you're so right, texas. although the supreme court upheld the 2nd amendment by a narrow 5 to 4 margin, if obama's elected, he will try to come thru the back -door, by imposing HUGe taxes on ammo, so as to drive the ammo manufacturers out of business. he will try to do anything to get back to gun control. if he can get one more liberal justice on the supreme court, watch out. i for one sincerely hope to be raptured before that happens. keep looking up
Gun Talk
- Thread starter TexasThunder
- Start date
No worries. I just didn't know what you were getting at; thus the confused smiley! Don't beat yourself up over it.
pistache
..the flower fades, but His Word stands forever..
lol - sandy was responding to the post above hers that has now been pulled.... 
: It's all good.
: It's all good.
mattfivefour
Well-Known Member
Yeah, we didn't want you to go off half-cocked.
All this self defence and gun talk. I'm glad I live in Canada.
In all honesty, it's a totally different culture here when it comes to that. When I was in university we were out at a McDonalds one night and one of the guys in the group is from Vermont. So we were sitting there eating, getting a little loud, just laughin, and a few guys walk over and ask us what's so funny. I'm pretty sure he was drunk but he was just a dumb Frenchman trying to be tough. So I looked at him and said, "Nothing man." He gave us a dirty look and walked away. We just laughed about it and probably made some comments about punks and the guy from Vermont was like, Guys he could have had a gun! We just laughed and said, Juddy this is Canada and we are in McDonalds, he did not have a gun!
:So he could not have had one legally but how can you be so sure he was not carrying illegally ?
JesusIsLord
Well-Known Member
There are a few brands out there that make the lower receiver for the AR15's that chamber both a 5.56mm and a 6.5mm.....one just has to have the correct upper receiver (barrel bore) for the different sized ammo.
I was not aware that they made an AR15 in a .308 caliber.......I thought the .308 was an AR10?
thallon
Well-Known Member
to me guns are a sin,
a weapon not of defense but murder,
but then i live in australia where
personal gun ownership is uncommon and illegal
except for special things like rifle hunting etc.
and the idolising of them is not
like idolising of say cars or houses.
it is a weapon of death, of power and intimidation.
It is contrary to the nature of a Christian
to have such a thing in their house,
it is the same as having porn or drugs.
It makes us offensive to God.
a weapon not of defense but murder,
but then i live in australia where
personal gun ownership is uncommon and illegal
except for special things like rifle hunting etc.
and the idolising of them is not
like idolising of say cars or houses.
it is a weapon of death, of power and intimidation.
It is contrary to the nature of a Christian
to have such a thing in their house,
it is the same as having porn or drugs.
It makes us offensive to God.
TexasThunder
Psalm 18:2
Forgive me, but I must take exception to your post. To suggest that guns or gun ownership is idol worship, or the same thing as having porn or drugs is making a huge broad statement. Yes, guns are used to kill, their sole purpose is to kill, and many times they are used for sinful purposes as in killing our fellow man.
However, guns are also used to feed and cloth people, to protect our freedoms, and for protection from those that would do us harm. To use your logic, one might say that a spear, bow and arrow, or the sling that David used to kill Goliath is a tool of sin.
I cannot argue that guns have been used for wrong on many occasions. But used properly, and for the right reasons, firearms are nothing more than tools to sustain us, to protect us, and in some instances used for sporting events and target practice.
Sin is in mens hearts, and its those sinful tendancies that make sinful use of tools. Some view trees and the earth as something to worship, for me, a tree provides shade, is pleasing to look at as Gods creation, and is useful to build things.
LostNoMore4
Well-Known Member
I'm a staunch Constitution supporter, but as for owning a gun, I don't b/c those things scare me.
No-I'm not a "let's make this world a safer place by taking away all the guns" kind of guy, but just my personal perference is to not to even get near one. If everyone else wants to own one, then that's their business, and they're entitled to do so.
No-I'm not a "let's make this world a safer place by taking away all the guns" kind of guy, but just my personal perference is to not to even get near one. If everyone else wants to own one, then that's their business, and they're entitled to do so.
Adopted Son
Well-Known Member
Thallon, You couldn't have a more narrow, and illogical view of anything than you do of weapons. (Guns are not the only instruments of death) But I am positive guns are not evil, gun owners are not committing a sin by possession, and sin only comes from man, not from inanimate objects.
Guns are tools. We are always attempting to produce better and more effective tools to accomplish certain tasks. Weapons are no different. I have one. But I have used it for target practice and hunting, neither of which is a sin or is immoral. I have never been tempted to use it on a human being and it has never forced me to do so.
Guns are tools. We are always attempting to produce better and more effective tools to accomplish certain tasks. Weapons are no different. I have one. But I have used it for target practice and hunting, neither of which is a sin or is immoral. I have never been tempted to use it on a human being and it has never forced me to do so.
thallon
Well-Known Member
because of violence God was sorry he made mankind
and destroyed the earth by flood.
If there were no guns in america
right now,
hundreds, thousands of people would still be alive,
and not just gangs,
but young men and women who while innocently studing at
university were slaughtered because of
loners with idolised fantasies.
and the hospital system would not be clogged up
with who knows how many gun shot wounds.
Jesus said,
to him who strikes you on the cheek turn to him the other.
are you a christian?
we are the thin blue line of morality , we are the salt of the earth,
there will be no guns in heaven,
so should we have them here?
should we practice one thing here and another there?
we can protect ourselves only so far,
then we pass a line and become like cain, a murderer,
or a party to murder,
by voting yes you agree with those things
that are done,
you have killed a million because the stand was too hard.
hey,
i understand.
when i see violence in our world i want to see
people stood up against a wall and executed,
but where is my world?
here?
what is my cause?
when good men are silent evil prospers.
am i narrow minded, absolutely,
i would destroy all the guns and weapons on earth
if i could in an instant and outlaw them forever.
and destroyed the earth by flood.
If there were no guns in america
right now,
hundreds, thousands of people would still be alive,
and not just gangs,
but young men and women who while innocently studing at
university were slaughtered because of
loners with idolised fantasies.
and the hospital system would not be clogged up
with who knows how many gun shot wounds.
Jesus said,
to him who strikes you on the cheek turn to him the other.
are you a christian?
we are the thin blue line of morality , we are the salt of the earth,
there will be no guns in heaven,
so should we have them here?
should we practice one thing here and another there?
we can protect ourselves only so far,
then we pass a line and become like cain, a murderer,
or a party to murder,
by voting yes you agree with those things
that are done,
you have killed a million because the stand was too hard.
hey,
i understand.
when i see violence in our world i want to see
people stood up against a wall and executed,
but where is my world?
here?
what is my cause?
when good men are silent evil prospers.
am i narrow minded, absolutely,
i would destroy all the guns and weapons on earth
if i could in an instant and outlaw them forever.
Adopted Son
Well-Known Member
You are mixing the future with Christ in command, and what world we are now living in. IF, we could eliminate ALL weapons, and none could ever be produced, I'd be all for it. Since that is a nice wish, but impossible outcome without God's direct involvement, I must use common sense to deal with today's reality.
God knows the difference, that's why he told Isreal to pick up swords and slay entire nations. He knows we will live under threat of bullies and violence until His Son comes to earth to rule. Then we can enjoy your dream, but for now, I choose to deal with reality.
God knows the difference, that's why he told Isreal to pick up swords and slay entire nations. He knows we will live under threat of bullies and violence until His Son comes to earth to rule. Then we can enjoy your dream, but for now, I choose to deal with reality.
searchin
Well-Known Member
Really? Did you read the first 5 books of the Bible? These books are sometimes called the Pentateuch. Jews call them the Torah, which means "teaching" or "instruction"
The Torah is the most important of Jewish Scriptures. The Jewish Bible contains the same books as what we Christians call the "Old Testament" the Torah IS the foundation of the Christian Scriptures.
Read those Scriptures then try convincing anyone having weapons for self defense is sinful.
The book of Exodus in the Bible tells of the liberation of the Hebrew slaves from Egypt. The ten plagues finally convinced the Egyptions to let the Hebrews go. The Hebrews were allowed to take whatever they wanted from the Egyptians, because God made the Egyptians favorably disposed to the Hebrews. The Hebrew slaves thus recieved partial reparations for hundreds of years of slavery.
Then. "God took the people toward the way of the Wilderness to the Sea of Reeds. The Children of Israel were armed when they went up from Egypt" Instead of "armed" the KJV uses the word "harnesed" as an awkward way of expressing that the Hebrews marched out in military order.(Translation by Rashi, the foremost Jewish Bible commentator).
Other translations express the passage's sense that the Hebrews marched out free in glorious battle array: "And the people of Israel went up....equipped for battle"(Revised Standard Version) and the children of Israel went up armed" (American Standard Version) "And the sons of Israel went up in military order" (American Baptist Publication Society)
The Hebrew word is chamushim, probably its related to the Egyptian chams, meaning "lance". Presumably, the weapons had been obtained from the Egyptians
For most of human history, a distinctive feature of a free man has been that he possesses arms. While a distinctive feature of a slave is that he does not have arms. This shows that the Hebrews marched out of Egypt triumphantly as a free people, not sneaking away like slaves.
The Talmud is a multi layered commentary on Jewish law. The Babylonian Talmud (first written around the sixth century by the large Jewish community that lived in what is now Iraq) explained the passages in Exodus: "What is the reason for the law of breaking in? Because it's certain that no man is inactive where his property is concerned; therfore, this one (the thief) must have reasoned. 'If I go there, he (the owner) will oppose me and prevent me; but if he does, I will kill him."
HENCE: "If he come to slay thee, forestall by slaying him." (Sanhedrin72a) The sentence does not delegate discretion, it is a positive command. A Jew has has a duty to use deadly force to defend himself or herself against murderous attack.
The Talmud also imposes an affirmative duty on bystanders to kill if necessary to prevent a murder, the rape of a betrothed woman or pederasty(Sanhedrin 73a). The duty to use force to defend an innocent is based on two Torah passages. The first is Leviticus 19:16 neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbor. A modern translation, "nor shall you stand idly by when your neighbors life is at stake" (New American Bible).
The second Torah passage comes from Deuteronomy, and explains that if a man and a betrothed woman had illicit sex in the city, it would be presumed that she had consented, because she would would have cried out for help had she not consented. But if the sexual act occured in the country, she would be presumed to have been the victim of a forceable rape, "For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried...there was none to save her"(23:23-27) This implies a duty of bystanders to heed a woman's cries and come to her rescue. Consent or non consent could be overcome by other evidence.
Important parts of Jewish Oral Law(which was eventually written down in the Talmud and other documents) are the Mitzvot, 613 commands from God that guide Jewish life. One Mitzvot requires everyone "To save a person who is being pursued even if it is necessary to kill the pursuer." Another Mitzvot commands a person "Not to have pity on a pursuer. Rather, he should be killed before he kills or rapes the person he is pursuing." A 1998 Israeli law derived from Leviticus, mandates that a person aid another who is in immediate danger if aid can be given' without danger to the rescuer. A few American states have similar laws called Good Samaritan Laws.
In the Talmud and elsewhere, all significant Jewish commentators have read the Exodus Scripture about the sun being risen on the burglar as metaphorical. "If the sun be risen upon him" means "If the burglar's intentions are plainly non violent". Thus, if a householder is certain a burglar will not use violence, then the householder may not kill the burglar, even at night. Conversely, if the burglar is a violent threat to the household, then the burglar may be killed, regardless of the hour of the day (Mekhilta Nezikin 13, 3, 101).
Pacifists take the Sixth Commandment: "Thou shalt not kill" as somehow negating what the rest of the Torah teaches about the duty of defending oneself and others. No one actually interprets "Thou shalt not kill" completely literally. The commandment does not say"Thou shalt not kill humans" but simply says "Thou shalt not kill." Read literally it would forbid not only the consumption of red meat, but also the killing of vegetables, fruit & grain plants. Also forbidden would be the use of antibiotics, including antibiotic soap, which deliberately kills millions of bacteria. To apply the Commandment according to its plain meaning in the original Hebrew. The word in original Hebrew text is r'tzach, which would be translated as murder. The Mitzvot that implements the Sixth Commandment states that a good Jew is required "Not to kill an innocent person, as [the Sixth Commandment] states. 'Do not murder"
The first 5 books of the Bible offer nothing to support an argument that defensive violence is wrong, as many gun-banners would like you to believe. To the contrary, using force to protect oneself and other innocents is not only a right, but a positive moral duty.
That's a shame your fellow law abiding mates are not able to enjoy their God given' right to protect themselves. Gun bans only disarm law abiding citizens. I know criminals did not hand in their guns or obey laws, that's why they are called criminals.
Can you explain the difference between idolizing one inanimate object(car) over another inanimate object(house) does not amount to the same idolization?
So are automobiles, steak knives, baseball bats, along with many other things, including Fosters lager. Ban those items as well. Is that the logical answer?
No, its not contrary, nor is it the same as porn or drugs. Read the response provided above once more.
When good men are dis-armed evil prospers, because armed evil doers obeys not the law or dis armed law abiding citizens.
I can see that and woefully ignorant of fact as well.
Crime up Down Under
Since Australia's gun ban, armed robberies increase 45%
Posted: March 03, 2000
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15304
I'm wiling to bet the situation is much worse today.
Australia's Gun Laws: The Definitive Statistics
http://www.2asisters.org/news/australia.htm
David Povah ABS - The Australian - 27/2/97
Victoria is facing one of its worst murder tolls for a decade - and its lowest arrest rate ever. The growing number of planned, ambush murders this year has put added pressure on the homicide squad."
Herald Sun - Melbourne - 12/11/99
More cases of murder, rape, robbery and aggravated burglary are being reported in Victoria...overall crime rate rising by 3.7 per cent in 11 months.
AUSTRALIA:
The Results Are In
The following is a synopsis of an interview conducted by Ginny Simone with Keith Tidswell of Australia's Sporting Shooters Association. The entire interview is available as "Surprise,
Surprise" in the "Archive News" section of:
One year after gun-owners were forced to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed, including semi-automatic .22 rifles and shotguns, a program costing the government over 500
million dollars, the results are in...
A dramatic increase in criminal activity has been experienced. Gun control advocates respond
"Just wait... we'll be safer... you'll see...".
OBSERVABLE FACT, AFTER 12 MONTHS OF DATA:
Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2%
Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6%
Australia-wide, armed-robberies are up 44% (yes, FORTY-FOUR PERCENT)
In the state of Victoria, homicides-with-firearms are up 300%
Figures over the previous 25 years show a steady decrease in homicides-with-firearms (changed dramatically in the past 12 months). Figures over the previous 25 years show a steady decrease in armed-robbery-with-firearms
(changed dramatically in the past 12 months)
There has been a dramatic increase in breakins-and-assaults-of- the-elderly. At the time of the ban, the Prime Minister said "self-defense is not a reason for owning a firearm"
From 1910 to present, homicides in Australia had averaged about 1.8-per-100,000 or lower, a safe society by any standard.
The ban has destroyed Australia's standings in some international sport shooting competitions. The membership of the Australian Sports Shooting Association has risen to 112,000, a 200%
increase, in response to the ban and as an attempt to organize against further controls, which are expected.
Australian politicians are on the spot and at a loss to explain how no improvement in "safety" has been observed after such monumental effort and expense was successfully expended in "ridding society of guns". Their response has been to "wait longer".
------------------------------------------------------------------
"...The best organization you've got there, the biggest organization you've got there is the NRA. We don't have an organization that size. We didn't have an organization that size, and as a consequence, we suffered. And we hope that you don't suffer..."
--Keith Tidswell
Sporting Shooter's Association
http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/aus.html
That is what every gun hating gun grabbing political globalist socialist wants. A one world government. A one world religion and only the globalist goons would be armed. The good news is you do not have the authority to do so. I would love for people who want me to surrender my God given rights to see them surrender their "right to free speech" because everytime they open their mouth to opine, it's always for someone else (majority, America)to surrender our God given rights for them(minority). You want to surrender your rights given to us from our Creator? Be my guest, don't expect me to do the same. I have asked you to surrender nothing, yet you are willing to ban and outlaw my guns without even bothering to ask me and making matters worse, you are demanding it be instantly. Perfect example of what is wrong with people and todays society.
Luke22: 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Luke22:37For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
Luke22:38And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.
mattfivefour
Well-Known Member
But searchin, did Jesus not himself refer to what you refer to in the first five books of the bible. Those books indeed teach an eye for an eye. "If men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she gives birth prematurely, yet there is no injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."—Exodus 21:22-25 "If a man injures his neighbor, just as he has done, so it shall be done to him: fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; just as he has injured a man, so it shall be inflicted on him."— Leviticus 24:18-20 "Thus you shall not show pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot."—Deuteronomy 19:21.
But what did Jesus say? "You have heard that it was said, ‘AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.’ But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two. Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you. You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven...."—Matthew 5:38-45a
Jesus ushered in a new way ... not a way of law, but a way of grace. Your error is in taking rules from the former dispensation and trying to bring it into this present dispensation. Jesus clearly severed the two.
An while I disagree with the content of most of Thallon's posts and the philosophical and religious position he is coming from, nevertheless in this one regard he is correct: that our response to aggression and injustice toward ourselves is not to fight with guns but with the power of the Holy Sp[irit and the love of Christ. Now notice I said "toward ourselves". In no way are we to stand by and watch the helpless victimized. But that said, our attitude and therefore all that we do must spring from a position of love, gentleness, goodness, and mercy ... not just to those who love us but to those who hate us and despitefully use us.
THAT is the clear teaching of the gospel. And the violent talk that pervades some posts on this website must most certainly grieve the Spirit of God ... and drive away those who are looking to see if Christians are REALLY different.
Talk of killing our enemies and fighting to protect what is "ours" (nothing is yours it is all God's and He is quite capable of preserving that which He wishes) simply demonstrates that we are hypocrites who follow our own ideas, not the teaching of Jesus through Whom we claim to have found salvation.
But what did Jesus say? "You have heard that it was said, ‘AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.’ But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two. Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you. You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven...."—Matthew 5:38-45a
Jesus ushered in a new way ... not a way of law, but a way of grace. Your error is in taking rules from the former dispensation and trying to bring it into this present dispensation. Jesus clearly severed the two.
An while I disagree with the content of most of Thallon's posts and the philosophical and religious position he is coming from, nevertheless in this one regard he is correct: that our response to aggression and injustice toward ourselves is not to fight with guns but with the power of the Holy Sp[irit and the love of Christ. Now notice I said "toward ourselves". In no way are we to stand by and watch the helpless victimized. But that said, our attitude and therefore all that we do must spring from a position of love, gentleness, goodness, and mercy ... not just to those who love us but to those who hate us and despitefully use us.
THAT is the clear teaching of the gospel. And the violent talk that pervades some posts on this website must most certainly grieve the Spirit of God ... and drive away those who are looking to see if Christians are REALLY different.
Talk of killing our enemies and fighting to protect what is "ours" (nothing is yours it is all God's and He is quite capable of preserving that which He wishes) simply demonstrates that we are hypocrites who follow our own ideas, not the teaching of Jesus through Whom we claim to have found salvation.
:iagree:
Also, Jesus himself says in Matthew 26:52: "Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. " (emphasis mine) As Matt said, we don't stand by and let the helpless be victimized, but we CANNOT make our way "the way of the sword."
Also, Jesus himself says in Matthew 26:52: "Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. " (emphasis mine) As Matt said, we don't stand by and let the helpless be victimized, but we CANNOT make our way "the way of the sword."
searchin
Well-Known Member
I apologize. I'm sorry for posting in a hasty manner and Matt you and Robert are correct.
It just tears my guts out watching the world loose its marbles the way it currently doing so: The blind leading the blind.
I'm sorry.
I'll shut up and not post & just sit back watch the last of mankind unfold, fall to pieces, as it goes to hell in a handbasket. I pray for The Lord Christ Jesus to return soon and for the Rapture to happen as soon as possible. I pray for the Will of God be done according to His time, plan & His Glory. Heavenly Father, I pray that as many lost souls be saved as it be to Your Will. Lord i pray Your Holy Word be preached unto all the nations soon. In Jesus' Name. Amen
God Bless
It just tears my guts out watching the world loose its marbles the way it currently doing so: The blind leading the blind.
I'm sorry.
I'll shut up and not post & just sit back watch the last of mankind unfold, fall to pieces, as it goes to hell in a handbasket. I pray for The Lord Christ Jesus to return soon and for the Rapture to happen as soon as possible. I pray for the Will of God be done according to His time, plan & His Glory. Heavenly Father, I pray that as many lost souls be saved as it be to Your Will. Lord i pray Your Holy Word be preached unto all the nations soon. In Jesus' Name. Amen
God Bless
pistache
..the flower fades, but His Word stands forever..
It's human nature to want to have control. When we see something we don't like, we want to change it. But we are told to give God the control, and to trust Him to make all things work for good (Romans 8v28). We must allow Him to refine us, to be more like Christ -- holding onto what is good, and abstaining from everything evil (2 Thess 5v22-23). We are new creatures in Christ, learning to develop the fruit of the spirit -- love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. (Galatians 5v22-23) Above all we must hold to that. Don't focus on the temporal. Cast off fear, anger and doubt. Don't cling to your civil rights over the commandments of the Bible. Trust your Heavenly Father. Cling to Jesus, preach Him, and Him crucified, and pray in love for your family, your city, your country, this world.
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