Harbinger II

[RonJohnSilver]

I'm not a fan of Johnathan Kahn but one of my bible study buds said that he was reading it and he really liked it. Before I read it, I'd like to know what others think about this book particularly. And maybe I need to revisit his stuff. He seemed a bit sensationalistic at first but maybe I was wrong. So, anyone read Harbinger II?

 

[LiCaMi]

Not I but I know a friend who have those books and his input on it was just interesting. He emphasize that God's words first before anything else and pray over what you are about to read, in Jesus name. Johnathan is a believer in Christ Jesus. Just that several members here has strong disagreement about him.

 

[UntilTheWholeWorldHears]

I don't know anything about the writer but his three books are on my list.

Would love to get some feedback as well on the writer and his beliefs.

 

[Lovin Jesus]

Haven’t read Harbinger 2 but did read the Harbinger as well as The Paradigm. I found an interesting outlook on the Original Harbinger which can be used for the Harbinger 2.

Question: "Does The Harbinger really predict America’s future?"

Answer: The book The Harbinger: the Ancient Mystery that holds the secret of America’s Future by Messianic Jewish Rabbi Jonathan Cahn has been a best-seller and has sparked controversy and much discussion. There is no question as to Cahn’s passion about alerting his fellow countrymen to the spiritual, economic, and moral dangers that the United States faces. But is Cahn’s interpretation of the book of Isaiah correct, and are those Old Testament prophecies applicable to modern-day America?

The back cover of the book clearly labels the book as “FICTION / Suspense,” and the line following the copyright page says, “What you are about to read is presented in the form of a story…” The rest of that sentence is ambiguous: “… but what is contained within the story is real.” If the author is saying that the book’s content is a real message from God to the USA, then it is important to examine his view of the meaning of biblical prophecy.

The story’s opening dialogue reads, “An ancient mystery that holds the secret to America’s future.” This attention-getting assertion is made by the story’s narrator and lead character, journalist Nouriel Kaplan. Kaplan is attempting to persuade Ana Goren, a media executive, to publish information that Kaplan believes will affect the economic, political, military, moral, and spiritual future of the United States. Even though Cahn presents this information in a fictional vehicle, he asserts that it is “real.” Is it?

In the story, a nameless prophet meets Kaplan on a number of occasions, giving him information about how recent events, including the World Trade Center terrorist attacks of 9/11, the housing boom, the war in Iraq, the 2008 collapse of Wall Street, etc., were predicted specifically by the Old Testament prophet Isaiah. The prophet leads Kaplan to understand that Isaiah not only warned his own nation (Israel) about the danger of abandoning God but, in a mysterious way, also predicted America’s contemporary events.

In drawing parallels between Israel and America, Cahn asserts several things: first, that America was founded on a covenant with God as much as Israel was. Second, that America is being released from God’s protection to suffer the consequences of having marginalized Him. Third, that Isaiah predicted all of this.

Cahn’s prophet in the book tells Kaplan that each of the key American events since September 11, 2001, is a harbinger of America’s coming fall; each disaster is another warning from God for America to return to Him. Cahn’s point, couched as it is in a fictional narrative, is that, unless the U.S. changes course, it will suffer the same fate as the ancient nations. That is, God will allow America’s enemies, external and internal, to bring it down. Cahn sees evidence for his claim in the words of Isaiah 9.

Cahn identifies Isaiah 9:8–10 as revealing the main harbinger of coming disaster: “The Lord has sent a message against Jacob; it will fall on Israel. All the people will know it—Ephraim and the inhabitants of Samaria—who say with pride and arrogance of heart, ‘The bricks have fallen down, but we will rebuild with dressed stone; the fig trees have been felled, but we will replace them with cedars.’” In the original context, God is expressing His anger at Israel over their refusal to repent from their idolatry. Even after receiving God’s discipline in the form of several disasters, the nation of Israel hurled their defiance at God Himself. To paraphrase Israel’s words, they said, “God, You may have allowed our enemies to damage our city, but we will rebuild it even stronger.” This was conscious and deliberate rebellion against God. The Israel of Isaiah’s day would not bow to God, not even under His rod.

Cahn’s prophet in The Harbinger quotes government leaders using similarly defiant words following the collapse of the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001. Since U.S. leaders used the words, “We will rebuild” and expressed a “spirit of defiance,” Cahn applies God’s angry words in Isaiah 9 to America. The problem with this interpretation is that when America’s leaders vowed to rebuild the World Trade Center, they were not defying God but the terrorists who demolished it. Israel was defying both their human enemies and God. Cahn’s linking of the two nations with the same prophecy is unfair. The principle behind Isaiah’s prophecy—that judgment may befall any nation that forsakes God—could be applied to America. It may be a fascinating coincidence that Isaiah mentions fallen bricks. The book may be exciting to read. But it is faulty Bible interpretation to take a prophecy clearly meant for Israel and make the details pertain to modern-day America.

Cahn does not claim in his book to be a prophet. Neither does he claim to have received the message of his story directly from God. He writes as a teacher, putting into the mouth of Kaplan what he understands to be both the original and the contemporary meanings of Isaiah’s prophecy. Cahn does not claim that Isaiah uses the name America or the United States in his prophecies. He does not even claim that Isaiah had a dual fulfillment of his prophecies in mind. Cahn’s apparent purpose in his book is to spin a convincing yarn and persuade readers of a real danger America faces in light of Cahn’s understanding of how Israel’s situation in 600–500 BC applies to America’s current situation.

In the book, Cahn creates a fictional means of revealing prophecy from God—clay seals, such as were used to hold impressed signatures on official documents. In The Harbinger, the prophet gives Kaplan a set of nine such seals. Each seal supposedly represents a national event in Israel’s history—a harbinger that warned of final collapse and dispersion into the surrounding pagan nations—as well as a current event in America, heralding ultimate doom if America does not repent.

Cahn connects each seal with a serious American event in the decade following September 11, 2001, and with an object or an event in Israel’s history. Since Cahn is writing fiction, he is free to manufacture not only clay seals but coincidences. His creative way of identifying the coincidences is both fascinating and convincing, as far as the story goes. He sees in the coincidences a pattern of God’s warnings to both His chosen nation, Israel, and the U.S. Each seal and its related dire event are harbingers of ultimate doom. America is being warned to turn back to God.

Persuasive preaching about a real need, yes; accurate interpretation of a Bible text, no. The problem is that Israel is the only nation with whom God has made a covenant, through Abraham (Genesis 12:1-3). America is not Israel.

If you read The Harbinger, remember that only time can reveal the validity of what claims to be prophecy from God (Deuteronomy 18:21-22). And, even though the book may use some faulty interpretations, do not close your heart to Cahn’s essential message. He is right that America needs to repent. “Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people” (Proverbs 14:34). The United States of America very likely will meet the same fate as ancient Israel if its people do not repent. Americans need to give their hearts to God and exercise faith in Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord. To that end we should pray.

https://www.gotquestions.org/The-Harbinger.html

 

[Tall Timbers]

I'm not a fan of Johnathan Kahn but one of my bible study buds said that he was reading it and he really liked it. Before I read it, I'd like to know what others think about this book particularly. And maybe I need to revisit his stuff. He seemed a bit sensationalistic at first but maybe I was wrong. So, anyone read Harbinger II?

I read the first Harbinger and regret that I purchased the book. I'll never read anything from Jonathan Cahn again.

 

[Everlasting Life]

I'm not a fan of Johnathan Kahn but one of my bible study buds said that he was reading it and he really liked it. Before I read it, I'd like to know what others think about this book particularly. And maybe I need to revisit his stuff. He seemed a bit sensationalistic at first but maybe I was wrong. So, anyone read Harbinger II?

This might be a helpful thread:

https://www.raptureforums.com/forums/threads/jonathan-cahn-the-return.166481/#post-843170036

 

[athenasius]

Deut 18:22 says we don't need to be afraid of a prophet who speaks a word that doesn't come to pass. So we don't listen to someone who predicts something that doesn't come to pass, they are not a prophet of God, nor are their words like that of a prophet. They don't speak for God.

The point of these books as Jonathan Cahn says (and I know, I read the first 2) are as a warning to repent, and he explains elsewhere that God showed him to write the first book as a fictional account but the message is real. He says basically I heard from God, I know we need to repent. Ok so far so good, anyone quoting the Bible can say that, and the Bible speaks for itself of the need to repent. He talks of a pattern of judgement that ancient Israel followed, and then applies this to America. David James and the other link explain best why that isn't good exegesis.

Next book, the Shemitah (I can't spell it sorry) he goes further to broadly hint at a prophetic warning and timetable pretty much saying that on a certain date there will be a stock market crash or event. Didn't happen. In the buildup to that fall, was it 2014? Can't remember now, the blood moons thing was big and everyone waited with bated breath. Would Cahn be right on the stockmarket, and was Mark Biltz right about the blood moons, and then of course not to be outdone, Hagee grabbed Biltz's blood moon theory and sold his own books on it. When it came to stealing another man's false prophesy, if there is profit in it, Hagee proved where his heart and ethics lie. Things fizzled out, proving Cahn, Biltz and John Hagee were False prophets.

I have no plans of buying into any other book by Cahn, and I don't advise it for others due to this verse in Deut 18:22 We aren't to fear or follow after false prophets.

I wrote that Feb 22, 2017 in this thread here: https://www.raptureforums.com/forum...tic-ken-copeland.112822/page-3#post-842479150

and my opinion hasn't changed one bit.

To review here is Deut 18:22 KJV

22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

That specifically means, that you don't have to worry about a single thing he says in future. If he is of the Lord, the thing would take place. It didn't. The fact that he cleverly camouflaged it so as not to directly call it a prophecy (the Shemittah book) but specified all kinds of details that should come to pass (that didn't) proves 2 things. 1 he is a false prophet. and 2 his exegesis of the Bible verses he used to back up his claims is faulty.

and 2 Timothy 4:3-4 NIV

3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

Obviously we all have our own opinions of the man, but when asked this is my opinion and this is what I base my opinion on.

 

[Lovin Jesus]

I wrote that Feb 22, 2017 in this thread here: https://www.raptureforums.com/forum...tic-ken-copeland.112822/page-3#post-842479150

and my opinion hasn't changed one bit.

To review here is Deut 18:22 KJV

22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

That specifically means, that you don't have to worry about a single thing he says in future. If he is of the Lord, the thing would take place. It didn't. The fact that he cleverly camouflaged it so as not to directly call it a prophecy (the Shemittah book) but specified all kinds of details that should come to pass (that didn't) proves 2 things. 1 he is a false prophet. and 2 his exegesis of the Bible verses he used to back up his claims is faulty.

and 2 Timothy 4:3-4 NIV

3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

Obviously we all have our own opinions of the man, but when asked this is my opinion and this is what I base my opinion on.

In agreement. Also to add that Bible prophecy is all about restoration with Israel from the covenant made from God. The first prophecy is Genesis 3:15 regarding offspring from a woman that was to bring the Messiah Jesus. All the prophecies throughout scripture are about Israel not any other nation including America. Other nations may have a role but it is linked to Israel

 

[UntilTheWholeWorldHears]

Haven’t read Harbinger 2 but did read the Harbinger as well as The Paradigm. I found an interesting outlook on the Original Harbinger which can be used for the Harbinger 2.

Question: "Does The Harbinger really predict America’s future?"

Answer: The book The Harbinger: the Ancient Mystery that holds the secret of America’s Future by Messianic Jewish Rabbi Jonathan Cahn has been a best-seller and has sparked controversy and much discussion. There is no question as to Cahn’s passion about alerting his fellow countrymen to the spiritual, economic, and moral dangers that the United States faces. But is Cahn’s interpretation of the book of Isaiah correct, and are those Old Testament prophecies applicable to modern-day America?

The back cover of the book clearly labels the book as “FICTION / Suspense,” and the line following the copyright page says, “What you are about to read is presented in the form of a story…” The rest of that sentence is ambiguous: “… but what is contained within the story is real.” If the author is saying that the book’s content is a real message from God to the USA, then it is important to examine his view of the meaning of biblical prophecy.

The story’s opening dialogue reads, “An ancient mystery that holds the secret to America’s future.” This attention-getting assertion is made by the story’s narrator and lead character, journalist Nouriel Kaplan. Kaplan is attempting to persuade Ana Goren, a media executive, to publish information that Kaplan believes will affect the economic, political, military, moral, and spiritual future of the United States. Even though Cahn presents this information in a fictional vehicle, he asserts that it is “real.” Is it?

In the story, a nameless prophet meets Kaplan on a number of occasions, giving him information about how recent events, including the World Trade Center terrorist attacks of 9/11, the housing boom, the war in Iraq, the 2008 collapse of Wall Street, etc., were predicted specifically by the Old Testament prophet Isaiah. The prophet leads Kaplan to understand that Isaiah not only warned his own nation (Israel) about the danger of abandoning God but, in a mysterious way, also predicted America’s contemporary events.

In drawing parallels between Israel and America, Cahn asserts several things: first, that America was founded on a covenant with God as much as Israel was. Second, that America is being released from God’s protection to suffer the consequences of having marginalized Him. Third, that Isaiah predicted all of this.

Cahn’s prophet in the book tells Kaplan that each of the key American events since September 11, 2001, is a harbinger of America’s coming fall; each disaster is another warning from God for America to return to Him. Cahn’s point, couched as it is in a fictional narrative, is that, unless the U.S. changes course, it will suffer the same fate as the ancient nations. That is, God will allow America’s enemies, external and internal, to bring it down. Cahn sees evidence for his claim in the words of Isaiah 9.

Cahn identifies Isaiah 9:8–10 as revealing the main harbinger of coming disaster: “The Lord has sent a message against Jacob; it will fall on Israel. All the people will know it—Ephraim and the inhabitants of Samaria—who say with pride and arrogance of heart, ‘The bricks have fallen down, but we will rebuild with dressed stone; the fig trees have been felled, but we will replace them with cedars.’” In the original context, God is expressing His anger at Israel over their refusal to repent from their idolatry. Even after receiving God’s discipline in the form of several disasters, the nation of Israel hurled their defiance at God Himself. To paraphrase Israel’s words, they said, “God, You may have allowed our enemies to damage our city, but we will rebuild it even stronger.” This was conscious and deliberate rebellion against God. The Israel of Isaiah’s day would not bow to God, not even under His rod.

Cahn’s prophet in The Harbinger quotes government leaders using similarly defiant words following the collapse of the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001. Since U.S. leaders used the words, “We will rebuild” and expressed a “spirit of defiance,” Cahn applies God’s angry words in Isaiah 9 to America. The problem with this interpretation is that when America’s leaders vowed to rebuild the World Trade Center, they were not defying God but the terrorists who demolished it. Israel was defying both their human enemies and God. Cahn’s linking of the two nations with the same prophecy is unfair. The principle behind Isaiah’s prophecy—that judgment may befall any nation that forsakes God—could be applied to America. It may be a fascinating coincidence that Isaiah mentions fallen bricks. The book may be exciting to read. But it is faulty Bible interpretation to take a prophecy clearly meant for Israel and make the details pertain to modern-day America.

Cahn does not claim in his book to be a prophet. Neither does he claim to have received the message of his story directly from God. He writes as a teacher, putting into the mouth of Kaplan what he understands to be both the original and the contemporary meanings of Isaiah’s prophecy. Cahn does not claim that Isaiah uses the name America or the United States in his prophecies. He does not even claim that Isaiah had a dual fulfillment of his prophecies in mind. Cahn’s apparent purpose in his book is to spin a convincing yarn and persuade readers of a real danger America faces in light of Cahn’s understanding of how Israel’s situation in 600–500 BC applies to America’s current situation.

In the book, Cahn creates a fictional means of revealing prophecy from God—clay seals, such as were used to hold impressed signatures on official documents. In The Harbinger, the prophet gives Kaplan a set of nine such seals. Each seal supposedly represents a national event in Israel’s history—a harbinger that warned of final collapse and dispersion into the surrounding pagan nations—as well as a current event in America, heralding ultimate doom if America does not repent.

Cahn connects each seal with a serious American event in the decade following September 11, 2001, and with an object or an event in Israel’s history. Since Cahn is writing fiction, he is free to manufacture not only clay seals but coincidences. His creative way of identifying the coincidences is both fascinating and convincing, as far as the story goes. He sees in the coincidences a pattern of God’s warnings to both His chosen nation, Israel, and the U.S. Each seal and its related dire event are harbingers of ultimate doom. America is being warned to turn back to God.

Persuasive preaching about a real need, yes; accurate interpretation of a Bible text, no. The problem is that Israel is the only nation with whom God has made a covenant, through Abraham (Genesis 12:1-3). America is not Israel.

If you read The Harbinger, remember that only time can reveal the validity of what claims to be prophecy from God (Deuteronomy 18:21-22). And, even though the book may use some faulty interpretations, do not close your heart to Cahn’s essential message. He is right that America needs to repent. “Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people” (Proverbs 14:34). The United States of America very likely will meet the same fate as ancient Israel if its people do not repent. Americans need to give their hearts to God and exercise faith in Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord. To that end we should pray.

https://www.gotquestions.org/The-Harbinger.html

Thank you @Lovin Jesus for posting that review. I think I'm going to pass on the book

 

[Andy C]

I read the first Harbinger and regret that I purchased the book. I'll never read anything from Jonathan Cahn again.

Same here brother.

 

[Eric Nicholas]

It's a hard pass on Cahn man. Too on the nose?

People that claim to speak for God outside of the canon really rub me entirely the wrong way. Nothing gets under my skin more than a professing believer that claims special knowledge or casually attributes to God what is not His. An atheist doesn't even come close to irritating me more than that, as I fully expect them to blaspheme. Sin in your own name, not our precious Lord's.

 

[RonJohnSilver]

I gave in and purchased Harbinger 2 (reduced price). It's compelling and, assuming the dates/facts/correlations are correct, he makes a good case that judgment, (which began on 9/11 he says) has come to America and will continue. The major issues are what we all know about, idolatry, perversion, moral decay. etc. Biggest issue seems to be abortion and the current virus is the punishment but more judgment is coming. An interesting and entertaining read but I would be more impressed if it had been published prior to 2020. It's more helpful to know what's coming that what just happened.