Hebrews 10:26 If I Go On Willfully Sinning, There Remains No More Sacrifice For Sin?!

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borrowedtime

Well-Known Member
This was something I found in one of the publications on the Jehovah Witnesses Web site under the title of How Can You Be Saved? The main points were made bold by me.

"Thus, once you are in the way of salvation, exert yourself to stay in it. You cannot earn salvation by works; faith is what is needed. But you do need to exercise your faith by practical works that give proof of it."
So you do not earn your salvation by works, but you must do works to get saved. Oh sure, that makes sense, not!!! :calvin

Fruit inspectors.

Grace is unearned. Grace is undeserved and yes I will continue to sin and be in sin as my flesh is sin but I am redeemed.

So best of luck to all the fruit inspectors as I continue to live a life they won’t deem acceptable (like not going to church)
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
However, If I could not walk away from God then I don't have free will.
God knows every decision a person has made, and will make until their final breath, and yes, its free will. Since God would know that a person would eventually walk away, why would God indwell that person with the Holy Spirit? If someone has the ability to walk away, they were never His to begin with.

1 John 2:18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.

19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
 

UntilTheWholeWorldHears

Well-Known Member
Can you post ONE example where a Christian in the NT unsaved himself/herself? How would that even work? Does God the Father, tell the Holy Spirit “we made a mistake here, pack it up and depart from him/her?

I thought you believed in OSAS?

Andy, I believe that I can not lose my salvation.

I believe that all human beings have free will. That free will, gives us the ability to choose.

I can't think of anyone in the NT that has walked away from their salvation.

The closest I see in scripture is Judas. He walked with God and fellowship with God. Yet, he chose to betray him.
 

Hol

Worships Him
Can you post ONE example where a Christian in the NT unsaved himself/herself? How would that even work? Does God the Father, tell the Holy Spirit “we made a mistake here, pack it up and depart from him/her?

I thought you believed in OSAS?
My first thought was of Acts 5:1, Ananias & Sapphira who tried to deceive the Holy Spirit.

After they died, they went to Heaven to be with Jesus, as all believers do. But, they suffered a severe loss of rewards.

Remember righteous Lot too.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
My first thought was of Acts 5:1, Ananias & Sapphira who tried to deceive the Holy Spirit.

After they died, they went to Heaven to be with Jesus, as all believers do. But, they suffered a severe loss of rewards.

Remember righteous Lot too.
They did not renounce their faith, but lied.
 
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Hol

Worships Him
Andy, I believe that I can not lose my salvation.

I believe that all human beings have free will. That free will, gives us the ability to choose.

I can't think of anyone in the NT that has walked away from their salvation.

The closest I see in scripture is Judas. He walked with God and fellowship with God. Yet, he chose to betray him.
Hi! I agree that our free will is precious.

I like how A.W. Tozer describes humanity. There are only two types of people, the once born and the twice born (paraphrased).

My free will accepted our Heavenly Father’s call to salvation. I became ‘twice born.’

That sealed my eternal destiny, but I can still exercise my carnal free will to backslide, lie, cheat, etc. But, what I will lose should I deny Christ, is not going to change the fact that I am now ‘twice born.’
 

Hol

Worships Him
They did not renounce their faith, but lied.
You’re right, I could not think of anyone who was born again & renounced their faith. It seems that the book of Hebrews warns some who were considering renouncing their faith?
 

UntilTheWholeWorldHears

Well-Known Member
UntilTheWholeWorldHears, I am still waiting for an answer to my question of what you would tell someone to do who you think isn't saved because of their actions?

Hello, is anybody home? :snoopy

For starters, I don't know the heart, only God does!

I can tell you what I told my cousin who one day went forward and said a prayer at church to accept Jesus.

She claims it was a ”nice feeling”. Less than a year into her walk she claimed to be gay.

I told her that those that practice homosexuality as a lifestyle will not inherit the kingdom of God.

20 yrs later she is married to another woman.

I haven't seen or talked with her in over 15 yrs.

Is she going to heaven??????????
 

Jan51

Well-Known Member
Andy, I believe that I can not lose my salvation.

I believe that all human beings have free will. That free will, gives us the ability to choose.

I can't think of anyone in the NT that has walked away from their salvation.

The closest I see in scripture is Judas. He walked with God and fellowship with God. Yet, he chose to betray him.
Still waiting for you to address the two things I asked you about in post 38...
 

Hsmommy

Active Member
My free will accepted our Heavenly Father’s call to salvation. I became ‘twice born.’

That sealed my eternal destiny, but I can still exercise my carnal free will to backslide, lie, cheat, etc. But, what I will lose should I deny Christ, is not going to change the fact that I am now ‘twice born.’

I think often folks think they’re willfully turning their backs on God. They get angry with Him or whatever. They will be getting a surprise one day. They won’t be expecting to reach heaven.
 

mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
For starters, I don't know the heart, only God does!

I can tell you what I told my cousin who one day went forward and said a prayer at church to accept Jesus.

She claims it was a ”nice feeling”. Less than a year into her walk she claimed to be gay.

I told her that those that practice homosexuality as a lifestyle will not inherit the kingdom of God.

20 yrs later she is married to another woman.

I haven't seen or talked with her in over 15 yrs.

Is she going to heaven??????????
I cannot see the heart. Neither can you or anybody else. only God can do that. Having said that, it would be my feeling that your cousin was never saved in the first place.

You see, there is always a change of heart when somebody is saved. How can there not be? At salvation a person is fundamentally changed: their spirit is made alive as the Word of God pierces and separates it from the soulish nature to which it had been fused since birth. God tells us that at salvation HE delivers us from the power of darkness and transports us into the kingdom of the Son He loves, in whom we have redemption through His blood, and the forgiveness of sins. (Colossians 1:12-13). He tells us that if we are in Christ we are made a new creation, that old things have passed away, and that ALL things have become new (2 Corinthians 5:17). But note: our change, while fundamental, begins with a change of heart. Not necessarily a change of behavior. At least not at first. Changes in behavior are the eventual product of changes in the heart. They are not the result of religious exercise or the employment of our willpower to effect the changes we want. They are the result of our changed heart desiring to please God and our crying out to Him for those changes to take place in us, setting our wills to desire His will and relying on His power to make the changes we desire.

The problem arises when we look to a person's behavior for confirmation that they are saved and then act accordingly toward them. We cannot do that. Now, as a pastor, I always want to make sure that a person has understood the gospel and indeed has believed in truth. But I walk on dangerous ground if I decide to judge their salvation by their behavior. Lot is the classic example of a person who, on the outside, would appear to have been lost; but who, as the New Testament reveals (2 Peter 2:7-8), was actually saved. A text copy of my sermon on this topic can be found here: https://www.raptureforums.com/forum...ns-is-there-such-a-thing.88506/post-842122947 . He is the perfect picture of a so-called carnal Christian. In point of fact, he is simply an example of those who never break free from a self-centered lifestyle into the freedom of a lifestyle wholly given over to God. And, by the way, those two things are not either or: there is a continuum from one to the other. And moving from the former to the latter is the ongoing, life-long process that we call sanctification.

But there is one very important thing to note about Lot's sin that will help us grasp this difficult topic. His sin arose always because his focus was on himself and what he thought was good for himself. Every sin he got involved with sprang from that basic selfishness. But he NEVER consciously and determinedly choose to take part in unholy behavior against God. He did not join his neighbors in idol worship; he did not engage in the sexual depravity that his neighbors reveled in. In fact, as God Himself reveals to us through Peter, Lot "was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked; for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds." (2 Peter 2:7) That revelation to us of his inner heart is very, very important. It reveals the difference between a heart for God and one that is unchanged—a saved heart versus an unsaved heart.

I do not believe that anybody who is truly saved would (or could) determinedly decide as time goes by to engage in things that are actually grossly anti-God. I am not saying that they cannot fall in moments of weakness. I am not saying that they will not engage in many sins of the flesh. But those who are saved and sin in gross ways always struggle with their sinfulness and will be tormented by it. The ones I am speaking of, whom I do not believe have ever been saved, are those who do not care in the least what they do and are quite content to do that which God abhors. I believe that such have never been transformed by the Holy Spirit in salvation through true faith in Christ.

Whenever I encounter such people, I am faced with a deep struggle on their behalf. How do I reach them; how do I help them? I worry about their souls deeply—as I worry about each soul that God entrusts to my care. I am burdened to pray for each one, seeking God for Him to reveal to me ways I can help them grow in the nurture and knowledge of Him, while also interceding for them that He would work in them in ways that will cause them to experience the victory He won for them at Calvary. Trust me, it takes a lot of prayer to know what to do: there are no easy answers unless God leads. And He always does. My concern for them flows from the fact that I have been called to care for their souls. My thinking is not rooted in a self-righteous assessment of their salvation; but flowers out of a burden for their soul. I hope that all who look at the behavior of others who claim Christ do so out of love for them and not out of a critical or self-righteous spirit.

Anyway, I think overall this thread has seen good discussion. But I am going to close it for now as I think the essential points have been made and further discussion of this topic in the past has shown that as it continues it usually devolves into useless argument and some hard feelings. If anybody believes they have something new to offer on this topic, please report my post and tell us what more you believe needs to be said. I am certainly willing to re-open this if it is warranted.
 
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