I never knew you

Raajj35

Well-Known Member
Matthew 7:22-23
21 (A)“Not everyone who (B)says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will (C)enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who (D)does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 (E)On that day (F)many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not (G)prophesy in your name, and cast out demons (H)in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 (I)And then will I declare to them, ‘I (J)never knew you; (K)depart from me, (L)you workers of lawlessness.’.

These are words I never want to hear, yet fear I will sometimes. What exactly or Who exactly do you think Jesus is talking about in this verse?

Sorry if this is posted in the wrong area, it's kind of related to end times lol.
 

NewWine2020

Well-Known Member
Matthew 7:22-23
21 (A)“Not everyone who (B)says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will (C)enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who (D)does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 (E)On that day (F)many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not (G)prophesy in your name, and cast out demons (H)in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 (I)And then will I declare to them, ‘I (J)never knew you; (K)depart from me, (L)you workers of lawlessness.’.

These are words I never want to hear, yet fear I will sometimes. What exactly or Who exactly do you think Jesus is talking about in this verse?

Sorry if this is posted in the wrong area, it's kind of related to end times lol.

This is a question I also have, so I'm interested to see the response; thank you for asking!
 

Everlasting Life

Through Faith in Jesus
https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/he-denied-them-twice/

Q
Re: Matt. 7:21-23. This passage has always troubled me.This sounds like these people are Christians who have received Jesus as Savior and Lord or else how could they do these mighty things unless it was the Holy Spirit doing it through them? So if they could not lose their eternal salvation why did Jesus tell them to depart from Him that He never knew them?

A
Matt. 7:21-23 says, Not every one who says to me Lord Lord shall enter into the kingdom of Heaven but him who does the will of my Father which is in Heaven. Many will say to Me on the last day, “Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in Your Name and in your Name cast out demons and in your Name done many wonderful things?” Then will I tell them. “I never knew you depart from me, you who work iniquity. ”
Not everything that appears to be miraculous is from God. For instance, Pharaoh’s magicians duplicated a miracle of Moses in Exodus 8:20-22, and the anti-Christ will deceive the world with his counterfeit miracles (2 Thes. 2:9-10) after the Church is gone.
Jesus said only those who do the will of the Father will enter His kingdom. The will of the Father is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life (John 6:40). Since Jesus said these people won’t enter the Kingdom that means they didn’t do the will of His Father and therefore were never believers.
Also, if the people of Matt. 7:21-23 were believers who had lost their salvation Jesus would have said He knew them once but no longer did. Since He said he never knew them, He meant they had never been believers. The miracles have to be counterfeit.

They replied, “We want to perform God’s works, too. What should we do?” Jesus told them, “This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent.”....For it is my Father’s will that all who see his Son and believe in him should have eternal life. I will raise them up at the last day.”

John 6:28-29, 40

And this is his commandment: We must believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as he commanded us.
1 John 3:23
 

Everlasting Life

Through Faith in Jesus
This is where context of passage is really good to consider along with the whole theme of the book.

Jesus came to Israel first to specifically offer them the kingdom, if they so chose and to give them opportunity for this through recognizing Jesus as their Messiah, repenting (as John the Baptist preached) and placing faith in Jesus Christ for their salvation. Jesus was dilineated between those who would be true disciples vs those who were religious and depending on external ritual or their own works to get to heaven instead of Jesus's work.....like the Sadducees and Pharisees These religious leaders that Jesus was speaking to during his time, obtusely refused to place faith in Jesus; ones who of all people who knew scripture and by this time should have recognized the ample signs that the very passages they claimed to know said what would happen when the Messiah would come, was happening.

They were so focused on outward appearances and external ritual, rather than what Jesus was interested in, changed hearts through repentance and faith in Him. When this happens, Jesus' righteousness is then imputed to that believer. So then, it is only those who do not have faith in Jesus who will be told on judgement day that Jesus never knew them, because they never repented and placed faith in him. The people Jesus referred to seemed to be ones who utilized Jesus name, apparently and ironically even though using Jesus name had amazing effects, that step of actually repenting and placing childlike faith in Jesus was not taken. They utilized the name of Jesus but not His power for themselves.

This is reflected in 2 Timothy 3:1-5, note the exterior vs the interior in vs 5

You should know this, Timothy, that in the last days there will be very difficult times. 2 For people will love only themselves and their money. They will be boastful and proud, scoffing at God, disobedient to their parents, and ungrateful. They will consider nothing sacred. 3 They will be unloving and unforgiving; they will slander others and have no self-control. They will be cruel and hate what is good. 4 They will betray their friends, be reckless, be puffed up with pride, and love pleasure rather than God. 5 They will act religious, but they will reject the power that could make them godly. Stay away from people like that!

And that power spoken of in Timothy is Jesus Christ through the indwelling Holy Spirit of a blood bought, born again believer who's repented (changed heart and mind about sin) and placed their faith in Jesus Christ and His work on our behalf in payment of sin, saving us from the wrath of God and instead giving us the gift of Eternal Life.

But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. And you will be my witnesses, telling people about me everywhere—in Jerusalem, throughout Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” Acts 1:8

Through the power of the Holy Spirit who lives within us, carefully guard the precious truth that has been entrusted to you. 2Timothy 1:14

But you, dear friends, must build each other up in your most holy faith, pray in the power of the Holy Spirit and await the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will bring you eternal life. In this way, you will keep yourselves safe in God’s love. Jude 1:20

So to the believer in Christ Paul says:

But now you are free from the power of sin and have become slaves of God. Now you do those things that lead to holiness and result in eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:22-23
 

jayhawkbasketball

Well-Known Member
https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/he-denied-them-twice/

Q
Re: Matt. 7:21-23. This passage has always troubled me.This sounds like these people are Christians who have received Jesus as Savior and Lord or else how could they do these mighty things unless it was the Holy Spirit doing it through them? So if they could not lose their eternal salvation why did Jesus tell them to depart from Him that He never knew them?

A
Matt. 7:21-23 says, Not every one who says to me Lord Lord shall enter into the kingdom of Heaven but him who does the will of my Father which is in Heaven. Many will say to Me on the last day, “Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in Your Name and in your Name cast out demons and in your Name done many wonderful things?” Then will I tell them. “I never knew you depart from me, you who work iniquity. ”
Not everything that appears to be miraculous is from God. For instance, Pharaoh’s magicians duplicated a miracle of Moses in Exodus 8:20-22, and the anti-Christ will deceive the world with his counterfeit miracles (2 Thes. 2:9-10) after the Church is gone.
Jesus said only those who do the will of the Father will enter His kingdom. The will of the Father is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life (John 6:40). Since Jesus said these people won’t enter the Kingdom that means they didn’t do the will of His Father and therefore were never believers.
Also, if the people of Matt. 7:21-23 were believers who had lost their salvation Jesus would have said He knew them once but no longer did. Since He said he never knew them, He meant they had never been believers. The miracles have to be counterfeit.

They replied, “We want to perform God’s works, too. What should we do?” Jesus told them, “This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent.”....For it is my Father’s will that all who see his Son and believe in him should have eternal life. I will raise them up at the last day.”

John 6:28-29, 40

And this is his commandment: We must believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as he commanded us.
1 John 3:23
Well said. God’s gift of salvation and his very limited requirement of us just needing to believe is very revolutionary. It’s so simple in fact, that it’s even hard for people like us to accept / understand sometimes.

It’s like someone walking up to you and handing you one million dollars in honest, clean cash…and then walking away. Except this is for our eternal souls.
 

MyhopeisinHim

Well-Known Member
Matthew 7:22-23
21 (A)“Not everyone who (B)says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will (C)enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who (D)does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 (E)On that day (F)many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not (G)prophesy in your name, and cast out demons (H)in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 (I)And then will I declare to them, ‘I (J)never knew you; (K)depart from me, (L)you workers of lawlessness.’.

These are words I never want to hear, yet fear I will sometimes. What exactly or Who exactly do you think Jesus is talking about in this verse?

Sorry if this is posted in the wrong area, it's kind of related to end times lol.
I believe it's about the Lord knowing what is in each and everyone's heart. Some confess to believe in Jesus to look good to others but they do not truly know the Lord. He is the only one who knows our true heart and intentions. That's why in the end He will say well done good and faithful servant , not judging our works, but what's truly believed in our hearts.
 

yrrek

Well-Known Member
https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/he-denied-them-twice/

Q
Re: Matt. 7:21-23. This passage has always troubled me.This sounds like these people are Christians who have received Jesus as Savior and Lord or else how could they do these mighty things unless it was the Holy Spirit doing it through them? So if they could not lose their eternal salvation why did Jesus tell them to depart from Him that He never knew them?

A
Matt. 7:21-23 says, Not every one who says to me Lord Lord shall enter into the kingdom of Heaven but him who does the will of my Father which is in Heaven. Many will say to Me on the last day, “Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in Your Name and in your Name cast out demons and in your Name done many wonderful things?” Then will I tell them. “I never knew you depart from me, you who work iniquity. ”
Not everything that appears to be miraculous is from God. For instance, Pharaoh’s magicians duplicated a miracle of Moses in Exodus 8:20-22, and the anti-Christ will deceive the world with his counterfeit miracles (2 Thes. 2:9-10) after the Church is gone.
Jesus said only those who do the will of the Father will enter His kingdom. The will of the Father is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life (John 6:40). Since Jesus said these people won’t enter the Kingdom that means they didn’t do the will of His Father and therefore were never believers.
Also, if the people of Matt. 7:21-23 were believers who had lost their salvation Jesus would have said He knew them once but no longer did. Since He said he never knew them, He meant they had never been believers. The miracles have to be counterfeit.

They replied, “We want to perform God’s works, too. What should we do?” Jesus told them, “This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent.”....For it is my Father’s will that all who see his Son and believe in him should have eternal life. I will raise them up at the last day.”

John 6:28-29, 40

And this is his commandment: We must believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as he commanded us.
1 John 3:23
One preacher I listened to said that they were never following. They were only able to do those things because the name of Jesus is above all names and so powerful. They knew of Jesus but didn’t follow him personally.
 

usoutpost31

Well-Known Member
Even today, it is not hard to find people like Jesus spoke of. Many prophets prophesying, especially on the Internet, or faith healers, claiming to heal illnesses and cast out demons.

A few months ago I read what is probably the definite account of the story of the People's Temple, and its leader, Jim Jones. Road to Jonestown, by Jeff Guinn. But I thought about Matthew 7:21-23 when I read it.

Jim Jones went to church every Sunday as a child, often multiple churches on the same Sunday, and would go up front and pray the sinner's prayer every time. He always wanted to be a preacher, and became one on the revival circuit; and most of his early members of the People's Temple were Christians, he actively recruited from black churches. And at that time, in the 1950s and 1960s, he would often preach messages from the Bible, they made affiliation with the Disciples of Christ, and they did many things that we would characterize as "good". They fed the hungry, clothed the naked, gave the homeless a place to live, paid college tuition for kids who couldn't afford to go to school, fought against racism, etc.

But then things started to take a darker turn, after Jones relocated to California. He stopped preaching messages from the Bible and started denouncing it as racist propaganda, and he would later say he never believed anything that was in there. His Gospel was not the one found within the pages of the Bible but the one he believed in reverently, socialism. The gospel of good works.

And we know how that story ended, Jim Jones paranoia and persecution complex, his followers avid devotion of him as god-like, led to the tragedy at Jonestown.. I can't say with absolute certainty where Jim Jones is today (although indications are pretty strong where his destination was); I do imagine him(and many of his followers, probably, considering how they abandoned any association with Christianity by the end) saying those words in front of Jesus. They put all their energy and faith into making the world a better place and spent no time preparing for eternity or developing a personal relationship with God.
 

glc11

Well-Known Member
Matthew 7:22-23
21 (A)“Not everyone who (B)says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will (C)enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who (D)does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 (E)On that day (F)many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not (G)prophesy in your name, and cast out demons (H)in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 (I)And then will I declare to them, ‘I (J)never knew you; (K)depart from me, (L)you workers of lawlessness.’.

These are words I never want to hear, yet fear I will sometimes. What exactly or Who exactly do you think Jesus is talking about in this verse?

Sorry if this is posted in the wrong area, it's kind of related to end times lol.
Good question!!!
 

Raajj35

Well-Known Member

glc11

Well-Known Member
This is where context of passage is really good to consider along with the whole theme of the book.

Jesus came to Israel first to specifically offer them the kingdom, if they so chose and to give them opportunity for this through recognizing Jesus as their Messiah, repenting (as John the Baptist preached) and placing faith in Jesus Christ for their salvation. Jesus was dilineated between those who would be true disciples vs those who were religious and depending on external ritual or their own works to get to heaven instead of Jesus's work.....like the Sadducees and Pharisees These religious leaders that Jesus was speaking to during his time, obtusely refused to place faith in Jesus; ones who of all people who knew scripture and by this time should have recognized the ample signs that the very passages they claimed to know said what would happen when the Messiah would come, was happening.

They were so focused on outward appearances and external ritual, rather than what Jesus was interested in, changed hearts through repentance and faith in Him. When this happens, Jesus' righteousness is then imputed to that believer. So then, it is only those who do not have faith in Jesus who will be told on judgement day that Jesus never knew them, because they never repented and placed faith in him. The people Jesus referred to seemed to be ones who utilized Jesus name, apparently and ironically even though using Jesus name had amazing effects, that step of actually repenting and placing childlike faith in Jesus was not taken. They utilized the name of Jesus but not His power for themselves.

This is reflected in 2 Timothy 3:1-5, note the exterior vs the interior in vs 5

You should know this, Timothy, that in the last days there will be very difficult times. 2 For people will love only themselves and their money. They will be boastful and proud, scoffing at God, disobedient to their parents, and ungrateful. They will consider nothing sacred. 3 They will be unloving and unforgiving; they will slander others and have no self-control. They will be cruel and hate what is good. 4 They will betray their friends, be reckless, be puffed up with pride, and love pleasure rather than God. 5 They will act religious, but they will reject the power that could make them godly. Stay away from people like that!

And that power spoken of in Timothy is Jesus Christ through the indwelling Holy Spirit of a blood bought, born again believer who's repented (changed heart and mind about sin) and placed their faith in Jesus Christ and His work on our behalf in payment of sin, saving us from the wrath of God and instead giving us the gift of Eternal Life.

But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. And you will be my witnesses, telling people about me everywhere—in Jerusalem, throughout Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” Acts 1:8

Through the power of the Holy Spirit who lives within us, carefully guard the precious truth that has been entrusted to you. 2Timothy 1:14

But you, dear friends, must build each other up in your most holy faith, pray in the power of the Holy Spirit and await the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will bring you eternal life. In this way, you will keep yourselves safe in God’s love. Jude 1:20

So to the believer in Christ Paul says:

But now you are free from the power of sin and have become slaves of God. Now you do those things that lead to holiness and result in eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:22-23
I love this! While I am secure in my salvation today, as many of you know from my past posts….. I was in a legalistic , Calvinism preaching church for over 8 years. Wow did they use this as the “fear” verse to get people serving! I could go on.

These answers here are far more in line with the teachings of Jesus and God’s character.
 

cheeky200386

Well-Known Member
I just dont understand how someone can heal the sick, cast out demons and many other good things in His name and not believe He is their Savior. I believe He is my Savior but I haven't done any of those things that I'm aware of.
Think of Catholic exorcism. These "Priests" believe they are saved and have cast out demons from people. Yet, you and I both know that Catholicism leads people to hell as it's filled with superstition, idol worship, and mysticism.

The movie The Exorcism of Emily Rose based on a true story has been on my mind lately. It's tragic how that young woman was tortured by demons and failed exorcisms. She believed Mary was speaking to her and then she died. These priests attempted exorcisms over either several months or 1-2 years. If only she had been born again, she would have truly been freed.
 

Everlasting Life

Through Faith in Jesus
...But then things started to take a darker turn, after Jones relocated to California. He stopped preaching messages from the Bible and started denouncing it as racist propaganda, and he would later say he never believed anything that was in there. His Gospel was not the one found within the pages of the Bible but the one he believed in reverently, socialism. The gospel of good works....

Wow. :oops: That is really sad for so many reasons.
 

Raajj35

Well-Known Member
Think of Catholic exorcism. These "Priests" believe they are saved and have cast out demons from people. Yet, you and I both know that Catholicism leads people to hell as it's filled with superstition, idol worship, and mysticism.

The movie The Exorcism of Emily Rose based on a true story has been on my mind lately. It's tragic how that young woman was tortured by demons and failed exorcisms. She believed Mary was speaking to her and then she died. These priests attempted exorcisms over either several months or 1-2 years. If only she had been born again, she would have truly been freed.
I dont know why, but I never really thought of catholicism in this context until you pointed it out. I know they worship Mary above God and now that makes total sense. Thank you!
 

Rocky R.

Well-Known Member
When these people are told by Christ, "Depart from Me, I never knew you.", they plead their case before the throne by recounting their good deeds. But mentioning the good deeds reveals their belief that entrance into Heaven is all about them, what they supposedly did, not what Christ did. Notice how they talk about their "good deeds", but they never mention a single moment in time where they appealed to His grace. Nowhere is it found in their argument that they appealed to God's grace and settled out of court -- it's always about them and their "good deeds".

In other words, when someone (let's call him Joe B.) comes before the throne and hears, "I never knew you", Joe starts spouting off that he was a good Catholic, attended mass religiously, never missed communion, yadda yadda yadda. Not once does he mention a single moment in time where he appealed to God's grace and accepted Christ's sacrifice as payment for his sins.
 

mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
When these people are told by Christ, "Depart from Me, I never knew you.", they plead their case before the throne by recounting their good deeds. But mentioning the good deeds reveals their belief that entrance into Heaven is all about them, what they supposedly did, not what Christ did. Notice how they talk about their "good deeds", but they never mention a single moment in time where they appealed to His grace. Nowhere is it found in their argument that they appealed to God's grace and settled out of court -- it's always about them and their "good deeds".

In other words, when someone (let's call him Joe B.) comes before the throne and hears, "I never knew you", Joe starts spouting off that he was a good Catholic, attended mass religiously, never missed communion, yadda yadda yadda. Not once does he mention a single moment in time where he appealed to God's grace and accepted Christ's sacrifice as payment for his sins.
Excellent, brother!
 
Top