"I no longer believe in God" declares Jon Steingard of Christian band Hawk Nelson

Brother Albert R.

Well-Known Member
A faith built on the sand of emotivism will not withstand the world's tribulations. I'm saddened to hear his story, though.
I never heard of the band or any of its members. I think Jon Steingard needs to rethink his belief and not give up on God. If he only knew that God is very real, and there is very real evidence that He exists. Our dating method is based on His birth aprox 2,020 years ago and many people saw Him. I do not know if he believed in the theory of evolution but the theory of evolution is a lie, and real science proves it. If only he would persevere and not give up, he would find out that God is still in the business of letting Himself be found by those who seek for Him with all their heart. I am not judging him but I would very much like to have talked with him, prayed with him, steady him by embracing him, and reasoned with him about the questions he may have had. I hope he slides back...I will pray to that end.
Brother Albert
 

borrowedtime

Well-Known Member
Ahhh. I remember this band! It was one of the songs that made Jesus more of a boyfriend than your Lord and Savior. One of the arguments I had before I left youth ministry.

Sad. When you make the soul purpose of your “faith” about experience than sound biblical teaching of course you are on shaky grounds. You’re expecting this romantic relationship with God and that’s just not how it works.

Sad. Hopefully he comes around and learns some sound biblical teaching.
 

Tall Timbers

Imperfect but forgiven
Sad. Hopefully he comes around and learns some sound biblical teaching.
I hope he finds Christ if he hasn't yet. Decades ago I was familiar with a fella that had a very nice Christian Outreach Ministry in Southern California. A day came when he left his faith, left his ministry, left his wife, and started selling used cars. I've never been able to connect the dots in my mind. Decades later I'm still baffled.
 

JSTyler

Well-Known Member
I hope he finds Christ if he hasn't yet. Decades ago I was familiar with a fella that had a very nice Christian Outreach Ministry in Southern California. A day came when he left his faith, left his ministry, left his wife, and started selling used cars. I've never been able to connect the dots in my mind. Decades later I'm still baffled.
The parable of the Sower always comes to mind when I read something like this. The upside is it also forces me to evaluate where my heart is, what my focus is and more often than not get to praying. Aaaaaand it's nice when I realize through prayer that my soil is deep, though now and then I have to admit that it's usually stinking like manure because of my eagerness to stray, but it's at the very least, deep...is that good?
 

JSTyler

Well-Known Member
Ahhh. I remember this band! It was one of the songs that made Jesus more of a boyfriend than your Lord and Savior. One of the arguments I had before I left youth ministry.
I had to come back to this comment/s. It's right on target and wouldn't leave me alone. The wifey is gonna have to forgive me for delaying dinner for just a little longer :unsure I'm going to try and pawn off some of the blame on you @borrowedtime I hope she buys it!

You've colored the nature of those watered-down, contemporary takes on "worship/christian music" perfectly. It's a bad formula, the "jesus-lite" generic box mix recipe that typically results in food-not-food, no substance, no savor, no salt just something that's about making more noise (and money). It's classic for outing immaturity and lack of biblical depth in the listener and the noise maker alike. It's like all the jesus-junk on display at the counter of "christian bookstores", plastic, poorly designed and having no lasting value. And it's all very tragic.

Sad. When you make the soul purpose of your “faith” about experience than sound biblical teaching of course you are on shaky grounds. You’re expecting this romantic relationship with God and that’s just not how it works.
BOOM! So much wisdom and value in this statement of yours! This was the bit that wouldn't leave my mind until the dots connected and a dim-bulb lit within. I made two edits that my mind put in place as I came back and re-read this. Here they are;

"Sad. When you make the soul purpose of your “marriage” about experience than sound biblical teaching of course you are on shaky grounds. You’re expecting this romantic relationship with hubby/wifey and that’s just not how it works."

Experience and romance are wonderful components that add incalculable value to any relationship. However, they are terrible foundations to build any relationship upon. House, meet rock or house, meet sand.

Sad. Hopefully he comes around and learns some sound biblical teaching.
I need to come around to this way of thinking so that it's my first response; kind, gentle and directing hearts to Jesus Christ. Rather than what I did feel and think initially, that being straight up and honest..my gut reaction was to say, "Someone call for the wah-mbulance, or get this guy a wah-burger and french-cries!" So, love first followed by the cold bucket of reality?

And I can't seem to find the exact quote but it goes something like this; "Emotions are good companions but make for poor leaders." The Body of Christ is far too emotionally focused and we are paying a dear price for that.
 

borrowedtime

Well-Known Member
I had to come back to this comment/s. It's right on target and wouldn't leave me alone. The wifey is gonna have to forgive me for delaying dinner for just a little longer :unsure I'm going to try and pawn off some of the blame on you @borrowedtime I hope she buys it!

You've colored the nature of those watered-down, contemporary takes on "worship/christian music" perfectly. It's a bad formula, the "jesus-lite" generic box mix recipe that typically results in food-not-food, no substance, no savor, no salt just something that's about making more noise (and money). It's classic for outing immaturity and lack of biblical depth in the listener and the noise maker alike. It's like all the jesus-junk on display at the counter of "christian bookstores", plastic, poorly designed and having no lasting value. And it's all very tragic.



BOOM! So much wisdom and value in this statement of yours! This was the bit that wouldn't leave my mind until the dots connected and a dim-bulb lit within. I made two edits that my mind put in place as I came back and re-read this. Here they are;

"Sad. When you make the soul purpose of your “marriage” about experience than sound biblical teaching of course you are on shaky grounds. You’re expecting this romantic relationship with hubby/wifey and that’s just not how it works."

Experience and romance are wonderful components that add incalculable value to any relationship. However, they are terrible foundations to build any relationship upon. House, meet rock or house, meet sand.



I need to come around to this way of thinking so that it's my first response; kind, gentle and directing hearts to Jesus Christ. Rather than what I did feel and think initially, that being straight up and honest..my gut reaction was to say, "Someone call for the wah-mbulance, or get this guy a wah-burger and french-cries!" So, love first followed by the cold bucket of reality?

And I can't seem to find the exact quote but it goes something like this; "Emotions are good companions but make for poor leaders." The Body of Christ is far too emotionally focused and we are paying a dear price for that.
Hey JST!

Yeah, sadly I had to deal with it first hand when I was in youth ministry. So much “feel feel feel” and “love love love”. It creates quiet a turmoil in the youth as in today “love” is only portrayed through acts of “happiness”.

The message is so watered down that “love” makes people think only “good” things come with it and since Jesus is God and He “loves” me then NOTHING bad should happen cause I have faith. As if the Bible never speaks of Christians being persecuted, God refusing to heal Paul, Paul not able to heal some of his direct followers or even some of the emotional torment Ezekiel went through.

So we assume “love” is ONLY equated to “good” actions forgetting even in basic parenting parents often punish their children for good reasons and we lose sight of Biblical teachings that this IS a fallen world and we won’t know perfection till Heaven. A person living a righteous life can still be tormented by horrible diseases and the Devils right hand man may live the “perfect” earthly life.

Then Christian babes/non believers are left with nothing but to confront their false ideology when they don’t get their way. And sadly, they blame God when He never promised perfection here on Earth.

My breaking point was when one of my youths was going through severe medical issues and they kept laying hands on him, kept telling him to “have more faith”. “Jesus loves you so you’ll be fine and get through this”. I had a very open relationship with the youth regarding all the torments of my life (sexually abused and emotionally abused by parents) and my message was always the same. God loves me enough to pay the price for my sin. I was a sinner much like those that accosted me. I needed Jesus as much as they did. It was all about the race Paul spoke of.

The boy kept spinning down wards as his condition worsened. I finally confronted all the leaders and talked regarding the laying of hands and this “have enough faith” stuff and ran through Biblical passages to show them they were making it worse instead of comforting him and praying for him to lean and God and hope the doctors could help him. Sometimes all we can do is remember God is in full control and pray He comforts our hearts and hopefully the Dr’s help, but His Will be done.

They kept respinning “just have faith” and since my daughter was in the group we ceased going.

And yes, @Tall Timbers is right and I had a slight mistyping. If this band guy isn’t saved I hope he finds God. But some of the kids I knew were saved (to the best of my knowledge) and I could see them giving up on Christianity because of the false teaching.

But if we are saved, we are not the ones who have to hold on. Jesus already has us. If the band guy is saved hopefully after some time he can reconnect and have a more fruitful walk with the Lord.


Sorry. TLDR. :p
 
Hey JST!

Yeah, sadly I had to deal with it first hand when I was in youth ministry. So much “feel feel feel” and “love love love”. It creates quiet a turmoil in the youth as in today “love” is only portrayed through acts of “happiness”.

The message is so watered down that “love” makes people think only “good” things come with it and since Jesus is God and He “loves” me then NOTHING bad should happen cause I have faith. As if the Bible never speaks of Christians being persecuted, God refusing to heal Paul, Paul not able to heal some of his direct followers or even some of the emotional torment Ezekiel went through.

So we assume “love” is ONLY equated to “good” actions forgetting even in basic parenting parents often punish their children for good reasons and we lose sight of Biblical teachings that this IS a fallen world and we won’t know perfection till Heaven. A person living a righteous life can still be tormented by horrible diseases and the Devils right hand man may live the “perfect” earthly life.

Then Christian babes/non believers are left with nothing but to confront their false ideology when they don’t get their way. And sadly, they blame God when He never promised perfection here on Earth.

My breaking point was when one of my youths was going through severe medical issues and they kept laying hands on him, kept telling him to “have more faith”. “Jesus loves you so you’ll be fine and get through this”. I had a very open relationship with the youth regarding all the torments of my life (sexually abused and emotionally abused by parents) and my message was always the same. God loves me enough to pay the price for my sin. I was a sinner much like those that accosted me. I needed Jesus as much as they did. It was all about the race Paul spoke of.

The boy kept spinning down wards as his condition worsened. I finally confronted all the leaders and talked regarding the laying of hands and this “have enough faith” stuff and ran through Biblical passages to show them they were making it worse instead of comforting him and praying for him to lean and God and hope the doctors could help him. Sometimes all we can do is remember God is in full control and pray He comforts our hearts and hopefully the Dr’s help, but His Will be done.

They kept respinning “just have faith” and since my daughter was in the group we ceased going.

And yes, @Tall Timbers is right and I had a slight mistyping. If this band guy isn’t saved I hope he finds God. But some of the kids I knew were saved (to the best of my knowledge) and I could see them giving up on Christianity because of the false teaching.

But if we are saved, we are not the ones who have to hold on. Jesus already has us. If the band guy is saved hopefully after some time he can reconnect and have a more fruitful walk with the Lord.


Sorry. TLDR. :p
Yeah, the whole "just have faith" thing bothers me, because it's almost like they think there's a "faith meter' somewhere that when it hits a certain number, then "Jesus just HAS to heal/save/reward ya!"

Whether it is this situation, or another where prayer is not answered the way we want it to be, it is all too easy for us to assume that the one asking “didn’t have enough faith.” It is the belief (more along the lines of “group-think”) that either all of hardship and suffering have entered your life as an unbeliever that the person having troubles must have done something evil to bring on such “divine punishment”, or that you didn't "have enough faith" and were being penalized for it.

I'm pretty sure you're familiar with the story in Scripture of the man that was blind since birth that Jesus healed (I think you may have used that when you talked to the group leaders). I know one those kind of folks pull is the story of the boy that was possessed that only Jesus could heal after He and 3 of the disciples returned from His transfiguration, But it doesn’t mean we lacked faith, nor does it mean we sinned somehow.

They also seem to forget that the Lord isn't limited in the means by which He heals. I believe it's pretty crummy of those who are looking for "brilliant miracles" to be searching for some supernatural, awe inspiring act that they can regale audiences in a starry-eyed fashion. God isn't a performing pony that does tricks to amuse the crowds, and sometimes miracles can be the right person in the right place with the right skills and knowledge to use them (such as a doctor).

(Well, there I go being long winded again! lol )
 
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borrowedtime

Well-Known Member
Yeah, the whole "just have faith" thing bothers me, because it's almost like they think there's a "faith meter' somewhere that when it hits a certain number, then "Jesus just HAS to heal/save/reward ya!"

Whether it is this situation, or another where prayer is not answered the way we want it to be, it is all too easy for us to assume that the one asking “didn’t have enough faith.” It is the belief (more along the lines of “group-think”) thateither all of hardship and suffering have entered your life as an unbeliever that the person having troubles must have done something evil to bring on such “divine punishment”, or that you didn't "have enough faith" and were being penalized for it.

I'm pretty sure you're familiar with the story in Scripture of the man that was blind since birth that Jesus healed (I think you may have used that when you talked to the group leaders). I know one those kind of folks pull is the story of the boy that was possessed that only Jesus could heal after He and 3 of the disciples returned from His transfiguration, But it doesn’t mean we lacked faith, nor does it mean we sinned somehow.

They also seem to forget that the Lord isn't limited in the means by which He heals. I believe it's pretty crummy of those who are looking for "brilliant miracles" to be searching for some supernatural, awe inspiring act that they can regale audiences in a starry-eyed fashion. God isn't a performing pony that does tricks to amuse the crowds, and sometimes miracles can be the right person in the right place with the right skills and knowledge to use them (such as a doctor).

(Well, there I go being long winded again! lol )
Yup! And you hit it on the head with the last part about performing pony!

It’s the way this world has spun “love” to mean all these grandiose things that now they sing about Jesus like a love interest where they think that I’m truly in the stink of life Jesus is going to waltz in here in this very moment on his noble steed, hair blowing in the wind, reach his hand out and we will ride off into the sunset and life will be perfect and happily ever after. (Yes ever after with Jesus is true, but it not how I’m referring in this moment).

It’s also one of the reason why (IMHO) divorce rates are so high. Hollywood makes it oh so magical like a marriage is always happy. No struggle. Then the spouse loses a job, gets cancer, or stressed out by kids and they go “hey, I didn’t sign up for suffering. Let me go to this other fellow with no (insert problem) and I’ll get my happily ever after!!” Meanwhile the troubled spouse is left in further suffering and abandonment by the ONE person who PROMISED in all sickness and problems they would stay.

No Fault divorce was a mistake.
 

JSTyler

Well-Known Member
Such great points @Sojourner414 and @borrowedtime too many to quote and respond to and there's no need anyway to go point by point. I'm in absolute harmony with what you've both said. I try to "nutshell" complex issues in my mind, as it makes it easier to hold on to them longer and hopefully grow through the process. You've offered a LOT of wonderful input to codify.

And that's what it comes down to, growth. Maturity. And that's what is so lacking in the faith of far too many broken people, me included. It's not about lack of faith so much, but about what/who that faith is in and how it works out in our lives. Peter only had an instant of time to pray before the water-walking shoes failed, "Lord, save me!" Abraham on the other had was faithfully following promises for how long and through how much? (that may be a false equivalence, kick my shins if I took a lazy shortcut here).

We are so prone to be looking for the next sweet little candy piece that pops out of God's cosmic pez dispenser, and doing so we easily lose our grip on the importance of the process. Faith isn't the reward, it's the formation of trust working through patience and obedience that leads to reward, the love of God. And which of us can define how that's supposed to look, feel or happen?

Also @borrowedtime we deal with a lot of different types of leaders in a ministry that we volunteer/work for...youth leaders/pastors = LORD JESUS GIVE US STRENGTH! There are good ones, a few of them, I mean there has to be, right? :wink
 

Kerbluey

Well-Known Member
Great points y’all. I was into all that stuff, but it never worked. I spent years feeling like God’s ugly stepchild and still struggle with it occasionally. I hated God for years after I left. Hate, not dislike. I cursed Him and His followers, and if they’d been lynching christians I’d have been tying the knots. I suspect under this singer’s disbelief is a lot of hurt and rage and feelings of betrayal.
 

JSTyler

Well-Known Member
Great points y’all. I was into all that stuff, but it never worked. I spent years feeling like God’s ugly stepchild and still struggle with it occasionally. I hated God for years after I left. Hate, not dislike. I cursed Him and His followers, and if they’d been lynching christians I’d have been tying the knots. I suspect under this singer’s disbelief is a lot of hurt and rage and feelings of betrayal.
:nod been there, went astray just like that :nod
 
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