Great Cloud of Witnesses

endofdays

endofdays

Well-Known Member
what does it mean when it says in Hebrews about
Great Cloud of Witnesses what does the Cloud bit mean what exactly is the Great Cloud of Witnesses

and do you think the cloud part could be any reference to the rapture? whats do you think?
 
antitox

antitox

Well-Known Member
Those who have gone before us are watching and they are eagerly waiting for us. They enter into our works. It's a great unifying thing that is going on, What an experience this is going to be.
 
mattfivefour

mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
I do not think that we should make too much of the use of the word "cloud" on its own merits. After all, ancient secular texts often use the word "cloud" to refer to a mass or throng of people. As Dr. Kenneth Wuest, points out, "The use of 'cloud' for a mass of living beings is familiar in poetry. Homer speaks of 'a cloud of footmen, a cloud of Trojans.' Themistocles, addressing the Athenians, says of the host of Xerxes, 'we have had the fortune to save both ourselves and Greece by repelling so great a cloud of men'" (Word Studies, p. 212). Far more isgnificance should be placed on the word "witnesses" (martus in the Greek, from which we get our word "martyr".)

Anewcreationinjesus said:
I reckon if you look back at the previous chapter, chapter 11 talks about the OT "Hall of fame" re faith...then chapter 12 opens with "therefore" which seems to carry on from chapter 11. So my guess would be it refers to the OT people in the previous chapter....
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Yes, that is quite possible. And I am going to give you a link to a scholarly discussion of that verse that will support and expand upon your comments. But first, may I suggest that it could also refer to something most of us do not consider, for most of us are looking at a mystical spiritual connection? After all, we have, as you point out, just been hearing of those who preceded us in the faith. But it occurs to me that a possibility might also be the inhabitants of the world around us.

Think about it for a second. The verse reads: "Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us..." Just as did the faithful saints of the preceding chapter who lived their lives as witnesses of God before the world in which they lived, we too must live our lives as faithful witnesses of God before the world in which we live. You and I are surrounded by literally billions of witnesses who (those who can see us) witness our lives. Our witness for Christ is not merely in what we say, for words are cheap. Our very lives should give witness to what we proclaim. If Christ changes lives, if Christ is Lord, if Christ is real and His resurrection a fact, if God makes those who believe in Him through His Son Jesus new creations, then should our lives not give evidence of that fact? Since we—like the heroes of the faith who have gone before us—are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, should we not then lay aside everything that hinders our running the race God has set before us and cast off the sin nature that so easily trips us up, running our race with endurance ... so as to be faithful witnesses to the truth of the Gospel? Only in this way can we be fruitful servants of God in the building of His eternal Kingdom. Therefore, I suggest that this (I admit novel) interpretation is worthy of consideration.

But for a traditional interpretation, I highly recommend this article. It is also a great exhortation to us to live our lives in a manner worthy of our profession.
 
Almost Heaven

Almost Heaven

Well-Known Member
Very simply it means to study your Bible. The great cloud of witnesses is the wealth of individuals and groups of individuals lives we have been given to learn from. Good and bad examples can both be learned from. Some to emulate, some to steer clear of.

Adrian I hope you don't mind me adding the non scholarly version.
 
Sowen

Sowen

Well-Known Member
mattfivefour said:
I do not think that we should make too much of the use of the word "cloud" on its own merits. After all, ancient secular texts often use the word "cloud" to refer to a mass or throng of people. As Dr. Kenneth Wuest, points out, "The use of 'cloud' for a mass of living beings is familiar in poetry. Homer speaks of 'a cloud of footmen, a cloud of Trojans.' Themistocles, addressing the Athenians, says of the host of Xerxes, 'we have had the fortune to save both ourselves and Greece by repelling so great a cloud of men'" (Word Studies, p. 212). Far more isgnificance should be placed on the word "witnesses" (martus in the Greek, from which we get our word "martyr".)



Yes, that is quite possible. And I am going to give you a link to a scholarly discussion of that verse that will support and expand upon your comments. But first, may I suggest that it could also refer to something most of us do not consider, for most of us are looking at a mystical spiritual connection? After all, we have, as you point out, just been hearing of those who preceded us in the faith. But it occurs to me that a possibility might also be the inhabitants of the world around us.

Think about it for a second. The verse reads: "Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us..." Just as did the faithful saints of the preceding chapter who lived their lives as witnesses of God before the world in which they lived, we too must live our lives as faithful witnesses of God before the world in which we live. You and I are surrounded by literally billions of witnesses who (those who can see us) witness our lives. Our witness for Christ is not merely in what we say, for words are cheap. Our very lives should give witness to what we proclaim. If Christ changes lives, if Christ is Lord, if Christ is real and His resurrection a fact, if God makes those who believe in Him through His Son Jesus new creations, then should our lives not give evidence of that fact? Since we—like the heroes of the faith who have gone before us—are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, should we not then lay aside everything that hinders our running the race God has set before us and cast off the sin nature that so easily trips us up, running our race with endurance ... so as to be faithful witnesses to the truth of the Gospel? Only in this way can we be fruitful servants of God in the building of His eternal Kingdom. Therefore, I suggest that this (I admit novel) interpretation is worthy of consideration.

But for a traditional interpretation, I highly recommend this article. It is also a great exhortation to us to live our lives in a manner worthy of our profession.
Click to expand...
That's a great perspective and one I hadn't heard of or considered, so thanks for the edification.
 
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