I have been struggling with thinking anyone actually goes to hell ?

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lightofmylife

Blessed Hope-Prepare To Fly!
There is a Hallmark slogan that says when you care enough to send the very best which is their greeting cards. God sent Jesus because he is the only way to be forgiven of our sins, and go to heaven. John 3:16. Jesus came down to be born as a baby to die on the cross for the sins of the world. He is the Very Best! People either accept or reject the gift of salvation. He sends no one to hell it is a personal choice each one of us will do. John 14:6.
 

mattfivefour

Administrator
Staff member
Don't know where the doubts, seem to come from nowhere. :ohno
Dave and Lynn have given you the right answer: the doubts come directly from Satan. The only solution is to accept God's Word as given. Hell is real and everlasting. And Jesus said the majority of people will wind up there (Matthew 7:13-14). This is not God's will (2 Peter 3:9). It is man's.
 

lightofmylife

Blessed Hope-Prepare To Fly!
Dave and Lynn have given you the right answer: the doubts come directly from Satan. The only solution is to accept God's Word as given. Hell is real and everlasting. And Jesus said the majority of people will wind up there (Matthew 7:13-14). This is not God's will (2 Peter 3:9). It is man's.
I agree with Dave, Lynn, and mattfivefour! The first thing that came to my mind is :diablo. He brings fear and doubts/unbelief. The :bibleis always our final authority always tells the truth! :thumbup:thumbup
 

usoutpost31

Well-Known Member
Thank you everyone.
I never had a nagging thought about this before.
Hell is indeed a troubling subject, the enormity and gravity of it. We have never seen or experienced such a place. It is hard to understand. One Minute After You Die, a book from Erwin Lutzer, helped me greatly on the topic. He takes on difficult questions about death and the justice of Hell; I think he gave meaningful answers.

I think what is important to remember about the Bible is it's a challenging book. It contains many extraordinary claims; it invites the reader to ask questions. Our faith is not a blind faith; we do not turn our brains off at the door.

Doubt can be a double edged sword; some people feed that doubt until they think they know better; that doubt turns into heretical teaching or even full blown apostasy. But for others, like me, doubt led to a journey of discovery for more meaningful answers.

My response to doubt has not been to suppress it or act like it doesn't exist; it's going to resurface eventually. I believe the best response is to search and meditate on Scripture; a good probability the answer to our questions is in there, God will reveal his truth to us, if we seek it.
 

Amethyst

Angie ... †
.

My response to doubt has not been to suppress it or act like it doesn't exist; it's going to resurface eventually. I believe the best response is to search and meditate on Scripture; a good probability the answer to our questions is in there, God will reveal his truth to us, if we seek it.
yes He always has for me. That’s why I prefer to come here and discuss with others with the Holy Spirit.
 

kathymendel

Well-Known Member
Dd and I were discussing this a while back........... we both firmly believe that the only way to heaven is through Jesus.

But, we were one day pondering how interesting it would be, if at the judgement, Jesus looked at satan and said, "Nope,
they are ALL mine .......... your plans for them failed".............

Can you just imagine satan losing it?????
 

Batman

Well-Known Member
For at least 40 of my 56 years I've felt the masses will continue year after year to die off and step into a Christ-less eternity; and have had despair and extreme grave grief over this. The wide and the narrow path scripture doesn't say a ratio but it has to be pretty high and over 50% for sure that don't repent prior to their demise. These are hard things to think about and they will only go away for me after my death or the rapture.
 

Amethyst

Angie ... †
I wanted to say it was never a question of me thinking God is not 'right' to send anyone there at all. I have had enough experience with demonic inspired events and deep dark depression to know that being and feeling 'void' of God is probably the worst feeling I have ever had.

It's just sometimes what goes on here with a person doesn't seem to match up with where someone's destiny will likely be.

But I know it is just a matter of believing all of scripture. Walking by faith not by sight.
 

Work4Peanuts

I like being just a Well-Known Member
...This would not be "annihilationism" (i.e. the belief that all who go to the Lake of Fire are obliterated) but rather, that some--the merely human--would cease to exist. Those on the other side of the argument insist that souls are immortal and therefore, that all souls sent to Gehenna would be tormented there forever.
Revelation 14:9-11
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

They will not cease to exist.
 

mattfivefour

Administrator
Staff member
Dd and I were discussing this a while back........... we both firmly believe that the only way to heaven is through Jesus.

But, we were one day pondering how interesting it would be, if at the judgement, Jesus looked at satan and said, "Nope,
they are ALL mine .......... your plans for them failed".............

Can you just imagine satan losing it?????
An interesting thought. But again, we go to the Bible. And God has made it very clear that this idea will not occur. Jesus Himself has left no doubt. So, as much "fun" as the thought may be to consider, it is another we need to cast down. Allowing such thoughts to continue to sit at the back of our minds just gives them (and others like them) room to sprout down the road. I have learned to be very severe with such thoughts.
 

Wings Like Eagles

Well-Known Member
Revelation 14:9-11
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

They will not cease to exist.
I did not say that. I said that the only ones mentioned as being tormented forever are: the Antichrist, the False Prophet, those who take the Mark of the Beast and Satan. I wonder if those who take the Mark of the Beast will somehow be changed from being merely human? I suspect they will be something other than ordinary sinful humans--but, I could well be wrong. When Scripture singles them out and groups them with the Antichrist, False Prophet and Satan, it suggests that there is something different about them. Perhaps they will be infested with demons like the Antichrist, False Prophet and Satan himself (one reason why I think that evil angels are not the same thing as demons). (see Revelation 16:13).
 

kathymendel

Well-Known Member
An interesting thought. But again, we go to the Bible. And God has made it very clear that this idea will not occur. Jesus Himself has left no doubt. So, as much "fun" as the thought may be to consider, it is another we need to cast down. Allowing such thoughts to continue to sit at the back of our minds just gives them (and others like them) room to sprout down the road. I have learned to be very severe with such thoughts.
It was only a thought in passing, Adrian. We never doubted that salvation comes only by way of Jesus and God's clearly stated plan in His Word.
"Joke's on you, satan" was just a "gotcha" moment in our minds - no harm, no foul.
 

Chris

Administrator
Staff member
I think it is important to remember why people will be going to condemnation in the Final Judgment. They go there because of their sins, which have not been done away by the Blood of Jesus. They have refused the grace that God freely offers to all who will humble themselves before Him and accept the gift of His grace, through faith.

Going to "the place of punishment" in Hades is apparently temporary (see the confinement of the "rich man" in Luke 16) where one can see it plainly explained by Jesus. There are three words that apply to the place where the rich man and Lazarus are seen in Jesus' parable--in both Hebrew and Greek (the Jews had been using the Greek Septuagint--the translation of the Old Testament into Greek--in Jesus' day). The Hebrew term, sheol merely means, "the place of the dead" which was divided into two parts, Paradise (also, "the bosom of Abraham"), for the righteous dead. The unrighteous dead, went to "the place of torment." There was an unbridgeable gap between the two sides to which Abraham makes reference in Jesus' parable. Hades was the Greek equivalent to sheol--the place of the dead. The Greek term referencing the place of punishment was tartarus . What is a point of confusion is that our English Bibles translate all, including Gehenna (the Lake of Fire) as "hell". But that may not have been correct for the English translators to lump them all together.

The Final Judgment will lead to "the Second Death" in the Lake of Fire (Gehenna). There, the inhabitants will apparently die forever. We cannot imagine such a place, but that doesn't mean that it could not exist. As far as I'm aware (and I would be grateful to anyone who could point to Scripture that would contradict), the only beings who are specifically mentioned as going to the Lake of Fire to be tormented forever are: the Antichrist, the False Prophet, those who take the Mark of the Beast and Satan himself. It could well be that others are merely sent to be destroyed in Gehenna, as Jesus implied, when He admonished His hearers to "...fear Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell (Matthew 10:28). This would not be "annihilationism" (i.e. the belief that all who go to the Lake of Fire are obliterated) but rather, that some--the merely human--would cease to exist. Those on the other side of the argument insist that souls are immortal and therefore, that all souls sent to Gehenna would be tormented there forever.

I'm sorry, but we do not support "annihilationism" OR anything similar to it on the forums.

We hold to the conservative, fundamental, and sound interpretation that Heaven is a place of eternal bliss while Hell (later the lake of fire) is a place of eternal torture.

We do not support any form of "cease to exist" on RF. This is man's attempt to make himself feel better about his judgment, but it is not biblical. The Bible does NOT teach this.

You are free to believe whatever you want to believe on the topic. But please do not promote it on the forums.

There seems to be a lot of people who are going off from sound teaching and entertaining "alternative" ideas about topics that they find disturbing or that don't feel comfortable to them. This is why there is so much false teaching in the church these days.


Is Hell Being Diminished?
By Jack Kelley

Question: I had always thought that if you accepted Jesus as your savior you were saved and went to Heaven to be with Him for Eternity, and if you rejected Him you would spend eternity In Hell (Lake of Fire). But a lot of preachers today say that if you are not saved you will be separated from God forever which is true but not complete in my opinion and some of the young people I am talking with say, “So what? I am separated from Him now and it is no big deal.” Other pastors say you will suffer eternal death and again they say, “So what? A little pain and then oblivion.” Will you help and once again I request that you tell me if I am wrong.

Answer: You’re right, there is a heaven to gain and a hell to shun as the old saying goes. In Luke 16:19-31 Jesus told the story of Lazarus and the rich man to describe what it’s like to be in hell. And in Mark 9:43-48 Jesus made reference to the fire that is never quenched where the worm never dies. This clearly shows that hell is not just a place of isolation. Nor is it a matter of being destroyed and that’s the end of it. It is a place of torment, and it lasts forever.

The current trend of of trying to diminish the consequences of refusing the pardon Jesus paid for with His life can not be supported by Scripture, and has the unintended consequence of persuading non-believers that rejecting God is not as catastrophic as they might have thought.

https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/is-hell-being-diminished/


The bolded above is the conservative, fundamental, and sound interpretation of what Hell is like and that is what we hold to here at Rapture forums.

Promoting Annihilationism OR anything similar to it is not permitted here and is in violation of the forum rules specifically Rule #6.

Thank you for understanding.


This is a very good explanation as well.


The Dead And The Great White Throne
By Jack Kelley

Question: My question concerns revelation chapter 20. The Bible seems to indicate that the final “resting” place of the wicked will be in the lake of fire. Is this the same place as hell? What does it mean by death and hades and they gave up their dead? Where are the unsaved kept until the Great White Throne Judgment. OK, I guess that is three questions.

Answer: The Great White Throne judgment is the event where all the unsaved from the age of man will be assigned their final destiny. From the time of their death until they stand before the throne they are being kept in a temporary place called Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek where they are being tormented by the devil. (In the KJV both words are translated as Hell.) Until the cross, the saved also went to this place, but were comforted by Abraham while they waited for the Lord’s sacrifice to open the gates of Heaven. After the resurrection, He took the believers to Heaven. The unsaved remained where they were.

When Rev. 20:13 says that death and Hades (Hell) gave up the dead that were in them, it means the dead will be taken to stand for judgment before the Great White Throne. Then death and Hades (Hell) and anyone who’s name is not found in the Book of Life will be thrown into the Lake of Fire to join Satan, the anti-Christ and the false prophet, where they’ll all be tormented day and night forever. (Rev. 20:10,15)

https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/the-dead-and-the-great-white-throne/
 

Wings Like Eagles

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry, but we do not support "annihilationism" OR anything similar to it on the forums.

We hold to the conservative, fundamental, and sound interpretation that Heaven is a place of eternal bliss while Hell (later the lake of fire) is a place of eternal torture.

We do not support any form of "cease to exist" on RF. This is man's attempt to make himself feel better about his judgment, but it is not biblical. The Bible does NOT teach this.

You are free to believe whatever you want to believe on the topic. But please do not promote it on the forums.

There seems to be a lot of people who are going off from sound teaching and entertaining "alternative" ideas about topics that they find disturbing or that don't feel comfortable to them. This is why there is so much false teaching in the church these days.


Is Hell Being Diminished?
By Jack Kelley

Question: I had always thought that if you accepted Jesus as your savior you were saved and went to Heaven to be with Him for Eternity, and if you rejected Him you would spend eternity In Hell (Lake of Fire). But a lot of preachers today say that if you are not saved you will be separated from God forever which is true but not complete in my opinion and some of the young people I am talking with say, “So what? I am separated from Him now and it is no big deal.” Other pastors say you will suffer eternal death and again they say, “So what? A little pain and then oblivion.” Will you help and once again I request that you tell me if I am wrong.

Answer: You’re right, there is a heaven to gain and a hell to shun as the old saying goes. In Luke 16:19-31 Jesus told the story of Lazarus and the rich man to describe what it’s like to be in hell. And in Mark 9:43-48 Jesus made reference to the fire that is never quenched where the worm never dies. This clearly shows that hell is not just a place of isolation. Nor is it a matter of being destroyed and that’s the end of it. It is a place of torment, and it lasts forever.

The current trend of of trying to diminish the consequences of refusing the pardon Jesus paid for with His life can not be supported by Scripture, and has the unintended consequence of persuading non-believers that rejecting God is not as catastrophic as they might have thought.

https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/is-hell-being-diminished/


The bolded above is the conservative, fundamental, and sound interpretation of what Hell is like and that is what we hold to here at Rapture forums.

Promoting Annihilationism OR anything similar to it is not permitted here and is in violation of the forum rules specifically Rule #6.

Thank you for understanding.


This is a very good explanation as well.


The Dead And The Great White Throne
By Jack Kelley

Question: My question concerns revelation chapter 20. The Bible seems to indicate that the final “resting” place of the wicked will be in the lake of fire. Is this the same place as hell? What does it mean by death and hades and they gave up their dead? Where are the unsaved kept until the Great White Throne Judgment. OK, I guess that is three questions.

Answer: The Great White Throne judgment is the event where all the unsaved from the age of man will be assigned their final destiny. From the time of their death until they stand before the throne they are being kept in a temporary place called Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek where they are being tormented by the devil. (In the KJV both words are translated as Hell.) Until the cross, the saved also went to this place, but were comforted by Abraham while they waited for the Lord’s sacrifice to open the gates of Heaven. After the resurrection, He took the believers to Heaven. The unsaved remained where they were.

When Rev. 20:13 says that death and Hades (Hell) gave up the dead that were in them, it means the dead will be taken to stand for judgment before the Great White Throne. Then death and Hades (Hell) and anyone who’s name is not found in the Book of Life will be thrown into the Lake of Fire to join Satan, the anti-Christ and the false prophet, where they’ll all be tormented day and night forever. (Rev. 20:10,15)

https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/the-dead-and-the-great-white-throne/
I presented both sides of the debate. I do not hold to annihilationism or anything like it, personally--but there is the wording of Jesus Himself, in Matthew 10:28, that must be wrestled with. Also, in looking at Revelation 20:10,15--those verses do not say what Kelley says they say. He is making an assumption when he says they will all be tormented day and night forever. The verse preceding (vs. 14) links their condemnation to "the second death".
 
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mattfivefour

Administrator
Staff member
I think it is important to remember why people will be going to condemnation in the Final Judgment. They go there because of their sins, which have not been done away by the Blood of Jesus. They have refused the grace that God freely offers to all who will humble themselves before Him and accept the gift of His grace, through faith.

Going to "the place of punishment" in Hades is apparently temporary (see the confinement of the "rich man" in Luke 16) where one can see it plainly explained by Jesus. There are three words that apply to the place where the rich man and Lazarus are seen in Jesus' parable--in both Hebrew and Greek (the Jews had been using the Greek Septuagint--the translation of the Old Testament into Greek--in Jesus' day). The Hebrew term, sheol merely means, "the place of the dead" which was divided into two parts, Paradise (also, "the bosom of Abraham"), for the righteous dead. The unrighteous dead, went to "the place of torment." There was an unbridgeable gap between the two sides to which Abraham makes reference in Jesus' parable. Hades was the Greek equivalent to sheol--the place of the dead. The Greek term referencing the place of punishment was tartarus . What is a point of confusion is that our English Bibles translate all, including Gehenna (the Lake of Fire) as "hell". But that may not have been correct for the English translators to lump them all together.

The Final Judgment will lead to "the Second Death" in the Lake of Fire (Gehenna). There, the inhabitants will apparently die forever. We cannot imagine such a place, but that doesn't mean that it could not exist. As far as I'm aware (and I would be grateful to anyone who could point to Scripture that would contradict), the only beings who are specifically mentioned as going to the Lake of Fire to be tormented forever are: the Antichrist, the False Prophet, those who take the Mark of the Beast and Satan himself. It could well be that others are merely sent to be destroyed in Gehenna, as Jesus implied, when He admonished His hearers to "...fear Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell (Matthew 10:28). This would not be "annihilationism" (i.e. the belief that all who go to the Lake of Fire are obliterated) but rather, that some--the merely human--would cease to exist. Those on the other side of the argument insist that souls are immortal and therefore, that all souls sent to Gehenna would be tormented there forever.
I have no difficulty agreeing with your first paragraph. But, respectfully, your second two paragraphs are scripturally incorrect. Chris has explained why above. The ultimate answer is found in Revelation 20:15-- "If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." That eliminates any idea that those who are not Christ's will not be cast into the Lake of Fire to be tormented forever.

Bible interpreting must be based on a complete comparison of all verses on a topic. Matthew 10:28 cannot contradict all of the other verses. This is a basic principle of hermeneutics. As Thayer's (far superior to Strong's for the Greek scholar) points out, apollumi is clearly used metaphorically in Matthew 10:28 and James 4:12. In fact it is used repeatedly to mean to be lost. Those who are not Christ's are indeed lost and perish from the presence of God. But Scripture is clear they continue to exist outside of Him in utter torment forever.
 
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Wings Like Eagles

Well-Known Member
I have no difficulty agreeing with your first paragraph. But, respectfully, your second two paragraphs are scripturally incorrect. Chris has explained why above. The ultimate answer is found in Revelation 20:15-- "If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." That eliminates any idea that those who are not Christ's will not be cast into the Lake of Fire to be tormented forever.
I never asserted that. I believe that they all will be thrown into the Lake of Fire--because that is what Scripture says--but it links to the "second death" for those deceived by Satan (see 20:14). Unfortunately, I was not as exacting as I would have wanted to be. I do believe that ALL unbelievers go to the Lake of Fire after the Final Judgment.
 
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mattfivefour

Administrator
Staff member
Also, in looking at Revelation 20:10,15--those verses do not say what Kelley says they say. He is making an assumption when he says they will all be tormented day and night forever.
Look at verse 15 again and you will see you are wrong. It says clearly what Jack said: "if anyone's name was not found written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." Anyone. So, ALL who are not written in the Book of Life will be thrown into the Lake of Fire. End of discussion.

ETA:
Anything else is playing with words. Proper exposition does not allow for Scripture to change Scripture. It is all of one cloth. The Lake of Fire contains eternal torment. Eternal. Torment. Again, end of discussion.

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but that is how error creeps in to settled doctrine and false teachings take hold and lead many astray.
 

Wings Like Eagles

Well-Known Member
Look at verse 15 again and you will see you are wrong. It says clearly what Jack said: "if anyone's name was not found written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." Anyone. So, ALL who are not written in the Book of Life will be thrown into the Lake of Fire. End of discussion.
And that is what I affirmed in my post of a few minutes ago.
 
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