pray for them but I don't honestly know if I feel love for them..but God loves perfectly and He can even love the evil people that he allows to be born into the world...

 

[RobinMc]

I think about how complex God made this earth, volcanos, earth quakes, sink holes, glaciers, etc, and animals, skunks and their smell, porcupines and their quills, ducks swimming, kangaroos with their pouches and humans, with their many body organs and their feelings and their hormones..... It goes on and on. How did God come up with all this? How wonderful is the whole thing? sometimes I try to give God a plan and then I remember, he doesn't need my ideas, He is the God of everything, His ways are not our ways. I can't wait for the day we can hopefully sit and listen to everything God or Jesus has to talk with us about.
Infinite wisdom, knowledge that we know nothing of, and we pitifully think we are smart.

 

[Neonap]

It has a lot to do with free will. For example a 15 year old can go along with friends and kill people OR they make a choice to live a good life. God wants us to live him for himself and if we did not have free will we could not do things voluntarily. Once we have our glorified bodies it will make more sense. Some people have gotten saved because of the evil others do. Jeffrey Dahmer was also saved before he was killed. Will be interesting to see how many were saved do to his actions. What we must always remember that everything that happens lines up with God's plan and since we are imperfect humans we will not understand until our glorified bodies. Probably not the answer you were looking for but always remember no matter what happens God is in charge. Have a great day and see ya in the clouds.

It could very well be possible that certain situations or circumstances can unlock the evil that is locked away within one's heart, but this is not always the case. There is also a spiritual aspect to this that we cannot see nor understand since we do not wrestle with flesh and blood.

As to what can create a brutal serial killer, I think there are many factors and things we do not understand of the human heart.

 

[Batfan7]

I once read, and it made so much sense to me, that God's goal is to get as many people into Heaven as possible, not keep as many people out of Hell as possible. Those are two very different things, and explains the "problem of evil" to me. I mean, if God's goal was to keep people out of Hell, he would have looked down the road at the beginning of Creation and said, "Nope. Not going to make humans! Lots of people will end up in Hell." Instead, He said, essentially, "Evil and Hell are necessary to get as many people into Heaven as possible, so it's worth it."

So, that's my perspective which is worth just as much as you paid for it. I just figure God allows evil people to flourish because it always ultimately works out for good for the believers.

As a secondary objective, they become a display of God's perfect Justice which can't otherwise be demonstrated. So they are ultimately people who, even in rebellion, provide God glory.

 

[fan4sure]

This thread is interesting as it addresses a lot of questions and answers I have pondered. My struggle is with babies and children being abducted, trafficked, abused, tortured, sold into sexual slavery, etc. It is a burden on my heart and I cry out to God to please just come get the babies and the children even if it means leaving us here for a while longer for the rapture. I don't understand how the evil perpetrated on the innocent little ones that have no way of defending themselves glorifies God our Father.

I've asked God to forgive me if I've sinned against him for questioning Him. My heart aches as my husband and I have seen pictues of children kept in cages. It's unbearable to know this exists and occurs. I had no idea how widespread this evil was. If someone can explain this to me I would appreciate it, I need prayer.
fanny

 

[Neonap]

This thread is interesting as it addresses a lot of questions and answers I have pondered. My struggle is with babies and children being abducted, trafficked, abused, tortured, sold into sexual slavery, etc. It is a burden on my heart and I cry out to God to please just come get the babies and the children even if it means leaving us here for a while longer for the rapture. I don't understand how the evil perpetrated on the innocent little ones that have no way of defending themselves glorifies God our Father.

I've asked God to forgive me if I've sinned against him for questioning Him. My heart aches as my husband and I have seen pictues of children kept in cages. It's unbearable to know this exists and occurs. I had no idea how widespread this evil was. If someone can explain this to me I would appreciate it, I need prayer.
fanny

I don't think all of the horrific acts of evil especially against innocent poor children glorifies God in any way. I just finished reading up about a very disturbing case of Albert Fish, and I never have read about someone so disturbing and demonic. Human acts of evil are just a result of free will and have no purpose to them but I would imagine that the devil enjoys to see that level of depravity and wickedness.

I simply do not understand why, but I trust God anyway. At the end of the day, the people who do such horrific crimes will have to answer for everything they have ever done and will face God's justice.

 

[Wings Like Eagles]

You kind of answered your own question, but just don't like the answer. Yes, free will is the answer. If you create a robot with programming such that it can only do what you say, you cannot brag about how obedient your robot is can you? If you put a spell on a women to force her to love you, is that really love? God wants his creation to chose him, not be forced to love and obey him.

As far as evil people not having a choice, it's just the opposite. If they could only obey God, that's when they would not have a choice. No one is born to have to do anything, all chose to do whatever it is they do. Do you believe that a murder is born to be a murder and cannot help themselves? If that were true, then God would be unjust and so would our justice system. Neither God nor us would be just to punish someone for something that they did not chose to do, but just had to. It would be like punishing someone for breathing, if that was something bad.

I agree that free will is the underlying principle here. While Satan and his minions are certainly an influence (he is called "the tempter"), the choice is ours. We can obey (the wise choice) or we can rebel (the foolish choice). Obedience produces wisdom and that produces more wisdom and a passion for God and His ways.

Foolishness gives birth to worshiping the triple idols of our day, humanism, materialism, and hedonism. What such a person discovers, is that he can NEVER satiate the desire for all three--he/she becomes a slave to the pursuit. If a foolish person pursues humanism, he/she will never be content until everyone else shares his/her philosophy--actually seeking to punish those who don't. If one pursues materialism--one can never have enough money or the things it can buy. If one lives for pleasure--eating, drinking, sex, drugs, gambling, shopping, etc. such a one alternately wakes up to post-binge misery and guilt (Satan is quite clever in tempting and then condemning those who do rebel). That, reality, when experienced over and over, can bring him/her to the edge of despair, and then progressively to the point of utter nihilism. Those unfortunate souls often commit suicide. Look at the lives of celebrities to see this truth frequently acted out. The Bible indicates that Judas Iscariot was caught up in the desire for money and what it could buy--he stole from the common funds of the disciples and he betrayed the Lord of Glory for 30 pieces of silver.

 

[Wings Like Eagles]

This thread is interesting as it addresses a lot of questions and answers I have pondered. My struggle is with babies and children being abducted, trafficked, abused, tortured, sold into sexual slavery, etc. It is a burden on my heart and I cry out to God to please just come get the babies and the children even if it means leaving us here for a while longer for the rapture. I don't understand how the evil perpetrated on the innocent little ones that have no way of defending themselves glorifies God our Father.

I've asked God to forgive me if I've sinned against him for questioning Him. My heart aches as my husband and I have seen pictues of children kept in cages. It's unbearable to know this exists and occurs. I had no idea how widespread this evil was. If someone can explain this to me I would appreciate it, I need prayer.
fanny

I think we can take comfort in knowing that it breaks the heart of God even more than it does ours.

 

[Wings Like Eagles]

To all actually:

I have mentioned it before - David Wood of Acts17Apologetics has a testimonial YT video that is powerful.

David is a sociopath and by his report does not feel emotions.

He was in jail for an assault on his father and became a Christian while in jail.

I mention him because he typifies the type of person that would normally be considered "unsaveable". Yet he is saved.

There is no end to the power of God to work on your behalf if you truly seek Him, no matter what your spiritual or biological condition is.

Even those who we might describe as "born evil" can and do become saved.

Yes, that is how John Newton, an evil slave ship captain could create the song, Amazing Grace. "Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me..."