How Much Worse Will It Get?

Wings Like Eagles

Well-Known Member
Since the days of Babylon?
Probably wayyyy before the Babylonian Empire. In Genesis 11 we read the curious account of the Tower of Babel in the "plains of Shinar" (which was also called "Babylonia" even in that day). The text tells us that they shared a common language and they determined that they would build a mighty Tower into the sky (thought to be a ziggurat) and "make a name" for themselves). Ziggurats were usually foul places of human sacrifice and enslavement (seems to be the case whenever archeologists have dug them up, throughout the world).

The humans engaged in that way, were inclined to centralized authority under brutal, absolute kings/satraps/suzerains, etc. where there was unquestioned obedience, on pain of death. We see in the Book of Esther, that the Persians had made it "illegal" to even approach the King unless he called for a person. Esther could have died for going to see the King of Persia (her husband) unbidden. That's why God told Samuel to tell the Israelites that they didn't want a King, outlining the peril they would face were they to decide on having a king (which they apparently ignored).

Decentralized authority is much safer for the average person, but those who would aspire to rule as despots liked central authority (controlled by them) as well as hereditary concentration of wealth. God's system of government was decentralized. To prevent the concentration of wealth, He had ordered that the families of Israel were to permanently retain ownership of the land (wealth) divided up by divine decree. It really wasn't possible for some of the sharper inhabitants to bilk those who were guileless, out of their land. In the Year of Jubilee, all debts were cancelled and the land portion returned to the family who had mortgaged it.

When a nation rejects Christ as their King, they, sooner or later, fall into the hands of a ruling class, who typically become more and more intolerant of dissent and that inevitably lead to cruel oppression and despotism. Under wholly righteous King Jesus, there will be a flowering of peace and plenty--such as this world has never seen since the Fall. True humility consists of understanding our inability to cause perfect honour, truth and justice to rain down from the throne, such as will be the case with our Righteous King, Jesus.
 
Last edited:

Lovin Jesus

Well-Known Member
All that talk has produced a world bank, a world criminal justice system along with its own courts, a world legislative body (The UN). I was listening to an old (within the last year) Jan Markell show and the guest named off all of the global institutions that already exist, and said the only thing we don't have is the nations of the world submitting to the world governing body. Whoever that guest was, I agree with him. The OWG is already here, it just hasn't received real authority over the nations yet, though it has been used by subsets of nations to claim authority for one action or another.

God will remove the Church before his wrath commences upon the world, but that doesn't exclude us from whatever happens between now and then. The OWG isn't something for Believers to fear. It's good to know what's coming via the Word so we're not caught off guard.
The prophecies related to AC have an order for him to come into power. The OWG could be implemented before the rapture because for the AC to even arise and be given power the OWG has to already be implemented in order for the "little horn" to come up out of the Revived Roman Empire and subdue three out of the ten and then he is given Power to rule and will confirm the covenant with many.

“After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast—terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns.

8 “While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully.
Daniel 7:7-8

We know we are raptured before AC is revealed but he is likely already alce and
I know that's your opinion because the Bible doesn't tell us that. The more I consider all that is coming, the more I'm inclined to believe we'll find ourselves with a OWG that has power over most of the nations before we're Raptured. That's an opinion of mine that is fluid...
I agree with you that it's "possible" that we may see the OWG put in place before the rapture. The bible tells us we will be out of here before the AC is revealed and he won't be revealed until after the OWG is already in place and he subdues three of the ten nation government THEN power is given to the AC to be the world leader, as we find in Daniel chapter 7. We can already see the planning taking place globalists push for the "great reset" and the EU talking about becoming the United States of Europe. The pandemic may soon come to an end but alot of damage has been done as a result causing a domino effect from being at the verge of economic collapse, global food shortages due to disruption of the supply chain and and destructive weather that has ruined crops
I’m tired
“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest."
Matthew 11:28
 

Tall Timbers

Imperfect but forgiven
I agree with you that it's "possible" that we may see the OWG put in place before the rapture. The bible tells us we will be out of here before the AC is revealed and he won't be revealed until after the OWG is already in place and he subdues three of the ten nation government THEN power is given to the AC to be the world leader, as we find in Daniel chapter 7.

Amen. The Bible gives us these things in their order in Dan 7:23-77

1st: OWG
2nd: Heads (kings) over 10 regions
3rd: antichrist becomes head of the OWG
4th: war to consolidate power over the 10 regions (3 kings subdued)

The Church could be here for the first two in the list.
 

Lovin Jesus

Well-Known Member
I know that's your opinion because the Bible doesn't tell us that. The more I consider all that is coming, the more I'm inclined to believe we'll find ourselves with a OWG that has power over most of the nations before we're Raptured. That's an opinion of mine that is fluid...
I never thought we would even make it this far. I tend to think it "could be possible" for the OWG to at least be formed before the rapture because as Paul says the man of lawlessness will not be revealed until the restrainer is taken out of the way, our rapture. Following Daniel 7:7-8 note what it says

"there before me was a fourth beast—terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns.

8 “While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully."

Isn't it possible the OWG could be in place with the church still here but be raptured before the "little horn", the AC rises out of the ten horned (nations) OWG from when three will be subdued? I think AC would be revealed at least when he confirms the covenant with many or at some point after.
Amen. The Bible gives us these things in their order in Dan 7:23-77

1st: OWG
2nd: Heads (kings) over 10 regions
3rd: antichrist becomes head of the OWG
4th: war to consolidate power over the 10 regions (3 kings subdued)

The Church could be here for the first two in the list.
If we know the man of lawlessness won't be revealed until the restrainer is taken out of the way, I'd the OWG is put in place before the rapture, In think the rapture may take place some time before the fall of the three out of the ten horned kingdom (Dan. 7:8) because it's at this point the AC rises into power. The foundation of the OWG is already being planned with the globalists push for the great reset. We'll see what happens at the upcoming WEF conference this year. The Demonrats are working hard to make America collapse. With the fall of America as a world power that may be what the globalists need to move forward with their plan. I'm watching The Middle East closely because Ezekiel 38 is getting close to coming to fulfilment. We may see that war begin but we will be In heaven to watch the finish. But, it's not etched in stone, lol, it's just my opinion.
 

Lastcall

Well-Known Member
The prophecies related to AC have an order for him to come into power. The OWG could be implemented before the rapture because for the AC to even arise and be given power the OWG has to already be implemented in order for the "little horn" to come up out of the Revived Roman Empire and subdue three out of the ten and then he is given Power to rule and will confirm the covenant with many.

“After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast—terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns.

8 “While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully.
Daniel 7:7-8

We know we are raptured before AC is revealed but he is likely already alce and

I agree with you that it's "possible" that we may see the OWG put in place before the rapture. The bible tells us we will be out of here before the AC is revealed and he won't be revealed until after the OWG is already in place and he subdues three of the ten nation government THEN power is given to the AC to be the world leader, as we find in Daniel chapter 7. We can already see the planning taking place globalists push for the "great reset" and the EU talking about becoming the United States of Europe. The pandemic may soon come to an end but alot of damage has been done as a result causing a domino effect from being at the verge of economic collapse, global food shortages due to disruption of the supply chain and and destructive weather that has ruined crops

“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest."
Matthew 11:28
Good post.

A gap between the aftermath of the rapture and the start of the tribulation would easily allow time for the OWG to form.
 

Saved and Waiting

Well-Known Member
I kept thinking about persecution of the Church, in these end times, yesterday and all day today. I went to Gracethrufaith with Jack Kelley and reread this Q/A that he spoke about. It was written in July of 2006...over 15 years ago. I look at how far America has descended into a country with the true Gospel being replaced by so much satanic lies and deceit from church building pulpits to most of the garbage on the so called "christian" ministries on television, radio, etc. Of course, the true Gospel is hardly being preached in any country in the world but it appears that the true Gospel is being heard and accepted most in countries such as China, Russia, Iran, etc. Because of that, I believe Satan will continue to persecute those where the Gospel is still making the most converts to Christianity. I do believe that the whole Church will continue to be persecuted in many different ways but the countries who are making the most converts are the ones Satan will continue to persecute the most.

Here is the question to Jack and his answer:

Home » Ask a Bible Teacher » Persecution Or Judgment?

Q
It seems to me many people are confused, about the difference between persecution and judgment.
Believers are promised persecution and it has been so since the dawn of the Church age. However, judgment (God’s Judgment) is only for unbelievers. What do you think?
A
As Jesus told us in John 16:33 the Church will always face persecution of one form or another.
Persecution has been the world’s response to any movement it fears and doesn’t understand and Christianity is no exception. (Of course the real force behind the persecution of the Church is Satan who understands it all too well and is preying on man’s fear.) And judgment is reserved for unbelievers.
In the west we mostly face unfair and restrictive legislation today. Maybe that’s because Satan no longer considers the western church a legitimate threat and so maintains only a harassment strategy here while turning his attention elsewhere. Most of what we call church growth here is really migration, as we move from building to building without really adding to our numbers.
But in the third world, it’s estimated that as many as 175,000 new believers are added to the heavenly roles every day, so the real persecution the Church is experiencing today is in countries like China, Africa and India.
That’s where Pastors are being imprisoned and tortured, buildings are being burned down, and believers are being attacked and raped in record numbers. Whole villages of African Christians have disappeared. In Jericho and Bethlehem, 4 out of the 5 Christians who used to live there have fled for their lives since they came under Palestinian control. Hindus broke into a Christian orphanage in India and terrorized 150 young girls living there. Similar things can be said about the Muslim response to Christianity in Indonesia with rapes, torture, and beheading. And China allows only state approved churches who agree not to preach about salvation or Heaven. Violation brings prison terms and torture. In the time it takes you to read this, about 60 seconds, two more believers will have died for their faith somewhere in the world.
What’s my point? We don’t have to wait for the Great Tribulation for the Church to experience persecution.
Just because we’re not experiencing persecution personally doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.
 

Lovin Jesus

Well-Known Member
I kept thinking about persecution of the Church, in these end times, yesterday and all day today. I went to Gracethrufaith with Jack Kelley and reread this Q/A that he spoke about. It was written in July of 2006...over 15 years ago. I look at how far America has descended into a country with the true Gospel being replaced by so much satanic lies and deceit from church building pulpits to most of the garbage on the so called "christian" ministries on television, radio, etc. Of course, the true Gospel is hardly being preached in any country in the world but it appears that the true Gospel is being heard and accepted most in countries such as China, Russia, Iran, etc. Because of that, I believe Satan will continue to persecute those where the Gospel is still making the most converts to Christianity. I do believe that the whole Church will continue to be persecuted in many different ways but the countries who are making the most converts are the ones Satan will continue to persecute the most.

Here is the question to Jack and his answer:

Home » Ask a Bible Teacher » Persecution Or Judgment?

Q
It seems to me many people are confused, about the difference between persecution and judgment.
Believers are promised persecution and it has been so since the dawn of the Church age. However, judgment (God’s Judgment) is only for unbelievers. What do you think?
A
As Jesus told us in John 16:33 the Church will always face persecution of one form or another.
Persecution has been the world’s response to any movement it fears and doesn’t understand and Christianity is no exception. (Of course the real force behind the persecution of the Church is Satan who understands it all too well and is preying on man’s fear.) And judgment is reserved for unbelievers.
In the west we mostly face unfair and restrictive legislation today. Maybe that’s because Satan no longer considers the western church a legitimate threat and so maintains only a harassment strategy here while turning his attention elsewhere. Most of what we call church growth here is really migration, as we move from building to building without really adding to our numbers.
But in the third world, it’s estimated that as many as 175,000 new believers are added to the heavenly roles every day, so the real persecution the Church is experiencing today is in countries like China, Africa and India.
That’s where Pastors are being imprisoned and tortured, buildings are being burned down, and believers are being attacked and raped in record numbers. Whole villages of African Christians have disappeared. In Jericho and Bethlehem, 4 out of the 5 Christians who used to live there have fled for their lives since they came under Palestinian control. Hindus broke into a Christian orphanage in India and terrorized 150 young girls living there. Similar things can be said about the Muslim response to Christianity in Indonesia with rapes, torture, and beheading. And China allows only state approved churches who agree not to preach about salvation or Heaven. Violation brings prison terms and torture. In the time it takes you to read this, about 60 seconds, two more believers will have died for their faith somewhere in the world.
What’s my point? We don’t have to wait for the Great Tribulation for the Church to experience persecution.
Just because we’re not experiencing persecution personally doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.
You may have a point because satan is a disrupter and he focuses on keeping new believers from coming into the sheepfold. I've also noticed that in the countries where Christianity is banned, the gospel is spreading like a flood and new believers are coming into the church in droves while in the west there's been a decline. I follow Open Doors and they give regular updates on persecution of Christians and it's in the oppressive countries like you mentioned China, N Korea, Islamic countries, where the persecution is greatest. Praying for them for endurance and God's comfort.
 

Lovin Jesus

Well-Known Member
I never thought we would even make it this far. I tend to think it "could be possible" for the OWG to at least be formed before the rapture because as Paul says the man of lawlessness will not be revealed until the restrainer is taken out of the way, our rapture. Following Daniel 7:7-8 note what it says

"there before me was a fourth beast—terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns.

8 “While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully."

Isn't it possible the OWG could be in place with the church still here but be raptured before the "little horn", the AC rises out of the ten horned (nations) OWG from when three will be subdued? I think AC would be revealed at least when he confirms the covenant with many or at some point after.

If we know the man of lawlessness won't be revealed until the restrainer is taken out of the way, I'd the OWG is put in place before the rapture, In think the rapture may take place some time before the fall of the three out of the ten horned kingdom (Dan. 7:8) because it's at this point the AC rises into power. The foundation of the OWG is already being planned with the globalists push for the great reset. We'll see what happens at the upcoming WEF conference this year. The Demonrats are working hard to make America collapse. With the fall of America as a world power that may be what the globalists need to move forward with their plan. I'm watching The Middle East closely because Ezekiel 38 is getting close to coming to fulfilment. We may see that war begin but we will be In heaven to watch the finish. But, it's not etched in stone, lol, it's just my opinion.
I have to apologize for my repetitiveness in my posts on this thread. I must be tired because I hadn't realized I posted basically the same thing three times. I'm sorry.
 

Wings Like Eagles

Well-Known Member
Good post.

A gap between the aftermath of the rapture and the start of the tribulation would easily allow time for the OWG to form.
It does seem likely that there would be some period of time between the Rapture and the forming of the last Beast empire. Also--somewhere in the timeline, the Temple will need to be rebuilt. The world will be left in chaos after the sudden departure of the Church and it seems that it might take TPTB to get their act together after the shock and horror sinks in. Those who belong to this world will realize that they have been left on the earth, to face the wrath of God. Those who come to Christ after the Church is gone will realize that surviving the wrath of evil men will be almost impossible. It is for their sakes that God calls a halt to that period of time. They will have the comfort of knowing exactly when Jesus will return. Even though that time will be desperately perilous they will know that they only have to survive for three and one half years from the (probably widely televised) desecration of the Temple by, Antichrist. It will be interesting to see whether the Temple is rebuilt before or after the Rapture of the Church.
 

Wings Like Eagles

Well-Known Member
I kept thinking about persecution of the Church, in these end times, yesterday and all day today. I went to Gracethrufaith with Jack Kelley and reread this Q/A that he spoke about. It was written in July of 2006...over 15 years ago. I look at how far America has descended into a country with the true Gospel being replaced by so much satanic lies and deceit from church building pulpits to most of the garbage on the so called "christian" ministries on television, radio, etc. Of course, the true Gospel is hardly being preached in any country in the world but it appears that the true Gospel is being heard and accepted most in countries such as China, Russia, Iran, etc. Because of that, I believe Satan will continue to persecute those where the Gospel is still making the most converts to Christianity. I do believe that the whole Church will continue to be persecuted in many different ways but the countries who are making the most converts are the ones Satan will continue to persecute the most.

Here is the question to Jack and his answer:

Home » Ask a Bible Teacher » Persecution Or Judgment?

Q
It seems to me many people are confused, about the difference between persecution and judgment.
Believers are promised persecution and it has been so since the dawn of the Church age. However, judgment (God’s Judgment) is only for unbelievers. What do you think?
A
As Jesus told us in John 16:33 the Church will always face persecution of one form or another.
Persecution has been the world’s response to any movement it fears and doesn’t understand and Christianity is no exception. (Of course the real force behind the persecution of the Church is Satan who understands it all too well and is preying on man’s fear.) And judgment is reserved for unbelievers.
In the west we mostly face unfair and restrictive legislation today. Maybe that’s because Satan no longer considers the western church a legitimate threat and so maintains only a harassment strategy here while turning his attention elsewhere. Most of what we call church growth here is really migration, as we move from building to building without really adding to our numbers.
But in the third world, it’s estimated that as many as 175,000 new believers are added to the heavenly roles every day, so the real persecution the Church is experiencing today is in countries like China, Africa and India.
That’s where Pastors are being imprisoned and tortured, buildings are being burned down, and believers are being attacked and raped in record numbers. Whole villages of African Christians have disappeared. In Jericho and Bethlehem, 4 out of the 5 Christians who used to live there have fled for their lives since they came under Palestinian control. Hindus broke into a Christian orphanage in India and terrorized 150 young girls living there. Similar things can be said about the Muslim response to Christianity in Indonesia with rapes, torture, and beheading. And China allows only state approved churches who agree not to preach about salvation or Heaven. Violation brings prison terms and torture. In the time it takes you to read this, about 60 seconds, two more believers will have died for their faith somewhere in the world.
What’s my point? We don’t have to wait for the Great Tribulation for the Church to experience persecution.
Just because we’re not experiencing persecution personally doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.
Yes. We must always pray for the persecuted Church around the world. Even Amnesty International (a secular organization) has said that persecution of Christians is growing rapidly and that Christians are the number one persecuted group on the planet, just in terms of sheer numbers. It has been a conservative estimate that, over the twenty centuries of the existence of the Church, there has been at least 70 million Christians who were martyred. Many millions more have experienced persecution from minor to major (but minor persecution has a way of growing into major persecution). And yet, we hear nothing from the mainstream media about the slaughter of at least 100,000 martyred Christians every year.
 

Hidden

Well-Known Member
All that talk has produced a world bank, a world criminal justice system along with its own courts, a world legislative body (The UN). I was listening to an old (within the last year) Jan Markell show and the guest named off all of the global institutions that already exist, and said the only thing we don't have is the nations of the world submitting to the world governing body. Whoever that guest was, I agree with him. The OWG is already here, it just hasn't received real authority over the nations yet, though it has been used by subsets of nations to claim authority for one action or another.

God will remove the Church before his wrath commences upon the world, but that doesn't exclude us from whatever happens between now and then. The OWG isn't something for Believers to fear. It's good to know what's coming via the Word so we're not caught off guard.

Great post, TT! The template for the NWO is already here. The technology, the buzz, the infrastructure. The NWO may or may not appear before the rapture, but all the things that have happened since the Enlightenment are worth being talked about because they all point to the eventual fulfillment of Rev 13 and 17.
 

Lovin Jesus

Well-Known Member
It does seem likely that there would be some period of time between the Rapture and the forming of the last Beast empire. Also--somewhere in the timeline, the Temple will need to be rebuilt. The world will be left in chaos after the sudden departure of the Church and it seems that it might take TPTB to get their act together after the shock and horror sinks in. Those who belong to this world will realize that they have been left on the earth, to face the wrath of God. Those who come to Christ after the Church is gone will realize that surviving the wrath of evil men will be almost impossible. It is for their sakes that God calls a halt to that period of time. They will have the comfort of knowing exactly when Jesus will return. Even though that time will be desperately perilous they will know that they only have to survive for three and one half years from the (probably widely televised) desecration of the Temple by, Antichrist. It will be interesting to see whether the Temple is rebuilt before or after the Rapture of the Church.
I think we could possibly see the temple be built before the rapture, yet I see your point that the temple could be built during the gap between the rapture and the beginning of the tribulation. The only obstacle keeping the delay in building the temple is that the Muslims have their Dome of the Rock on the temple mount and will not allow for the temple to be built there, without starting a war with the Israelis. But I read an article on the third temple by David Reagan saying there's a possibility that the Jews could put the temple up in a day if they were to put a temporary Tabernacle style tent like the one Moses put up when the Israelites we're in the wilderness, but when the AC confirms the covenant with the many the AC may have the building of the temple on the temple mount as part of the covenant for the Muslims to agree to the building of the temple next to their Dome of the Rock. I think the temple will be built next to the Dome of the Rock, or possibly during the breaking of the second seal during the red horse of war, the Dome may be burned down by a ballistic missile or it may remain there and the temple will be built next to the Muslim Dome. I'm thinking it's possible to do this the way Revelation 12:1-2 reads,

"I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers. 2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months."
Revelation 11:2-3

If this is referring to the building of the third temple it appears to me the temple will be built during the first half of the tribulation, and since the outer court of the temple measurements is to be left to the Gentiles then it is seemingly making it possible for the Temple and the Dome to coexist on the temple mount. To make a long story short......Oh and the shock of the sudden disappearance of millions of Christians, the world leaders will convince the many that the UFO's took us in their teeny aircraft that made too many fast maneuvers for the Department of Defense to be able to keep on their radar, and lost us forever leaving no trail to follow, so now that we're gone they "can own nothing and be happy'. Maranatha! Come quickly Lord Jesus!
 
Top