Help with Jehovah's Witnesses

SoulSinger

SoulSinger
All other religions attack the --trinity--and they put Jesus in a lesser spot
Aye..... that seems to be a favorite target of the devil, the trinity and deity of Christ. The emergent churches all do the same thing I've noticed..... including "The Shack"..... feminizing it, humanizing it, and making Jesus less than He is.

Heck, some of these emergent "Christian" churches make JW's seem more "Christian" at times!!!! :ohno:tsk:
 

Robert

Well-Known Member
:bump: bumping this thread; the info in this thread is extremely valuable and I think our newer members would benefit greatly from it!! :thumbup
 

Any Minute

Tetelestai !!
Very informative thread, thanks for making a sticky.

IMHO, with so much apostasy and turning away of true faith, the J.W.'s seem to be flying under the radar. They are very active in my area, but if the articles and first hand accounts I've seen and heard are true, then thankfully their numbers may be on the decline. On the rare occasions that I see my brother (a devout J.W. who lives about a mile from me) even he says they are struggling to get people to convert. Many that he witnesses:ohno to, mostly reject any type of faith though, he's not very effective with anyone with true biblical faith.
I have noticed that they seem to be the most effective with people who:
1. claim to be Christian but have little biblical knowledge or don't practice what they profess
2. people who are suffering from different life exeperiences such as divorce, deaths, sickness, social problems, rejection from other faiths, ect..
These are just personal observations and by no means cover the spectrum of why people turn to this cult for what ever reason.
I wonder if much growth comes from with in, converting spouses, children, other family members? This has been the case with my family.

I have noticed with him and many other family members who are J.W.'s that they seem to take great pride and satisfaction with the inevitable rejection they receive while door knocking. They are taught that it is a form godly persecution and to expect as much from those who reject The Good News (their version), it actually makes him feel better about what he is doing. I have to hope that much of that satisfaction is outward and that he is not so hardened to the truth that he'll never repent.

They have a very structured system in place, their 'organization', and when not out witnessing they tend to stay within their own circles of fellow J.W's or at least around those who aren't hostile towards them.
I can say from my limited experience with them, it is a very manipulative, works based, fear driven, reward seeking group. (sadly many main stream Christian denoms are also)
My brother is very learned in their NWT and when reading anything including his KJV it is always done through the lens of the Watchtower, so I have found it very difficult to share any of Gods unaltered Word with him. He has been so conditioned to reject any outside influence that conversations about scripture tend to get very heated. At this point I have chosen to remain seperated from them because they have so far been unwilling to look at anything outside of their approved sources. If the opportunity is presented again, I hope to be able to put some of the information given in this thread to use. There are also some good books and websites on how to witness to the Witnesses although I haven't seen any data on how effective it is. Doesn't matter though, we just plant seeds at every opportunity God gives us and if only 1 comes to saving faith in Jesus, then it is well worth the effort to be prepared.

:pray:ing for all who are lost, with no hope outside of Jesus. Also for the believers who have lost loved one's, it is such a heart breaking experience to know what awaites them.
 

mattfivefour

Administrator
Staff member
I agree with everything you have written, bro. Not jsut about the difficultyof reaching JW's, but the reasons people turn to them. (I also agree with your comments about many Chjristian denominations following a legalistic "gospel".

The reason I like the witnessing method outlined in the OP is that it uses their own NWT. Makes it much harder for them to argue with it. They can claim the KJV and all other translations are wrong; but when they see it in their own translation, they are stymied.
 

nillapoet

Well-Known Member
I had some JWs come by yesterday and was not prepared whatsoever. I alluded to the fact that Genesis says The Word was with God and the Word was God.And that later in the Bible Jesus is referred to as the Word. Well the guy kept saying it's a grammatical error because it's not logical to be with some one and yet be them. I had no idea how else to discuss it with him because he was basically admitting his translation was either wrong or he was (in regards to Jesus and God being one) and he wouldn't admit that he was wrong.

He went on to say that the trinity isn't even in the Bible. I wasn't sure how to handle that claim as I wasn't prepared on that one.

I felt like I was unprepared but it sounds like I did an ok job. What could I have said to point to the trinity as being fact in his Bible though?
 

mattfivefour

Administrator
Staff member
There are many places in the bible where the Trinity can be seen. For example, putting the Genesis creation account (where we see God and His Spirit) together with John 1:3, Colossians 1:16 and Hebrews 1:2 shows the Trinity clearly. but in Isaiah 48:16 is one very clear statement of the Trinity: ""Come near to Me, listen to this: From the first I have not spoken in secret, From the time it took place, I was there. And now the Lord GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit." Clearly the one speaking who claims to have been there in the beginning has to be Messiah and HE says God and the Spirit have sent Him. Hence all three persons are there.

The Trinity is plainly revealed in Scripture (both NT and OT) to those whose eyes are opened. But some people refuse to see it because they cannot understand it.
 

nillapoet

Well-Known Member
Thank you. I knew there were quite a few references. I just didn't have anything off the top of my head at the time. :((
 

David_A_Reed

Come, Lord Jesus!
. . . What could I have said to point to the trinity as being fact in his Bible though?
Good points in all these posts -- a very useful thread!

JWs are taught that the Trinity is a three-headed false god invented by Satan the Devil. So, the Trinity doctrine is often the most difficult thing for a JW to grasp, even when leaving the Watchtower organization.

I try to take it one step at a time with them, showing them first in their own New World Translation (which is the only 'Bible' they trust) that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. They already know that the Father is God, and that there is only one true God. So, if you can show them that Jesus is God and that the Holy Spirit is God, then they are forced to consider the Trinity doctrine as an explanation of how that can be so.

Isaiah 9:6 is one good place to start. JWs admit that “Mighty God” here refers to Jesus (even though they consider Jesus to be the first angel God created). But they say that Jesus is not “Almighty God”—a term they reserve for the Father alone. Ask the JW ask to turn over a page or two from Isaiah 9:6 and read Isaiah 10:21-22 where his own Bible shows that Jehovah is "the Mighty God.": “. . . those remaining over of Israel . . . will certainly support themselves upon Jehovah, the Holy One of Israel, in trueness. A mere remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob, to the Mighty God.” So, Jesus and the Father are both "the Mighty God."

Then go on to show them that Jesus is Almighty God. Hebrews 1:3 says Jesus is “upholding all things by the word of his power.” Some translations render this as “he upholds the universe by the word of his power.” (ESV) Wouldn’t he have to be almighty to do that? Matthew 28:18 says Jesus has “all power . . . in heaven and earth.” (KJV) Having “all power” is what Almighty means.

You can also show JWs John 8:58 where Jesus refers to Himself as the "I AM" -- although you need to get the JW to open his interlinear translation to prove this. But you can show that even Jesus' enemies got the point. The next verse tells us, “Therefore they took up stones to throw at him.” (John 8:59) And we read a bit further on, “Therefore Jews took up stones again to stone him. . . . The Jews answered him, ‘We don’t stone you for a good work, but for blasphemy: because you, being a man, make yourself God.’” (John 10:31-33)

Next, JWs need to be shown that the Holy Spirit is God. JWs don't capitalize 'holy spirit' and believe that 'it' is not even a person -- just a force God uses to get things done.

So, ask them to turn to Acts chapter 5. Peter says here that when Ananias was emboldened to “lie to the Holy Spirit” he lied “to God.” (verse 4) So, the Holy Spirit must be God. (Could someone lie to an impersonal force?) You can also use the JWs’ own Bible to that show the Holy Spirit feels hurt (Isa. 63:10), speaks (Acts 13:2), bears witness (John 15:26) and says whatever He hears (John 16:13)—things only a person can do.

Once a JW sees that Scripture identifies Jesus as God, and the Holy Spirit as God, then he is forced to consider the Trinity doctrine.

David
 

Ducati

Well-Known Member
My question.

If the "governing body" of the WTBTS are not Greek or Hebrew scholars ... then how do they come up with there "New World Translation" as being taken directly from the original Greek and Hebrew manuscripts ?

Every Saturday while I'm at work I get approached with there magazines. I feel if you can get them to question there "bible" on its validity then there on there way to discovering the real Bible.

Thanks.
 

bookworm1711

New Member
Many years ago the JWs came to my apartment to teach me about the Bible. We met for four years. Then I moved. Most likely they do not stay with a person for that much study anymore.

My most recent involvement in a home study with the JWs coming to see me led to an unexpected result. We were doing a "book study." The book had questions for each paragraph at the bottom of the page. I dutifully answered them. One of the paragraphs made a most interesting link to Isaiah 55:3. I asked the Watchtower visitor/"teacher" if he could explain or find out more about that verse. He said he would check his Watchtower literature indexes and bring me the results.

He came back with just one page with an incidental reference to Isaiah 55:3, no discussion or explanation.

I said that I, too, decided to dig a little into that verse. I asked if I could share my results with him. He said he would welcome them.

I shared the cross references printed out without any comment for Isaiah 55:3. I took the references from my working manuscript for my eventual book, The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge. I printed off the page that contained references for that verse and gave it to him.

He came back the next time telling me over and over that he knew I was right, and that he and the Watchtower were wrong. Now realize I had not said a word to him about the issue. I just gave him the cross references. But the Lord used the study of His written Word in this manner to open his eyes, but he admitted he had to reject the light he had seen. He said he could not leave the Watchtower, for that would break up his family and destroy the customer base for his business. He concluded by saying at least he knew he would only "die like a dog," since he did not believe in eternal punishment.

That experience has convinced me that one simple way to reach a Jehovah's Witness is to have them get into the Word by means of cross references, if they are willing to simply open the Bible and read the verses for themselves.

The opening post on this thread most certainly provides some good Scripture to share directly. Consider the power of the Word of God, and how God can use it to reach even a lost JW by the use of cross references. I have since been in contact by the Internet with a former JW who found faith in Christ when he read the Bible for himself and discovered what he had been taught by the Watchtower does not match what he read in Scripture. His name is Kevin Quick. You'll find his testimony is readily available on the Internet. In fact, I recall that he has participated here on discussion threads in this Rapture Forum in the past, but I do not recall his board name, and that is how I first learned of him.
 
Last edited:

mattfivefour

Administrator
Staff member
Yes, we are permitting it to be mentioned here by the author, but have removed the link in accordance with board rules. However, if anybody is interested in seeing it and possibly purchasing it, just Google "doorstep bible" and you will find the link. From a limited look, it appears to me to be a fantastic resource! The author, David A. Reed, is a respected Bible teacher and author of close to a dozen books on cults who spent more than a decade as a contributing editor to Dr. Walter Martin's solid Christian Research Journal.
 
Top