How many go in the rapture?

[baf]

So I've been dwelling on Luke 17:34-36

I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Should this be taken literally? In that half of the population will be raptured? I read all these surveys from pew research and it would seem that a lot less that 50% would be raptured based on their findings. Now maybe if you take all the believers (25-30%) and add all the children under the age of accountability (sp?) maybe that makes 50%? Don't know, but I imagine an immediate loss of 50% of the population would definitely create chaos. Thoughts?

 

[seated with Christ]

I believe that verse has nothing to do with the rapture, but the Great Tribulation, right Chris?

 

[ItIsFinished!]

So I've been dwelling on Luke 17:34-36

I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Should this be taken literally? In that half of the population will be raptured? I read all these surveys from pew research and it would seem that a lot less that 50% would be raptured based on their findings. Now maybe if you take all the believers (25-30%) and add all the children under the age of accountability (sp?) maybe that makes 50%? Don't know, but I imagine an immediate loss of 50% of the population would definitely create chaos. Thoughts?

Those verses are not applicable to the Rapture of The Church/Body of Christ.
Those verses are applicable to the end of the Great Tribulation after The Second Coming of Christ.

That said, NO ONE KNOWS how many will be Raptured , but Christ The Lord .

 

[LiCaMi]

So I've been dwelling on Luke 17:34-36

I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Should this be taken literally? In that half of the population will be raptured? I read all these surveys from pew research and it would seem that a lot less that 50% would be raptured based on their findings. Now maybe if you take all the believers (25-30%) and add all the children under the age of accountability (sp?) maybe that makes 50%? Don't know, but I imagine an immediate loss of 50% of the population would definitely create chaos. Thoughts?

Luke 17:34-36 is within the context of second coming. Sounds like rapture, however. Knowing that, rapture events, there would be many taken up before tribulation: first there will be dead in Christ resurrected into incorrupted body and there will be alive in Christ changed into incorrupted body. I imagine that there are more people who are saved, dead in Christ, than those who are alive in Christ. Probably a dangerous guessing here because God only knows the numbers of saved, not for us to know; we just know that there will be many up there that are impossible to count.

 

[Chris]

That said, NO ONE KNOWS how many will be Raptured , but Christ The Lord .

That's the answer in a nutshell.

 

[Everlasting Life]

“When the Son of Man returns, it will be like it was in Noah’s day. In those days, the people enjoyed banquets and parties and weddings right up to the time Noah entered his boat and the flood came and destroyed them all.

Luke 17:26-27

In the days of Noah, the unrighteousness were taken away and the righteous left on earth. This will happen again when Christ visibly returns at the end of the Tribulation. Noah was a type or forshadow of this.

Whereas, in the Rapture, spoken of in Thessalonians, comprises the righteous in Christ leaving earth in a twinkling of an eye to be with Christ.

 

[daygo]

Imo that is at the end of the tribulation where one is left to go into the millennium the other to the outer darkness via the sheep and goat judgement.

 

[RedRx]

No one really knows the number of people that will be Raptured but my expectation is to be surprised by how few people will be a part of it relative to the entire population of the world.

“Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.” Luke 13:24
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” Matt. 7:13-14

Not everyone who says to me, “Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, “Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?” And then will I declare to them, “I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.” Matt. 7:21–23

 

[lightofmylife]

NO ONE KNOWS

The Bible doesn't give us a percentage or number of people who is raptured, and the same as what month, day, and year is the rapture. Even doesn't know only the Father does.

 

[katt]

This chapter is controversial. My thoughts on the matter are, If this is during or even the end of The Tribulation, why and how are a Tribulation Saint and an AC worshipper able to even be together? Much less in the same bed, tilling the same land etc. all at the same time? People without the mark are not only unable to buy and sell, they won't be able to work especially with those that wear the mark and they are also way to busy running for their lives to even think about hobnobbing with the marked bunch who by the way are the ones they are running and hiding from, because the marked bunch are trying to kill them.

So, coupling the way this chapter reads with what I know about The Tribulation, the teaching that this is not the rapture? Makes no sense to me at all.

 

[Will_2028]

So I've been dwelling on Luke 17:34-36

I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Should this be taken literally? In that half of the population will be raptured? I read all these surveys from pew research and it would seem that a lot less that 50% would be raptured based on their findings. Now maybe if you take all the believers (25-30%) and add all the children under the age of accountability (sp?) maybe that makes 50%? Don't know, but I imagine an immediate loss of 50% of the population would definitely create chaos. Thoughts?

From the studies I’ve seen on this passage, the next verse answers the question about where the ones that are taken go. Apparently the disciples present pondered the same thing we do now.

‭‭Luke‬ ‭17‬:‭37‬ ‭CSB
““Where, Lord?” they asked him. He said to them, “Where the corpse is, there also the vultures will be gathered.””

‬https://bible.com/bible/1713/luk.17.37.CSB

So it appears they are taken in judgement at then end of the tribulation.

 

[katt]

From the studies I’ve seen on this passage, the next verse answers the question about where the ones that are taken go. Apparently the disciples present pondered the same thing we do now.

‭‭Luke‬ ‭17‬:‭37‬ ‭CSB
““Where, Lord?” they asked him. He said to them, “Where the corpse is, there also the vultures will be gathered.””

‬https://bible.com/bible/1713/luk.17.37.CSB

So it appears they are taken in judgement at then end of the tribulation.

I know this is what the scripture says, but the theological explanation of it makes no Tribulational sense. In the tribulation I guarantee a marked person and an unmarked person will not be sharing a bed, nor will they be working beside one another in a field or anywhere else. There has got to be another explanation for this verse and until I read or hear something that makes tribulational sense to me, I'm going to continue to believe, this is The Rapture.

 

[Shannon70]

This chapter is controversial. My thoughts on the matter are, If this is during or even the end of The Tribulation, why and how are a Tribulation Saint and an AC worshipper able to even be together? Much less in the same bed, tilling the same land etc. all at the same time? People without the mark are not only unable to buy and sell, they won't be able to work especially with those that wear the mark and they are also way to busy running for their lives to even think about hobnobbing with the marked bunch who by the way are the ones they are running and hiding from, because the marked bunch are trying to kill them.

So, coupling the way this chapter reads with what I know about The Tribulation, the teaching that this is not the rapture? Makes no sense to me at all.

Those marked bunch are "zombies"

 

[Chris]

Perhaps this will help?

Luke 17, The Lord’s Other End Times Prophecy
A Bible Study by Jack Kelley

Our Lord gave us a pretty thorough overview of the End Times as they relate to Israel. It’s often called the Olivet Discourse because He was speaking to four of His disciples on the Mt. Of Olives. It was just a couple of days before He was arrested, and they asked Him about the End of the Age. Matthew’s account of His answer is in chapters 24-25. Mark’s is contained in chapter 13. Luke’s version is a little different in that it also includes a prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. You’ll find it in his 21st chapter.

Since the Lord was answering questions about Israel’s future and His 2nd Coming, the focus was decidedly Jewish, so we don’t learn anything about the Church from studying it. But understanding how things will progress for Israel gives us a background that makes Paul’s prophecies about the church in the End Times, which came 20 years later, easier to understand. Paul’s letters to the Thessalonians, written about 51 AD, officially introduced the notion of the Rapture and its timing to the early church, and contain clarifying information about the anti-Christ and the withdrawal of the Holy Spirit as well. The 2nd Coming is referred to in every chapter of these two letters, for an average of once in every 13 verses.

In Luke 17:20-37, the Lord gave us some additional information about the time of His coming that’s often overlooked. But after you’ve gained the Jewish perspective from the Olivet Discourse and the Christian one from Paul’s letters, you can use Luke 17 to double check your understanding of the End times, and see if you’ve gotten it right. The fact that Luke 17 shares some language with the Olivet Discourse gives us a hint that they’re meant to be related. Let’s take a look.

Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:20-21)

Right off the bat, the Lord threw us a curve to make sure we’re paying attention. It came in the form of the word translated “within”. He was responding to the Pharisees who had posed the question, and the Kingdom of God was not within them because they weren’t believers. So what was He trying to tell us? Well, it turns out that the word can also mean “in the midst of”, and the Kingdom was in the midst of them. He was the personification of the Kingdom and He was standing right in front of them. Some translations, the NIV for example, offer “among” as an alternate to “within” in verse 21.

To the Pharisees it was only true that the Kingdom was among them. But once the Holy Spirit was given, the Kingdom would also be within all believers. At that point, both of these interpretations would become true. The Kingdom of God is within us, and we are in the midst of the world. This is the spiritual, or invisible phase of the Kingdom. But as we’ll see it’s not the final phase.

Then he said to his disciples, “The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it. Men will tell you, ‘There he is!’ or ‘Here he is!’ Do not go running off after them. For the Son of Man in his day will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other. But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. (Luke 17:22-25)

After being rejected and executed by the leaders of His generation, the Lord would go away, and only the invisible phase of the Kingdom would remain. It’s called the Church. But then He would return and when He did there would be no mistaking it. The second coming will light up the entire sky, and the visible phase of the Kingdom will begin.

This is a clue as to why the Church and Israel are mutually exclusive in the world. The Kingdom of God began with Israel. He had Moses tell them so. “Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.” (Exodus 19:5-6)

But then because of their disobedience it was taken away from Israel and given to the Church. In Matt. 21:43 Jesus said. “Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.”

But this wasn’t to be permanent. After the Church disappears, the Kingdom will be restored to Israel. The early Church understood this, as evidenced by James’ prophecy in Acts 15:13-18 where he said that the Lord would first take from among the Gentiles a people for Himself, and after that would return to rebuild David’s fallen tabernacle. Later Paul confirmed this, saying that Israel had been hardened in part until the full number of Gentiles come in, and after that Israel would be saved. (Romans 11:25-27)

The Days Of Noah​

“Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.” (Luke 17:26-27)

Like it was in Noah’s time most people on Earth at the End of the Age will be unaware that life as they know it is about to end, not because they haven’t been warned but because they haven’t believed the warning. Noah is used as a model of the believing remnant of Israel at the end of the age, preserved through the judgment while the world is destroyed. Noah and his family remained in the general location of the judgment while the unbelievers were swept away in the flood.

At the End of the Age Israel’s believing remnant will remain in the general location of the judgment but will be preserved while the Lord completely destroys the nations around them. Speaking of the time of Jacob’s Trouble (the Great Tribulation) in Jere. 30:11 the Lord said,

I am with you and will save you,’ declares the LORD. ‘Though I completely destroy all the nations among which I scatter you, I will not completely destroy you.”

In the symbolic language of Revelation the Jewish remnant is represented by a woman, while Satan is called the serpent.

The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. (Rev. 12:14)

The Lord used this same terminology to describe the manner in which He delivered Israel from Pharaoh’s Army in the Exodus. “You yourselves have seen what I did to Egypt, and how I carried you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself.” (Exodus 19:4)

The Days Of Lot​

“It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.” (Luke 17:28-29)

At first glance this seems like another similar example. But it’s really very different. Lot was taken away from the location of the judgment to a place of safety. In fact the angels who were sent to remove him said they couldn’t bring the judgment on Sodom and Gomorrah until Lot was away and safe. (Genesis 19:21-22) He was rescued from the out pouring of God’s wrath on Sodom and Gomorrah before it began.

In this sense, Lot becomes a model of the Church. Paul explained that the Church would be rescued from the time of God’s Wrath on the Earth as well. They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath. (1 Thes.1:9-10)

The Greek word translated “from” in verse 10 means the Church will be removed from the time or place or any relation to the coming wrath. Just like it was with Lot and the judgment of Sodom , we have to be away and safe before the End Times judgment of Earth can begin.

I’ve often said that Jesus didn’t teach the doctrine of the Rapture and didn’t even tell His disciples about it. But if you already know it’s coming you can find hints of it in the Gospels. This is one of them, and by using Lot as a model the Lord confirmed the timing. Before the judgment.

“It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. On that day no one who is on the roof of his house, with his goods inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. Remember Lot’s wife! Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.”

“Where, Lord?” they asked.

He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.” (Luke 17:30-37)

In Matt. 24:17-18 Jesus warned the people alive at the beginning of the Great Tribulation not to go back into their houses for anything but to flee quickly, so it’s reasonable to assume He means the same thing here. It wouldn’t make any sense for Him to be speaking of the actual day of His return because by then it will be too late to run. Those who cling to the ways of this world at the beginning of the Great Tribulation will find themselves losing everything. But those who abandon them in favor of the next world will gain eternal life. I think Lot’s wife is a graphic model of those “in-name-only” Christians who attend church and even do lots of good things, but aren’t born again. Though they claim to be Christians, their hearts continue to long for the things of this world. When the time comes they’ll be left behind, and many will perish in the End Times judgments.

As in Matt. 24:40-41 the word translated “taken” literally means received, and the word for “left” means to put away, as in a divorce. After the Lord returns, some tribulation survivors will be received directly into the Kingdom. They will have become believers after the rapture and will be welcomed into the Kingdom as their reward. But those who have persisted in their unbelief will be put away, off the planet, in the place prepared for the devil and his angels (Matt. 25:41) This statement summarizes the judgments the Lord will conduct just after His return. Matt. 25 describes then in detail.

Some read a lot of symbolism into the comment about dead bodies and a vulture, but I see it as a simple parable. Vultures don’t gather any place in the sky except over the carcass of a dead body. The dead body is really the purpose of their gathering, it’s where they belong. The use of this parable was just the Lord’s way of answering the disciples’ question, “Where, Lord?” which pertains to both groups. He said each group will be gathered to the place where they belong. Believers will be received to Him and will enter the Kingdom. Unbelievers will be put away, taken off the planet. It’s a summary of the Sheep and Goat judgment, and does not describe the rapture.

So in Luke 17:20-37 the Lord explained the two phases of the Kingdom, the invisible phase (the Church) and the visible one (the Millennial Kingdom). He said he was going away and then coming back, and that His 2nd Coming will be physical just like His first one. He also said there will be three groups on Earth at the time. A believing remnant will be preserved through the End Times judgments that precede His return (Israel), another group of believers will be removed to a place of safety before the judgments begin (the Church), and a third group called Tribulation survivors. Upon His return, some of the Tribulation survivors will be received into the Kingdom as a reward for believing, while the rest will be sent to the place prepared for the devil and his angels for refusing to believe. It’s a remarkable overview of the Great Tribulation and 2nd Coming. You can almost hear the footsteps of the Messiah.

https://gracethrufaith.com/end-times-prophecy/luke-17-the-lords-other-end-times-prophecy/

 

[glc11]

Perhaps this will help?

Luke 17, The Lord’s Other End Times Prophecy
A Bible Study by Jack Kelley

Our Lord gave us a pretty thorough overview of the End Times as they relate to Israel. It’s often called the Olivet Discourse because He was speaking to four of His disciples on the Mt. Of Olives. It was just a couple of days before He was arrested, and they asked Him about the End of the Age. Matthew’s account of His answer is in chapters 24-25. Mark’s is contained in chapter 13. Luke’s version is a little different in that it also includes a prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. You’ll find it in his 21st chapter.

Since the Lord was answering questions about Israel’s future and His 2nd Coming, the focus was decidedly Jewish, so we don’t learn anything about the Church from studying it. But understanding how things will progress for Israel gives us a background that makes Paul’s prophecies about the church in the End Times, which came 20 years later, easier to understand. Paul’s letters to the Thessalonians, written about 51 AD, officially introduced the notion of the Rapture and its timing to the early church, and contain clarifying information about the anti-Christ and the withdrawal of the Holy Spirit as well. The 2nd Coming is referred to in every chapter of these two letters, for an average of once in every 13 verses.

In Luke 17:20-37, the Lord gave us some additional information about the time of His coming that’s often overlooked. But after you’ve gained the Jewish perspective from the Olivet Discourse and the Christian one from Paul’s letters, you can use Luke 17 to double check your understanding of the End times, and see if you’ve gotten it right. The fact that Luke 17 shares some language with the Olivet Discourse gives us a hint that they’re meant to be related. Let’s take a look.

Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:20-21)

Right off the bat, the Lord threw us a curve to make sure we’re paying attention. It came in the form of the word translated “within”. He was responding to the Pharisees who had posed the question, and the Kingdom of God was not within them because they weren’t believers. So what was He trying to tell us? Well, it turns out that the word can also mean “in the midst of”, and the Kingdom was in the midst of them. He was the personification of the Kingdom and He was standing right in front of them. Some translations, the NIV for example, offer “among” as an alternate to “within” in verse 21.

To the Pharisees it was only true that the Kingdom was among them. But once the Holy Spirit was given, the Kingdom would also be within all believers. At that point, both of these interpretations would become true. The Kingdom of God is within us, and we are in the midst of the world. This is the spiritual, or invisible phase of the Kingdom. But as we’ll see it’s not the final phase.

Then he said to his disciples, “The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it. Men will tell you, ‘There he is!’ or ‘Here he is!’ Do not go running off after them. For the Son of Man in his day will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other. But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. (Luke 17:22-25)

After being rejected and executed by the leaders of His generation, the Lord would go away, and only the invisible phase of the Kingdom would remain. It’s called the Church. But then He would return and when He did there would be no mistaking it. The second coming will light up the entire sky, and the visible phase of the Kingdom will begin.

This is a clue as to why the Church and Israel are mutually exclusive in the world. The Kingdom of God began with Israel. He had Moses tell them so. “Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.” (Exodus 19:5-6)

But then because of their disobedience it was taken away from Israel and given to the Church. In Matt. 21:43 Jesus said. “Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.”

But this wasn’t to be permanent. After the Church disappears, the Kingdom will be restored to Israel. The early Church understood this, as evidenced by James’ prophecy in Acts 15:13-18 where he said that the Lord would first take from among the Gentiles a people for Himself, and after that would return to rebuild David’s fallen tabernacle. Later Paul confirmed this, saying that Israel had been hardened in part until the full number of Gentiles come in, and after that Israel would be saved. (Romans 11:25-27)

The Days Of Noah​

“Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.” (Luke 17:26-27)

Like it was in Noah’s time most people on Earth at the End of the Age will be unaware that life as they know it is about to end, not because they haven’t been warned but because they haven’t believed the warning. Noah is used as a model of the believing remnant of Israel at the end of the age, preserved through the judgment while the world is destroyed. Noah and his family remained in the general location of the judgment while the unbelievers were swept away in the flood.

At the End of the Age Israel’s believing remnant will remain in the general location of the judgment but will be preserved while the Lord completely destroys the nations around them. Speaking of the time of Jacob’s Trouble (the Great Tribulation) in Jere. 30:11 the Lord said,

I am with you and will save you,’ declares the LORD. ‘Though I completely destroy all the nations among which I scatter you, I will not completely destroy you.”

In the symbolic language of Revelation the Jewish remnant is represented by a woman, while Satan is called the serpent.

The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. (Rev. 12:14)

The Lord used this same terminology to describe the manner in which He delivered Israel from Pharaoh’s Army in the Exodus. “You yourselves have seen what I did to Egypt, and how I carried you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself.” (Exodus 19:4)

The Days Of Lot​

“It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.” (Luke 17:28-29)

At first glance this seems like another similar example. But it’s really very different. Lot was taken away from the location of the judgment to a place of safety. In fact the angels who were sent to remove him said they couldn’t bring the judgment on Sodom and Gomorrah until Lot was away and safe. (Genesis 19:21-22) He was rescued from the out pouring of God’s wrath on Sodom and Gomorrah before it began.

In this sense, Lot becomes a model of the Church. Paul explained that the Church would be rescued from the time of God’s Wrath on the Earth as well. They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath. (1 Thes.1:9-10)

The Greek word translated “from” in verse 10 means the Church will be removed from the time or place or any relation to the coming wrath. Just like it was with Lot and the judgment of Sodom , we have to be away and safe before the End Times judgment of Earth can begin.

I’ve often said that Jesus didn’t teach the doctrine of the Rapture and didn’t even tell His disciples about it. But if you already know it’s coming you can find hints of it in the Gospels. This is one of them, and by using Lot as a model the Lord confirmed the timing. Before the judgment.

“It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. On that day no one who is on the roof of his house, with his goods inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. Remember Lot’s wife! Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.”

“Where, Lord?” they asked.

He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.” (Luke 17:30-37)

In Matt. 24:17-18 Jesus warned the people alive at the beginning of the Great Tribulation not to go back into their houses for anything but to flee quickly, so it’s reasonable to assume He means the same thing here. It wouldn’t make any sense for Him to be speaking of the actual day of His return because by then it will be too late to run. Those who cling to the ways of this world at the beginning of the Great Tribulation will find themselves losing everything. But those who abandon them in favor of the next world will gain eternal life. I think Lot’s wife is a graphic model of those “in-name-only” Christians who attend church and even do lots of good things, but aren’t born again. Though they claim to be Christians, their hearts continue to long for the things of this world. When the time comes they’ll be left behind, and many will perish in the End Times judgments.

As in Matt. 24:40-41 the word translated “taken” literally means received, and the word for “left” means to put away, as in a divorce. After the Lord returns, some tribulation survivors will be received directly into the Kingdom. They will have become believers after the rapture and will be welcomed into the Kingdom as their reward. But those who have persisted in their unbelief will be put away, off the planet, in the place prepared for the devil and his angels (Matt. 25:41) This statement summarizes the judgments the Lord will conduct just after His return. Matt. 25 describes then in detail.

Some read a lot of symbolism into the comment about dead bodies and a vulture, but I see it as a simple parable. Vultures don’t gather any place in the sky except over the carcass of a dead body. The dead body is really the purpose of their gathering, it’s where they belong. The use of this parable was just the Lord’s way of answering the disciples’ question, “Where, Lord?” which pertains to both groups. He said each group will be gathered to the place where they belong. Believers will be received to Him and will enter the Kingdom. Unbelievers will be put away, taken off the planet. It’s a summary of the Sheep and Goat judgment, and does not describe the rapture.

So in Luke 17:20-37 the Lord explained the two phases of the Kingdom, the invisible phase (the Church) and the visible one (the Millennial Kingdom). He said he was going away and then coming back, and that His 2nd Coming will be physical just like His first one. He also said there will be three groups on Earth at the time. A believing remnant will be preserved through the End Times judgments that precede His return (Israel), another group of believers will be removed to a place of safety before the judgments begin (the Church), and a third group called Tribulation survivors. Upon His return, some of the Tribulation survivors will be received into the Kingdom as a reward for believing, while the rest will be sent to the place prepared for the devil and his angels for refusing to believe. It’s a remarkable overview of the Great Tribulation and 2nd Coming. You can almost hear the footsteps of the Messiah.

https://gracethrufaith.com/end-times-prophecy/luke-17-the-lords-other-end-times-prophecy/

Well
That was a little stressful to read!

 

[Chris]

Well
That was a little stressful to read!

Why is that?

 

[glc11]

Why is that?

Sorry… it’s a good article and I learned a lot.

I think it’s was more about Jack Kelly’s choice of words. I like his writings, but this one was written in a format that sounded subjective. Statements like “the Lord threw us a curve..” , “at first glance this seems..”, “..this is a clue…”, “.. some read a lot of symbolism….. but I read it as a parable…”

I feel like I need to read it a few more times for me to connect all the dots.

I didn’t mean to sound rude.

 

[glc11]

This chapter is controversial. My thoughts on the matter are, If this is during or even the end of The Tribulation, why and how are a Tribulation Saint and an AC worshipper able to even be together? Much less in the same bed, tilling the same land etc. all at the same time? People without the mark are not only unable to buy and sell, they won't be able to work especially with those that wear the mark and they are also way to busy running for their lives to even think about hobnobbing with the marked bunch who by the way are the ones they are running and hiding from, because the marked bunch are trying to kill them.

So, coupling the way this chapter reads with what I know about The Tribulation, the teaching that this is not the rapture? Makes no sense to me at all.

This thread is very interesting to me because I always thought this was referring to the rapture as well.

 

[usoutpost31]

I know this is what the scripture says, but the theological explanation of it makes no Tribulational sense. In the tribulation I guarantee a marked person and an unmarked person will not be sharing a bed, nor will they be working beside one another in a field or anywhere else. There has got to be another explanation for this verse and until I read or hear something that makes tribulational sense to me, I'm going to continue to believe, this is The Rapture.

There are some that suggest this is a reference to the dividing of the righteous and the unrighteous. The wheat and the tares grow together until the harvest. (Matt 13:30). The sheep and the goats are together until they are separated at the judgement. (Matt 25:31-46).

The point of this seems to be that a person cannot claim proximity to the righteous to protect his or herself from being judged. They might have lived with believers, worked with them, been part of the same family, but that won't matter at the end.

 

[Matthew6:33]

Confusing the Olivet discourse with rapture teaching is a common misconception by many well meaning Christians. Not saying that I am somehow wiser, I used to have the wrong belief on it too. The key is the context. Jesus is speaking to Jacob/Israel not the Church. Scripture is so multifaceted - much of the teaching was even applicable shortly after Jesus' time. Jerusalem was destroyed in 70AD by the Romans. Some of the Olivet teaching was even a warning to the Church during this time to flee Jerusalem as soon as there was evidence of army approaching. When the Romans laid seige, there was no way out, and the conditions were drastic at that time with many in the city resorting to cannibalism. Anyone trapped inside saw no way out other than death. Yet the believers who knew the scriptures fled before the siege took place. Preterism teaches that this was what Revelation was teaching, yet it was not, another false doctrine. I believe Roman siege on Jerusalem was maybe a foreshadowing of things to come in the future. Again, another example of the omnipresence of God's word. Applicable today and years past. Truly amazing.