Ham's son Canaan

[RestInHim]

I'm reading through Genesis 9 and 10 again this morning and going through the genealogies of Noah's sons. I have a "Family tree of the Bible" I have used before that I printed out and I'm also reading Michael L. Henderson wonderful book "Those Are Wise Will Shine!"

I hope I can ask this properly as not to confuse anyone.



Genesis 9:25-27 New King James Version (NKJV)
25 Then he said:

“Cursed be Canaan;
A servant of servants
He shall be to his brethren.”

26 And he said:

“Blessed be the Lord,
The God of Shem,
And may Canaan be his servant.

27
May God enlarge Japheth,
And may he dwell in the tents of Shem;
And may Canaan be his servant.”


In Chapter 10: 6 it says that Ham has a son named Canaan "The sons of Ham were Cush, Mizraim, Put, and Canaan" and it says in Chapter 9: 25 that Canaan will serve his brothers descendants.


Shem is blessed by God to be the bloodline that will continue the chosen promise to Noah (Gen. 9: 26)

and

Japheth is the father of the Gentiles whom will be enlarged (land and population) His descendants will "dwell in the tents of Shem". (Gen. 9: 27)


Here is where I am stumped ! Michael says that Shem , on the other hand, became the father of the Semitic peoples. These included Canaan or the Canaanites of whom we are told would be a servant to Shem, vs. 25-26

These Canaanites that are mentioned here, is it the same as Ham's son Canaan's descendants? We know from v.25 that Canaan will serve his brothers descendants, but, Michael is saying above in his book that Shem became the father of the Semitic peoples which included the Canaanites. So, does that mean that Ham's son's we're Canaanites as well as Shem had son's who we're Canaanites?

or

Is Ham's son Canaan not Canaanites?

I hope this isn't too confusing and someone can help me get this straightened out.


Also, another question....

I have heard a Pastor mention at one time, could have been Pastor Andy Woods, that Abraham was a Gentile?



Abraham is a descendant of the line of Shem. Shem is the progenitor of both Jewish and Arabic (Arabs, Muslims, Muhammad) peoples. So, wouldn't that make him a Jew?

Although, I was reading on gotquestions.org (https://www.gotquestions.org/Jews-and-Gentiles.html) that it seems that the formal separation of Jews and Gentiles didn't occur until God called Abraham to be the father of His chosen nation Israel, (Genesis 12)

"It seems, then, that the formal separation of Jews and Gentiles did not occur until God called Abraham to be the father of His chosen nation, Israel (Genesis 12). Many view Abraham as the first Jew, even though the precise term Jew did not come into use until after the return from exile when the tribe of Judah (“Jew”-dah) was dominant. However, since Abraham’s son Ishmael was not of the chosen line, and since Abraham’s grandson Esau was not of the chosen line, a more accurate placement of the division of Jews from Gentiles would be with Jacob, whose name was changed by God to Israel (Genesis 32:28). All of the descendants of Jacob, through his 12 sons (the fathers of the 12 tribes of Israel), were members of God’s chosen nation. Therefore, it seems most biblically sound to place the division of Jew and Gentile at Jacob, the father of Israel. "

 

[Jan51]

I'm reading through Genesis 9 and 10 again this morning and going through the genealogies of Noah's sons. I have a "Family tree of the Bible" I have used before that I printed out and I'm also reading Michael L. Henderson wonderful book "Those Are Wise Will Shine!"

I hope I can ask this properly as not to confuse anyone.



Genesis 9:25-27 New King James Version (NKJV)
25 Then he said:

“Cursed be Canaan;
A servant of servants
He shall be to his brethren.”

26 And he said:

“Blessed be the Lord,
The God of Shem,
And may Canaan be his servant.

27
May God enlarge Japheth,
And may he dwell in the tents of Shem;
And may Canaan be his servant.”


In Chapter 10: 6 it says that Ham has a son named Canaan "The sons of Ham were Cush, Mizraim, Put, and Canaan" and it says in Chapter 9: 25 that Canaan will serve his brothers descendants.


Shem is blessed by God to be the bloodline that will continue the chosen promise to Noah (Gen. 9: 26)

and

Japheth is the father of the Gentiles whom will be enlarged (land and population) His descendants will "dwell in the tents of Shem". (Gen. 9: 27)


Here is where I am stumped ! Michael says that Shem , on the other hand, became the father of the Semitic peoples. These included Canaan or the Canaanites of whom we are told would be a servant to Shem, vs. 25-26

These Canaanites that are mentioned here, is it the same as Ham's son Canaan's descendants? We know from v.25 that Canaan will serve his brothers descendants, but, Michael is saying above in his book that Shem became the father of the Semitic peoples which included the Canaanites. So, does that mean that Ham's son's we're Canaanites as well as Shem had son's who we're Canaanites?

or

Is Ham's son Canaan not Canaanites?

I hope this isn't too confusing and someone can help me get this straightened out.


Also, another question....

I have heard a Pastor mention at one time, could have been Pastor Andy Woods, that Abraham was a Gentile?



Abraham is a descendant of the line of Shem. Shem is the progenitor of both Jewish and Arabic (Arabs, Muslims, Muhammad) peoples. So, wouldn't that make him a Jew?

Although, I was reading on gotquestions.org (https://www.gotquestions.org/Jews-and-Gentiles.html) that it seems that the formal separation of Jews and Gentiles didn't occur until God called Abraham to be the father of His chosen nation Israel, (Genesis 12)

"It seems, then, that the formal separation of Jews and Gentiles did not occur until God called Abraham to be the father of His chosen nation, Israel (Genesis 12). Many view Abraham as the first Jew, even though the precise term Jew did not come into use until after the return from exile when the tribe of Judah (“Jew”-dah) was dominant. However, since Abraham’s son Ishmael was not of the chosen line, and since Abraham’s grandson Esau was not of the chosen line, a more accurate placement of the division of Jews from Gentiles would be with Jacob, whose name was changed by God to Israel (Genesis 32:28). All of the descendants of Jacob, through his 12 sons (the fathers of the 12 tribes of Israel), were members of God’s chosen nation. Therefore, it seems most biblically sound to place the division of Jew and Gentile at Jacob, the father of Israel. "

Ham’s son Canaan and his descendants lived in the land of Canaan. God promised this land to the descendants of Abraham, of the line of Shem. At that time there were no Jews. Abraham’s grandson, Jacob, had 12 sons. God changed Jacob’s name to Israel, so now we have the 12 sons of Israel. They and their descendants become a nation—the nation of Israel, who will later be called Jews. So yes Abraham was a Gentile. So was his son Isaac and his grandson Jacob.

Moses leads the nation of Israel to the land of Canaan, and they enter under Joshua’s leadership. God commands them to wipe out the evil godless inhabitants of the land—the Canaanites. They were able to wipe out many but not all. The remaining Canaanites lived in the land with Israel. Some served them, some were ongoing enemies..

 

[DanLMP]

I'm reading through Genesis 9 and 10 again this morning and going through the genealogies of Noah's sons. I have a "Family tree of the Bible" I have used before that I printed out and I'm also reading Michael L. Henderson wonderful book "Those Are Wise Will Shine!"

Hi RIH. I don't know if you are aware but Mike Henderson is part of the Forums on RF and he posts frequently.
I know you can't private message him but maybe the mods can so he can look at your post and answer directly.

All you need to do is report your own post and the mods will see it.

Assuming you need more info after Jan51's excellent answer.

 

[mattfivefour]

Rather than answer for Mike, I have emailed him and directed him to this thread. You'll likely hear something soon.

 

[mikhen7]

. So, does that mean that Ham's son's we're Canaanites as well as Shem had son's who we're Canaanites?

Thanks for the question. Adrian pegged me and I will answer.

BTW Jan51 gave a solid answer. Canaan migrated into the promised land sometime after the flood when he was grown and had his own family. He was present in the Promised Land after the Exodus and was encountered by Joshua an Caleb's armies. As Jan said, God promised that Land (the land the Canaanites were dwelling in) to the line of Shem, who was the father of the Semitic peoples. (Today, the term anti-semite means to have a racial bias against the Jewish people) Canaan and all its tribes were mostly wiped out, but those that remained became servants of the Shemites (Semites) people of Israel, God's chosen, just as the prophecy revealed.

Genesis 9:25–26 (NKJV)
25 Then he said:
“Cursed be Canaan;
A servant of servants
He shall be to his brethren.”
26 And he said:
“Blessed be the LORD,
The God of Shem,
And may Canaan be his servant.

The Canaanites were never blessed as a people and were corrupted in every despicable and demon infested way.

For a direct answer to your question, understand that Ham had other sons and they all migrated to other lands. As time passed and people migrated, you can even find descendants in the Gentile lands. NOTE: Hams's sons and grandsons were predominantly found in Africa and a generation or two later, in Southern Asia including the Arabic lands. Note in Appendix A Ham's Grandsons when you get there. Also, Shem did not have a son that was Canaanite. (But the Semitic language gets its namesake from Shem)

When you Get to Appendix A, you will see a much more descriptive Map if you will, of where the heads of the 70 from Genesis 10 actually ended up dwelling.

Here is a good link as well: https://www.bible-history.com/old-testament/descendants-of-ham.html

Here is an excerpt of Hams Sons:

Sons of Ham: Table B
From Ham we also find many of the inhabitants of Gentile lands finding their roots. He is the father of most of Asia except the far north and Scandinavian areas. You will find him sparsely in southern Europe and to a large extent in northern Africa.

Ham’s son as we know was issued a curse for his part in exploiting the nakedness of his grandfather Noah. It is evident that the curse was not applied to Ham because of the apparent prosperity of the Hamites in making great gains around the earth. Since Canaan was the recipient of the curse, it is no longer effective in any end time scenario because they became extinct (vis. Canaanites) long, long, ago. Since the Hamites inhabited, to a large extent, the lands of eastern, central, western, and all of southern Asia, it is easy for some to deduce that the tower of Babel incident, was the catalyst that compelled the Hamites to cross the Siberian Peninsula into North America across the Bearing Straight. At this juncture in time, we would do well to keep things in a scholarly perspective. Many studies are being done with DNA research that may well prove to be of good use in tracing the inhabitants of the Americas.

Until ample proof is shown through advanced methods of Anthropology, Paleontology, and Archaeology with concrete evidence of ancient migrations, all such literature should be read with caution.

Tracing the Hamites
Ham - In general he is to be found in all of Asia (but the northern lands), southern Europe, and northern Africa. Ham had four sons (Gen. 10:6).
1) Cush - Gen. 10:6-12. (Ethiopia). It is said that he dwelt in southern Egypt, Abyssnia, Nubia, and Ethiopia. Amos 9:7 gives us an allusion to what seems to be that of Cush being in Ethiopia or the south of Egypt.
2) Mizraim - Gen. 10:6, 13-14; 1 Chron. 1:11-12. This means Egypt. So any prophetical reference to Egypt would include by nature Mizraim. (see also the singular, Mazor, in 2 Kings 19:24; Is. 19:6, 35:25).
3) Put or Phut - Gen. 10:6; 1 Chron. 1:8; Is. 66:19; Jer. 46:9; Ez. 27:10; 30:5, 38:5, and Nah. 3:9. Generally refers to Libya (Ez. 27:10). According to Murphy his descendants migrated far west of Egypt and some names, left as reminders, can be found such as the river Phutes in Mauretania, and Futa, an inland country; also possibly seen as Buto, the capitol of Lower Egypt, or the Sebennytic mouth of the Nile.24
4) Canaan – Gen. 10:15-18; 1 Chron. 1:8, 13-16. This is not a conclusive list of scripture passages because it is found in over 150 different places. (Consult a concordance for reference). Canaan is generally seen to be that area west of the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea - modern day Israel or the Levant. Canaan was eliminated, therefore, no longer exists as a nation. He served the Semites (Genesis 9:26).


Michael L. Henderson, Those Who Are Wise Will Shine! (Westbow Press, 2011).

 

[RestInHim]

Ham’s son Canaan and his descendants lived in the land of Canaan. God promised this land to the descendants of Abraham, of the line of Shem. At that time there were no Jews. Abraham’s grandson, Jacob, had 12 sons. God changed Jacob’s name to Israel, so now we have the 12 sons of Israel. They and their descendants become a nation—the nation of Israel, who will later be called Jews. So yes Abraham was a Gentile. So was his son Isaac and his grandson Jacob.

Moses leads the nation of Israel to the land of Canaan, and they enter under Joshua’s leadership. God commands them to wipe out the evil godless inhabitants of the land—the Canaanites. They were able to wipe out many but not all. The remaining Canaanites lived in the land with Israel. Some served them, some were ongoing enemies..

Thank you Jan51.

Sometimes I have a difficult time reading due to illness and yet, I still try to my best, I'm stubborn. I want to be in His Word seeking Him, and to know Him more and grow deeper in faith, in my walk with Him.

I comprehend and have understood what you wrote above, but, was/am having a hard time putting some pieces of the puzzle together so to speak. I think I may be putting the cart before the horse.

With Abraham coming from the line of Shem, the father of the Jews, which is the bloodline that will continue the chosen promise to Noah. I have the thinking that because Abraham was a Gentile, that if he was a gentile he should have come from the line of Japheth who was the father of the gentiles.

I've been really sick and in much pain the last 3 weeks, but, God willing I will dig deeper into this and I will look at what Michael has shared with me also. I trust God will show me what I need to know.

 

[RestInHim]

Hi RIH. I don't know if you are aware but Mike Henderson is part of the Forums on RF and he posts frequently.
I know you can't private message him but maybe the mods can so he can look at your post and answer directly.

All you need to do is report your own post and the mods will see it.

Assuming you need more info after Jan51's excellent answer.

Thank you DanLMP, everyone has been so helpful.

 

[RestInHim]

Rather than answer for Mike, I have emailed him and directed him to this thread. You'll likely hear something soon.

Thank you Adrian

 

[RestInHim]

Thanks for the question. Adrian pegged me and I will answer.

BTW Jan51 gave a solid answer. Canaan migrated into the promised land sometime after the flood when he was grown and had his own family. He was present in the Promised Land after the Exodus and was encountered by Joshua an Caleb's armies. As Jan said, God promised that Land (the land the Canaanites were dwelling in) to the line of Shem, who was the father of the Semitic peoples. (Today, the term anti-semite means to have a racial bias against the Jewish people) Canaan and all its tribes were mostly wiped out, but those that remained became servants of the Shemites (Semites) people of Israel, God's chosen, just as the prophecy revealed.

Genesis 9:25–26 (NKJV)
25 Then he said:
“Cursed be Canaan;
A servant of servants
He shall be to his brethren.”
26 And he said:
“Blessed be the LORD,
The God of Shem,
And may Canaan be his servant.

The Canaanites were never blessed as a people and were corrupted in every despicable and demon infested way.

For a direct answer to your question, understand that Ham had other sons and they all migrated to other lands. As time passed and people migrated, you can even find descendants in the Gentile lands. NOTE: Hams's sons and grandsons were predominantly found in Africa and a generation or two later, in Southern Asia including the Arabic lands. Note in Appendix A Ham's Grandsons when you get there. Also, Shem did not have a son that was Canaanite. (But the Semitic language gets its namesake from Shem)

When you Get to Appendix A, you will see a much more descriptive Map if you will, of where the heads of the 70 from Genesis 10 actually ended up dwelling.

Here is a good link as well: https://www.bible-history.com/old-testament/descendants-of-ham.html

Here is an excerpt of Hams Sons:

Sons of Ham: Table B
From Ham we also find many of the inhabitants of Gentile lands finding their roots. He is the father of most of Asia except the far north and Scandinavian areas. You will find him sparsely in southern Europe and to a large extent in northern Africa.

Ham’s son as we know was issued a curse for his part in exploiting the nakedness of his grandfather Noah. It is evident that the curse was not applied to Ham because of the apparent prosperity of the Hamites in making great gains around the earth. Since Canaan was the recipient of the curse, it is no longer effective in any end time scenario because they became extinct (vis. Canaanites) long, long, ago. Since the Hamites inhabited, to a large extent, the lands of eastern, central, western, and all of southern Asia, it is easy for some to deduce that the tower of Babel incident, was the catalyst that compelled the Hamites to cross the Siberian Peninsula into North America across the Bearing Straight. At this juncture in time, we would do well to keep things in a scholarly perspective. Many studies are being done with DNA research that may well prove to be of good use in tracing the inhabitants of the Americas.

Until ample proof is shown through advanced methods of Anthropology, Paleontology, and Archaeology with concrete evidence of ancient migrations, all such literature should be read with caution.

Tracing the Hamites
Ham - In general he is to be found in all of Asia (but the northern lands), southern Europe, and northern Africa. Ham had four sons (Gen. 10:6).
1) Cush - Gen. 10:6-12. (Ethiopia). It is said that he dwelt in southern Egypt, Abyssnia, Nubia, and Ethiopia. Amos 9:7 gives us an allusion to what seems to be that of Cush being in Ethiopia or the south of Egypt.
2) Mizraim - Gen. 10:6, 13-14; 1 Chron. 1:11-12. This means Egypt. So any prophetical reference to Egypt would include by nature Mizraim. (see also the singular, Mazor, in 2 Kings 19:24; Is. 19:6, 35:25).
3) Put or Phut - Gen. 10:6; 1 Chron. 1:8; Is. 66:19; Jer. 46:9; Ez. 27:10; 30:5, 38:5, and Nah. 3:9. Generally refers to Libya (Ez. 27:10). According to Murphy his descendants migrated far west of Egypt and some names, left as reminders, can be found such as the river Phutes in Mauretania, and Futa, an inland country; also possibly seen as Buto, the capitol of Lower Egypt, or the Sebennytic mouth of the Nile.24
4) Canaan – Gen. 10:15-18; 1 Chron. 1:8, 13-16. This is not a conclusive list of scripture passages because it is found in over 150 different places. (Consult a concordance for reference). Canaan is generally seen to be that area west of the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea - modern day Israel or the Levant. Canaan was eliminated, therefore, no longer exists as a nation. He served the Semites (Genesis 9:26).


Michael L. Henderson, Those Who Are Wise Will Shine! (Westbow Press, 2011).

No, it's me who should thank you Michael.

I am just starting to dig deeper into genealogy and as I mentioned to Jan51 it's a little more difficult with my ability to concentrate and comprehend due to illness. I haven't been able to get back on here sooner because I've been in so much pain but hopefully/prayerfully and God willing I will be able to get back to looking into this further and the link you provided I'm sure will help.

As I mentioned to Jan51 I think I'm putting the cart before the horse so to speak.....

With Abraham coming from the line of Shem, the father of the Jews, which is the bloodline that will continue the chosen promise to Noah. I have the thinking that because Abraham was a Gentile, that if he was a gentile he should have come from the line of Japheth who was the father of the gentiles.

God is faithful, He will show me what I need to know and if I have any other hiccups or questions I'll be sure to come back and ask for help.

God bless

 

[Jan51]

Gentiles are not a bloodline. Gentiles are everyone who is not of Israel,

 

[mikhen7]

This is True. When you look at Japheth and his sons and descendants, the Bible does designate him as the father of the coastland gentile populations. European, indo-european,etc. After Babel, when the Lord scattered the peoples abroad, the "goyim" Gentile nations were populated. Primarily, these people (Gentiles) could all trace their roots back to Noah, but theoretically they probably contained blood lines from all of Noah's sons.

Genesis 10:2–5 (NKJV)
2 The sons of Japheth were Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshech, and Tiras. 3 The sons of Gomer were Ashkenaz, Riphath, and Togarmah. 4 The sons of Javan were Elishah, Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim. 5 From these the coastland peoples of the Gentiles were separated into their lands, everyone according to his language, according to their families, into their nations.

Got Questions has a good article on this: https://www.gotquestions.org/sons-of-Noah.html